JAIL: Mow your lawn or go there

[broken_legs]

THIS is the world you live in.




http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/oddnews/woman-goes-to-jail-for-not-mowing-lawn-182126275.html

Last week, Judge Terry Vann handed down a five-day jail sentence to Holloway for refusing to comply with the city ordinances regarding yard maintenance, specifically the lack thereof. Holloway feels this was all just too much, saying, "It's not right. Why would you put me in jail with child molesters and people who've done real crimes, because I haven't maintained my yard."

...


The saga began last summer, when Holloway was sent a citation for her overgrown grass and shrubbery. Holloway, who works a full-time job and has two children living at home, a husband in school, and one family vehicle, admits the yard needed some attention but that it just wasn't feasible to do the work.
...


The judge admitted Holloway is not a criminal, and that this is not a criminal case — but she was still sentenced to jail. Holloway turned herself in Tuesday evening and served her six hours.

[Tik-Tok]

She has a house, food, a husband in school... I'd say she's doing pretty well in life in the world I live in.

Unless you mean a more localized "world" in which case, I don't live in Tennessee, so I don't give a shit.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by broken_legs
THIS is the world you live in.




How do you propose these issues are dealt with? Clearly the threat of a fine or some other punishment doesn't seem to hold sway with her, so what do you do?

Our bylaws are the same - you ignore the fine, you get arrested after a warrant is issued, and you may or may not have a fine waiting at the end of it, or sometimes you may go to jail for a day or two. Sometimes with issues there is good public policy behind using jail as a punishment and deterrent, such as driving without insurance, you can go to jail for 45 days. Straight. No intermittent bullshit weekend sentence crap.

Is that a problem?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[BavarianBeast]

I spent time in jail in the states for something lesser than that.

Fuck the US.

[blitz]

"As far as Karen Holloway, she's enlisted an army of friends and family to help keep her lawn shipshape."

Seems like the jail time got her ass in gear, which was the point :dunno:

[FraserB]

This is the case of a lazy moron continuing to do something she knew was wrong despite knowing the consequences. And it's happened before this as well for the same thing.

And it was 6 hours in jail.

[BavarianBeast]

Actually, according to the courts I didn't break the law. Spent 4 days and got bailed out, charges were thrown away 2 weeks later.

:poosie:

[Robin Goodfellow]

Edit: Wrong thread. Whoops.

[n1zm0]

She should just pave the entire lawn then she you won't have that problem ever again :poosie:


Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow



We need to stop letting these people into Canada.

Bomb ISIS!! Waterboard Osiris!!

:rofl: wrong thread mang

[cherpintow]

I agree with this, and it's not going to happen if you let it grow out just once, there will be many warnings prior to something like this happening.

Whatever happened to being accountable? Not everything is a problem with authorities, it's a problem with being a cunt.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by phil98z24


How do you propose these issues are dealt with? Clearly the threat of a fine or some other punishment doesn't seem to hold sway with her, so what do you do?

Our bylaws are the same - you ignore the fine, you get arrested after a warrant is issued, and you may or may not have a fine waiting at the end of it, or sometimes you may go to jail for a day or two. Sometimes with issues there is good public policy behind using jail as a punishment and deterrent, such as driving without insurance, you can go to jail for 45 days. Straight. No intermittent bullshit weekend sentence crap.

Is that a problem?

I'll give you this:

1.) I don't want to live on a street with ugly lawns. Its my personal choice.

2.) If I did live on a street with a nasty lawn, I'll still wake up in the morning, the world will still be turning, and I still have a choice to offer help to my neighbour, pack up and leave to a better neighbourhood, or do nothing and get over it.

3.) It's a problem when a busy body bureaucrat can make arbitrary rules that put a human being in jail because they don't like the way their lawn looks.

I would much rather live in a world where people can do as they please on what is supposedly their own property.

Rgs
B


Originally posted by cherpintow

Whatever happened to being accountable? Not everything is a problem with authorities, it's a problem with being a cunt.

What ever happened to minding your own business? Why is it the citys concern if someone doesn't mow their lawn?

[Seth1968]

She doesn't have the time to mow the lawn? That lawn pictured would take less than an hour a week to look half decent.

I wonder how many hours a week her and her husband watch tv?

[Seth1968]

There is also the issue of adjacent property value.

Although, it's the US, so in most places that doesn't matter anyway:)

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by cherpintow
I agree with this, and it's not going to happen if you let it grow out just once, there will be many warnings prior to something like this happening.

Whatever happened to being accountable? Not everything is a problem with authorities, it's a problem with being a cunt.

:werd:

Neither her nor her husband could find an hour a week to maintain their property because they have two kids? Oh the humanity.

Lazy fucks. Husband must feel pretty manly now that his wife is going to jail because he was lazy.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by broken_legs




What ever happened to minding your own business? Why is it the citys concern if someone doesn't mow their lawn?

When your yard and lack of care starts to hurt the value of the homes around and could pose a safety hazard, then it becomes other people's business.

You're full of it if you say you'd never have a problem with a neighbor who has a shitty looking place or parts cars out on their lawn or does other stuff that affects your property.

[cherpintow]

Originally posted by broken_legs


What ever happened to minding your own business? Why is it the citys concern if someone doesn't mow their lawn?

Because a house also happens to be a part of a community where one person's actions can have an impact on others around them. I don't want the house next to mine looking like shit because the owner is too lazy to perform basic (I would even say mandatory) maintenance to their property.

[Seth1968]

Can you imagine what the INSIDE of the house looks like?

[Inzane]

I want to see dog owner's who leave their dog's shit everywhere in the neighbourhood thrown in jail, if only for a day or two. Threat of a fine isn't enough motivation in that case either.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by broken_legs


I'll give you this:

1.) I don't want to live on a street with ugly lawns. Its my personal choice.

2.) If I did live on a street with a nasty lawn, I'll still wake up in the morning, the world will still be turning, and I still have a choice to offer help to my neighbour, pack up and leave to a better neighbourhood, or do nothing and get over it.

3.) It's a problem when a busy body bureaucrat can make arbitrary rules that put a human being in jail because they don't like the way their lawn looks.

I would much rather live in a world where people can do as they please on what is supposedly their own property.

Rgs
B



What ever happened to minding your own business? Why is it the citys concern if someone doesn't mow their lawn?

So as a society, we should just throw our arms in the air and say a collective "Jesus take the wheel!"? That's interesting.

Good thing we live in such a world where the collective agrees, by majority, that there are rules to be followed and acceptable behaviours that contribute to our ability to get along, have nice communities, and on and on. It may not matter to you, but to the rest of us it sure does.

[Dave P]

Oh great, now there is going to be an ammo shortage

[jwslam]

Originally posted by BavarianBeast
Actually, according to the courts I didn't break the law. Spent 4 days and got bailed out, charges were thrown away 2 weeks later.

:poosie:
Did you sue for lost time?

[rage2]

If anything, these city ordinances are a walk in the park compared to HOA rules, which also can get you thrown in jail.

http://theweek.com/article/index/104150/top-7-insane-homeowners-association-rules

Hilarious stuff.

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by broken_legs


I'll give you this:

1.) I don't want to live on a street with ugly lawns. Its my personal choice.

2.) If I did live on a street with a nasty lawn, I'll still wake up in the morning, the world will still be turning, and I still have a choice to offer help to my neighbour, pack up and leave to a better neighbourhood, or do nothing and get over it.

3.) It's a problem when a busy body bureaucrat can make arbitrary rules that put a human being in jail because they don't like the way their lawn looks.

I would much rather live in a world where people can do as they please on what is supposedly their own property.

Rgs
B



What ever happened to minding your own business? Why is it the citys concern if someone doesn't mow their lawn?

At what point can I give a shit about a neigbhour's yard?

When the overgrown weeds start to populate into my yard?

When the accumulation of junk in the yard start to attract vermin and infest my yard?

[asd913]

Reasonable lawn maintenance isn't the city's concern. But a lawn that is not maintained whatsoever is absolutely the city's concern. The Broken Window Theory shows that there is a correlation between urban disorder/vandalism and crime. See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

Enforcement of bylaws against poorly maintained lawns has long term impacts on your life. In the end, it can help you keep your family safe and improve your property value.

[jacky4566]

Now I am not arguing the laws themselves but in Germany many lawns are not mowed ever. Germans like the idea of overgrown gardens. It show life. Not army style clean cut lawns all the time. So overgrown gardens are highly valued because they show the heritage of the home.



Also as a side note its illegal to cut your lawn on Sunday in Switzerland because its too noisy.

[Modelexis]

Broken comes back for two weeks and everyone wants to take a piece out of him, give the guy a break.

Condo boards don't throw you in jail for having a messy yard, yet a condo board is just as effective as the state (if not more effective) and they don't have the power to put anyone in jail.

The difference is you sign a physical contract with a condo board that you agree to various regulations and you agree to consequences that are clearly laid out and cannot change without a new contract being agreed to. Also you have recourse if you disagree with a ruling from a condo board.

That's why this is scummy to any liberty minded person to throw people in jail for laws that are created at whim without any formal contracts with land owners.

My issue with this is there is no formal contract where the land owner has agreed to keep a lawn in a specific condition and for this reason it's not exactly fair to punish someone based on whimsical laws that change any given day.

Adults sign and agree to contracts and are responsible for those contracts. When you don't treat people as adults and invent laws that change all the time you can expect to have issues from time to time. The solution is to set up a contract for home owners that is signed and agreed to with specific rules and consequences that are fully agreed to and which cannot change without both parties agreement.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Modelexis
That's why this is scummy to any liberty minded person to throw people in jail for laws that are created at whim without any formal contracts with land owners.

My issue with this is there is no formal contract where the land owner has agreed to keep a lawn in a specific condition and for this reason it's not exactly fair to punish someone based on whimsical laws that change any given day.

Adults sign and agree to contracts and are responsible for those contracts. When you don't treat people as adults and invent laws that change all the time you can expect to have issues from time to time. The solution is to set up a contract for home owners that is signed and agreed to with specific rules and consequences that are fully agreed to and which cannot change without both parties agreement.

So... Free man on the land eh? Show me where you signed any contract with the federal government or provincial government that you would obey their laws. Right... Yeah your idea is hair brained and hilariously impractical.

[A790]

I think jail was as bit much for that. Don't you think a fine would have done the job? If not the first one, but the fines that followed suit?

[rage2]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Condo boards don't throw you in jail for having a messy yard, yet a condo board is just as effective as the state (if not more effective) and they don't have the power to put anyone in jail.
You're wrong, at least in the USA. It goes to court, court orders you to comply. Don't do it? You'll get charged with contempt, and get thrown in jail.

http://jonathanturley.org/2008/10/12/putting-the-prude-back-into-prudente-florida-man-jailed-for-failure-to-sod-lawn/

[speedog]

A whole bunch of concrete would've effectively taken care of any grass problem, just saying.

[asd913]

The original article is so one-sided. Check out this article which includes the perspective of city.

http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/2014/10/15/lenoir-city-woman-jailed-for-6-hours-over-dirty-yard/17322415/#

1.) They've owned the home since 2000 as a fixer upper. They live in an apartment and don't live in it.
2.) They have been cited in court multiple times over 10 -12 years! They claimed in the original article that it all started last summer.
3.) Volunteers in the community cleaned it up, not them. That is what you see in recent photos.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Broken comes back for two weeks and everyone wants to take a piece out of him, give the guy a break.

Condo boards don't throw you in jail for having a messy yard, yet a condo board is just as effective as the state (if not more effective) and they don't have the power to put anyone in jail.

The difference is you sign a physical contract with a condo board that you agree to various regulations and you agree to consequences that are clearly laid out and cannot change without a new contract being agreed to. Also you have recourse if you disagree with a ruling from a condo board.

That's why this is scummy to any liberty minded person to throw people in jail for laws that are created at whim without any formal contracts with land owners.

My issue with this is there is no formal contract where the land owner has agreed to keep a lawn in a specific condition and for this reason it's not exactly fair to punish someone based on whimsical laws that change any given day.

Adults sign and agree to contracts and are responsible for those contracts. When you don't treat people as adults and invent laws that change all the time you can expect to have issues from time to time. The solution is to set up a contract for home owners that is signed and agreed to with specific rules and consequences that are fully agreed to and which cannot change without both parties agreement.

Didn't that Freeman nutbar try to say this kind of thing? That since he didn't sign a contract, laws didn't apply to him or some nonsense?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by A790
I think jail was as bit much for that. Don't you think a fine would have done the job? If not the first one, but the fines that followed suit?

IMO, no person should be incarcerated unless they exhibit a threat to all others.

With that said, what else do you with the neighbor that has made your home worthless?

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by FraserB


When your yard and lack of care starts to hurt the value of the homes around and could pose a safety hazard, then it becomes other people's business.

You're full of it if you say you'd never have a problem with a neighbor who has a shitty looking place or parts cars out on their lawn or does other stuff that affects your property.

I actually stated clearly I DONT want to live on a street with shitty lawns. :confused: Not sure why you would then equate what I said with the exact opposite meaning.

But straight up, you seem to be saying that:
"OTHER PEOPLE are responsible for MY property value"

IMHO, that statement is amazing.

Rgs,
B


Originally posted by cherpintow


...a house also happens to be a part of a community where one person's actions can have an impact on others around them. I don't want the house next to mine looking like shit because the owner is too lazy to perform basic (I would even say mandatory) maintenance to their property.

I absolutely 100% agree with you. Shitty lawns are an eyesore. I've had more bad neighbours than I can shake a stick at. I wish everyone maintained their property in a way that was to my liking, and at a minimum complimented the neighbourhood.

Whats your point?

Rgs,
B


Originally posted by phil98z24


So as a society, we should just throw our arms in the air and say a collective "Jesus take the wheel!"? That's interesting.


Chill, Phil. Were talking about cutting grass, not murdering babies. I'm sure as a police officer, your time would be better utilized investigating crimes and maintaining the peace than arresting lawn mowing violators, wouldn't you agree?


Originally posted by phil98z24

Good thing we live in such a world where the collective agrees, by majority, that there are rules to be followed and acceptable behaviours that contribute to our ability to get along, have nice communities, and on and on. It may not matter to you, but to the rest of us it sure does.

Respectfully Phil, it sounds like the world you live in is an episode of Star Trek or perhaps the Soviet Union. I definitely do not live in that world.

In my world 51% of the population has no right to steal from and imprison the other 49% because of how they keep their lawn. In my world the 49% are protected from the 51% "collective" by property rights, the rule of law, and common sense. Lastly, in my world, the majority of people are genuinely nice, tend to flock together and look after each other, and don't need rules and laws to force them to be that way.

Respectfully,
B


Originally posted by Nitro5


At what point can I give a shit about a neigbhour's yard?

When the overgrown weeds start to populate into my yard?

When the accumulation of junk in the yard start to attract vermin and infest my yard?

That's up to you. Personally, I only give a shit about my neighbours yard when I'm standing on it. However, I will concede that I'd definitely be concerned if I lived in a place with crappy lawns. If you're as concerned as me, you can try this:
Move, Get over It, Offer to Help offending neighbour with bad lawn

BTW, Sounds like you live in a really bad neighbourhood. I suggest you move somewhere else. As a last result you could attempt to imprison your neighbours, that seemed to work in the case being discussed.

Rgs,
B


Originally posted by jacky4566
Now I am not arguing the laws themselves but in Germany many lawns are not mowed ever. Germans like the idea of overgrown gardens. It show life. Not army style clean cut lawns all the time. So overgrown gardens are highly valued because they show the heritage of the home.

Also as a side note its illegal to cut your lawn on Sunday in Switzerland because its too noisy.

Are you OK, man? To me, you sound like a normal human being. There must be something wrong with you.


:cry:

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Modelexis


...

Condo boards don't throw you in jail for having a messy yard, yet a condo board is just as effective as the state (if not more effective) and they don't have the power to put anyone in jail.

The difference is you sign a physical contract with a condo board that you agree to various regulations and you agree to consequences that are clearly laid out and cannot change without a new contract being agreed to. Also you have recourse if you disagree with a ruling from a condo board.

That's why this is scummy to any liberty minded person to throw people in jail for laws that are created at whim without any formal contracts with land owners.



Yes. What he said.:clap:

Plus the obvious - Someone went to jail for not mowing their lawn! It's makes me sad for the human race that people are actually defending this. :cry:

[asd913]

No, they went to jail for failing to comply to numerous court citations. Get over it.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by asd913
No, they went to jail for failing to comply to numerous court citations. Get over it.

...resulting from not mowing their lawn. Fine them. Absolutely. But revoke their freedom because their lawn is ugly? Come on.

[syscal]

How did I miss out on this broken legs character in previous years? The absence of Arash in these replies makes me think this is him...

[googe]

WTF? People are actually rationalizing imprisonment for tall grass?

Is this real life?

[syscal]

Originally posted by googe
WTF? People take the entire story into account?

I'd have no argument if I did that!?

You're making yourself look stupid, so I fixed it for you.

Unkempt lawn isn't why they went to jail.

[cherpintow]

Originally posted by broken_legs

I absolutely 100% agree with you. Shitty lawns are an eyesore. I've had more bad neighbours than I can shake a stick at. I wish everyone maintained their property in a way that was to my liking, and at a minimum complimented the neighbourhood.

Whats your point?

Rgs,
B



What's my point? You said this:

Originally posted by broken_legs

What ever happened to minding your own business? Why is it the citys concern if someone doesn't mow their lawn?

And I responded with what should be the obvious, that it is other people's business when you share a street with them. What don't you get?

[FraserB]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


...resulting from not mowing their lawn. Fine them. Absolutely. But revoke their freedom because their lawn is ugly? Come on.

She didn't go to jail for having an ugly lawn. She went to jail for refusing to comply with the court. And lol at her complaint of not being read her rights or being told she could retain counsel, someone should have told her it wasn't a criminal matter.

[rage2]

To be fair, if you read just the yahoo article, it sounds like she just went to jail for not mowing her lawn. But that's yahoo, it's pure click baiting, and it's why I use it for my home page and read all their crap. :rofl: