Glenmore Audi = Idiots

[Sugarphreak]

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[Graham_A_M]

Wow, there is people out there that dont even start the lug nut by hand? Fuck.... wow.... most likely done by some retarded fresh-out-of-highschool tire jocky, even then, you'd earnestly expect them to know this. :nut: :nut:

Funny, the laziness and stupidity of one individual will cost the dealership so much in labor and repairs to replace the lugs on that hub. Hopefully he loses his job over that....

are the other hubs okay? or just the one thats screwed up?

[lilmira]

vorsprung durch dimwit

[Sugarphreak]

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[The_Rural_Juror]

Sorry to hear about that. Big reason why I don't trust most places to change my tires.

[theedge111]

It's fucking scary when they screw up something so simple.

[M.alex]

Is it safe to re-tap the threaded lug holes?

[Sugarphreak]

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[relyt92]

You shouldn't have to be doing this all yourself, dealership should be doing it on their dime and time

[Sugarphreak]

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[J.M.]

Originally posted by relyt92
You shouldn't have to be doing this all yourself, dealership should be doing it on their dime and time

They can't even mount wheels back on properly lol

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
So 13 of the studs are damaged enough I will have to use a die to straight them out. Most of them just have the first 1 or 2 threads damaged, but at least 2 are pretty badly cross threaded and I don't think I can fix it. I will stop by Urban at some point to see if they can help me get a replacement.

For the holes, I checked each one with one of my undamaged winter studs (I have different winter and summer studs that are specific to the wheel). Most of the holes on the passenger front and driver rear were ok, but the driver front and passenger rear needed to have most of the holes re-tapped.

As for torque specs... it seems like nothing was done properly. Audi specs are 105ft-lbs, and only maybe 2 out of 5 bolts on each wheel were even above that.

I don't know to be honest, although the studs won't go back in otherwise.

I will probably recheck the torque specs on the wheels in a week or so to ensure they are not coming loose.

I dont know if I'd trust a re-tapped hole to be torqued to 105ft pds. The metal threads will be structurally weak after all these reworks, and thats a fair bit of torque on something that'll see a lot of stress from driving.
At least thats for the severely cross threaded ones, the ones where you only have to tap the first few threads should be fine.
I just hope you're not having to deal with more then one cross threaded hole per hub, as in two severely weak bolt holes. With two, you're really asking for trouble. Each hub that has two severely damaged threads will need replacing.

In the event you had to do this entirely on your own dollar, Id suggest using whats called Helicoils (there are lots of other variants by other names), their designed for rethreading damaged holes, but thats as a last resort. Obviously they should be replacing the hubs for you since it was entirely their own fault for damaging them to begin with.

Update this thread with what happens with Audi, if for whatever reason they cant or wont fix it, I'll walk you through how to buy, prep and install Helicoils. Thats quite a bitch though, and wont be as structurally sound as a properly threaded hole....

EDIT: I also have a tap & dye set at my house, so let me know if you need a hand with that at all.

[Rat Fink]

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[Canucks3322]

Noted...how is the other Audi dealership in town as I am in the North anyways?

[Canucks3322]

Don't forget....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/owners-outraged-after-audi-mechanic-takes-car-home-for-weekend-1.2734161

[Sugarphreak]

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[JustinMCS]

Why are the simplest things the most stressful and the hardest to get done? I wonder this on a lot of things. People are just ridiculous.

[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
So in light of this I pulled my dash cam video:

Two separate test drives; on the first one the car is driven far away and stops in a parking lot somewhere... then sounds of stuff getting banged around starts happening for like 5 minutes, is is really weird. On the second one suddenly the music gets cranked until it starts blaring and frapping out the the speakers


I wouldn't call the second drive a test drive at all, just a joy ride for some idiot that was bored. Any time Im taking any vehicle for a "test" drive, its to listen for any sounds or anything of that sort that may be abnormal. Kind of hard to do that when the music is just cranked to the point of damaging the speakers.
Id save the video's to your PB account and email them the links so they can see the videos for themselves as to what their well trained, respectable techs are doing when the bosses aren't around.

[Redlined_8000]

Wow that's retarded. Take the car back to them Monday show then the damage and show them the dash cam. Some dealerships are so bad.... let us know how you make out.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[Graham_A_M]

I wouldn't have bothered fixing them until you've heard back from Audi, after you've fixed them yourself they'll likely just apologize, give the guy a reprimand and send you on your way. Perhaps after they've given you replacement studs for them, but since the hubs are essentially "functional" then its a lot of parts and labor off their back, and a lot less reason for them to properly replace the hubs as they should.

Those studs are in rough shape, but likely fixable and usable as spares if you need them, but I would definitely replace them if you can. Getting the tap properly started on the mashed end will prove tricky, as the tap may try to start all new threads if not properly seated... frick. If the mashed end was further down the threads towards the head, it would be easy, but thats obviously not the case.

Just retarded..... obviously lifting the tires and trying to start the stud into the hole is too hard, so just force it in right after the thread starts to bite by using an impact, yeah thats always a brilliant idea. :banghead:

[roll_over]

It sounded like he started singing along

[Hallowed_point]

Sugarphreak..I live right beside glen more Audi..those idiots are always ripping around in the parking lots and up and down Richard way. I'm not surprised to see that video of them blasting your speakers out. Hope you can get some resolution from them.

[danno]

Glad I always go to tunedub he stands behind his work. It's to bad this happened but I'm not surprised. You don't have to get your oil changes and stuff done there for warranty.

[Adrenaline101]

I would suggest forcing them to do a replacement of the hubs that have needed to be retapped. I know when I was at an automotive shop. If we screwed up nuts/ studs by accident that was on us to fix.

tapping them again will likely make for some thinner threads that might not hold torque. Maybe its a tiny bit paranoid but I would rather be safe than sorry in the long run.

Helicoils would work but not something YOU should have to do after their work.

[ASG99]

I had my b8 s4 lined up and raced against a b7 s4 at glenmore Audi. Only reason I discovered what happened was by sheer luck, my brother in law was in the courtesy car that was dropping him off at the dealership as this was happening. After a few denials they apologized and I got a $100 gift card for the redwater grill from glenmore Audi. I was also to get an apology from the service manager directly, 2 years on I still haven't heard from him. Lol. I was very polite and passive with them( that's on me) , I should of raised hell, so my advice give'em hell. Good luck.

[dubhead]

Wow that must have been loud, I can blast pretty bass heavy music in my Audi without the slightest bit of distortion what a tool. Glad I bought mine in Edmonton but it's probably long overdue for me to get a dash cam.

[zieg]

As a guy who was considering an A4 from there, this is.. discouraging. :(

[msommers]

This is why I don't mind doing the simple things like fluid changes and tire rotations/change-overs. It's the intro jobs that are given to the people that usually don't give a shit. The more complicated jobs are typically given to the experienced guys that have been there for awhile, which (hopefully) indicates they care a little more than the high school kids.

Brutal situation anyways. Report back how things go over at the dealer.

[snowcat]

To be fair - the mic sounds like it's peaking.

I agree with a previous comment - Looks like that was over torqued not cross threaded. I'm no expert, however. Shitty situation and I hope they fix it for you.

[soupey]

I would have just talked to them about it. They've always been very forgiving with me and this whole thing isn't something that shouldn't fall under wear and tear...

[Sugarphreak]

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[Sugarphreak]

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[killramos]

Wow I love Audi's product but this kind of service would ruin it all for me...

Arrogance is what it is.

[jabjab]

I had an incident at Royal Oak Audi where I took a car in for an inspection and after purchasing the car based on it I found out a few things were obviously missed when some things went wrong in the car right away.

I spoke with the service manager though and he agreed to look at the problem free of charge and even fixed it. So in the end Royal Oak Audi was pretty good and correcting the issue where as most other dealerships would say you're f out of luck.

[lilmira]

Perhaps the loss of hearing explains the inability to follow verbal instruction?

[HiTempguy1]

Man, you are a lot more calm about this than I would be...

At the end of the day, threads are NOT something you want to be dicking with, especially on your $40k+ car. Have them fix it, properly. Document it, and if there are issues further down the road, they have to pony up.

[E46..sTyLez]

I had a dealership put on tires for free before...It was Charlesglen Toyota. My X5 has staggered wheels, and they put the 2 front tires (275's) on the left side (one front, on back) and the 2 rear tires (315's!!) on the right side.

So I had a 315mm tire, on the front passenger side!!...for a day anyway. I had Gary at Urban fix me up as soon as I noticed.

[killramos]

Originally posted by E46..sTyLez
I had a dealership put on tires for free before...It was Charlesglen Toyota. My X5 has staggered wheels, and they put the 2 front tires (275's) on the left side (one front, on back) and the 2 rear tires (315's!!) on the right side.

So I had a 315mm tire, on the front passenger side!!...for a day anyway. I had Gary at Urban fix me up as soon as I noticed.

:nut:

[Sugarphreak]

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[Neil4Speed]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

The mic on the dashcam is pretty quiet normally, even if you blast the music it doesn't sound anything like that... it is usually just a quiet rythem on the video feed. To get it that loud you really would have to crank the volume far beyond something reasonable.

Did you ask them about it? Watching that video made me unreasonably agitated, haha maybe I have some sympathy for speakers or something.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Joe-G]

Couldn't tell you what the actual procedure is, but on some of my previous vehicles it was as easy as sticking my head down there and visually looking at the pad... :/ Im sure its a lot easier when the vehicle is on a hoist?

[Sugarphreak]

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[ercchry]

would they not have rotated your tires while in for service?

[Sugarphreak]

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[ercchry]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
They said not for a 25K service

its funny cause the guide on audi.ca says they do

EDIT: whoops, i was a line off when i read it... the thats the 2011 guide since the newer one wont load for me

EDIT 2: it does say the brake fluid is to be changed every two years regardless of mileage though... thats all i got

[Yuubah]

if it's not documented... it probably wasn't done. dealers don't work for free :dunno: they're not going to remove your wheels for a brake inspection.

but the music blaring is pretty annoying though.

[Sugarphreak]

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[benyl]

Didn't you have some issue last year where you studs were too long and you Audi wouldn't move? Maybe you got the wrong thread.

[Inzane]

Is this that same dealership that took the guy's S4 home for the weekend and the guy called the cops (news story, etc.)?

[Sugarphreak]

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[ercchry]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

Yeah, they don't really spell out the procedure, but from what they are telling me they used mirrors between the spokes.

yeah for the checks tires would stay on i think... but if they flushed the fluid they would probably come off

[benyl]

I had some "aftermarket" studs for the C63 that snapped off at the end of the summer. Had to take the rotors off to get them out. Only on the rear. 96lbs of torque. After that, OEM only.

[Sugarphreak]

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[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I would tend to agree in general, but that leaves me at a loss as to how this stud damage occured

I guess you made a mistake. :dunno:

[Sugarphreak]

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[bignerd]

Are your speakers blown?

[Sugarphreak]

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[Graham_A_M]

Originally posted by benyl
I had some "aftermarket" studs for the C63 that snapped off at the end of the summer. Had to take the rotors off to get them out. Only on the rear. 96lbs of torque. After that, OEM only.
Holy garbage studs batman, jeez, 96 is very low for this diameter of bolt, thats not even grade 3 quality of a bolt for this size....

[Graham_A_M]

^ A lot has to be said about grease on the threads. Frick, Id be here for a month of sundays to really get into it, but basically as a rule of thumb..... whenever grease or anything other then threadlocker is applied, the total amount of torque used has to be reduced by 10% across the board, sometimes more depending on what is used. Dilatation of the threads is quite common otherwise, and yet people dont understand as to why threads mushroom out/crush.

[toastgremlin]

Originally posted by Graham_A_M

Holy garbage studs batman, jeez, 96 is very low for this diameter of bolt, thats not even grade 3 quality of a bolt for this size.... I was talking to one of my coworkers yesterday and he said the torque spec for his C300 was only 70 ft-lb.

Overtorquing with grease and antiseize is a really common thing to have happen. A lot of torque wrenches are also way out of spec in home garages from the owners storing them without resetting them to zero, dropping them or using them as breaker bars.

[Phihalo]

How do you prove that this would be a dealer's fault and not 3rd party or owner? I think they will try to go into that direction and not admitting fault.

[4runneron36s]

A lot of torque wrenches are also way out of spec in home garages from the owners storing them without resetting them to zero, dropping them or using them as breaker bars. [/B]

You should always leave a torque wrench somewhat preloaded, at least that's what the instructions for my PA one says. I can't recall if its a set number or if it is a function of the max torque of the wrench, but I leave mine at 25-30 ft lbs when not in use.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 4runneron36s


You should always leave a torque wrench somewhat preloaded, at least that's what the instructions for my PA one says. I can't recall if its a set number or if it is a function of the max torque of the wrench, but I leave mine at 25-30 ft lbs when not in use.

All click type torque wrenches should be stored at they're lowest setting (as in don't go below that number, as many can keep being adjusted below that) but it shouldn't be left higher than the lowest setting either.

If the range is 20ft-lbs to 100ft-lbs, it should be stored at 20.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Phihalo
How do you prove that this would be a dealer's fault and not 3rd party or owner? I think they will try to go into that direction and not admitting fault.

:werd:

I think you are going to have a bad time getting anything to stick when you change your own tires twice a year and install non-spec lugs...

No way to prove they did anything wrong at all...

That aside the music issue is a huge problem. Audio systems are expensive. I would be making them replace the whole set of speakers as a precaution. Using them that loud is definitely doing damage... At the very least document everything (written apology etc) so that in a year when they start buzzing you can stick it to their forehead.

[Sugarphreak]

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[zieg]

Yeah too bad Royal Oak is owned by the same entity...

[theedge111]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
Yeah too bad Royal Oak is owned by the same entity...

Yeah, but at least Royal Oak has solid management! The service manager is a stand up guy!

[jdmXSI]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


There isn’t really any path forward unless the dealership is willing to work with you. In this case, aside from a brief apology about the guy being a tool in my car (which they didn’t even ask to see the video for), they have made it pretty clear that their position is they didn’t touch the wheels.

My experience with some other dealerships that have caused damage has been that they won’t admit fault even with significant evidence is presented it was caused by them, but will still offer to fix it for free. I don’t really have any problem with that type of approach, I can bite my tongue in blaming them and they get to save face and keep me as a client.

Personally, my own feeling is that in this case they removed the wheels during the service because I can’t find another reasonable explanation for the damage that has occurred... that said, I can’t prove shit and they pretty much know it.

Would a dealership service tech mislead the supervisor to get the off the hook? I’ve definitely run into it at other service shops multiple times, and from the behavior I observed on my dashcam in conjunction with other client vehicle abuse which has been brought to light by the media, I don’t exactly have a lot of faith that I am getting the full story.


Anyway, on the bright side at least I figured this out early on and I can avoid them in the future.

Have you tried contacting the service manager and explaining what happened? Sometimes its not a bad idea to go over the advisors head.

You are right, who really knows about the tech who did the check, maybe he has had cars come back where he broke something on and has had a previous warning about. As mentioned previously, make sure to get a written letter admitting fault to the speaker issue just incase an issue arises in the future.

Good luck!

[triplep]

Any chance your dash cam caught footage? If you had dash cam footage showing that someone had come towards your car with a impact wrench might give you enough evidence?

[Sugarphreak]

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[lasimmon]

I dunno I feel like its just as likely you are to blame for this and you don't want to take the blame?

[Sugarphreak]

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[SOAB]

a technician will write their story on a repair order explaining all the work that was done on the vehicle. once the repair order is closed, they cannot go back and change it after the fact to cover things up. go to the dealer and ask to read the techs story. maybe it's even printed onto your copy of the bill.

mechanics don't do work for free and they wouldn't remove your wheels without a reason to. a simple brake inspection does not require wheels to be removed.

if it was just a simple oil change and brake inspection, there is almost no way they would remove the wheels.

[Sugarphreak]

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[SOAB]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Thanks for the post, it sounds like you have a professional background, so I appreciate the insight

I am just wondering though, how much space is needed between the spokes to do a visual brake inspection? Do you know of any rim styles that might obstruct them from doing a visual inspection?

Also, say in the event they did take them off for whatever reason; if a guy was putting them back on and realized he was cross threaded a bunch of the studs, but just continued to impact them on anyway to save time. Is there any fail safe measures that would prevent this guy from just discreetly omitting that they removed the wheels in the report?

not much space is required to do a quick visual on brake pads so it can be done as long as the car is in the air.

there is nothing stopping the tech from omitting anything like that other than personal integrity. I know most (99%) of the guys where I work would own up to something like that considering the safety aspect of the lugnuts. they may get in shit for it but unless it is a recurring problem, nothing comes from it. they would be in DEEP shit if it wasn't disclosed and the customer had an accident though.

[Sugarphreak]

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[CanmoreOrLess]

Including the two snapped off at a major tire dealer in the city last week, I'm up to three studs in a year. Yet I've changed over rims many, many times and never snapped a stud. Armstrong Method is the only way going forward. I can't trust these monkeys with an airgun. Add in the roundtrip drive to the dealer or tire shop for a changeover and the actual time on a hoist, it comes to nearly three hours. I can do it all in less than twenty minutes in the comfort of my own garage.

I'd call another Audi dealer and see if they remove the wheels for the brake inspection. I'd also be uploading the dash cam video to YouTube, that Audi dealer deserves all the pain he gets going forward.