Engineering firm convicted of breaching provincial building codes

[Cos]

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[lilmira]

I wonder about the details. It's not a no name shop by all means. Allen D Williams died from a plane crash. His son died from another plane crash not too long after. The company was quite devastated at the time as that plane crash killed a few other senior employees as well.

[Cos]

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[themack89]

Originally posted by Cos
'should be fine'

Famous last words

:rofl:

[lilmira]

The director of the Calgary office is also the current president of APEGA, oops! I worked with Jim in one project long time ago. That can't be good for business.

[Fly Fishin']

Youch glad we don't use them.

[lilmira]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Calgary+engineering+firm+found+guilty+building+problems/10349762/story.html

There you go, the Herald has more detail. Sounds like the engineer misjudged the thickness of the existing concrete, didn't do his due diligence to confirm it. I can see it happening.

"What more do you need to know? There is plenty of concrete here. Fucking engineer worry about everything!"

"Oh fuck, you are the engineer! You should know better" :nut:

Lesson of the day, be a prick, don't take no for prisoner!

[ExtraSlow]

Any of you P.Eng's out there, details of this will likely be published in the PEG newsletter.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Hah, I used to work with the president of their condo board - good guy. I'm happy the board wasn't convicted of anything as I can't imagine how you would hold a volunteer board liable for the shoddy work of a hired professional.

[g-m]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Any of you P.Eng's out there, details of this will likely be published in the PEG newsletter. I didn't think anyone actually read that. Mine goes straight from the mailbox to the blue bin

[bjstare]

Originally posted by g-m
I didn't think anyone actually read that. Mine goes straight from the mailbox to the blue bin
Haha :werd:

[lasimmon]

I like reading the discipline committee notes. That's about all my Peg gets used for.

I remember the case of some P eng making an off color joke in a van on the way to site in Fort Mac and some woman complained. Was quite comical actually.

[BavarianBeast]

I've seen some scetchy formwork & bracing design that comes out of some of the large firms.

Often, lots of the formwork and bracing design is pushed to the contractor and if you are not careful in your design, people will die. In fact we had a blowout earlier this year because a form/bracing system failed in ontario and it killed one worker.

I think people don't often realize how crucial propper engineering is when building any structure.

[Joe-G]

"Trust me, I'm an engineer"

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a3/5e/12/a35e1287782a92fc8a081ed6f658375f.jpg

[revelations]

Ah yes, the Engineer debacle.

Im sure the mechanical and EE's loath being grouped the same as civil engineers :rofl:

I recall back in my land surveying days for Enmax getting a drawing from a civil, which called for an underground utility line to pass underneath an existing commercial building driveway and foundation (as opposed to slightly detouring around it and avoiding massive digging costs).

Rocket science prevailed and a change was made quickly after my phone call.

In fact most of the "good" civils at Enmax never wore their rings as they didnt want to be lumped into the same category as some of the others.

[sabad66]

Just got an email from APEGA... apparently the president of APEGA works for Williams Eng. and decided to step down to avoid conflict of interest. Interesting

[lilmira]

Originally posted by lilmira
The director of the Calgary office is also the current president of APEGA, oops! I worked with Jim in one project long time ago. That can't be good for business.



Originally posted by sabad66
Just got an email from APEGA... apparently the president of APEGA works for Williams Eng. and decided to step down to avoid conflict of interest. Interesting


Not a bad move, I don't think he has anything to do with it but that's a shitty position to be in.

[ExtraSlow]

Just for disclosure: here's the text of the email from APEGA:

Originally posted by APEGA
This email is to advise:

that effective November 4, 2014, APEGA Council has accepted the resignation of Dr. Jim Gilliland, P.Eng.
that APEGA President-Elect Connie Parenteau, P.Eng., will not become President until April 2015 but has assumed the responsibilities of the president effective immediately

Former President Gilliland is Williams Engineering Canada Inc.’s Regional Director, Southern Alberta. Williams Engineering Canada Inc. was named in a recent provincial court ruling regarding breaches of the Alberta Building Code at the Rocky Mountain Court building parkade.

“Maintaining the integrity of APEGA as a self-regulating entity is critical to maintaining our social licence. I have tremendous faith in the network of highly dedicated volunteers and employees that discharge the Association’s regulatory functions on a daily basis. I believe that by stepping down, APEGA’s integrity can’t be questioned as they move forward,” said Dr. Gilliland.

“It’s been a remarkable privilege to serve APEGA and all Albertans during my terms as councillor, president-elect and president,” he added.

We understand that the public is quite appropriately concerned about issues of public safety and well-being. As you know, the public interest is of paramount concern to APEGA and its Members.

Please note that under The Engineering and Geoscience Professions Act, APEGA does not disclose whether an Association investigation is or is not underway. Nor do we disclose the results of any investigative or disciplinary proceedings to the public until they are concluded.

Should APEGA deem that it is appropriate to conduct any type of regulatory review into the circumstances surrounding the Provincial Court decision, the disclosure of any findings will be governed by the appropriate statutory committee that has the authority to make that decision.

[Env-Consultant]

Originally posted by lasimmon
I like reading the discipline committee notes. That's about all my Peg gets used for.

I remember the case of some P eng making an off color joke in a van on the way to site in Fort Mac and some woman complained. Was quite comical actually.

I was flipping through my fiancee's PEG magazine about a year ago and loved the discipline section. I think the first one I read was related to some bonehead insider trading.

Anyways - I have read every single one now haha

http://www.apega.ca/Members/Publications/pegmagonline.html After you click on a month/year, you can click on Read the PDF Version to download the pdf.

There are web based versions as well, but the interface is laughable (on my Android anyways).

http://www.apega.ca/Members/Publications/ePEGG.html

The racist joke one was one of my favorites - it's really commom in all industries, but I honestly believe the majority of people aren't genuinely racist- hell, I love me a good joke about how stupid we Polacks is! :rofl:

Another memorable one that comes to mind is the engineer sending his stamp out for someone else to use on documents over a long period of time ... and getting busted for it - banned for life IIRC.

Least favorite/most disturbing: dude getting busted at the airport with child porn. Sickening.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ExtraSlow]

I don't think they publish the complaints until after the discipline committee has made a judgment. Some of the judgments are not published. Not fully sure how that works.

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I don't think they publish the complaints until after the discipline committee has made a judgment. Some of the judgments are not published. Not fully sure how that works.

If deemed appropriate the judgement will include as punishment "to be published in the Peg magazine" if it is real bad it will include names, if not it will appear nameless.

[heavyfuel]

OMG WHAT??? Engineers f****ed up??? No way!!!

[killramos]

Originally posted by heavyfuel
OMG WHAT??? Engineers f****ed up??? No way!!!

Congratulations, do you want a T Shirt for being caller number 9?

:whocares:

[Hallowed_point]

Yes they sure do..in fact my grandfather died as the result of an engineering boo boo with the second narrows bridge in Vancouver aka the iron workers memorial bridge. They are only human..just with bigger egos!

[sr20s14zenki]

Haha. It's funny what engineers and architects can get away with. The 4th street hand rail my shop did for example.. All horizontal cable rail... Yet by code.. They shouldn't be allowed to use horizontal members in that area (promotes climbing). Not sure how they swung that one.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
Haha. It's funny what engineers and architects can get away with. The 4th street hand rail my shop did for example.. All horizontal cable rail... Yet by code.. They shouldn't be allowed to use horizontal members in that area (promotes climbing). Not sure how they swung that one.

There are requirements you have to follow to have horizontal rails. It's not outlawed.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by 88CRX


There are requirements you have to follow to have horizontal rails. It's not outlawed.

Interesting. Never looked into code... Just went by what my draftsman told me.. As well as a few guys I know that do a lot of decorative.. Etc..

Are you familiar with the code?

[88CRX]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki


Interesting. Never looked into code... Just went by what my draftsman told me.. As well as a few guys I know that do a lot of decorative.. Etc..

Are you familiar with the code?

Not all the specifics off the top of my head. I'm curious now, will double check tomorrow.

[lilmira]

I couldn't find it in the code that specifically says no cable but I can think of a reason why it isn't allowed. It is not allowed to have an opening bigger than 100mmx100mm. That's pretty tough to do with cables.

No feature to facilitate climbing, that part is correct.

[jacky4566]

Could some one please provide more explanation to this.
If an engineer stamps construction drawings does that not override the Alberta Building Code?
Ie. The engg now takes the responsibility for the architects wild dreams.

[lilmira]

Originally posted by jacky4566
Could some one please provide more explanation to this.
If an engineer stamps construction drawings does that not override the Alberta Building Code?
Ie. The engg now takes the responsibility for the architects wild dreams.

The building code is the minimum requirement. Not everything is covered by the building code however.

Would any engineer under design something on purpose? I don't know but he or she'd better have a fantastic reason for it.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by lilmira
I couldn't find it in the code that specifically says no cable but I can think of a reason why it isn't allowed. It is not allowed to have an opening bigger than 100mmx100mm. That's pretty tough to do with cables.

No feature to facilitate climbing, that part is correct.

My biggest fear or issue was that a child could easily get their head caught between the cables... Especially since the spacing was 4feet. Allows a ton of flex.

I just love how the homeless keep climbing them on the Se side of the property to get into the lot next door. They are all bent now. We used the hardware they specified =)

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by jacky4566
Could some one please provide more explanation to this.
If an engineer stamps construction drawings does that not override the Alberta Building Code?
Ie. The engg now takes the responsibility for the architects wild dreams.

It is SOMEWHAT true from what i understand. As a CWB division 2 company, we are required to have on retainer, an engineer, AND a draftsman. 9/10 times we do a job, they require engineer stamped drawings before we continue with the job. It is our signing engineers job to ensure the design works from an engineering standpoint. If any changes need to be made, to make it structurally sound, we show them, and the consultant ok's them before we continue on. You should see some of the half assed shit we get...and its not from small engineering firm *ch2mhill* cough cough.

[lilmira]

I don't know how these stuff got through neither. I assume that either an architect or engineer has signed it off and the building official gave them occupancy based on that, it's just a guess.

It does make my job difficult when people say they have seen it done somewhere. I see stuff like that from time to time myself too and I'm not just talking about some guy's house or small office. If shit happens, someone's gonna have some explaining to do.

[kaput]

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[lilmira]

Potato

The acceptable solutions mentioned in the code represent the minimum level of performance that satisfies the objectives of the code. Minimum performance is what I mean not the exact solution.

[kaput]

.

[lilmira]

Well may be, you'd better have a very good reason to back up why you need less. The thing is that the numbers in the code are not some magical barriers. Like you said, it's just a standard people came up with. When it says this has to hold yay pounds, one design that holds yay+1 is not magically better than yay-1. However, there is very rarely a valid reason to not design it to hold yay at least so why do yay-1?

Of course the code is not written in stone, that's why it's been revised periodically as technology progresses. Some of it is just our best educated guess at the moment. If you find yourself in uncharted territory, use your best judgement.

[g-m]

It can be hard to get regulatory approval to deviate from your industry code