Vibration with new winter rims and tires(from kaltire)

[hogujak]

I bought Nokian r2 and Core racing Lizea rims from Kaltire two days ago for my 2014 VW passat.

Day 1

They installed them and used wrong rug nuts. So I had to wait extra 30 mins after I arrived there. Shit happens.. I didn't care much.

I felt severe vibration after they finished the installation.

Went back there and they re-torqued the bolts = same vibration

Went back again and they re-balanced = same vibration

I spent a whole day to fix brand new tires and rims. (from 10am to 6pm)

Day 2

Went back again. Test drove with one of their technicians. And he confirmed that the tires are not sitting properly on the rims.

They inflated tires with higher pressure(they said it will help tires sitting on the rims properly) but I still have same vibration.

I asked them to replace the rims and tires to new ones but they said it's brand new so it shouldn't be because of that. (what the hell is the problem then?? technicians?? or what..)


It's Kaltire on Ellerslie road in Edmonton.

They made me come there three times for the same vibration problem after initial installation.

What should I do now? should I ask them to install hub centric rings?(they should have know this if I needed it)or keep on asking new rims/tires?

Shit happens but one of the receptionists(her name is Veronica I think.. middle aged blond woman) is extremely rude and refused everything I asked.

She refused to change them to new ones.
And she doesn't really answer my questions and kept on telling me " it will be fixed".
And I asked her if I can take one of their technicians for test drive and she said "no. they are too busy". I was very angry at this point but the other receptionist(Brad) got me a technician right away.
Of course she never said sorry after I wasted two days.

Any advice??

[lilmira]

Put your wheels back on, drop off new tires/wheels, get your money back and take your business somewhere else. Unfortunately I know nothing about tire shops in Edmonton.

[hogujak]

Originally posted by lilmira
Put your wheels back on, drop off new tires/wheels, get your money back and take your business somewhere else. Unfortunately I know nothing about tire shops in Edmonton.

They also refused refund.

[01RedDX]

.

[lilmira]

Originally posted by hogujak


They also refused refund.

I would just stand in the shop all day making a big scene until either they fix the problem or give you the money back. They sold you something that didn't work from day one. If you really don't have the time and have more important things to do, go get them fixed at a reliable shop, good luck trying to get Kal Tire to reimburse you though if they are already pain in the butt to deal with.

[eglove]

Hub rings?

[AE92_TreunoSC]

You are not satisfied with the product and are entitled to a refund in my opinion.

Call AMVIC, they act as a mediator in this scenario, they will help advise you of your actions. Do not contact Kal Tire any further.

http://www.amvic.org/contact-us-2/

Core racing rims are cheap and I've seen a few defects with them, usually can spot the defects on a balancer. I've never let one go with a customer yet.

[hogujak]

Originally posted by eglove
Hub rings?

That is what I thought initially but are they that dumb so they didn't even think about using hub rings?

[Auditor]

Get in touch with customer service- 1-800-663-9350.

All stores are corporate owned so they should be able to help out and according to the website Brad L is actually the manager there.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by hogujak


They also refused refund.

Drop the tires off and do a chargeback on your credit card.

[FraserB]

Ask for a formal refusal in writing and then do a chargeback on your card. Don't even bother giving the tires back unless your CC company tells you to, chances are they won't.

[firebane]

Fuck Kaltire.

Bunch of weenie heads who know little.

They can't even reset the oil life meter on our work cars.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


Drop the tires off and do a chargeback on your credit card.

Exactly what I was gonna say. Don't give them the option not to refund you. haha

[samo147]

I bought winter tires for my beater a long time ago. Same problem with vibration around 80km/h. The tires were out of round. They didn't do anything to fix the problem.

Never used them ever again. Urban ex is my go to tire shop now.

[G-ZUS]

Originally posted by FraserB
Ask for a formal refusal in writing and then do a chargeback on your card. Don't even bother giving the tires back unless your CC company tells you to, chances are they won't.

:werd:

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
That's a typical KalTire story

Yup.

[osspasha]

Kaltire is overly priced,FYI a very good tire shop in edmonton is European auto tint http://www.europeanautotinting.com/

I got a set of audi replicas with bridgestone winter tires for $1550 +tax installed, same set quoted at kaltire for $1992 + tax

[jsn]

I considered going to Kal Tire only because they seem to be the only ones who carry Nokians. Ended up buying a used set of Nokians instead.

[Dumbass17]

I got my tires installed at Kal Tire on 32nd ave here in Calgary. Very friendly Filipino (I believe) who seemed to be the manager there. Good guy

[Masked Bandit]

Separated belts? Shouldn't that show up on the balancing machine though?

[hogujak]

Originally posted by jsn
I considered going to Kal Tire only because they seem to be the only ones who carry Nokians. Ended up buying a used set of Nokians instead.

That was the reason why i went kaltire. Other places don't have nokian..

[hogujak]

Originally posted by osspasha
Kaltire is overly priced,FYI a very good tire shop in edmonton is European auto tint http://www.europeanautotinting.com/

I got a set of audi replicas with bridgestone winter tires for $1550 +tax installed, same set quoted at kaltire for $1992 + tax

What bridgestone tires did you get?

[T-Dubbs]

Some cheap wheels just do not like to balance. I've expirenced it at my previous job (big local tire/tuner shop).
We tried three different sets of tires on the same cheap wheels, and always had a vibration.
You always get what you pay for.

[CompletelyNumb]

KalTire is good for last minute appointments I find. Drop truck off at 7am. Pick it up at noon. Handy when you work out of town and have no set schedule, good tire shops can't always accommodate "I'm only in town tomorrow".

Their work is satisfactory.

[ercchry]

yeah sounds like you are missing the hubcentric rings... that would be my first course of action

[vtec]

what you're probably experiencing is excessive road force. I've mounted/balanced tons of tires and have always found Nokian tires to be bad for that.

[italianstylez]

^ this , also kal sucks period, make the idiots spin the tires on rims 180 degree , inflate too 110+ drop to zero then re inflate to your cars recommended pressure, also check for properly fitting hub rings or just force a refund when I worked at kal we had millions of problems with their Cheapo wheels and vibration issues , cheap poorly casted junk

[hogujak]

Originally posted by vtec
what you're probably experiencing is excessive road force. I've mounted/balanced tons of tires and have always found Nokian tires to be bad for that.

they replaced rims but I still have same vibration. it must be something with tires.

I found that some nokian r2 owners have vibration issue just like me.

I will have them to replace tires and see if the vibration goes away.

[revelations]

Is the vibration happening only at a specific speed? If so, its a balance issue.

If the vibration gets worse with increasing speed, it could indicate an out of concentric or out of round condition (tire or rim). A simple dial indicator would immediately tell you which way and how much its off by.

Sometimes telling techs the actual issue (they can sometimes be too lazy to bother) will yield results. But sounds like youre already at the CC chargeback position.

[dj_rice]

I had a customer who purchased a GL63 AMG, I brought in some Pirelli Winter Carving Edge in 295/40R21 in 111T. He complained about vibration issues going above 90KM/HR and was very adamant it was the tire itself and not balancing issues.

Brought in Pirelli Scorpion Winter in same size but 111V and said vibration is gone. So I'm not too sure if speed rating plays into vibration which it shouldn't since it's a winter tire but check that out?

[RickDaTuner]

I bet you the bore size for the wheels they sold you are too small, and they cannot get it to sit flush on the hub face.

Hubcentric rings are only there to aid with the installation of the wheels, unless you are running a tractor unit, or a full ton sized truck, all wheels are lug centric mounting.

German cars all have very random over sized hub bores.

[idriveabox]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
I bet you the bore size for the wheels they sold you are too small, and they cannot get it to sit flush on the hub face.

Hubcentric rings are only there to aid with the installation of the wheels, unless you are running a tractor unit, or a full ton sized truck, all wheels are lug centric mounting.

German cars all have very random over sized hub bores.

This. Do the new wheels have the rings mounted? First thing I would check/ask.

[hogujak]

Originally posted by revelations
Is the vibration happening only at a specific speed? If so, its a balance issue.

If the vibration gets worse with increasing speed, it could indicate an out of concentric or out of round condition (tire or rim). A simple dial indicator would immediately tell you which way and how much its off by.

Sometimes telling techs the actual issue (they can sometimes be too lazy to bother) will yield results. But sounds like youre already at the CC chargeback position.

I like the tires so I am still waiting for them to fix the problem.

I get the vibration with any speed...so it's not just balancing issue I think.

And they already re balanced them 3~4times and told me they got "0" for the balance.

[hogujak]

Originally posted by idriveabox


This. Do the new wheels have the rings mounted? First thing I would check/ask.

They said they have installed hub centric rings already.

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by hogujak


They said they have installed hub centric rings already.

I feel I beed to re-state that hub centric rings, have nothing to do with how the wheel sits on the car when installed, and are only there to help line up the lugs so as to allow ease of nut, or studs during installation.

Take the car somewhere else, and pass the bill onto that shop.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by hogujak


I like the tires so I am still waiting for them to fix the problem.

I get the vibration with any speed...so it's not just balancing issue I think.

And they already re balanced them 3~4times and told me they got "0" for the balance.

Everything can be perfectly balanced and you can still get a vibration from the tire having a road force variance issue. In a nutshell, if the tire has any high spots/low spots or overlapping belts etc that cause the amount of pressure being applied to the road surface while under load (the weight of the vehicle squishes down the bottom of the tire) to vary beyond an acceptable level, this will cause a vibration problem as well. If the shop does not have a road force machine, the tire can look good to the eye so this gets missed.

Find a separate shop with a Road Force GSP9700 machine and have the tires looked at under load (not just a rebalance) and match mounted if required.

[JustinMCS]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner


I feel I beed to re-state that hub centric rings, have nothing to do with how the wheel sits on the car when installed, and are only there to help line up the lugs so as to allow ease of nut, or studs during installation.

Take the car somewhere else, and pass the bill onto that shop.

I guess the internet says a lot of things about this. Some people say the when the hubcentric wheel is mounted to the car, the wheel rests on a lip instead of the wheel bolts or studs. The lip is usually 9-10.5mm in depth. The lip contributes to the strength of the wheel and the wheel cannot safely be used without a lip. The wheel bolts are not strong enough to support the weight and loads generated through the wheel. (as per a site on the interwebs talking hubcentric wheels and spacers)

And some say not.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner


I feel I beed to re-state that hub centric rings, have nothing to do with how the wheel sits on the car when installed, and are only there to help line up the lugs so as to allow ease of nut, or studs during installation.

Take the car somewhere else, and pass the bill onto that shop. The hubrings do help center the wheel better while tightening the lugs, which is why most vehicles do get vibrations without rings, but they do nothing in regards to supporting the weight of the vehicle or the like for sure. Hub-centric is always more precise than non hub-centric. Cars are so hyper sensitive these days compared to years gone by so it definitely makes a difference...

[tirebob]

Originally posted by JustinMCS


No. Hubcentric wheels on german cars are not this way. When mounted to the car, the wheel rests on a lip instead of the wheel bolts or studs. The lip is usually 9-10.5mm in depth. The lip contributes to the strength of the wheel and the wheel cannot safely be used without a lip. The wheel bolts are not strong enough to support the weight and loads generated through the wheel.

Physics guys have been debating this forever. I am no physics guy but I have had many that completely disagree with your assessment and I tend to agree with them. I can't for the life of me break down the numbers for anyone of the top of my head but the information is out there and it has been proven to me by smarty pants talking to me in dumb guy terms.

Think about it... Cars were non hub-centric for years and when they weighed a shit ton more than they do now, and they were not sheering off wheels then. That said, I am a fan of hubrings for ride quality purposes for certain. I am not scared to run without them though.

Here is a post on a physics forum that you all might be able to understand better than myself, but it basically says that it just ain't so...


OK, let's put some load on the wheel. Vertical force: Let's put 5000 lb on the wheel. That is the equivalent of the entire car sitting on a single wheel (all other three are in the air). The suspension is actually bottomed out at that point; a situation that is not should not be typical driving. This is for sure a lot worst than the peak that you could get from any typical dynamic situation. Lateral force: A good hi-performance tire can have a friction coefficient of 1.0. (Most typical vehicles would have at most 0.9). So the max lateral force before slipping occurs would be 5000 lb. Longitudinal force: For simplicity's sake, let's assume the wheel is locked under braking and that there is also the maximal friction force in that direction, i.e. 5000 lb. Note that it is impossible to have the maximum friction force in both lateral an longitudinal directions. But let's say it does. Sooooooo ... If I have a 5000 lb lateral load on my «inside» wheel (let's assume it is pulling the wheel out and not pushing it in: Even though this is almost impossible to do in a real situation), the net effect will be that I will have 85 000 lb instead of 90 000 lb of preload on my bolts. That drops my 54 000 lb of friction force down to 51 000 lb. You know what? The 0.6 friction coefficient for the wheel/hub might be too optimistic (although possible), let's use the lowest I've seen up until now for steel-on-steel: 0.2. So the 51 000 lb goes down to 17 000 lb of friction force between the wheel and the hub. So the forces left in the wheel/hub plane (vertical and longitudinal) are both 5000 lb; Which give us a 7000 lb force when added up as vectors. 17 000 / 7 000 = 2.4 With all the crazy assumptions I've made - not even possible to repeat in real life - I still get a safety factor of 2.4. I'm still missing 10 000 lb of force to be able to slide one plate over the other. For this to occur, I would have to redo my calculations by assuming that there is a vertical force that is equivalent of two cars sitting on a single wheel ... Vibrations? They even use slip-critical joints for bridges BECAUSE there is stress reversal, heavy impact and large vibrations: Bolted shear connections are classified as either bearing-type or slip-critical. The latter are required for connections subject to stress reversal, heavy impact, large vibrations, or where joint slippage would be detrimental to the serviceability of the bridge. http://www.civilengineeringx.com/structural-analysis/structural-steel/basic-allowable-stresses-for-bridges/​ If bridges can't create enough force and vibration to move a friction joint, it must be possible to do the same for a tiny wheel, don't you think? You can play it safe all you want, but I can't believe that there are other load bearing components between the wheel and hub apart from friction. It is certainly not a «loose-fit» hole stamped in a steel sheet over a 3" hub protuberance that will do the trick. It is most likely that hub-centric/lug-centric only defines the point of reference for the center of the wheel; an important detail when you want to balance the wheel separately from the hub.

EDIT* OMG!!! Sorry it is all lumped together like that... LOL

[JustinMCS]

yes i changed my post, a lot of the interwebs has conflicting info about whether or not the weight of the wheels is entirely on the studs or not

[tirebob]

Originally posted by JustinMCS
yes i changed my post, a lot of the interwebs has conflicting info about whether or not the weight of the wheels is entirely on the studs or not You are kind of right in a way... Say someone severely over-torques lug bolts and the strength is compromised and they start breaking/sheering (that I have seen before many times), if the wheel is hub-centric it will help carry the weight of the vehicle more-so than if the wheels were non hub-centric, and that could help a person from loosing a wheel instantaneously...

Really, in all reality we all know hub rings make things way better so we should use them anyways, but if I lost one and had to put my wheels on for a while without one, I would not be nervous at all...

[hogujak]

The shop manager wants to try Michelin X-ice 3 on the same rims and I personally like X-ice 3 tire as well so I will give it a try. (I had X-ice 3 for my F150 pickup and I really liked it as it was quieter and smoother than Nokian R2 for my SUV)

I also found that there's a Kaltire location with road force machine in Edmonton so worse case I can go to that location and fix the problem..

But what a hassle and waste of my time...Fxxx.....

The only reason why I still didn't request a refund is that I got like $150 off through my company corporate discount program from Kaltire. And the manager is a quite nice guy.




Just for those who will visit this Kaltire location to buy tires.

The assistant manager, Veronica was the worst person I have ever dealt with in my life. She treats all customers like she installs tires for free. She also ignores every customers requests and makes lame excuses just not to help them. I have seen her arguing with customers many times. So I don't deal with her anymore. I don't how this kind of person works in the service industry.

[clem24]

Fucking Kal Tire can't balance tires worth shit. Bought new WR-G2s from them a few months ago from the 42nd Ave S location. Took it to Nordegg the following weekend and vibrated like hell. Took it BACK to them, tried again to balance, STILL couldn't get it done. Finally paid my own fucking mechanic to do it and he finally got the job done. Never again. Fuck Kal and their monopoly on Nokians.

I hope I mentioned fuck Kal.

[BavarianBeast]

KAL TIRE SUCKS!

They couldn't balance my wheels properly after 4-5 attempts. Fast forward 4 months and I am still fighting with them over the issue. Going to give them 1 more week before I take it up with amvic.

42nd ave location.

[MGCM]

just had my brand new kw-22's installed the other week, already got vibration.......BUT, that is because there is madd snow/ice on the inside of my rims. Guys make sure you are checking for snow/ice build up inside the rim. All it takes is one drive thru the thick shit to pack snow/ice on the inside and unbalance a rim. On my way to the car wash finally to fix mine :thumbsup:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[clem24]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I just buy loose Nokians from Kal-Tire and have them mounted elsewhere... too much bad mojo at Kal-Tire

I tried that once at the Barlow and 16th location. Those FUCKERS threw the pair of tires on the ground in front of me, told me here you go, and then threatened me by saying if I don't get them installed here then we will NOT provide any support or warranty.

:banghead: :banghead:

[clem24]

Originally posted by BavarianBeast
KAL TIRE SUCKS!

They couldn't balance my wheels properly after 4-5 attempts. Fast forward 4 months and I am still fighting with them over the issue. Going to give them 1 more week before I take it up with amvic.

42nd ave location.

I seriously think their balancing machine is supremely fucked. Not only that, but my mechanic showed me how they jammed those clip on wheel balances on the outside of my wheel with a huge gap in between because, well, they just simply DON'T FIT and will eventually fall off. These guys seriously don't know what the fuck they are doing. Took a pic too:

[BavarianBeast]

I'm sure it is fucked. I took the car over to urban x on horton road and they said that kal tire had placed weights all over the rim and they were not balanced at all. Urban X balanced them but the car still rides like shit, kal tire claims it's because my wheels now have to be lug-centric instead of hub-centric. They have been trying to find me a new wheel for weeks and weeks now with no luck..

[duaner]

I've been going to Kal Tire in Deer Run for seven or eight years and have gone through a few sets of the Nokian WR series. Never had an issue. If a wheel becomes unbalanced they've always been able to set right again.

They were bragging to me a few years back that they got some new balancing machine so they can do high-end car rims. Something to do with how fine it can balance. :dunno: I could care less, as long as they can get me balanced.

Which reminds me, I'm due for a "free" warranty rotation asap and need the balance checked on the front two.

[HomespunLobster]

I worked at that location when they got the new fancy balancing machine. Thing was great.
Not sure if they still calibrate the machine. I did it on a monthly basis.

[duaner]

Originally posted by HomespunLobster
I worked at that location when they got the new fancy balancing machine. Thing was great.
Not sure if they still calibrate the machine. I did it on a monthly basis.
Guess I'll find out within a week or two. lol

[Sugarphreak]

....

[clem24]

Originally posted by duaner
I've been going to Kal Tire in Deer Run for seven or eight years and have gone through a few sets of the Nokian WR series. Never had an issue. If a wheel becomes unbalanced they've always been able to set right again.

They were bragging to me a few years back that they got some new balancing machine so they can do high-end car rims. Something to do with how fine it can balance. :dunno: I could care less, as long as they can get me balanced.

Deer Run.. Ok maybe I'll try going there when I need a re-balance. I assume you can go to any other Kal to get a free balance.

[BavarianBeast]

clem24, are you dealing with the manager named Mike at Kal Tire on 42nd?

[clem24]

Originally posted by BavarianBeast
clem24, are you dealing with the manager named Mike at Kal Tire on 42nd?

I have no clue who I dealt with TBH but def not a manager.. I just know I won't be returning. And they owe me $40 since I had to get the tires balanced at my own expense haha.