M6 Reliability/Maintenance?

[shakalaka]

Looking for some input from people who have experience with these vehicles. Particularly the 2010 version. I am contemplating switching my C63 for one of these, but I don't want to undertake a future pain in the ass.

Thanks guys.

[Shlade]

Gay

keep the c63

[InRich]

M6 def much better looking.

edit and the M5 is better looking then the M6

[03ozwhip]

I don't know much about them, however, I do know that the M5 looks better than the M6 and I would trade the C63 for one of those in a heartbeat.

I've heard maintenance on the M is pretty expensive, but I can't see it being anymore than your Merc...but I could be completely wrong.

[shakalaka]

The issue is that my C63 still has 3 years of warranty remaining. 1 original manufacturer and 2 CPO. The M6 being a 2010 would be out of warranty all together. It is a competition edition, only 10 made in Canada and only has 30K km's. So I will be a paying little more for it than for the C63 and going a year older. Love the coupe, always wanted a coupe so a bit torn about it.

[riander5]

Good luck bud. Newer bmws are renowned for their reliability so you should prob get the most expensive ones ever to fix. Weren't you griping over a brake job when you got a c63? Lol

[BrknFngrs]

Based on some of the other C63 focused threads it seems like you're pretty concerned about recurring maintenance and upkeep costs, depreciation, etc on the C. Have to think that an out of warranty M car that's also slightly older may end up stressing you out.

Nice cars though, always been a big fan of the M5/6

[shakalaka]

Yea I do complain about maintenance lol. But schedule maintenance is one thing, the last thing I want to do is paying for fixing shit that would be covered under warranty normally.

[riander5]

go on m5/m6 boards to get an idea.... I kind of wanted one too but the fact that bmws are on a downward trend in terms of reliability is scary.... Although I heard the e92 m3s are one of their best engines in terms of reliability I'm not sure if the v10s were as good (and the transmissions!!! Ahh!!)

[dingmah]

Be prepared for the dreaded VANOS issue that plagues all gas BMW engines. This VANOS issue goes back all the way to E39/E36 days even. Hesitant acceleration at certain RPM then surging to the next gear. The best part of this VANOS issue... could happen without check engine light or codes being thrown. So then dealers get it wrong and replace the transmission only to realize it doesn't fix it.

On the M5/M6 V10, it's not an easy or cheap fix. It requires ripping off the entire front end and radiator to get to. Great cars, but these sort of German car issues piss the hell outta me, and make me wanna sell it. Then I get back in one and drive, and forget it all.

[killramos]

I highly recommend you drive one extensively esp if you are getting smg3. Those transmissions are a nightmare.

I have heard that beyond being garbage the smg3 is very expensive to maintain.

Also coming from a high torque relatively light C63 you might not like the M6. It's much more at home on a track and I didn't find it particularly fun to drive in the city. Needs 5500+ Rpms to be fun so basically you drive it around like a Honda owner.

Just my personal experience with them.

[jdmXSI]

My two biggest concerns would be cost of repair and the fact that the 6 and 7 series depreciate so quickly would be enough to keep me away.

[shakalaka]

Thanks for the input guys, I've ran some numbers as well and it seems like I would be taking too much of a hit getting rid of the c63 so soon, so that's definitely discouraging me. Plus I have been reading about SMG issues all over the internet as well and I don't know if I feel comfortable about getting one that's not under warranty. So may just end up keeping the C63 for at least a little while longer before thinking of switching.

Another car I looked at was a brand new Jaguar XFR. I loved the front end of it, but the side profile didn't attract me at all. Just looked very bulky compared to the C63. Amazing cars though, very powerful with a 500hp supercharged engine. But again the issue of losing a lot of money on the c63 comes into play which financially speaking doesn't make sense. Maybe I will mod it a little more to keep me interested. lol

Wish I didn't have such car ADD that I feel like switching every year or so. The wallet takes a big hit every time!:banghead:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Very unreliably cars and the smg isn't very street friendly. If it was a new body style m6 than thats a different story.

[you&me]

Originally posted by killramos
I highly recommend you drive one extensively esp if you are getting smg3. Those transmissions are a nightmare.

I have heard that beyond being garbage the smg3 is very expensive to maintain.

Also coming from a high torque relatively light C63 you might not like the M6. It's much more at home on a track and I didn't find it particularly fun to drive in the city. Needs 5500+ Rpms to be fun so basically you drive it around like a Honda owner.

Just my personal experience with them.

Can you elaborate on your M6 experience?

For reference, I had almost 3 years and 30k km on my coupe and your points area all bunk.

As I mentioned in the paddle shifter thread, despite what you've "heard", the SMGII/III is not "garbage". It's certainly not up to a modern dual clutch, but if you have reasonable expectations, it's exactly what you'd expect it to be - a fine single clutch box from the days when that's all there was.

You also make it sound like it can't get out of it's own way - you do not have to "drive it around like a Honda owner". There's a surprisingly ample amount of tourque and the V10 revs freely and quickly, so you're past any lack of low-end grunt in the rev range quickly. I know my friend in his Murcielago at the time was pretty surprised by it's grunt (side note - the single clutch in that car, now that was 'worst-of-breed' and made the SMG seem like it was a dual clutch).

And no, it's not more suited for the track... It's a 4,000lb GT car.

All that being said, I wouldn't trade a C63 for one. The transmission out of warranty is a scary fix. Also, I've seen the ad for the Competition car listed in Edmonton and the guy is on crack - I know of current style coupes that have traded in that range.

[rage2]

I've driven the V10 M5 and the exhaust note with a proper exhaust is intoxicating. With that being said I wouldn't go back to an SMG transmission. The cost of repairs on the V10 scares the shit outta me too.

[M.alex]

$10-15k for tranny repair, lulz

[Traffic_Cop]

I have a 2010 M5. No issues whatsoever and its just rolled over 100,000 km. my only advice would be to ensure its been dealer serviced and all scheduled maitenance has been done. It blows me away how many people want such an awesome car, but will cheap out on the maitenance. Its also funny when people gripe about stuff, 9/10 if they had taken it to the dealer, the issue would probably have been on a recall and fixed for free.

That said.....i hate the smg. Its jerky and just plain annoying.

Its hard to find a decent M5/6. So take your time.

[killramos]

Originally posted by you&me


Can you elaborate on your M6 experience?

For reference, I had almost 3 years and 30k km on my coupe and your points area all bunk.

As I mentioned in the paddle shifter thread, despite what you've "heard", the SMGII/III is not "garbage". It's certainly not up to a modern dual clutch, but if you have reasonable expectations, it's exactly what you'd expect it to be - a fine single clutch box from the days when that's all there was.

You also make it sound like it can't get out of it's own way - you do not have to "drive it around like a Honda owner". There's a surprisingly ample amount of tourque and the V10 revs freely and quickly, so you're past any lack of low-end grunt in the rev range quickly. I know my friend in his Murcielago at the time was pretty surprised by it's grunt (side note - the single clutch in that car, now that was 'worst-of-breed' and made the SMG seem like it was a dual clutch).

And no, it's not more suited for the track... It's a 4,000lb GT car.

All that being said, I wouldn't trade a C63 for one. The transmission out of warranty is a scary fix. Also, I've seen the ad for the Competition car listed in Edmonton and the guy is on crack - I know of current style coupes that have traded in that range.

What would you like me to elaborate on?

We have a '09 M6 Vert SMGIII that we picked up last January in Phoenix. I put about 600-700km on the car in a week driving it around town highways parking etc.

My overall opinion is that the interior is extremely dated especially the idrive. The SMGIII transmission is indeed garbage. It does not shift smoothly and is a pain in the ass in a parking lot. I played through all of the drive logic settings, automatic and manual and while some were better than others it was not an enjoyable around town experience. I got over it to enjoy the oppetunity to drive it but it had some glaring omissions.

The car does not feel that fast which is largely attributed to its huge weight. Not very much low end torque either which is well explained by any dyno of the engine with the first peak located around 3500 rpm and the rated peak coming at ~5800 rpm. So yea you have the rev the sweet piss out of it for the engine to shine :rolleyes: .

I am glad you liked your smg, however you are in the minority with that opinion. You are genuinely the first person I have ever met who has driven one and praises the transmission. I don't think saying it is better than e-gear is a proud endorsement imo...

I have driven smg2 e46's and found them much better. I have also driven early model dct's from the same era and there is no comparison.

So there you go that is an "elaboration" of my experience with an M6. I will also say that you disagreeing with me does not debunk anything. I will tell you that while it was a cool experience I was happy to be back in my 2 when i flew back to calgary. And I certainly wouldn't trade a great dd for a V10 M6.

[you&me]

Originally posted by killramos


What would you like me to elaborate on?

We have a '09 M6 Vert SMGIII that we picked up last January in Phoenix. I put about 600-700km on the car in a week driving it around town highways parking etc.

My overall opinion is that the interior is extremely dated especially the idrive. The SMGIII transmission is indeed garbage. It does not shift smoothly and is a pain in the ass in a parking lot. I played through all of the drive logic settings, automatic and manual and while some were better than others it was not an enjoyable around town experience. I got over it to enjoy the oppetunity to drive it but it had some glaring omissions.

The car does not feel that fast which is largely attributed to its huge weight. Not very much low end torque either which is well explained by any dyno of the engine with the first peak located around 3500 rpm and the rated peak coming at ~5800 rpm. So yea you have the rev the sweet piss out of it for the engine to shine :rolleyes: .

I am glad you liked your smg, however you are in the minority with that opinion. You are genuinely the first person I have ever met who has driven one and praises the transmission. I don't think saying it is better than e-gear is a proud endorsement imo...

I have driven smg2 e46's and found them much better. I have also driven early model dct's from the same era and there is no comparison.

So there you go that is an "elaboration" of my experience with an M6. I will also say that you disagreeing with me does not debunk anything. I will tell you that while it was a cool experience I was happy to be back in my 2 when i flew back to calgary. And I certainly wouldn't trade a great dd for a V10 M6.

It's nice to hear an opinion on the transmission from someone who's actually driven the car.

I don't think I'm praising the SMG, but I'll defend it as not being as bad as its reputation would imply. As I said, it's not as smooth as a dual clutch, nor should be expected to be. I feel that if someone goes in, without carrying any bias towards the transmission and keeps in mind the period the car is from, the transmission in the M5/6 shouldn't keep you from enjoying the car. Fastest mode, slight lift between shifts, taking it easy in parking lots, etc all make it better than most accounts would have you believe.

Anyways, I think we generally agree, but it seems like I'm just willing to give it a little more latitude when considering the performance of the transmission...

And we all seem to agree about trading a C63 for an M6...

[Graham_A_M]

^ SMG sucks... thats why I just said "fuck this" and sold mine, Its a disaster, I NEVER drag raced the car, and the clutch shit the bed at 100k km's.... yet on my (now much former) DD with a full manual, it had 350k on the original clutch, and still had lots of life left on it, so I know it sure as hell wasn't me that fried it.
I cant even imagine how much a new clutch would be on an M6, my god.

:nut:

Then as what was said, you have the VANOS to worry about.... its like....
:eek:

[max_boost]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs
Based on some of the other C63 focused threads it seems like you're pretty concerned about recurring maintenance and upkeep costs, depreciation, etc on the C. Have to think that an out of warranty M car that's also slightly older may end up stressing you out.

Nice cars though, always been a big fan of the M5/6 Nice filtered response.

Yea shak, you come across as kinda cheap so if I were you, stick to the C63 and I mean that in the nicest car enthusiast way (I'm the same way). Slow depreciation and nothing but scheduled maintenance so far on my 911 haha

:thumbsup:

[msommers]

Cheap but ballin law student? I say buy the M6! Great looking car, will get all the hunnies!

[Sugarphreak]

...

[shakalaka]

Thanks for all the input guys, that pretty much answers all the doubts I had. I think I am going to stick to the C63 for now, I do love the car and it's a blast to drive. Might as well keep it for the warranty period or at least as much of it as possible and upgrade down the line. At that time depending on the financial situation perhaps I will look at GTR's or 911's.

I am definitely 'cheap' when it comes to spending money on maintenance. I've spent over a thousand on carbon fibre diffusers and other parts for this car but for some reason I don't like to spend much on servicing it lol. At 28 I am no longer as young as I used to be, so perhaps my tastes are starting to change a bit. But I've always had a thing for coupe's so perhaps that's why I started considering it. You guys have affirmed my doubts, so it would be a bad call right now.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[bjstare]

Originally posted by killramos


What would you like me to elaborate on?

We have a '09 M6 Vert SMGIII that we picked up last January in Phoenix. I put about 600-700km on the car in a week driving it around town highways parking etc.

*snip*

So lemme get this straight. You have a place in phoenix where you have an 09 M6, but you have a 235 at your home in Calgary? Do you spend more time in phoenix than calgary or something? I thought you're a young engineer haha
:hijack:


@OP: Good call staying with the C63. I drove one for the first time a couple weeks ago, and it seems like it would be a kick ass DD. I'm going to try and pick one up in the spring. And I can echo the SMG reliability comments for the v10 M cars - I had a buddy who had to fix the SMG in his M5, and it was upwards of $10k:eek:

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I've heard the R8 is cheap and reliable as a daily driver... not the most practical car though :D

Pfft, what a rookie.

http://db3.stb.s-msn.com/i/37/A37149408FB836E6571B42D78FE114.jpg

[killramos]

Originally posted by cjblair


So lemme get this straight. You have a place in phoenix where you have an 09 M6, but you have a 235 at your home in Calgary? Do you spend more time in phoenix than calgary or something? I thought you're a young engineer haha
:hijack:


@OP: Good call staying with the C63. I drove one for the first time a couple weeks ago, and it seems like it would be a kick ass DD. I'm going to try and pick one up in the spring. And I can echo the SMG reliability comments for the v10 M cars - I had a buddy who had to fix the SMG in his M5, and it was upwards of $10k:eek:

A) the 235 is worth more than the M6.

B) neither the house nor the M6 is mine personally

C) yes I am a young engineer

Welcome to calgary. We have T shirts.

[shakalaka]

R8 is definitely an option and it will be daily driven including snow if I ever end up getting it. Getting married next year but no plan of kids for another 4-5 years after that so it should be able to serve my purpose. Lol

[SkiBum5.0]

Originally posted by shakalaka
R8 is definitely an option and it will be daily driven including snow if I ever end up getting it. Getting married next year but no plan of kids for another 4-5 years after that so it should be able to serve my purpose. Lol

The R8 will not be any better for maintenance costs. It might be more reliable, but not cheaper to maintain.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by SkiBum5.0


The R8 will not be any better for maintenance costs. It might be more reliable, but not cheaper to maintain.

From what it sounds like, maintenance costs isn't a problem. Also if it's slightly more reliable, maintenance costs per km should be less.

[SkiBum5.0]

Originally posted by flipstah


From what it sounds like, maintenance costs isn't a problem. Also if it's slightly more reliable, maintenance costs per km should be less.

I see what you are thinking, but you're confusing maintenance and repairs. You have to pay to maintain a car (oil changes, diff service, carbon clean-up on the 4.2, brake fluid change, coolant flush, belts). Maintaining an M6 and an R8 are going to be even for oil changes ($250+) and maybe tires, but things like brakes, diff service, and changing fluids is going to be higher on the R8.

My info is based on servicing e90 M series cars versus what I google'd for the R8's. I'm sure someone else can chime in on the R8 ownership costs.

Repairs are the result of a breakdown or part failure. Out of warranty, both the cars we are talking about are going to hurt when they break. I'd be willing to bet reliability per km is similar since M5's get DD'd more than R8's. Catastrophic failures are rare most likely on both cars (someone always knows someone who's had to replace a transmission or something crazy).

[beyond_ban]

The biggest negative about the 4.2L R8 is that it isn't nearly as fast as it looks so it can tend to be a poser exotic.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by killramos


A) the 235 is worth more than the M6.

B) neither the house nor the M6 is mine personally

C) yes I am a young engineer

Welcome to calgary. We have T shirts.

Ah I see. It's like I'm talking to myself from a few years back. Don't worry, you'll grow out of being a douche soon enough.

[killramos]

Originally posted by cjblair


Don't worry, you'll grow out of being a douche soon enough.

Based on your comment and informative contribution to this thread I won't hold my breath.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
AWD 400+hp mid engine you can actually get with 3 pedals is a poser exotic?


This is what I am talking about... everybody thinks the luxury land yachts with 500+hp and 315 tires are the pinnacle of performance because they can do 0-60 quickly, make a bunch of growly noises and hold a corner. Big deal, they are boring cars when it comes right down to it... something like an R8 would be way more fun and satisfying to own for people who still have a few decades before retirement.
I looked into buying an R8 before my CLK BS, borrowed one for a day, and it's pretty boring. 400hp NA works out to 320hp at our elevation, coupled with AWD the car felt slow as balls. It was basically a car where it had 3x the grip of the engine, which made the car as pedestrian as a Honda Accord. I would agree that it's a poser exotic.

The V10 was much better, but was more money than I was willing to spend.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

I've driven both. The R Tronic is basically smg. It pops itself in neutral all the time when stopped at a light which was annoying as fuck, so I actually preferred the manual with the R8. Haven't driven the facelift with DSG yet.

Anyways, I find flappy paddles way more fun, but that's just me.

[beyond_ban]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


AWD 400+hp mid engine you can actually get with 3 pedals is a poser exotic?


This is what I am talking about... everybody thinks the luxury land yachts with 500+hp and 315 tires are the pinnacle of performance because they can do 0-60 quickly, make a bunch of growly noises and hold a corner. Big deal, they are boring cars when it comes right down to it... something like an R8 would be way more fun and satisfying to own for people who still have a few decades before retirement.

Like rage said, it really is a boring vehicle. A friend of mine owns a 6 speed and i had a chance to drive it, but man was it ever a let down. On paper it looks like it should be fun, but realistically it just didn't feel special. It does attract a lot of looks though.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


AWD 400+hp mid engine you can actually get with 3 pedals is a poser exotic?


This is what I am talking about... everybody thinks the luxury land yachts with 500+hp and 315 tires are the pinnacle of performance because they can do 0-60 quickly, make a bunch of growly noises and hold a corner. Big deal, they are boring cars when it comes right down to it... something like an R8 would be way more fun and satisfying to own for people who still have a few decades before retirement.

Have driven the v8 and the v10 with old auto and they are boring. S4/5/6 with Sport diff is more fun. The old Tiptronic is annoying as fuck. They do look good tho.

[jaylo]

I would recommend spending a bit more and get an M4

[Sugarphreak]

...

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Beyond never lets me down with the LOL's :rofl:

Sounds like someone is jelly... :poosie:

[Team_Mclaren]

I have over 180k on my SMG E60M. Put over 90k on it in three years. Maintenance is fine but if shit breaks, you are in for a treat. I don't hate the SMG once you get used to it. Just gotta drive it accordingly. I love the fucking thing and it's hard to find a replacement for the power and fun it deliveries. I'd definitely consider a new F10M tho :poosie:

[Redlined_8000]

Keep the C63 man... Not worth it stepping up to the ///M douche level. :poosie:


I had a douchebag in a blue Dinan M5 v10 come screaming up on my car one day as I was exiting to the off ramp. He came at me full throttle and then hammered the brakes right before nearly rear ending me lol.... What a dick. Then proceeded to charge up the 60km/hr road at like 120 to show me whos boss... ///M Douche.


Also agreed about the V8 R8 to be poser exotic.

[Redlined_8000]

Originally posted by cjblair




@OP: Good call staying with the C63. I drove one for the first time a couple weeks ago, and it seems like it would be a kick ass DD. I'm going to try and pick one up in the spring.

It sucks for winter. Alignment is too aggressive and the car is very sketchy when driving on ice. Great summer car, not so much winter. I heard some people tune the alignment back to help this.

[rage2]

Yea, just get the rears re aligned for winter and the C63 kicks ass. The bonus is that it makes oversteer much more predictable in the summers for way cooler drift action. Plus it doubles tire life.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[killramos]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren
I have over 180k on my SMG E60M. Put over 90k on it in three years. Maintenance is fine but if shit breaks, you are in for a treat. I don't hate the SMG once you get used to it. Just gotta drive it accordingly. I love the fucking thing and it's hard to find a replacement for the power and fun it deliveries. I'd definitely consider a new F10M tho :poosie:

I will agree that you can learn to drive it well. Just don't let it shift itself, it really isn't good at it haha.

I was looking at the 6MT F10 that Calgary has in their showroom. 85 k certified though... :whipped:

Bit big for me to... I don't know if it would actually fit in my garage...

[bjstare]

Originally posted by Redlined_8000


It sucks for winter. Alignment is too aggressive and the car is very sketchy when driving on ice. Great summer car, not so much winter. I heard some people tune the alignment back to help this.

My parents are gone all winter, so on the worst of days I already swap my rwd car for my mom's forester or dad's duramax. I plan on keeping with tradition if I get a C63.



Originally posted by rage2
Yea, just get the rears re aligned for winter and the C63 kicks ass. The bonus is that it makes oversteer much more predictable in the summers for way cooler drift action. Plus it doubles tire life.

I'll make sure and check beyond for alignment info. I'd wager it's been posted at least once somewhere haha.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by beyond_ban
The biggest negative about the 4.2L R8 is that it isn't nearly as fast as it looks so it can tend to be a poser exotic.

I like some aspects of the R8, and that is one nice sounding 4.2 L V8..but you're right they aren't very fast. AWD sucks a lot of the power out same with auto transmission. I raced an S5 and it wasn't nearly as fast as I thought it would be once I hit 3rd gear in the ol' Z28. :burnout:

[flipstah]

2005 Conti GT:

http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Bentley/Continental+GT/Edmonton/Alberta/5_19888417_20080409075005281/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=1_15_14

2005 Audi A8L:

http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/a/Audi/A8/Calgary/Alberta/5_21860914_20070221112858031/?showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=5_15_7

Both W12, looks cool as fuck, AWD. Reliable as a flaky date. :rofl:

:hijack:

In all seriousness, an R8 would be a fun Calgary DD. Do it, baller. :bigpimp:

[shakalaka]

Haha I actually spoke to those Bentley guys. They are up here in Edmonton. The car is in great condition for the year. But I didn't feel like getting a car that was almost 10 years old already. Plus I can't even imagine what owning one of them out of warranty would be like so never pursued that option.

For people looking for toe in information. Search for my old thread that I made when I got the C63. I contains all the information and I went and had that done on my car a month after getting it. I think I had the guys at Integra Tire phone Rage to explain what exactly I was asking for. lol:rofl:

[sh0ko]

Originally posted by rage2
Yea, just get the rears re aligned for winter and the C63 kicks ass. The bonus is that it makes oversteer much more predictable in the summers for way cooler drift action. Plus it doubles tire life.


Rage

was this true for pre face lift cars? i drive a 2012+ and have no issues with the car without realignment. Just a curious question cuz i read in mbworld (but with no confirmation) that the 2012+ had some suspension tweaks to them

[rage2]

The alignment settings was my experience with pre-facelift cars. 2012+ facelift cars has some suspension tweaks, but I'm not sure if alignment specs were changed or not. They very well could be. I've never driven a facelifted C63 in the winter so I don't know.

The poor winter traction really only happens when it's ice. Anything over 80km/h the rear end tracks all over the place, it's like driving a boat. Which means it's only happening on the really cold days, say -20 on roads like Crowchild or Deerfoot.