To keep the Lexus or not? Your perspective welcome :)

[A790]

I've owned my '14 IS350 since July and have put on 4,600 km since then. That's averaging 836 km/month... not exactly a lot of driving.

The price of the car was $57,000ish (iirc) and we put down $15,000. We aren't underwater on it and have a fair amount of value on top of the loan amount at the moment.

The dilemma is this: why make a sizable car payment on a car that I barely use? Turns out I don't drive nearly as much as I thought I did, whereas my wife is miling up the Jeep as fast as she can (lol). The Lexus spends the vast majority of its time parked.

Now I'm starting to think that maybe it'd be a smart idea to sell the Lexus and get a used vehicle in the $10k range, pay for it in cash, and get rid of the car payment. Take the first year of "payments" that would have been made on the Lexus and put it into savings, and then you're laughing every other year after that.

We can afford the Lexus just fine and still save a good chunk of money, but I'd like to start putting more away so help accelerate some of my long-term financial goals.

Thoughts? Advice? I'm 28 and am just starting to gain appreciation for the "bigger picture" so if you've been where I am I'd love to hear your perspective.

Thanks!

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Is your license plate STAHP?

I have nothing else to add lol.

[A790]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
Is your license plate STAHP?

I have nothing else to add lol.
No. lol

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by A790

No. lol

Somebody has the same car as you with that plate on it lol. I was just curious cause I saw it last night.

[phreezee]

You have a 2.04 car vs. age ratio http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/what-is-your-car-vs-age-price/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387960&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1. :)

I personally don't care about what people think of my car and prefer to be debt free, invest, take nicer family vacations and pay off my mortgage. I'm hoping to only ever pay cash for cars going forward.

[J.M.]

I'd get rid of it. Pick up a used 10k car like you mentioned. I hate car payments lol.

[Sorath]

Cam, you probably break even if you sell that car right now. I would probably keep it until you get into an equity situation

[RX_EVOLV]

I'm in the same situation. I'm 30 and I got my Q50-S (~$58K) shortly after moving into my inner city house (I used to live in Breaside) earlier this year and a month later we moved office from being 20 mins away to only 7 min drive during rush hour. So now I'm making a fairly sizeable car payment for not a whole lot of driving. My gf also lives so close that I can drive over, pick herup, and get home all during a commercial break.

I'm going to downgrade early next year once I come back from Asia this Xmas to get a cheaper SUV and save on car payment. Probably going to throw it into the mortgage instead to accelerate my medium term plan of rebuilding the house. Like you, I can afford the car just fine but on a cost per use basis, it just doesn't make sense.

[flipstah]

I'm in the same boat. The Golf eats up a sizeable chunk but for me, it brings a delight whenever I drive it on those random days.

Is the smile worth more than the car payments? If so, keep it. If not, sell.

[BrknFngrs]

While you might not be under water on the loan due to the large downpayment; any idea how much of your downpayment would be vaporized if you sold it right now?

[Phihalo]

Car is never a good asset allocation because we all know that 99% of them depreciate no matter how you keep it or the km you put on it. So if you are looking at a PURE financial perspective, your thinking is 100% correct. Cut the loss and put the money else where (GIC/ETF whatever)

But.

There's always a saying "Buy it while you can afford it". I see that you have no kids at the moment, why not enjoy the luxury items that you can afford now and think about getting something cheaper later. What I mean is, once you have kids, your priority shifts and you might not have that chance of owning a nice car (or you'd spend it on family instead on a car)

TL;DR - Keep it, you are still young and don't have much responsibilites :thumbsup:

[A790]

Originally posted by flipstah
I'm in the same boat. The Golf eats up a sizeable chunk but for me, it brings a delight whenever I drive it on those random days.
Thing is, the sizable car payment I make is less than 10% of my net income. We can afford our lifestyle just fine with or without the car, including saving about 25% of our net income.

I'm just having a really hard time justfying the expense considering the lack of use (or cost per use as RX_EVOLV put it).

Maybe I'll hang on to it until the one-year anniversary and see how we're doing. It does kick ass in the snow/ice thanks to AWD and the winters Tirebob set me up with :)


Originally posted by Phihalo
There's always a saying "Buy it while you can afford it". I see that you have no kids at the moment, why not enjoy the luxury items that you can afford now and think about getting something cheaper later. What I mean is, once you have kids, your priority shifts and you might not have that chance of owning a nice car (or you'd spend it on family instead on a car)
We do not want kids and I plan to get a vasectomy when I turn 30. :)

[benyl]

Haha, go ahead. sell it.

In 3 months, when you get the itch for a new car, you will sell your $10K beater and get something else with or without a payment.

The issue is not the car payment or how much you use your car. The issue is your ADHD with cars. Fix that first.

I used to get a new car every 2 years or when my vehicles hit 50,000 kms.

Because I ride my bike to work, my F150 is now 4.5 years old (shocking) and has 49,800 kms. I'm due. But I am going to drive it until it dies as I have my ADHD under control (so I think anyway).

[Mibz]

Originally posted by benyl
Haha, go ahead. sell it.

In 3 months, when you get the itch for a new car, you will sell your $10K beater and get something else with or without a payment.

The issue is not the car payment or how much you use your car. The issue is your ADHD with cars. Fix that first.

I used to get a new car every 2 years or when my vehicles hit 50,000 kms.

Because I ride my bike to work, my F150 is now 4.5 years old (shocking) and has 49,800 kms. I'm due. But I am going to drive it until it dies as I have my ADHD under control (so I think anyway). Translation: "I had a kid and things changed"

[Sorath]

Originally posted by flipstah
I'm in the same boat. The Golf eats up a sizeable chunk but for me, it brings a delight whenever I drive it on those random days.

Is the smile worth more than the car payments? If so, keep it. If not, sell.

How much? very interested pm me or fb me!

sorry for derail!

[benyl]

Originally posted by Mibz
Translation: "I had a kid and things changed"

Nope, got older and wiser.

[A790]

Originally posted by benyl
Haha, go ahead. sell it.

In 3 months, when you get the itch for a new car, you will sell your $10K beater and get something else with or without a payment.

The issue is not the car payment or how much you use your car. The issue is your ADHD with cars. Fix that first.

I used to get a new car every 2 years or when my vehicles hit 50,000 kms.

Because I ride my bike to work, my F150 is now 4.5 years old (shocking) and has 49,800 kms. I'm due. But I am going to drive it until it dies as I have my ADHD under control (so I think anyway).
Very good points. You know me pretty well. How does one fix their car ADHD?

[Neil4Speed]

Definitely sell, thats a deadweight depreciating asset... Unless, you LOVE each one of those 836km's every month it so much that its worth it to you. I don't how how much your payments are per month, but take that and divide by the number of KM to see how much your short trips are costing you.

Why not buy a older ~08 IS250 AWD and achive a similar amount of utility and have zero car payments.

This is the main reason why I keep my car and havn't upgraded yet. Still really enjoy driving it, costs me almost nothing in depreciation now, absolutely reliable, and very cheap to own and maintain. I put on the same amount of mileage as well ~800km a month.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by benyl
Nope, got old. Well, we can agree on that.

[E46..sTyLez]

#firstworldproblems haha
Just go with your gut. If you are good financially either way, then it comes down to personal choice.
I thought I could last with just one vehicle in the family after I sold my Sti, and it took all of about a month for me to give in to the itch and buy something else.
As a true car lover, you need a car that you love in the garage, whether you drive it often or not.

Just my 2 cents.

[benyl]

Originally posted by A790

Very good points. You know me pretty well. How does one fix their car ADHD?

It's like an addiction. Got to wean yourself off the idea of getting something else. Withdrawal sucks. You will get moody. But in the end, you will be happy you kept the Lexus.

I don't think you care about the car payment. You are just using it as an excuse to get something different.

[E46..sTyLez]

Originally posted by A790
sell the Lexus and get a used vehicle in the $10k range

There are a lot of RHD options in the $10k range.. :D jk

[realazy]

Well this a car forum and we all spend money on things we love. Is the enjoyment out of it worth the payment? What if you consider it a hobby instead? Is it worth it then?

[A790]

Originally posted by benyl
I don't think you care about the car payment. You are just using it as an excuse to get something different.
No dude, this is really a case of "I could take that $10,000/yr and put it into... bathroom renos, kitchen renos, investments, etc., etc.

Truth is that I've never been one to drive the snot out of my cars. I rarely speed. I rarely "gun it". I don't think I'd be happy with a Camry or something, but I can see myself enjoying a Sonota/Optima turbo (or similar). Lots of choice in the $15k range if I don't mind getting something 3-5 years old.

I really liked my 2012 Optima turbo because it had everything I wanted for $300/month, didn't feel slow, etc. The wife, however, kept hitting shit with it so we traded it in and got her something 9" off the ground so she would stop running things over. lol

[SkiBum5.0]

Going to be a tough time to sell that new of a car. Had the same situation this year with my 4Runnner. It will be very tough to sell it privately because people will compare it with a brand new one. Also, typical buyer will not be able to finance it without a dealer subsidized rate.

[ercchry]

You've already taken the big hit in depreciation... keep it and if you have car ADD stop buying new!!!! Buy 2-3yr old and in cash... can swap rides every 6 months if you want and not lose much at all. but now you are stuck, get your value out of it and sell in 2 years... if you can last that long :rofl:

But i did the same as you are planning to... its not all rainbows and sunshine though. Repairs add up, and i am often building new cars online. But i know as long as i dont actually step foot in a dealer i wont buy anything

[flipstah]

Originally posted by Sorath


How much? very interested pm me or fb me!

sorry for derail!

Not selling. :poosie:

Smile>$

[01RedDX]

.

[Boosted131]

I'd never make payments on a vehicle /toy. It's making it way easier to save for a house.. Everything I own was paid cash

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by ercchry
You've already taken the big hit in depreciation...



Originally posted by 01RedDX
That $15K DP is as good as gone. Bad time of year combined with current economic uncertainty makes it a very tough sell. The car is not even broken in yet you will have a tough time recovering even the black book value. Willing to go $40K? There are people who specialize in buying distressed baller assets at times like these.



THIS, like it or not, you already lost all that money. Might as well keep it now that depreciation should slow a bit.

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by Boosted131
I'd never make payments on a vehicle /toy. It's making it way easier to save for a house.. Everything I own was paid cash

arrrgg... no its not...

if you can leveage your vehicles/toys in a low interest loan, why would you pay for it in cash. Unless your income cant support the mortgage AND payments for your vehicle(s).

What you have done essentially is taking money for the downpayment on the house and spending it on depreciating assets.

[Aleks]

This is why I lease all my new cars. I know in 4 months I will want to get something else. I wait until someone takes my lease over with no incentive. So losses are like 1-2 grand at most.

I'm on my 24th vehicle now. :cry:

[Boosted131]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


arrrgg... no its not...

if you can leveage your vehicles/toys in a low interest loan, why would you pay for it in cash. Unless your income cant support the mortgage AND payments for your vehicle(s).

What you have done essentially is taking money for the downpayment on the house and spending it on depreciating assets. I've seen it enough times, buddies buy a quad, truck, bike etc and have to give it up because they can't afford payments plus their other expenses

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by Boosted131
I've seen it enough times, buddies buy a quad, truck, bike etc and have to give it up because they can't afford payments plus their other expenses

Thats on payment, if you are saving for a Downpayment on a house, you want to keep as much cash as possible.

Thats what I meant by "unless" if your income cant afford having both the mortgage and vehicle payment.

[E46..sTyLez]

Financing makes perfect sense sometimes.
For instance, if you have $100,000 in a portfolio making 5% interest, and Audi has a 0.9% financing on a $70,000 car, financing would save a ton.
Your portfolio is making more interest than you are paying, so you wouldn't want to take that money out to pay cash. Comprende?

[Strider]

For a different perspective, don't look at it in terms of payments.

Look at it in terms of cost of ownership from here on in. Whatever depreciation hit has already occurred is a sunk cost.

Come up with a reasonable current market value and forecast a future value, divide the difference in value by the number of months and ask yourself whether that amount is worth the enjoyment you get out of the 800km that you do drive monthly.

Owning a nice car is never a wise financial decision (unless you find a rare unicorn that appreciates, or doesn't depreciate)... but we can't all be driving Corollas.

[ShermanEF9]

Originally posted by A790

Very good points. You know me pretty well. How does one fix their car ADHD?

Easy. Buy a truck. Not kidding.

You'll be too busy doing truck things for yourself and others to consider a smaller vehicle.

[ichewyou]

Sell it and go test drive every once in a while. That should make up the 836 km. imagine all the different cars you can drive!! and how many angry sales :)

[benyl]

Originally posted by ShermanEF9


Easy. Buy a truck. Not kidding.

You'll be too busy doing truck things for yourself and others to consider a smaller vehicle.

Haha, yup.

Only reason I haven't gotten rid of the F150 is because I can get big things.

[01RedDX]

.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by A790

Thing is, the sizable car payment I make is less than 10% of my net income. We can afford our lifestyle just fine with or without the car, including saving about 25% of our net income.


You keep the damn car and enjoy it unless if having a nice car is no longer your thing.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[max_boost]

Once sugarphreak has done the math, you can trust him. I always trust a cheap guy when it comes to savings. :D :love: :thumbsup:

[E46..sTyLez]

Originally posted by max_boost
Once sugarphreak has done the math, you can trust him. I always trust a cheap guy when it comes to savings. :D :love: :thumbsup:

Lol, solid strategy! It's like if you want to know the easiest way to get something done, ask the laziest person you know how they would do it haha

[shakalaka]

I am in a similar boat Cam and know exactly how you feel. I just turned 28 this year and picked up my AMG when I turned 27 and got called to the Bar. Prior to that I had gotten myself into the C350 with around $15K down. As time goes on and the more I think about it, it feels like such a stupid decision financially. I had a free and clear 350Z that I sold and got the C350 and then I further extended my loan a year later to get the C63. In retrospect I should have kept the 350Z and drove it for a few more years and then thought about upgrading but I was in a rush to get into what I really wanted. But now that I have already done this, it makes less sense going back, taking the loss and dropping to something that I wouldn't like as much. I have issues with vehicle ADHD to the point where I am already contemplating selling the C63 (been just over a year) and getting myself into the GTR or something along the lines. I can easily afford either of those so that is not the issue.

But the more I think about it and speak with my brother (who's in finance) the more I feel that doing it would be such an idiot move. As I get older and have started putting money in savings and seeing it grow I am started to feel a little different. I like seeing the number get bigger instead of spending everything I get. I have decided, or at least I am trying really damn hard to ride out my C63 until the end of warranty period (3 years) at least and then sell it privately and get something else. I absolutely love the car and enjoy every minute in it but that stupid ADHD takes me in completely different directions at times. Now I could go on the extreme end and sell the car all together, pay out the loan and get something around 20K or so in cash without the hassle of payments but like Benyl mentioned, I know within months I will feel like I made the biggest mistake of my life by downgrading and that my enjoyment of life has dropped significantly.

So my suggestion to you would be to keep what you have now, ride out the term and make sure to not switch to something better prior to your term expiring and you selling the car privately. Of course this all applies if you can afford it, which you say you can. This is what I plan on doing and I really hope my ADHD doesn't get the best of me. lol

EDIT: On practical side of things, as someone mentioned selling it that new for the price that you'd like will be quite a hassle as well. So by the time you've ran your term, the car will be more affordable and sell easily. Also, my situation might be a little different than yours because I got an amazing financing rate and my payments are peanuts for a vehicle such as this. That may not apply to you, but if you say they are less than 10% of your income, then you can definitely afford to keep it. The only way I would be selling is, if I could take out my entire $15K downpayment out of the sale price and walk away without losing anything.

[A790]

Lots of good posts in here. The wife has told me that she doesn't understand why I'd sell it and to keep it. I think I'll wait a while before deciding to do anything- see how I'm feeling summer 2016 maybe.

Thanks everyone :)

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by A790
Lots of good posts in here. The wife has told me that she doesn't understand why I'd sell it and to keep it. I think I'll wait a while before deciding to do anything- see how I'm feeling summer 2016 maybe.

Thanks everyone :)

Good idea. As already mentioned, it would probably be difficult to sell privately, as it's "too new"

I tried selling my 2005 Mustang GT in 2006, and didn't get one person to look at it. I ended up getting more from the dealership as a trade-in than what I was asking private-sale :nut:

[flipstah]

Just drive more on the weekend; go out to the mountains, have dinner in Canmore or something.

Make it fun! :)

[HiTempguy1]

How does someone only drive 800kms in a month? I drive 400-600 in a week, and I don't think I do that much :dunno:

Its good the OP is keeping his car though. After the sunk depreciation costs, it would have been pointless to get rid of the car so soon, might as well enjoy it.

[ercchry]

sign up to be an uber driver :rofl:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
How does someone only drive 800kms in a month? I drive 400-600 in a week, and I don't think I do that much :dunno:


That's about how much I drive too. Fill up every 2 weeks, and typically 400-450kms.

Another benefit of not living in the suburbs.

Edit: It also helps only having to drive to work 7 days in a two week period, instead of the typically 10.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by ercchry
sign up to be an uber driver :rofl:

LOL that should be interesting.

[bigbadboss101]

I was going to say man you go thru a lot of cars!! In most cases one lose $ everytime they sell and buy another. It is always good to have some cash on hand if you want to go on a trip, use for emergency, help out a family member, or save for kid's education etc. A $10-15k car is just fine.

In am 45 now and in my previous years I have owned about 22 cars. The 2011 X3 I had was ~$64,000. Financed it for 1.5 years and sold it back to BMW. Would it be nice to drive a nice car? Yes. Do I need it? No. For me I can only justify it if I take car of my family, my parents, and to a lesser degree my siblings. Then if we have $ left we can use it on 'extra' goods, may that be vacation, car, toys, clothes, house, and so on.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
How does someone only drive 800kms in a month? I drive 400-600 in a week, and I don't think I do that much :dunno:

Its good the OP is keeping his car though. After the sunk depreciation costs, it would have been pointless to get rid of the car so soon, might as well enjoy it.

I drive about 180-200 kms a week. Under 1000 a month usually. When you have a gas guzzler, it makes way more sense to have the GF drive us in her hyundai :angel: 30 mpg city vs 12-15 mpg city haha.

[benyl]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
How does someone only drive 800kms in a month? I drive 400-600 in a week, and I don't think I do that much :dunno:

Its good the OP is keeping his car though. After the sunk depreciation costs, it would have been pointless to get rid of the car so soon, might as well enjoy it.

I'm lucky if I hit 500 km / month.

Being only 10kms from downtown is the key. My work commute adds up to about 400 kms / month and that is if I drive everyday. In the summer, if I ride everyday, that drops to zero.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm under 800km a month for sure, and I drive downtown every day. I'm about 11 km round-trip.

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I'm under 800km a month for sure, and I drive downtown every day. I'm about 11 km round-trip.

You can pick up great daily drivers for cheap, that do as good a job at getting you around as any brand new car. And it makes even more sense when you barely drive it.

To date, the Lexus IS300 has been my best pick-up to date. Paid $6500 for it, low kms, amazing condition. It'll be reliable for years to come and is the most powerful, fun to drive and luxurious daily driver I have owned. With the wide array of reliable and good used cars on the market, I just can't see myself buying new again. Plus the brand new cars I really want are 10x more, and definitely don't feel like they're 10x more worth it. It might take a bit of time, patience and luck to find a good used car, but it's worth it if you can.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict


and is the most powerful,

you had me till here :rofl:

but yes, used lexus for a daily all the way

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by ercchry


you had me till here :rofl:

but yes, used lexus for a daily all the way

It's all relative, especially when you come from 4 consecutive Honda daily drivers. At least the IS300 has torque and rwd.

[4doorj]

I have these issues too hahaha.
I've downgraded to save money.
It sucks and I sell the cheaper car and go back to the car I want.
Its a damn vicious cycle.

Longest I lasted was 2 years, it was hard! Car ADHD:banghead:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 4doorj

Longest I lasted was 2 years, it was hard! Car ADHD:banghead:

Isn't that the point of leasing? A co-worker does it right, he leases two vehicles (for him and his wife), and the leases are staggered. She doesn't care what she drives, so every 18 months he has a new car, and the old one goes to his wife.

[max_boost]

If you want help putting mileage lend it to me for deliveries haha

[A790]

Originally posted by max_boost
If you want help putting mileage lend it to me for deliveries haha
Pay me in salt and pepper squid? :)

[Shlade]

Sounds like a boring car and that's really why you're wanting to sell it and barely drive it... If you bought a car you actually liked youd use every excuse to drive it

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by Shlade
Sounds like a boring car and that's really why you're wanting to sell it and barely drive it... If you bought a car you actually liked youd use every excuse to drive it

This. I had the same problem with my BRZ all year, now that is supercharged no regrets, no wanting to sell it anymore.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
If you bought it new, the depreciation from rolling it off the lot is enough reason to keep it for at least a few years.

Think of it this way, these numbers might vary of course but this is mostly just to illustrate how your losses will average down:

If you sell it now with 4,600kms on it... you will get 50K
If you sell it next summer with 8,000Km’s on it... you will get 48K
If you sell it in three years from now with 24,000Km’s on it... you will get 42K

In other words:

So if you sell it right away... it will cost you about 7000$, or 1165$ per month
So if you sell it next summer, your average cost for depreciation on it will be about 7500$ per year, or 625$ per month
So if you keep it for two years, your average cost for depreciation on it will be about 5000$ per year or 415$ per month


You are already pre-paid for at least a few years, might as well enjoy it

Concept is correct but I really doubt you can get $42 for a 3 year old IS350.

More like $35 to $37 if dealer is charging $39.

http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/Lexus/IS/Calgary/Alberta/5_22413903_2005928172135706/?ursrc=pl&urp=3&urm=7&showcpo=ShowCPO

[A790]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Concept is correct but I really doubt you can get $42 for a 3 year old IS350.

More like $35 to $37 if dealer is charging $39.

http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/a/Lexus/IS/Calgary/Alberta/5_22413903_2005928172135706/?ursrc=pl&urp=3&urm=7&showcpo=ShowCPO
Tough to tell. That's the last model of the IS350 so there may be additional depreciation tied to it.

Either way, I'm going to hold on to the car until at least its two year anniversary. Then we'll see how I'm feeling about it.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Speaking of car ADD, I've owned 6 different vehicles this year alone including the same car...twice!

[relyt92]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
Speaking of car ADD, I've owned 6 different vehicles this year alone including the same car...twice! Damn, I thought I was bad with 5 cars in 6 years lol.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Originally posted by relyt92
Damn, I thought I was bad with 5 cars in 6 years lol.

I got my license 8 years ago, I've owned 2 SUVs, 1 ATV, 1 Trailer and 8 cars.

[A790]

43 cars or motorcycles in 12 years...

[Shlade]

We're all so cool with how many cars and bikes we've owned 18 cars 4 bikes hehe

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Shlade
We're all so cool with how many cars and bikes we've owned 18 cars 4 bikes hehe :werd: might as well list the number of girls you notched up too. lol :rofl:

[A790]

Originally posted by max_boost
:werd: might as well list the number of girls you notched up too. lol :rofl:
Knocked up, bro. Knocked up.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by A790

Knocked up, bro. Knocked up.
No, I think he means "notched" as in, "put another notch in the bedpost last night dudes, high five!"

[max_boost]

Originally posted by A790

Knocked up, bro. Knocked up. Oh damn. lol :rofl:

[A790]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow

No, I think he means "notched" as in, "put another notch in the bedpost last night dudes, high five!"
I thought that might be the case as well, but...


Originally posted by max_boost
Oh damn. lol :rofl:
:rofl:

[01RedDX]

.

[max_boost]

^^^

Yes Yes :werd: we know lol A790 just escalated things haha:rofl: