Why don't cars have supplementary electric heaters?

[Seth1968]

I admit it. Like many others, when it's very cold I'll idle my vehicle until it's at least somewhat warm. It wastes gas, and doesn't help the environment either. So why don't cars have an auxiliary electric heater? That is, just until the rad fluid is warm enough to provide heat.

A 12V, 300W electric heater would draw about 25 amps, and heat the inside of the vehicle to a comfortable level in a minute or two.

Lay it on me. What "obvious" am I missing:)

[G-ZUS]

Add one on?

[killramos]

Mine does :bigpimp:

Most BMW's have an electric coil in the windshield vents. Quickest way to make it warm inside the car is to use full front defrost.

I think the obvious you are missing is cost, cars operate on such skinny margins of competitiveness they cannot afford the little things?

:dunno:

[rage2]

I drove a Tesla S recently in cold weather. The Tesla has electric heaters. It took about 6 or 7 mins before there was any heat or airflow. There's also a very distinct smell, like burnt electric smell.

So yea, a car engine + heat exchanger will heat up faster than an electric heater.

[Alak]

New Diesel fords have this. Its optional. Pretty much instant heat.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2
I drove a Tesla S recently in cold weather. The Tesla has electric heaters. It took about 6 or 7 mins before there was any heat or airflow. There's also a very distinct smell, like burnt electric smell.

So yea, a car engine + heat exchanger will heat up faster than an electric heater.

yea i should note that i don't think it works particularly well and i usually just leave it on auto...

[zipdoa]

TDI owners use this:

http://www.frostheater.com/

[realazy]

Just buy a bigger engine! Bigger = More Heat!

My 335 has warm air in the front vents within minutes of starting up the car (without the defrost on, that killramos mentioned).

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by Alak
New Diesel fords have this. Its optional. Pretty much instant heat. I haven't tested it out, but I believe it has to be packaged with a high-output alternator as well. That would be a big detriment to it's use on cars.

[rage2]

Originally posted by realazy
Just buy a bigger engine! Bigger = More Heat!

My 335 has warm air in the front vents within minutes of starting up the car (without the defrost on, that killramos mentioned).
Pretty much. My V8's in the winter parked outside at dinner gives me heat within a minute without warming the car up.

The Ford system is called Rapid heat, it's not really instant. It just helps heat the cabin because diesel engines takes longer to heat up than gas engines.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2

Pretty much. My V8's in the winter parked outside at dinner gives me heat within a minute without warming the car up.

Same reason i don't need a garage heater lol and i have a straight 6!

Heat capacity ftw.

[rage2]

Oh I still have a garage heater set to 25C. That's instant heat right there.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by rage2
I drove a Tesla S recently in cold weather. The Tesla has electric heaters. It took about 6 or 7 mins before there was any heat or airflow. There's also a very distinct smell, like burnt electric smell.

So yea, a car engine + heat exchanger will heat up faster than an electric heater.

Fucker:)

[killramos]

Originally posted by rage2
Oh I still have a garage heater set to 25C. That's instant heat right there.

Rucker that's warmer than I keep my house

:rofl:

And you realize who the true ballers are!

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Seth1968
I admit it. Like many others, when it's very cold I'll idle my vehicle until it's at least somewhat warm. It wastes gas, and doesn't help the environment either. So why don't cars have an auxiliary electric heater? That is, just until the rad fluid is warm enough to provide heat.

A 12V, 300W electric heater would draw about 25 amps, and heat the inside of the vehicle to a comfortable level in a minute or two.

Lay it on me. What "obvious" am I missing:)

They really aren't that efficient. When I daily drove my old '75 chevy p/u, and had no garage space, I installed 120v 900w interior heater. I would plug it in overnight when it was below -20. Even being left on for 8+ hours, it took the edge off the cold, but really didn't do that much. I still needed to wear gloves to drive. Too much heat loss through a badly insulated truck.

Also, 25 amps is a MASSIVE draw on an alternator. A typical small car only has 60-70 amps.

[Darell_n]

Maximum heating rate (assuming the same as a/c cooling) on my little Subaru converts to 2763 watts. This would take around 197 amps and probably be a little hard on the alternator belt.

[Canucks3322]

A bit of topic but I just looked online for cordless blow dryers but can't find a place local that has them.... anyone know where to buy these.... our even how our of possible to plug in a blow dryer in your car?

[firebane]

Purchase one of these guys if you want quick warmth :P

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-13100-Aluminum-Circulating-Heater/dp/B000BO8X9K

[AE92_TreunoSC]

Corollas and Prius's have electric vent heaters :P Cost is important as is fuel economy. Most of the world doesn't live in our climate sadly so they do not understand we negate any fuel savings on the alternator load by warming our cars up for 15 minutes in the cold.

I don't need vent preheaters, I need a damn steering heater, my next car WILL have it.

[killramos]

Originally posted by AE92_TreunoSC
Corollas and Prius's have electric vent heaters :P Cost is important as is fuel economy. Most of the world doesn't live in our climate sadly so they do not understand we negate any fuel savings on the alternator load by warming our cars up for 15 minutes in the cold.

I don't need vent preheaters, I need a damn steering heater, my next car WILL have it.

Best feature ever. A lot of audis don't have it and it really gets in the way of an s4 being the ultimate winter car for me.

[01RedDX]

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[corsvette]

Originally posted by zipdoa
TDI owners use this:

http://www.frostheater.com/

Neat. Think I'll get one. :thumbsup:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
I think remote start makes electric heaters redundant anyway since my primary concern is for the engine and fluids to be at reasonable operating temperature before driving.

A car sitting idling for 15 minutes "warming up" is worse for the engine than idling for 2 minutes and then driving.

[CD007]

Don't think engine size has anything to do with it.
My work vehicle is a Ford Transit Connect. It has the quickest, warmest heat I've ever seen in a car.
And my wife's Suzuki SX4 is pretty good too.

On the other hand, my Hummer H2 takes brutally long and doesn't heat up well at all.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


A car sitting idling for 15 minutes "warming up" is worse for the engine than idling for 2 minutes and then driving.

That's the common thought, but is there any empirical evidence to prove or disprove such?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Also, 25 amps is a MASSIVE draw on an alternator. A typical small car only has 60-70 amps.

Any idea approximately how many amps are drawn from a small car with the lights on?

[Cos]

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[01RedDX]

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[mazdavirgin]

Worst idea ever. :nut: Seriously an electric heater? That's like the worst possible way to heat the car. Not to mention most "small" electric heaters draw around 1000Watts(Conservative most peoples small space heaters use a lot more wattage think 1500-2000Watts). So a draw of around 80Amps far more than most alternators are capable of delivering and guaranteeing you will kill your battery and electrical system in your car in short order.

Not to mention the raw inefficiency of burn gas -> alternator -> resistor -> heat. A huge reason why electric cars don't do well in cold temps is simply how inefficient electricity is as a heating mechanism and the ludicrous power draw required means the distance you can travel is just simply demolished.

You want a good heating solution?

http://www.webasto.com/us/markets-products/truck/heating-systems/

[Alak]

Where do you get your draw of 80 amps? A small space heater only draws about 15 ~ 20 amps. Fords supplimental cab heater isnt even that much. (Going back to earlier comments, Im a few days late) The ford system gives you air warmer than ambient, and it helps to produce adequate heat when you are at idle and your engine is cooling down. It works fairly well.


Best thing you can do for your engine in winter is put Zero weight oil in it. At minus 25 or below it can take minutes for 10w30 to warm up enough to start circulating through the engine properly. Your engine doesn't turn over slow because its cold, the crankshaft is trying to cut a path through the oil in the pan.

[Seth1968]

^ I've almost bailed on this thread.

80 Amps and 1500 Watts?

It's a vehicles interior, not a garage.

[relyt92]

Originally posted by Alak
Where do you get your draw of 80 amps? A small space heater only draws about 15 ~ 20 amps. Fords supplimental cab heater isnt even that much. (Going back to earlier comments, Im a few days late) The ford system gives you air warmer than ambient, and it helps to produce adequate heat when you are at idle and your engine is cooling down. It works fairly well.


Best thing you can do for your engine in winter is put Zero weight oil in it. At minus 25 or below it can take minutes for 10w30 to warm up enough to start circulating through the engine properly. Your engine doesn't turn over slow because its cold, the crankshaft is trying to cut a path through the oil in the pan. He was talking how most smaller household heaters run 800-1000 watts which would put you at about 80amps on a 12v system. The ford one you're talking about would be a 24v system.

[Seth1968]

Except to heat up a car cabin wouldn't even be close to such draw.

[Maxt]

My old sprinters had a standalone webasto style heater to warm the engine and interior, when it actually worked being Mercedes-Benz and all....:rolleyes:.. It quit a number of times and I had to just leave it running overnight, but diesels don't generate much heat just idling so it was more just to make sure the truck was drivable than warm on the inside.
It was neat that it was timer programmable, nice option to have, wish my Cummins had it.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by Seth1968
I admit it. Like many others, when it's very cold I'll idle my vehicle until it's at least somewhat warm. It wastes gas, and doesn't help the environment either. So why don't cars have an auxiliary electric heater? That is, just until the rad fluid is warm enough to provide heat.

A 12V, 300W electric heater would draw about 25 amps, and heat the inside of the vehicle to a comfortable level in a minute or two.

Lay it on me. What "obvious" am I missing:)
Your civic's 12V auxiliary fuse is 15 A. You'll blow it. That's what you're missing :P

Going with a 150-180W heater is going to take longer to heat up your cabin than just letting the car warm up.

[Alak]

Originally posted by relyt92
He was talking how most smaller household heaters run 800-1000 watts which would put you at about 80amps on a 12v system. The ford one you're talking about would be a 24v system.

That's true I never considered a 12V system (Im not an electrician).


Do you have any information on the cab heater being 24V? I'd like to see how they wired that into a 12V system and pull that those kind of amps on a 12V alternator.

[Aleks]

Hyundai has this as an accessory:

http://www.airporthyundai.ca/Content/Accessories/000AM-472001-2.JPG
Interior cabin heater.

[zieg]

Someone in my building runs a cord through the door and leaves a space heater running inside his truck all day. :rofl:

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Seth1968
^ I've almost bailed on this thread.

80 Amps and 1500 Watts?

It's a vehicles interior, not a garage.

:nut: To heat a garage you would be looking at way more than 1500watts. Home heaters for a single room are rated at greater than 1500watts. Do you really find those things heat up the room quickly if the room is cold?

Turn on a 300watt heater in the average car cab when it's -20C and you would likely have to wait hours for it to no longer be sub zero. Your math just doesn't add up you are free to check it for yourself the average car cab is going to need at bare minimum ~1000watts to heat.

[mikestypes]

Get a 120v interior car heater like a little buddy from any parts store and run the cord to the front of the car. Plug it into an electrical outlet just like a block heater. I would suggest a timer so your are only running the 900 watts for an hour or two before you leave for work.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/automotive/interior-auto-accessories/winter-accessories/automotive-accessories/little-buddy-120v-car-warmer-0303405p.html?utm_campaign=bazaarvoice&utm_medium=SearchVoice&utm_source=AskAndAnswer&utm_content=Default

These are common in my old home town of Winnipeg.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
Someone in my building runs a cord through the door and leaves a space heater running inside his truck all day. :rofl:
LOL.. I'm surprised I don't see this more often at places with plug-ins. Would work well for hatchbacks like a Fit or something. Back into the space, put a little 1000W space heater in the back and plug it into the outlet, close hatch. Win! :D

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


:nut: To heat a garage you would be looking at way more than 1500watts. Home heaters for a single room are rated at greater than 1500watts. Do you really find those things heat up the room quickly if the room is cold?

Turn on a 300watt heater in the average car cab when it's -20C and you would likely have to wait hours for it to no longer be sub zero. Your math just doesn't add up you are free to check it for yourself the average car cab is going to need at bare minimum ~1000watts to heat.

Math or reality.

Pick one.

[TurboMedic]

My diesel Jeep has the electric heat in the defrost too....works well!

[Darell_n]

I use to run an 800w heater in my little single cab mini truck all day at school and it wouldn't even keep the frost off all the glass at -20*C. Running the engine for 180 seconds was more effective.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Math or reality.

Pick one.

They are one and the same.

[R154]

http://www.webasto.com/us/markets-products/off-highway/heating-systems/

I run a 1 webasto coolant heater. It burns Diesel and heats my coolant to 155c in 3.5 minutes with an average of less then .1L diesel in -20c. Whole system is controlled by its own computer that programmed to operate on time intervals, or command from my ecu (start single when I auto start my truck). it has a powerful pump to circulate. Besides is sounds bad ass, like a jet airplane. has its own little exhaust.

I also run a webasto (farm truck) heater to blast warm air in the cabin. Combined with the coolant heater operating and the vehicle idling it takes less then 3 minutes of idling to heat my seats and cabin. My heated seats take longer to warm up.

With that said, I spend 4K on heaters and easily 10hrs making brackets, mounting them, wiring them in and plumbing a small diesel tank.

I cant live without them now.

My next winter car will inherit my heaters, but it was such a pain making the whole system work and getting it to automate with one touch.

The webasto ecu does provide for temp deployment, but thats just wasteful, continuous keeping my coolant or cabin at temperature all day everyday.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


They are one and the same.

Touche.