Home and Surveillance Systems?

[Toma]

So I want to put up 2 to 5 outside cameras on a couple properties, don't want to spend a bunch of money, but I want "decent".

The common stuff I have been able to find reviews on, the "960h" "dvd quality", the stuff memory express or future shop sells etc seems to get "bad" reviews, like poor facial recognition at even 20 feet or so....

But without actual video or reviews from people I "know", not sure which way to go.

Given that 1080p dash cams are so cheap, is there cheaper way you guys have done? Maybe a "DIY" using a computer and a hard drive? What cameras do you use? Power over ethernet seems like the way to go, but the cameras seems pricey....

What do you have experience with? Would you recognize a person at say 30 feet day/night etc?

Thanks,

[AllGoNoShow]

I only have a little bit of experience with 3 different smaller systems then I compare with video from my dash cam like you were saying.... the 'home' or small commercial systems are disappointing. Maybe its the few brands I have seen, but one system was purchase under the 'best of the best' 100k+ in tools to protect, no expense spared. That system has failed twice now and in the times i need it for license plates or faces, you can't get them due to low picture quality, low lighting at night, wrong angles etc. I believe this is why when you see gas stations closed, they are still 100% fully lit inside, the cameras are just absolutely useless in low light conditions. Full lighting, inside during business hours, etc.. etc.. , no problem most of them will do the job and you can ID your person/contents with no issue.

The cameras in question include infrared LED's for night vision but its all in the mounting, distances and lighting I think, it is just too far from the area being watched to successfully have the IR light anything up properly, it just helps everything glow a little more.

Dash cam 1080p hands down 3x better than in home surveillance footage backed up onto USB stick in its rawest format it would give me. I consider myself a little bit of a techie and can normally figure this shit out and these videos make me want to throw the camera against the wall, the $70 chinese dash cam blows these $200-300 IR cameras quality out of the water.

More than anything, if you think you need 4 cameras, get 8 or 10, and double your coverage. Once you have 4 installed you find all your blind/dead spots and kick yourself because now your system is way to small to handle what you truly need. If you can get the cameras closer to faces or cars/street for plate/activities then that will work better as well, cheating by getting bigger area covered in the picture is going to back fire when you need the quality. Also double up your angles, if your covering a moving road from one side of your house, cover it the other way from the other side, that way if the moving vehicles plate you need you can't ID with one camera due to angle, hopefully there is a chance it is on the other angle.

[blairtruck]

i have a 5 camera IP setup running Blue Iris securty software. love it now thats its all setup

i got 2 of these http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/Products_show.asp?id=9130
one in the front and one on the back pad.

got 2 of these for the backyard as they have a much smaller footprint.
http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/products_show.asp?id=9798

and one of these in the toddlers room so i can laugh at when she is not sleeping and being crazy.
http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/products_show.asp?id=9842

got all the cameras from ali express for 1/3$ of what local sellers wanted to get for them. ran all cat 6 and install myself. they had no problem with the -30c blast we had a few weeks ago.

Ball park cost for me
$1000 for 5 camers. $300 for a POE switch. $200 for cat6 indoor/outdoor cable and i already had a Home pc.

[AllGoNoShow]

Originally posted by blairtruck
i have a 5 camera IP setup running Blue Iris securty software. love it now thats its all setup

i got 2 of these http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/Products_show.asp?id=9130
one in the front and one on the back pad.

got 2 of these for the backyard as they have a much smaller footprint.
http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/products_show.asp?id=9798

and one of these in the toddlers room so i can laugh at when she is not sleeping and being crazy.
http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/products_show.asp?id=9842

got all the cameras from ali express for 1/3$ of what local sellers wanted to get for them.

Do you have this setup on a separate/surveillance only box/computer or integrate it with your desktop and leave it running all the time?

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by AllGoNoShow


Do you have this setup on a separate/surveillance only box/computer or integrate it with your desktop and leave it running all the time?
i have it with home pc on all the time. i originally bought a dedicated pc cause everyone said a cheap desktop would work. but it couldnt handle the load when a few cameras recorded at the same time in 1080p. so home desktop was much more powerful .

[AllGoNoShow]

Thanks

[v2kai]

Originally posted by blairtruck
i have a 5 camera IP setup running Blue Iris securty software. love it now thats its all setup

i got 2 of these http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/Products_show.asp?id=9130
one in the front and one on the back pad.

got 2 of these for the backyard as they have a much smaller footprint.
http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/products_show.asp?id=9798

and one of these in the toddlers room so i can laugh at when she is not sleeping and being crazy.
http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/products_show.asp?id=9842

got all the cameras from ali express for 1/3$ of what local sellers wanted to get for them. ran all cat 6 and install myself. they had no problem with the -30c blast we had a few weeks ago.

Ball park cost for me
$1000 for 5 camers. $300 for a POE switch. $200 for cat6 indoor/outdoor cable and i already had a Home pc.

if the form factor of the dome cams wasnt a major concern, would have been easier and potentially cheaper to just get an off the shelf system

http://www.costco.ca/Swann%E2%84%A2-8-channel-HD-NVR-with-2TB-HDD-and-4-HD-1080p-Camera-Kits.product.100131877.html ~$800-1000 4 cam NVR system

The above system comes with 4 x 1080P POE cameras (expandable to 8), ethernet cables, full time NVR 2TB of storage (expandable with second HDD and larger drives than 2TB) with built in motion detection, scheduling, alert options etc. Quality is excellent.

I was debating trying to build a system from scratch on the cheap for our new home but after seeing the costco swann/lorex systems it just wasnt worth the leg work. Considering they go on sale for a couple hundred bucks every now and then combined with free shipping to your door and easy returns/support its a no brainer. Fairly plug and play, a bit of configuring with router and you can remote access live feeds, recordings from the NVR with the free app.

http://www.costco.ca/Swann%E2%84%A2-16-channel-HD-NVR-with-3TB-HDD-and-8-HD-1080p-Camera-Kits.product.100115809.html ~$1500-1629 8 cam NVR system

Toma- If you want decent video quality and it's for security I'd say it's worth the investment of a couple extra bills to get a decent setup. The headache and marginal savings if any to cobble together a homebuilt setup is hardly worth it.

All in all a few 1080P cams with good quality night and day video with a PC or NVR capable of handling the data rates and other install hardware like switches and cabling will add up to roughly the same as an off the shelf bundle. The 1080P bundles like the one I listed above are excellent quality, have good night vision and can definitely be used to ID plates/people. If there is money to be saved its on install. Not hard to do at all.

Also lots of sample video on youtube.

I'd also suggest adding a UPS to your recording PC or NVR/DVR unit to ensure cameras stay up during power outages.

You are right about the memory express systems at least in terms of ID'ing plates/people, anything less than 1080P is not worth it. I've worked with 960/ D1 res systems and I can definitely say to skip those if you will rely on it for ID'ing purposes.

pKexNhcI4GI

[71/454]

I buy my stuff from nellyssecurity.com. Give it a look, he's got single cam systems if that's all you need. Setup is easy, but there's videos if you get stumped.

[The_Penguin]

+1 for Hikvision, Blue Iris, and Nelly's.

I have several Hikvision DS-2CD2032 cameras and a few cheap wireless IP cameras and Blue Iris.
Love it.

[Zorac]

Originally posted by The_Penguin
+1 for Hikvision, Blue Iris, and Nelly's.

I have several Hikvision DS-2CD2032 cameras and a few cheap wireless IP cameras and Blue Iris.
Love it.

the 2032s with blueiris is a great combo. i get mine from aliexpress though and bought the software directly from the blueiris website. should see a new version of blueiris shortly so you may want to hold off. the big different is expected to be v4 will be 64bit, which is only and issue if your running a lot of cameras so it may not matter to you.

if you go that route, check out the blueiris app as well, a great addon.

[The_Penguin]

Yeah, I got my first 2 from Nelly's, and my next 3 from AliExpress.
Great price

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by The_Penguin
Yeah, I got my first 2 from Nelly's, and my next 3 from AliExpress.
Great price

it only took 9 days from order placed to delivered of my 5 cams on ali express. local distributor couldn't get them quicker or near the savings.

[Mitsu3000gt]

So lets say you catch someone doing something they shouldn't be on your property (vandal or whatever), you have a good picture of their face, but no name, no address, no physical evidence, nothing. Are the police going to waste any time on it, especially if it's a minor crime or a juvenile?

I'm genuinely curious, I've always wondered if getting exterior cameras were worth it, or if they day I caught something, nothing would be done about it.

[Kloubek]

I imagine the media would be interested in posting something for a citizen if there was a clear picture, no?

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I imagine the media would be interested in posting something for a citizen if there was a clear picture, no?

Maybe, but with how many people have security cameras and especially cell phones these days, wouldn't you see something on the news almost every day if they were that interested? Obviously if you caught a murder or kidnapping or some other serious crime, everyone would be all over it, but a kid breaking into cars, or vandalizing, etc., would anyone waste time on it?

Again, I don't know what the answer is, I'm curious, as it would greatly affect my decision to purchase since that would be what you would most likely capture, if anything.

[The_Penguin]

At least with a good quality clear video you have some chance of IDing a burglar etc.

And even if the police can't do anything initially, social media can really get the word out.
Look at what happened with that "worst driver" video. Now that was a good clear video, not the crap like you see from some convenience stores, or the vidcaps from that locksmith break-in. About as useful a child's crayon drawing.

[rob the knob]

hi guys

you think it is better:
-to run from pc?
-or NVR? i am not knowing much about NVR, or pc too

how about those costco system? good option?

[blairtruck]

here is my camera setup
you can see kid and dog sleeping.
and then outside

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/BlairTruck/Capture_zps2e073499.png

[rob the knob]

how do you run cable from house to garage camera?


Originally posted by blairtruck
here is my camera setup
you can see kid and dog sleeping.
and then outside

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/BlairTruck/Capture_zps2e073499.png

[blairtruck]

garage had an overhead power connection when i bought it. 5 years ago i trenched in gas and power and took down the overhead power.
for the camera i put up a messenger wire on the existing wallmounts. and used the old power entry for the cat 6 to go run in. ran the outdoor rated cat6 along messenger wire.

you can also get cat6 with the messenger wire built in. but i couldnt find any locally. so i just got the outdoor stuff with the gel on the inside for moisture protection.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-CAT-6-SHIELDED-OUTDOOR-AERIAL-SELF-SUPPORTING-WITH-MESSENGER-CABLE-WIRE-UV-/151015954796


here is video from the front the day after i got new pavement in my area

GcdnzqHlJmY

[AllGoNoShow]

:burnout: :burnout: Love it haha :thumbsup:

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by blairtruck
here is my camera setup
Thanks... I was going to ask if you could post some shots! :thumbsup:

I might have to pickup a few myself! :rofl:

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by The_Penguin
At least with a good quality clear video you have some chance of IDing a burglar etc.

And even if the police can't do anything initially, social media can really get the word out.
Look at what happened with that "worst driver" video. Now that was a good clear video, not the crap like you see from some convenience stores, or the vidcaps from that locksmith break-in. About as useful a child's crayon drawing.

The "worst driver" video is actually an argument for the cameras being useless IMHO. Here we have 1080P footage of a hit & run, along with a crystal clear demonstration that she should under no circumstances be allowed to continue driving on public roads, plus she was on her cell phone, and all she got was a $1XX fine, and the OK to keep driving. Surveillance doesn't seem to do much, even when you catch someone red handed in full HD (for a serious crime I think it would be more valuable though.)

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Maybe, but with how many people have security cameras and especially cell phones these days, wouldn't you see something on the news almost every day if they were that interested?

Fair. Maybe not, but at the end of the day the media is after a story... not to help the public. So as long as you set up a good story around it, they just might be willing to play the clip on TV.

[AllGoNoShow]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


The "worst driver" video is actually an argument for the cameras being useless IMHO. Here we have 1080P footage of a hit & run, along with a crystal clear demonstration that she should under no circumstances be allowed to continue driving on public roads, plus she was on her cell phone, and all she got was a $1XX fine, and the OK to keep driving. Surveillance doesn't seem to do much, even when you catch someone red handed in full HD (for a serious crime I think it would be more valuable though.)

Such a let down in the system....

For us we provided video of a group of vandals that hit the neighborhood, police told us straight up our video would have been 100% useless they usually wouldn't even have looked at it, but the stupid fucks actually each looked straight into another camera INSIDE someones house who was home and they took quite a bit of items from that house, that guy actually called the same night and they found the kids and were gathering evidence to use against them. So in the end it worked out for us but yes, complete let down that unless they are caught red handed DURING the video that it doesn't serve much purpose except to watch your stuff leave or get damaged later on or at least prove to insurance your not trying to screw them and someone else took your crap.

[anarchy]

The townhouse I'm renting out had a break-in the other day so I'm working with my tenants to look at some options. I'm thinking of getting a relatively affordable security camera that's more of a deterrent to put at the front of the townhouse (possibly one in the back patio as well.)

Are there any decent local retailers or is it best to go online? I was checking out that Nelly's site you guys were mentioning here and came across this:

http://www.nellyssecurity.com/eyesurv-esip-mp2-bt1-cp-2-mega-pixel-ip-ir-outdoor-bullet-security-camera.html

Looks to be cheap and has good reviews. I don't think we need anything crazy, just something to make the bad guys think twice :thumbsup:

Thoughts?