Support Local Businesses? Yes Please!

[Masked Bandit]

Stolen from another thread:

"Just think. If every family in the country shifted $10 a month to locally-owned, independent businesses instead of national chains, over $9.3 billion* would be directly returned to local economies. That means better schools, better roads, more support for police, fire and rescue departments and stronger local economies.

Find out what kind of economic impact you could make by doing the same in your metro area."

Now normally I'm not into the hippy Kumbaya feel good stuff but for some reason when I read that line in the other thread it really resonated with me. As a general group A) in Alberta, B) in Calgary and C) on Beyond, we probably do a bit better than the average financially. So does it really matter if my coffee is $2.50 instead of $2.00? If my pants are $55 instead of $40? Nope, not at all. Does it make a difference to that independent business owner trying to compete with the big box store that buys all their stuff from a sweat shop in China? You betcha.

Maybe it's the Christmas season modifications to my morning coffee but I think I'm going to make a legitimate effort to spend more of my money with Ma & Pa shops, locally owned & such, and less with the giants, within reason of course. I humbly propose you, Beyond, do the same.

[jwslam]

Dibs on the credit!

Doesn't eating at a non-chain restaurant count?
I'm pretty sure I'm doing pretty good at supporting local businesses. I get suckered into buying stuff in Inglewood and at their night market all the time!

Oh. And food trucks :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[killramos]

wtf can you buy from a local business for 10 dollars? a pack of gum?

The only Ma and Pa stores in Calgary are restaurants :dunno:

[jwslam]

Originally posted by killramos
The only Ma and Pa stores in Calgary are restaurants :dunno:
Someone isn't hipster enough to ever step foot in Inglewood...

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by jwslam
I get suckered into buying stuff in Inglewood and at their night market all the time!

Inglewood has a night market?

[killramos]

Originally posted by jwslam

Someone isn't hipster enough to ever step foot in Inglewood...

The only "ma and Pa" store in Inglewood i go to anymore is proline

Not exactly the kind of business most granola munchers are trying to support.

:devil:

[jwslam]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz
Inglewood has a night market?
I think it's like once a month during summer on fridays.
http://www.finditcalgary.ca/inglewood-night-market.html

Originally posted by killramos
The only "ma and Pa" store in Inglewood i go to anymore is proline

Not exactly the kind of business most granola munchers are trying to support.

:devil:
I take 'Ma and Pa' stores to include those hand crafts stores. And knick knacks.

[Masked Bandit]

Its not just the food stores or craft places (I don't buy crafty shit from anyone, Ma & Pa or otherwise). I'm thinking about things like new hockey gloves from the independent shop instead of Canadian Tire or Sportchek (although they started off as an independent). A bottle of wine from the neighbourhood shop instead of Costco or Superstore. Things like that.

[Strider]

I'm definitely behind this, but really only for restaurants / coffee shops (eg. Phil and Sebastian or Analog instead of Starbucks whenever I get the chance).

Aside from that, most "Ma & Pa" shops are either niche/arts & crafts type products (which I have no interest in), or the same sweat shop mass produced goods except at higher prices.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by jwslam

I think it's like once a month during summer on fridays.
http://www.finditcalgary.ca/inglewood-night-market.html

Cool, I'll have to heck it out! I had no idea.


Originally posted by jwslam

I take 'Ma and Pa' stores to include those hand crafts stores. And knick knacks.

I consider "Ma and Pa" stores to be any locally owned and operated business, or at least started out as locally owned and operated. I think some of you guys are taking "Ma and pa" moniker a little too literally.

For example, I'll buy from The Camera Store and Memory Express over Best Buy/Futureshop any day, Bow cycle over SportChek, Calgary Shooting Centre over Bass Pro, Touchstone Insurance over Meloche Monnex ( ;) ), etc....

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Strider
Aside from that, most "Ma & Pa" shops are either niche/arts & crafts type products (which I have no interest in), or the same sweat shop mass produced goods except at higher prices.
Pretty much it. Why would I pay more for the exact same product. If I'm getting a unique product then I have no choice other than to walk away.

[FraserB]

Outside of some grocery shopping, electronics and gas, it's pretty easy to spend money on locally owned businesses. And the cost difference isn't that big most of the time.

[killramos]

Originally posted by jwslam

Pretty much it. Why would I pay more for the exact same product. If I'm getting a unique product then I have no choice other than to walk away.

That is one of the big problems.

For alot of things 9/10 i wont buy something online if i can get it in Calgary.

But one example is i like to buy alot of aquarium supplies at Pisces, great locally owned business. Sometimes their prices are fair. Sometimes they are charging 2-3X msrp / what i can get it from online from Vancouver. and when you bring it up with them they just shrug and say to bad.

That's when I buy it on my cell phone right in front of them. :dunno:

[speedog]

Ma and pa stores are difficult to find people say or are only restaurants?

Really?

Of the larger cities in Canada, Calgary has the highest percentage of non-chain businesses.

I buy all of by 6-49 tickets from an independent corner store. Baking - often go to a local ma and pa bakery right in our community. Pet stores - don't get me started, lots of ma and pa independents out there if you wish to take the time to find them. Mechanical repair shops - hell, my brother's shop ins most definitely a ma and pa type of place and I know of at least half a down if not more independent mechanic shops within 3km of my house. Out family always get our hair cuts done at a ma and pa place and there's tons of those hair places that are ma and pa independently owned businesses. Liquor stores, restaurants, tire places - plenty of ma and pa places out there.

Shit, I've lived in Calgary for 35+ years and have never had any difficulty finding independent ma and pa places to spend my money.

As far as a place like Pisces selling at 2-3x msrp, I'd like to know how one knows what the actual msrp is for a business like that. Further to that, there is so much more to that discussion that people aren't aware of - Canadian retailers basically paying US retail for US manufactured goods. Quite difficult to compete with US retail pricing when you're already in the whole because of what you have to pay and further to that, you're operating a bricks and mortar business and are expected to remain competitive against on-line merchants who don't have that overhead. Must be nice to window shop in warmth and handle a product and then deal a further blow to your local economy by spending your money elsewhere - interesting to see where this could lead if we had no local businesses.

Personally, I think it's kind of sad that we come to a point where people don't wish to shop locally at non-chain businesses - I like the connection/relationship I can develop at these ma and pa places but I guess I am maybe becoming a rarity in that sense. Getting my flat tire fixed at the nearby tire shop owned by a younger Vietnamese couple just works for me. Buying bread, buns and such at the local ma and pa bakery just works for me too. But for others, that relationship with on-site business owner(s) isn't of any value as best as I can tell and that's just sad IMHO.

[killramos]

Originally posted by speedog


As far as a place like Pisces selling at 2-3x msrp, I'd like to know how one knows what the actual msrp is for a business like that. Further to that, there is so much more to that discussion that people aren't aware of - Canadian retailers basically paying US retail for US manufactured goods. Quite difficult to compete with US retail pricing when you're already in the whole because of what you have to pay and further to that, you're operating a bricks and mortar business and are expected to remain competitive against on-line merchants who don't have that overhead. Must be nice to window shop in warmth and handle a product and then deal a further blow to your local economy by spending your money elsewhere - interesting to see where this could lead if we had no local businesses.



If you read my post you would note that i was buying things out of VANCOUVER, from another LOCAL business who runs a retail store. Not from an American chain or bulk depot.

I am sorry if you think that the convenience of walking home with a product today is worth paying 3 times its value... Even if it is supporting a local business.

And MSRP is MSRP, i am not sure why you think its different for a local business?

You just don't want to accept that "Ma and Pa" stores are out there to make money like anyone else and will rip you off like like any other business owner. And apparently i am an asshole for taking my business elsewhere when being ripped off.

http://www.netbrawl.com/uploads/a90351565b4c1692e6dc653d68956208.jpg

[speedog]

Originally posted by killramos


If you read my post you would note that i was buying things out of VANCOUVER, from another LOCAL business who runs a retail store. Not from an American chain or bulk depot.

I am sorry if you think that the convenience of walking home with a product today is worth paying 3 times its value... Even if it is supporting a local business.

And MSRP is MSRP, i am not sure why you think its different for a local business?

You just don't want to accept that "Ma and Pa" stores are out there to make money like anyone else and will rip you off like like any other business owner. And apparently i am an asshole for taking my business elsewhere when being ripped off.

http://www.netbrawl.com/uploads/a90351565b4c1692e6dc653d68956208.jpg
To the bolded section - but those items bought at my local ma and pa places aren't 2-3X more expensive. The bread I buy is competitively priced and of a much better quality. The 6-49 ticket I buy at the ma and pa place is priced exactly the same as the 6-49 ticket at 7-11. The ma and pa fish and chips place 3 blocks away is great and competitively priced as is the east indian ma and pa restaurant in the same complex or the Vietnamese ma and pa restaurant as well as the other 4-6 ma and pa restaurants down there.

As far as ma and pa places, yeah they're in the business to make money but that doesn't necessarily mean every one of them is out there to rip you off. Now being in the pet business, i can see what you say about aquarium supplies but it's not an issue to me because we don't stock aquarium supplies in or shop - too much variety to get into that business but profit margins on anything fish related are quite good. Maybe consider looking up a smaller independent that does fish stuff - they're out there in Calgary.

Final thing - to buy it on your cell phone right in front of the young clerk at Picses really proves nothing other that you looked like a bit of an ass in front of them and certainly, you probably annoyed the hell out of other customers waiting in line behind you. That 16-17 year old kid really doesn't give a damn about you making a fuss in front of them because Pisces, while being independent, is really not that different than any large Petland in the city. Go to River Front if you want a bit more of a ma and pa feel or seek out the even smaller independents that are out there.

[Feruk]

If it's local, it should be cheaper. If it ain't, then obviously the business model is flawed. I don't support flawed business models.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Feruk
If it's local, it should be cheaper. If it ain't, then obviously the business model is flawed. I don't support flawed business models.
No. If I'm bringing in 10 of something vs if I'm trucking in 1000 of the same thing, the overhead costs associated with delivery average out much smaller on the bulk.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[loweg]

Super funny how that aquarium industry is being used as an example in this. It is such a tough industry right now. Calgary aquarists are actually quite spoiled in the pricing they get on livestock, in particular marine livestock.

I could go on and on....

Source: involved in some realm of the hobby for the past 16 years, from retail, to dry goods distribution, to maintenance company. Currently own a maintenance company, and work for local pet products distributor.

Edit: currently cleaning fish tank actually

Also, let me ask you this. If local aquarium stores started closing. Where would you get your livestock? It's rather nice being able to do a "fish run ", instead of ordering said fish off the internet .
Just a bit of food for thought next time yöre ordering online.

Ps what product was 3x at Pisces, just curious you can pm me. Hope it's not one of my products !

[ZenOps]

I grind and brew my own coffee for 15 cents.

[killramos]

Originally posted by loweg

Ps what product was 3x at Pisces, just curious you can pm me. Hope it's not one of my products !


PM'd!

[speedog]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I buy local, and use local services whenever it makes sense

However, there is no excuse for not being competitive

I live and work in a global market, so I tend to embrace it more. I see nothing wrong with globalization
Really?

Let me relate a true story to you - a couple of years ago I was faxed a MSRP list from one of the US based pet food manufacturers whose product we carry. Now we can not import this pet food directly from the manufacturer but have to buy it from a Canadian distributor and a specific Canadian distributor because there are territories set up. An how, I am looking at this price list and the suggested MSRP was below what I was paying cost for this manufacturer's products and very quickly I was on the telephone to them asking them how it was possible to stay in business if my cost was higher than the MSRP.. The manufacturer did some checking and informed me they had faxed me the wrong list - another fax comes in with all the cost and MSRP pricing adjusted to right where I expected it to be. Some further digging and a few more phone calls with the manufacturer revealed that the cost on their products for a Canadian retailer was the same as MSRP that US customers would pay - so much for a Canadian retailer trying to be competitive with an on-line retailer based out of the USA.. Of note, the first fax was the cost/MSRP product list for USA based retailers, the second fax was the same list with adjusted pricing for Canadian retailers.

So things are not always as they appear to be - for us, 95% of the dry dog and cat food we sell is Canadian made - partially to support Canadian businesses, partially because we believe that Canadian made dog and cat food products for the most part are superior and partially to protect against a strong American dollar which just further increases the cost of American produced goods brought into Canada.

[A790]

Originally posted by Feruk
If it's local, it should be cheaper. If it ain't, then obviously the business model is flawed. I don't support flawed business models.
:rofl:

[Strider]

Originally posted by speedog
Ma and pa stores are difficult to find people say or are only restaurants?

Really?

Fine... they're services (including food services), or niche/arts&crafts type businesses.

That covers all of the examples that you've used in this thread, except for pet/accessories retail.

I think most people in this thread would agree that they have no problem supporting local restaurants, coffee shops, bakeries, services (barbers, mechanics, etc). Especially so when the quality of the product meets or exceeds the quality of the corporation.

But for general retail, it just doesn't make much sense. If I go to an independent retailer and pay 10% more for my 80" TV than Costco or Walmart, does that money stay in the local economy - leading to better schools, better roads, more support for police, fire and rescue departments? Not bloody likely. It goes back to the distributor or manufacturer because said retailer can't negotiate the same price that Walmart or Costco did.

[kenny]

Does buying local really mean that money stays local? I have heard of many stories where families make money here in Canada, and that money just gets sent back "home" to Asia anyway.

I also don't understand how buying local leads to more $ funneling into local infrastructure. Is this due to tax avoidance schemes? or is it another piece I'm missing?

[speedog]

Originally posted by Strider
Fine... they're services (including food services), or niche/arts&crafts type businesses.

That covers all of the examples that you've used in this thread, except for pet/accessories retail.

I think most people in this thread would agree that they have no problem supporting local restaurants, coffee shops, bakeries, services (barbers, mechanics, etc). Especially so when the quality of the product meets or exceeds the quality of the corporation.

But for general retail, it just doesn't make much sense. If I go to an independent retailer and pay 10% more for my 80" TV than Costco or Walmart, does that money stay in the local economy - leading to better schools, better roads, more support for police, fire and rescue departments? Not bloody likely. It goes back to the distributor or manufacturer because said retailer can't negotiate the same price that Walmart or Costco did.
Retail goods - liquor stores, chocolatiers, tire shops, butcher/meat shop, I would call a bakery retail, speed/automotive supply places (yeah, there's ma and pa places out there), probably can find more.

As far as electronics, I don't do Costco or Walmart - can't stand Costco crowds/lines/parking and pretty much same thing for Walmart. Last TV (60 LED LCD) was bought at Memory Express not ma and pa place but certainly not a Future Shop/Best Buy either.

Consumables - certainly one can find ma and pa places that sell them and usually at competitive prices and maybe even a better quality if locally produced. Non-consumables - different story, big box will win here almost every time because of they're buying power. We stopped selling orange hockey balls (toy for a dog) because Canadian Tire was selling them for cheaper then I could buy them for.

There are also other things which I pay more for then my big box competitors sell the same item retail but I still sell at an inflated price because people don't want to be bothered to spend and extra 30-40 minutes out of their life to go to the big box store.

At the same time, a ma and pa place can often sell some very unique and great items at a great price because they can source products locally and eliminate the middle man or because they're not a chain store tied down to the chain's purchasing and pricing policies. Elk antler we sell in our shop comes directly from an elk farmer versus chain/big box stores which are not allowed to do such. Fresh smoked beef bones or raw beef bones - I'm not tied down by a corporation and can offer a very superior product a a much better price.

Ma and pa retail can be a source of some really hidden gems if one cares to take the time and effort to look for such. Friend of mine owns a small independent chocolate company and their products are amazing - much better than any Callebaut or other fine chocolates.

[speedog]

Originally posted by kenny
Does buying local really mean that money stays local? I have heard of many stories where families make money here in Canada, and that money just gets sent back "home" to Asia anyway.

I also don't understand how buying local leads to more $ funneling into local infrastructure. Is this due to tax avoidance schemes? or is it another piece I'm missing?
Dunno. Seeing as my family is in Calgary and all of my extended family is in Alberta, I'd say the money spent at our shop or my brother's shop stays quite local. My friend's chocolate shop - ditto. Baker down the street - ditto. Some money may go overseas but I'd bet most stays local.

As far as funneled back into local economy - the supplies we buy for our shop all comes from local ma and pa places with the exception of Staples. Kind of interesting that I can source most our supplies locally and at a better price - took a bit of time to find these places but in the end, it was well worth it. Almost all of our distributors are also ma and pa places as well - probably and industry thing.

[clem24]

Originally posted by kenny
Does buying local really mean that money stays local? I have heard of many stories where families make money here in Canada, and that money just gets sent back "home" to Asia anyway.

I also don't understand how buying local leads to more $ funneling into local infrastructure. Is this due to tax avoidance schemes? or is it another piece I'm missing?

Haha this I am sure is how many Asian ma and pa places operate. Not inferring anything but last time I was at Bolsa: transactions did not go through the cash register, your bill was displayed on the $5 Casio calculator, and no receipt is issued.

In any case, I don't know why I should go out of my way just to support a 'local' business especially if they hawk the same 'Chinese made in a sweat shop' shit. If the business is good and sells/serves what I want, I don't care if it's local or not, I support it.

So are hookers and massage parlors 'ma and pa'? Drug dealers? :D

[Darell_n]

All local businesses are just fronts for large supply chains. Not much is manufactured in Calgary so how can the money possibly stay in this city? The markup on the products may stay here, that's it.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Darell_n
All local businesses are just fronts for large supply chains. Not much is manufactured in Calgary so how can the money possibly stay in this city? The markup on the products may stay here, that's it. More than that stays here...

The owners of local business spend money living in the community/city. The employees that are hired spend their money in the city. The local city taxes that the business pay go to local city coffers. Most of our major urban areas have the supply warehouses local which also employ local people who also spend their money locally.

It goes on and on... Anyone who thinks spending money at local businesses does not inject money into their local economy is dead wrong.

It's funny to me... So many people on this board will argue that they don't mind having high oil prices and spending more money on fuel etc because that means our economy is working and generating trickle down money for all, but when they can save 5 or 10 percent on an item online vs buying at their local stores, they balk and justify it by saying that they would be crazy to spend more on a similar item they can order elsewhere for cheaper, but in reality it would have exactly the same effect as higher fuel prices. If more money is spent in local economies, it generates more money for almost all.

[theken]

I am thinking of opening a shop, perhaps everyone on beyond could throw 10 at me in the future, lol, if you like soap, and lip balm and beard oil and waxes.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by theken
I am thinking of opening a shop, perhaps everyone on beyond could throw 10 at me in the future, lol, if you like soap, and lip balm and beard oil and waxes. All about the natural shaving soaps! :thumbsup:

[Darell_n]

Originally posted by tirebob
More than that stays here...

The owners of local business spend money living in the community/city. The employees that are hired spend their money in the city. The local city taxes that the business pay go to local city coffers. Most of our major urban areas have the supply warehouses local which also employ local people who also spend their money locally.

It goes on and on... Anyone who thinks spending money at local businesses does not inject money into their local economy is dead wrong.

It's funny to me... So many people on this board will argue that they don't mind having high oil prices and spending more money on fuel etc because that means our economy is working and generating trickle down money for all, but when they can save 5 or 10 percent on an item online vs buying at their local stores, they balk and justify it by saying that they would be crazy to spend more on a similar item they can order elsewhere for cheaper, but in reality it would have exactly the same effect as higher fuel prices. If more money is spent in local economies, it generates more money for almost all.

You just described Walmart, minus the one owner spending his personal money in Calgary. I will pay more for superior customer service, but not for a locally owned shop selling products made elsewhere.

[max_boost]

big shops for everything big. small shops for everything small (food, custom made stuff chairs, jerseys, etc.)

pay cash at a mom and pop restaurant, tip 20%, they love you forever. :rofl: :drool:

[theken]

Originally posted by tirebob
All about the natural shaving soaps! :thumbsup: i will look up how they are made and blast a batch out, see how they work

[Maxt]

My business is local, buy from me , so I can spend more in Japan. How much local money is going into real estate in Victoria.:rofl:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ZenOps]

I never really believed much in the idea that shopping local was all that.

Really, coinage and bills are rated to be usable for at least 80,000 transactions over its lifetime. Past the initial purchase that you might support your local community, its up in the air where that bill or digital dollar goes. Maybe the storeowner buys his socks at Walmart when he goes home - In which case, you've really only staved off that dollar remaining local for half a day.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Interesting story, but I don't really see how it relates to my post

All I said is that I buy Canadian when it makes sense, and that there is no excuse for not being competitive.

Sometimes I pay more if the product comes with better service, or has noticeably better quality... although there is a soft value of those factors.

If I take your example of dog food... if it is maybe 10~15% more than the US version, then sure, I see no problem with supporting the local market. If it is 100~150% more, I need to start to consider the priority of that extra money and if it might be better put to use elsewhere in my life. There isn't much service that comes along with dog food, so there is little value there... so unless there is some huge difference in quality, I'd probably start getting brand "x".


As for globalization, people may not like it and think it is evil, but it is the primary reason we are able to have a lot of the things we do.
The issue is some Canadians expect Canadian retailers to be competitive with American retailers and even purely on-line American retailers when Canadian retailers are already a step or two behind the pricing game through no fault of their own - kind of like being sent into a boxing match with one of your hands tied behind your back. I regularly get questions from customers who wonder why the American produced items we sell are so much more than what they see on-line - what they don't understand is the pricing structures we face as I detailed above. Never the less, shipping costs out of the States usually evens things out for many items and especially so for dog food - people are amazed though that there are different pricing structures in place for the two countries.

Even my brother who owns and operates a mechanical services business regularly purchases items out of the States and drives down to the border to pick them up effectively eliminating the middle man -more money in his pocket I suppose and maybe a bit better of a deal for his customers although I really don't know. Problem is in some industries like the pet food industry, a retailer can lose a line if they don't purchase through designated territorial distributors and losing a line can be more detrimental to the bottom line than any savings that might be realized by purchasing outside of those norms.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Darell_n


You just described Walmart, minus the one owner spending his personal money in Calgary. I will pay more for superior customer service, but not for a locally owned shop selling products made elsewhere.

The owner here is key, because that is where your middle class can be built from. Something small businesses can provide more than big stores can.

Especially when you're talking about businesses that don't even have franchise owners who may or may not live here. Even if 3 Starbucks hire more people than Phil and Sebastien's, Analog and Caffe Beano, the latter three will provide greater benefit to supporting locals. Now a Tim Horton's could provide even more if the franchise owner lives here, but could be no different from the Starbucks if they live in Vancouver.

[cycosis]

I too have a local small business (retail). As for the matching online prices, we put into policy years ago that we don't match anything online. Shuts the conversation down pretty easily.

Im just blown away by consumer entitlement. People are always trying to negotiate on the floor. Drives me bananas. My prices are my fucking prices.

Also, its almost fucking impossible to get people to leave positive reviews online. Only the shit ones that are usually blown out of proportion. My favourite threats from entitled douchebags: "If I can't have my way I'm never shopping here again and I'm going to tell alllll my friends and family just how awful this place is".:rofl:

Then again there are many nice customers. I had one drop off a Christmas gift for me the other day because she liked her experience so much. Never had that happen before.

[speedog]

And then there's the customers who say they can get an item for $3 less at a shop some 30km across town - better start driving because I am competitive in my end of town and retailers 30km away really aren't my competition.

[C_Dave45]

I shop at places that provide employment for thousands of local Calgarians. They in turn receive that employment, pay local taxes, increase their own purchasing, which in turn supports more local profit and employment. These large stores also pay millions in local city licensing fees and municipal taxes, as well as support many local organizations like minor hockey, special needs groups, Childrens hospital, etc, etc. By donating hundreds of thousands of dollars through charitable donations.

You mean to tell me that if I buy some made-in-China product from some 300 Sq ft kiosk operated by someone who has just Imigrated to Calgary two years ago, I'm a better person because I'm "buying locally"? What a croc o' shite!

Yes I get the whole let's support local and small business....but to look down on someone and feel superior to them just because they shopped at Walmart is such an arrogant elitist attitude.

Take any small town who've lost huge retail and secondary businesses that are owned by large corporations and see what happens to them.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by speedog
The issue is some Canadians expect Canadian retailers to be competitive with American retailers and even purely on-line American retailers when Canadian retailers are already a step or two behind the pricing game through no fault of their own - kind of like being sent into a boxing match with one of your hands tied behind your back.

Here's the bottom line as I see it. I have a much higher responsibility to my family to ensure that I spend my money in such a fashion so that I get the best value for my dollar. Everything else is secondary to that. I don't have any responsibility to shop local at all through some sort of misguided sense of "shop local, its your duty".. None. Zero.

I support local businesses like Bob for example because they give me the best value. If they can't do that, then they don't *deserve* my business just because they're local. Case in point, I shifted my business to support MaskedBandit for my insurance, not because it was cheaper, in fact, it was more expensive than I was paying. However he provided additional value in the form of service that I wasn't getting where I was at. That more than offset the increased premiums in my mind.

Ultimately, the cold ugly truth is that if enough Canadian retailers go tits-up due to being unable to compete due to the Canadian distributors fucking them over, then eventually the distributors will get the message as they'll see their revenues dry up. The market will adjust accordingly and those distributors will either reduce their prices or fail as well. Then someone new will step in and the cycle will repeat.

I want to be clear that I'm not against local business, I'm against all the BS reasons about how "the money stays here instead of being shipped somewhere else" and the related made up propaganda that I have yet to see any proof of being remotely true...

[e31]

I like the "idea" behind supporting local business, but I find it especially hard to justify spending real money on special orders. I'm talking about stuff that is shipped anyway; why should I pay 100% more to some local guy for signing a UPS delivery and then be forced to go pick it up? Stupid cartel "territories".

If it's not in stock locally you can't compete with home/PO delivery.

Support Canada Post is my motto.

[asp integra]

Originally posted by killramos
wtf can you buy from a local business for 10 dollars? a pack of gum?

The only Ma and Pa stores in Calgary are restaurants :dunno:

I would disagree with that, I own and operate a family business, Alberta Boot Co.

I find Calgary is full of mom and pop shops, and I do my best to support them as well, I think everyone should.

[speedog]

Hell, we've got lots of products for under $10 each.

[C_Dave45]

I re-read my previous post, and it came off as passive-aggressive and as if it was directed towards Bill (OP), which is wasn't intended that way at all.
I will shop locally when I can, and more importantly at small business when I can. For the very same sentiments that Codetrap mentioned above, I too am a customer of Touchstone and Tirebob's, not necessarily for being local, or even having the best price, but more importantly because I know the owner will take a personal interest in my needs.

I'm a small and local business and I lose customers to the "big boys" as well.

But I don't agree that just because a person shops at Walmart or Home Depot, they're doing a disservice to local community, because those business do a lot to support local communities and are an important part of the success of the local economy.

I run into that attitude at flea markets, farmers markets etc. People feel they're superior just because they shop only at small/local businesses, or they encourage boycotting the big box stores for the sole reason they're large corporation USA.

Hope no one took offense.

[heavyfuel]

Am I a big time hypocrite as a small business owner? Or maybe it's different when it comes to products vs. services? I remember paying some exorbitant amount for a few strip loin steaks at Bon Ton a while back, and they weren't even near as good as the exact same thing from Superstore for like 1/3 the price. Bought new snowboard bindings on ebay last week, once again local shops wanted $40+ more for the same thing, big time hypocritical but I can honestly say I don't feel one bit bad about it cuz in the end it's dog eat dog. Although I did buy a board at mission a few days earlier. I remember a while back I got a call from a local mom and pop health food/vitamin store, and although my quote was much much less than my biggest chain competitor, (always is) she still hit the roof, and I didn't get the job.

I have dozens of local mom and pop clients, mainly restaurants, and I proudly support them as they support me. But some local shops just expect too much from local vendors, just because they're local, like bordering on entitlement. So why should I spend more money for the same vitamins in her shop, when I can get better value at Superstore? I eat 6-8 small high protein meals/day, and I offer no apologies when I say, like fuck if I'd ever pay what a local meat shop would charge.

[JRSC00LUDE]

If it is something where service is anticipated, I endeavor to shop local. This includes clothing. I frequent a local menswear store where, even if the prices aren't always the best, they are reasonable and the service is second to none.

I wine/dine almost exclusively at privately owned joints and I buy 90% of my meat from the man who raised it.

I also support Urban Reserve businesses as I encourage and believe in the economic growth of First Nations.

[speedog]

heavy fuel - I always thought meat bought at a ma and pa independent would be more expensive but for certain cuts of meat, Master Meats beats Superstore in both price and quality.

As always, one has to know prices - brisket at Master Meats is great value.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by speedog
heavy fuel - I always thought meat bought at a ma and pa independent would be more expensive but for certain cuts of meat, Master Meats beats Superstore in both price and quality.

As always, one has to know prices - brisket at Master Meats is great value. Does it beat out costco in terms of price/quality? I found that the value really was there for the costco meat, and the only time I'll use SS is when the meat is on 30% off and I'm making jerky lol. :)

[speedog]

Don't know - don't do Costco.

[CompletelyNumb]

Unless there's a great, affordable butcher in Calgary that I have not been too, my experience has been that nobody comes close to Costco for price::quality

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by speedog
heavy fuel - I always thought meat bought at a ma and pa independent would be more expensive but for certain cuts of meat, Master Meats beats Superstore in both price and quality.

As always, one has to know prices - brisket at Master Meats is great value.

Interesting, was not aware of this. If this proves to be true, and they have ample supply of turkey, fresh salmon, chicken breasts and of course nice cuts of beef at a comparable price than SS, then I will gladly buy from them!

Costco is a great bang for the buck and great quality, but the money saved on merch would be burned up time-wise and I'd have to buy a small deep freeze, which I have no room for and which would up my power bill too.

[speedog]

Master Meats - haven't bought much from them, found their rib eye's to be much more expensive than Superstore but it was a nicer piece of meat. The brisket was way nicer in quality and better in price to on the times I've bought it there - kind of nice too have them bring out a huge chunk and you get too pick how much you want cut and even from where.

[C_Dave45]

There seems to be some discrepancy in this debate. Are we talking strictly small "ma & pa" type, individual stores? Or just a business that is completely local.

For example, I do almost all our Grocery and fuel shopping at Co Op. Completely local, all proceeds go back into the local community, in fact the dividends are given right back to Co Op members.

But anyways I'll segue into a bad experience today. I've been shopping at my local Deer Run Co Op for the past 13 years. Pretty much all my meat is purchased at their butcher counter. Excellent AAA beef.

Today I walk in, and go up to the meat counter and this is what I see for steaks:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/CalgaryDave/butcher.jpg

WTF is THAT?!!! No T-bones, no Porterhouse, no rib eyes. Nice display of tenderloins...what are those, a few they picked up off the floor?!!!
So I asked one of the butchers, "where's all your T-bones and ribeyes?"
"Oh we don't do T-bones here behind the glass"
"Since when?"
"We don't do them"
*sigh*. "Since when? I just purchased T-bones in September. Well can you at least cut me a Rib Eye then? The biggest you've got, at least an inch thick"
"Sure" she says and off she goes. She comes back and hands me this thing:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/CalgaryDave/Ribeye.jpg

"THAT'S a Ribeye?!!!! It looks like a striploin...are you sure?"
"Yes that's a ribeye". Pretty sad looking piece of meat for $50/kg!!

Absolutely pathetic. I've left my number with the manager, because if this is what kind of meat dept they're going to offer from now on, I'll just head back to Costco to buy my steaks: (A way better cut and almost HALF the price!!!!)


http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/CalgaryDave/IMG_1954.jpg

[Feruk]

Originally posted by jwslam
No. If I'm bringing in 10 of something vs if I'm trucking in 1000 of the same thing, the overhead costs associated with delivery average out much smaller on the bulk.
Ability to locally source vs truck in from distance is more what I was referring to. If you're getting into business trucking in 10 vs 1000 and both objects are identical, one is just more expensive, why would I buy from the guy trucking in 10? Flawed business plan.

[Masked Bandit]

I think we're getting a bit away from my original ides (duh, to be expected...lol). I am in no way suggesting that anyone over-pay for a product or service just to keep the money local. Someone earlier mentioned their number one priority was to their family and I completely agree. We still buy a lot of shit at Wal-Mart simply because for a lot of day to day household items, little guys just can't compete. But when the product or service is the same / same quality for the same / almost same price, then I think it's worth making the effort to buy local.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by asp integra


I would disagree with that, I own and operate a family business, Alberta Boot Co.

I find Calgary is full of mom and pop shops, and I do my best to support them as well, I think everyone should.

Well here's your problem, your stuff is TOO GOOD! I bought a nice pair from your shop about 15 years ago, had them re-soled once and they're no where near needing replacement. If you would have sold me some garbage they wouldn't have lasted this long!

;)

[LOLzilla]

Beyond group buy at Alberta Boot Co? I think so!

This thread is good. I just ditched Vista Print for Little Rock printing in Calgary.

[Darell_n]

We should start a list of good local companies. Not necessarily restaurants, but larger businesses.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I want a pair of custom, custom boots from him one day! :thumbsup:

[ExtraSlow]

I own two pairs of Alberta boots. I am pleased with the quality and the durability.

[Feruk]

Alberta Boot is a great example of a local company that sells a superior product. Hence why they get the business.

[suntan]

Interesting that most people equate "local" with retail operations.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by Darell_n
All local businesses are just fronts for large supply chains. Not much is manufactured in Calgary so how can the money possibly stay in this city? The markup on the products may stay here, that's it.

It's a spectrum.

Depends upon how much of the creation/distribution/delivery resides locally.

Regionally grown/sold produce is all local.

Things bought online still provide work for those doing local delivery.

The trick is to get products in which the greatest amount of supply chain is closest to you - without paying too much of a markup.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
But when the product or service is the same / same quality for the same / almost same price, then I think it's worth making the effort to buy local.

There is a reason why our local economy has turn into service based instead of product based.

Even with cheap crap from China, a lot of the non-local retail sector is dying. Local business in this sector can only operate in the niche market.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by suntan
Interesting that most people equate "local" with retail operations. Well, it's not like there's an abundance of international zoo chains lol. When people talk local businesses, what other type of business would we be talking about other than retail?