Increase Royalties

[Thales of Miletus]

Alberta currently produces about 730 million barrels of oil from Bitumen. By 2020 it will be producing nearly 2 billion barrels yearly.

Alberta will receive about 2 billion dollars in royalties this year. Which means Alberta is charging a royalty of $2.73 per barrel.

Is it time for Alberta to increase that royalty to $5 or even $10 a barrel?

How much profit is acceptable to the large oil companies?

[Christian@IE]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Royalty_Review


The government partially implemented the panel's recommendations. This coincided with a fall in oil prices during 2008 economic crisis. Oil and gas companies, especially juniors, complained that this hurt their bottom line, and threatened to move out of the province or shut down.

The political response was highly polarized, with the parties of the left, the Alberta Liberals and Alberta New Democrats, criticising the government for failing to get Alberta's "fair share" and, in effect, subsidizing oil companies at the expense of the public purse. They failed to make any gains against the Conservatives during the Alberta provincial general election of 2008, however, despite a record low turnout caused primarily by traditional Tory supporters staying home.

The Conservatives then "rolled back" many of the royalty increases in 2010.[1] Those on the right criticized the government for raising royalties and damaging profits in Alberta's most important industry, which they likened the "killing the The Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs". Junior oil companies were instrumental in funding the upstart Wildrose Party which emerged in the Alberta provincial general election of 2012 as the major challenger to the governing Tories, and became the Official Opposition.

The repercussion for royalties was that in 2009/2010, the Alberta government collected 6.1 billion dollars in royalties for the oil and gas sector.

[Thales of Miletus]

I remember the government freaking out when the oil companies said they were going to leave. That was just a negotiating tactic and the government caved.

If they want to leave let them leave. Sell their stake to any number of investors.

Oil companies would cry poverty if they were squeezing blood out of the last Albertan alive.

[16hypen3sp]

The government can use what it has. They need to be a little more responsible with money before they go around asking for it.

On another note, did we already establish that Thales is Toma or...?

[r3ccOs]

Thales, how is that dyno running?

[rx7_turbo2]

Posted 3 days ago :rofl:


Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
They won, this will be my last post. I was looking for a site with mature posters, and was told this was one.
Another classic troll move by our resident "PhD" :nut:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Posted 3 days ago :rofl:


Another classic troll move by our resident "PhD" :nut:

I was challenged by one of your peers in a pm. He suggested that I was too preachy and that if I talked in a plainer tone that people here would be respectful.

However here you are. A troll calling another person a troll.

[J.M.]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


I was challenged by one of your peers in a pm. He suggested that I was too preachy and that if I talked in a plainer tone that people here would be respectful.

However here you are. A troll calling another person a troll.

You're a cheeky bastard.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
The government can use what it has. They need to be a little more responsible with money before they go around asking for it.

On another note, did we already establish that Thales is Toma or...?

The government seems to be serving corporate interests before it serves the public good. This is an over riding theme in America, and I am hopeful that it doesn't become a theme here.

No I am not Toma. That has been established. I understand it is important for people to believe that their opinions are opposed by a small minority. This is why ten people need to be wrapped up into one persona. If ten people disagree with you, you might actually be wrong. But if it is one person, who has multiple accounts, well then that person is just crazy and your opinion has more legitimacy.

Toma believes in empathy and that Albertans can have democracy. I too have empathy, but am convinced that people believe in a false reality. A reality they defend to their own detriment.

For example, believing that the PC party in Alberta serves the common good. When in reality they bow to American lobbyists as eagerly as any U.S. senate member.

[rx7_turbo2]

For a guy that said he was done posting :rolleyes: :rofl:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
For a guy that said he was done posting :rolleyes: :rofl:

What is your wish for this site?

To make it your world where everyone agrees with you?

Or to have spirited discussions that will make you think and reconsider your own thoughts?

The pm I received, ask me to give this site a chance. That pm said that you should be ignored because you are just a troll.

I have seen nothing from you that would disprove that claim.

But you are free to enter any discussion you wish and give your opinion on the threads topic.

p.s. If you want your own site, where everyone agrees with you, why don't you just send yourself daily confirmation emails? "I am good enough, smart enough, and gosh darn it people like me".

[rx7_turbo2]

Can you post back to back to back again that would be awesome.

Is your goal to just play Toma's role till he comes back?

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Can you post back to back to back again that would be awesome.

Is your goal to just play Toma's role till he comes back?

What did Toma do to you that it has left you scarred for life?

You started flaming me, for my suggestion that Toma is a nice person.

Did Toma tell you that you are bad? What has left you so injured, that you cannot refrain from derailing threads?

You must have something intelligent to say? Or why would you join a forum?

If you joined for your love of cars, it would seem very strange that you would butt heads with Toma, as he has a very good understanding of the topic.

[rx7_turbo2]

Please refer to my sig.

I've said it before Toma isn't the guy you think he is. At least not around these parts.

He used a homophobic slur.

He constantly posts content with undertones of anti-semitism.

He's derailed others threads.

Without permission he censored other users posts by deleting them.

So please explain to me how he's a "nice person" cause he seems like a bit of an asshole actually :rofl:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Please refer to my sig.

I've said it before Toma isn't the guy you think he is. At least not around these parts.

He used a homophobic slur.

He constantly posts content with undertones of anti-semitism.

He's derailed others threads.

Without permission he censored other users posts by deleting them.

So please explain to me how he's a "nice person" cause he seems like a bit of an asshole actually :rofl:

I have not seen those posts, and you are giving me your interpretation of what he is saying. If you would like to start another thread and point out those quotes, I would be happy to read them.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


I have not seen those posts, and you are giving me your interpretation of what he is saying. If you would like to start another thread and point out those quotes, I would be happy to read them.

I've posted and linked to them in threads you've posted in, and the slur is in my sig. The fact you said you'd never post again, and three days later you're back speaks volumes about your intentions here. Toma, Arash, Goodfellow, none of them have pulled that stunt. Am I suggesting they have more integrity? Yes.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Company sets up in Alberta, invests millions, takes huge risk and faces volatile market swings, hires thousands of people to design and build a facility, has to jump through hoops for regulatory approval, has no revenue generated until project is operational. Finally... the company makes some money, all the people who tirelessly worked are able to enjoy some of hard work they put in.


Do you see Alberta as a volatile environment? Alberta has a stable and well trained work force. Free health care that the employer needs not worry about, and among the worlds lowest royalty rates.

Yet oil companies will still go to the middle east, where the populace is incredibly unfriendly, and where costs are much higher.

I understand that starting a small business is very difficult in Alberta. But do you believe that large international corporations face the same obstacles as Joe Schmoe?

If Norway can put away nearly a trillion dollars, from half the production, in half the time, don't you think Alberta should assess their savings plan?

Obviously the oil companies can still do business with Norway and profit. Why is Alberta so far a field in your opinion?

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


I've posted and linked to them in threads you've posted in, and the slur is in my sig. The fact you said you'd never post again, and three days later you're back speaks volumes about your intentions here. Toma, Arash, Goodfellow, none of them have pulled that stunt. Am I suggesting they have more integrity? Yes.

I have already explained that a pm was sent requesting that I give the site another go. Why does this bother you?

You suggest that Toma has slurred you, but you constatnly slur me, so might you be hating in others, what you see in yourself?

Here is my opinions on those you have mentioned.

Arash. Sees the obvious folly or the human condition, but loses credibility by investing his belief in the extreme.

Goodfellow. Seems to have a appropriate screen name.

Toma. Sees the world wide perspective, and rallies against the presented narrative. For example he will slam Israel for the treatment of the Palestine. Knowing that it takes two to tango.

I doubt many people understand that ancient Israel was a kingdom among many. And that more than a dozen different peoples have laid claim to that land. The suffering of a people, entitles them to some benefit, but it does not entitle them to cause suffering to others.

[rx7_turbo2]

There it is the classic double post :rofl:

[dirtsniffer]

Tough to raise them when other producing provinces charge less. I'd prefer if the government introduced a scaled Provincial income tax

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


Do you see Alberta as a volatile environment? Alberta has a stable and well trained work force. Free health care that the employer needs not worry about, and among the worlds lowest royalty rates.

Yet oil companies will still go to the middle east, where the populace is incredibly unfriendly, and where costs are much higher.

I understand that starting a small business is very difficult in Alberta. But do you believe that large international corporations face the same obstacles as Joe Schmoe?

If Norway can put away nearly a trillion dollars, from half the production, in half the time, don't you think Alberta should assess their savings plan?

Obviously the oil companies can still do business with Norway and profit. Why is Alberta so far a field in your opinion?

I'm not totally educated in this Norway model that I keep hearing the Socialists preach about saying it will end all of our problems and save the world/make us all rich/blah blah blah…

But I do know that Norway has some of the highest fuel prices in the world. Right now, gasoline is 1.72 euros which is 2.44 canadian dollars. Can you imagine if that was the case here? People lose their minds at $1.30. Now, like I said, I don't know if the price of fuel there is so high because of the Statoil or what. Maybe Sugerphreak can chime in…

http://autotraveler.ru/en/spravka/fuel-price-in-europe.html#.VJ8fVBAA

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
[B]

I'm not totally educated in this Norway model that I keep hearing the Socialists preach about saying it will end all of our problems and save the world/make us all rich/blah blah blah…

But I do know that Norway has some of the highest fuel prices in the world. Right now, gasoline is 1.72 euros which is 2.44 canadian dollars. Can you imagine if that was the case here? People lose their minds at $1.30. Now, like I said, I don't know if the price of fuel there is so high because of the Statoil or what. Maybe Sugerphreak can chime in…


There are pluses and minuses in every system. However I believe that a person has to demand the best for themselves and their community, in order to receive the best. Often I feel that people meekly request a pittance from power, as they fear that rocking the boat will lead to economic ruin. It is a form of bargaining that is done from a position of weakness.

imo The way Alberta has negotiated with the Big energy companies would be like a person selling their car, and then point out everything that is wrong with it, instead of everything that is right.

[ZenOps]

No need for anyone to have excess reserves of US digital dollars.

Its just a number. They are all just numbers. Again, Japan printed up $720 Billion US equivalent a month ago - money which they said they would not print unless they were in dire straits.

In most of the first world, you are going to get anywhere between -0.25% to 1% interest on any digital savings.

Whether by design or by luck, I think that Canada only having a very slim surplus by the tiniest of margins was the correct call. If we had saved up a few hundred billion we would look awfully silly when the Eurozone just decides one day to print up a trillion for the heck of it.

Spend as make, save a tiny bit (maybe 5% or less) or just stay right around 0.001% surplus is fine by me.

Also known as: You'd better spend the $696 US million surplus before you realize that all you can buy is ten $69.6 million Cy Twombly's.

[BandW]

I cannot fathom how Thales is not Toma. He makes the exact same mistakes over and over again.

I've never encountered another person (over the age of 13ish) who fucks up so many common nouns.

"Bitumen" "Philosophy" "University"

All incorrect capitalization in various threads (including this one).

How the fuck do you have a PhD yet cannot comprehend second grade English?

[Mista Bob]

At first I was confused as to how Toma became unblocked, then I noticed it was a different account.

Finally noticed the whole forum has him blocked and made a new account?

[M.alex]

Wait, I'm confused - did Toma get banned at some point? If so, why, did he blow up the wrong person's car, lol?

[dirtsniffer]

He didn't get banned. but he did remove some posts that he had to right to do. He disapeared after he was called out and Thales appeared.

[rx7_turbo2]

Does it matter? It's the same post topics, tone, nonsense as Toma. We lost one and gained another, Toma 2.0, hopefully we never have both versions to deal with at the same time. Toma's move was pretty bold though. Hard to take him seriously if he ever does return, I expect every response to Toma from now on will be "Or what Toma, you'll delete my post?"

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
There it is the classic double post :rofl:

Oh dear God.

Are you going to be okay?

You can assess a person by what they concern themselves with. The failure of society to care for the meekest among them, or the dreaded double post.

Thank God you are on this site to make sure attention is paid to the truly trivial.

I am starting to understand why Toma called you a name.

[HiTempguy1]

Can someone link the posts/thread Toma/Thales deleted or messed with?

Why the f&%k was Toma ever a moderator? He has stirred up more shit than anyone else on this forum.

Edit-

Ahahaha, all the recent search queries are for toma lol fuck that guy

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by BandW
I cannot fathom how Thales is not Toma. He makes the exact same mistakes over and over again.



Why do you concern yourself with foolish spelling mistakes, yet tolerate foolish behavior?

Yes I make spelling mistakes, mostly because I am concerned with brevity, not with making ostentatious displays.

You should concern yourself with the content of the post instead of acting like a pedant.

Can you explain why it is important to your people, a coterie of the fatuous if you will, to blend several socially concerned individuals into one persona?

Are you opinions unable to survive the review of more than one person? Or do you need to believe that the majority of the population conforms to your opinion?

I think your need to post is generated from and existential ennui.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Can someone link the posts/thread Toma/Thales deleted or messed with?

Why the f&%k was Toma ever a moderator? He has stirred up more shit than anyone else on this forum.

Edit-

Ahahaha, all the recent search queries are for toma lol fuck that guy

Can you guys link to some of this shit of which you speak.

Is it shit disturbing, or out of the box thinking, that offends you?

I personally have found, that people get upset when the reality they wish to believe, is revealed to by a fiction.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
I am starting to understand why Toma called you a name.

Would you like to call me a "fag" as well? Would that make you feel better? Is editing your post to include two or more thoughts instead of posting two or more times really that difficult :rofl:

[speedog]

Originally posted by Mista Bob
At first I was confused as to how Toma became unblocked, then I noticed it was a different account.

Finally noticed the whole forum has him blocked and made a new account?
For the record, the whole forum does not have Toma blocked as I am one that does not and I know of others on here that also do not have Toma blocked. In fact, I have no one blocked on any forum I have ever participated in as I figure I can just opt not to respond - simple enough to do, no?

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by speedog

For the record, the whole forum does not have Toma blocked as I am one that does not and I know of others on here that also do not have Toma blocked. In fact, I have no one blocked on any forum I have ever participated in as I figure I can just opt not to respond - simple enough to do, no?

I would imagine the vast majority of people have fairly empty ignore lists as you do.

***Edit***
Okay Thales Beyond is now yours to pollute without my commentary. I put you on the ignore list, I took you off, but the cycle ends with this post. Enjoy Beyond.ca

[cloud7]

As an Albertan that do not have any any direct association and employment in the Oil and Gas sector, I do not disagree that royalties should be reviewed and, if necessary, adjusted from time to time (either up or down). As we have seen in the recent past, this can be a hot topic that has to be reviewed carefully and sensitive to the context of Alberta.

[Thales of Miletus]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[roll_over]

I was going to keep out of this but now I cant

[roll_over]

These are rolady on smoked provolone and crinkle fries

[roll_over]

I hear a lot of people shitting on gluten free but am i doing it wrong

[M.alex]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Can someone link the posts/thread Toma/Thales deleted or messed with?

Why the f&%k was Toma ever a moderator? He has stirred up more shit than anyone else on this forum.

Edit-

Ahahaha, all the recent search queries are for toma lol fuck that guy

Toma was a mod? WTF? :nut:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by M.alex


Toma was a mod? WTF? :nut:

Can someone please tell me what Toma said that was so terrible?

Paraphrase if you would like.

[googe]

It amazes me that peasants will defend the rights of billionaires to come and take their resources, leaving them and their country high and dry.

[dirtsniffer]

employing 300,000 people seems like an alright deal?

[FixedGear]

Toma is a hardcore homophobe and it goes far beyond just using slurs
And

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by googe
It amazes me that peasants will defend the rights of billionaires to come and take their resources, leaving them and their country high and dry.

Propaganda is a powerful tool which is used effectively by power on those who have none. Plus the minds of the current serfdom are made of putty. There are free free thinkers in this era.

Power lobbies governments, which are full of people looking for power, not people who represent the people.

Power also controls the messengers and therefore controls the message.

How many times do you hear the phrase, "the job creators". People should know that phrase is complete bullshit, but they believe it because of repetition.







Originally posted by FixedGear
Toma is a hardcore homophobe and it goes far beyond just using slurs
And

I have never seen that displayed on any other board Toma visits. However I have stayed off the net for the last year.

In 2013 I posted on a board called the Yellowbullet. That place is full of the most vile people you can imagine. Often I saw Toma standing up against racists and bigots.

In all honesty, the only time I see Toma calling a person a name, is when they are incredibly stupid. Not the kind of stupid where a person is simply an imbecile, but the form of stupid where a person pushes the agenda of those who are in power, to the detriment of the everyday citizen.

i.e. Those who suggest that torture is for the good of a nation.

[r3ccOs]

someone needs antipsychotics to treat their dissociative identity disorder

[BandW]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


Why do you concern yourself with foolish spelling mistakes, yet tolerate foolish behavior?

Yes I make spelling mistakes, mostly because I am concerned with brevity, not with making ostentatious displays.

You should concern yourself with the content of the post instead of acting like a pedant.

Can you explain why it is important to your people, a coterie of the fatuous if you will, to blend several socially concerned individuals into one persona?

Are you opinions unable to survive the review of more than one person? Or do you need to believe that the majority of the population conforms to your opinion?

I think your need to post is generated from and existential ennui.

You're a funny guy.

You don't want to make ostentatious displays? Well in that case, I commend you for your use of "coterie" and "ennui". How pretentious of you.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by r3ccOs
someone needs antipsychotics to treat their dissociative identity disorder

^^^ Talking in the third, fourth and tenth person.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Arash Boodagh]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
funny, I don't see people lining up to help bankrupted companies If you lived in a fishing village would you;
A: Pool your communities resources together and build a large fishing ship, fish deep waters and profit greatly.
or
B: Being peasants with peasant mentality, help the ruling Lords build a ship, fish, then pay to eat those fish... dont profit greatly... probably end up going into debt and selling your daughter to the King for a night.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Likewise it amazes me that people feel entitled to company profits; profits they had no part in creating,

Umm, The workers create the products. Currently large companies are fighting against a movement that would pay farm workers 1 penny more per ten pounds of tomatoes harvested.


Large companies declare bankruptcy all the time. Usually it is the employees who lose while the CEOs still get their bonuses.

Times change from worker dominated economies to business dominated. Each has their failing.

But recently there has been a push to completely disenfranchise the worker. Therefore we are living in an age of the robber baron.

[KappaSigma]

Population of Alberta is about 4 million, blows me a way how the giv cannot run a balanced budget with the current tax and royalty structures.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by KappaSigma
Population of Alberta is about 4 million, blows me a way how the giv cannot run a balanced budget with the current tax and royalty structures.

How many of those 4 million are like Arash, taking from their community but not contributing? They're no help, that's for sure.

Proper spending habits would result in a balanced budget, no? But then you wouldn't be giving everything to everyone with their hand out and you'd get voted out.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


How many of those 4 million are like Arash, taking from their community but not contributing? They're no help, that's for sure.

Proper spending habits would result in a balanced budget, no? But then you wouldn't be giving everything to everyone with their hand out and you'd get voted out.

Are you saying that the majority of Albertans are on welfare?

Even people on welfare contribute to their community.

What causes problems is trade deficits. Companies like Walmart, which give very little to the community, and then take all of the consumers money and send it to the richest family in the world.


Originally posted by KappaSigma
Population of Alberta is about 4 million, blows me a way how the giv cannot run a balanced budget with the current tax and royalty structures.

It is odd that the politicians that call themselves Conservative are the worst with money.

[FraserB]

Under a Liberal or NDP government there would be no money to be bad with after they cut the legs off the oil industry.

Royalties are on a sliding scale, maybe increase the upper limit by a bit, but switching to a fixed price per barrel is pointless.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by FraserB
Under a Liberal or NDP government there would be no money to be bad with after they cut the legs off the oil industry.

Royalties are on a sliding scale, maybe increase the upper limit by a bit, but switching to a fixed price per barrel is pointless.


The last time the Liberals ran Alberta, they did a great job. The Social Credit of it's day is comparable to today's NDP.

Paul Martin was a Liberal and did a great job.

Mulroney was a Conservative and ballooned Canada's debt.

People have to stop listening to what the parties say and start looking at what they achieve. Alberta has a huge gold mine called oil. But it is developing the resource with little payoff while creating a lot of environmental damage and economic instability.

p.s. Harper is trying to turn Canada into the U.S., that should scare anyone.

[Nitro5]

So at what point does a successful small family business change to a soulless corporate giant? At what point do we praise people for hard work and then change and call them evil?

I'd love to be a successful businessman, but I don't want to cross that evil line of too much success.

Also it's dangerous to look at political terms in a vacuum. Did Malroney increase debt? Yes, but it's largly part of the condition of the government and economy from the previous Liberal government. Same as praising Martin for having a large surplus, but ignoring that much if that was from raiding $50 billion from EI and putting into revenue.

Or would you say it's fair game to blame Obama for the current U.S. economy and debt and ignoring what Bush didn't to get it rolling in that direction?

For someone that is trying to claim to be enlightened you sure play the partisan game hard.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
creating a lot of environmental damage

Flesh this out with specific examples and actual peer reviewed articles please.

No bullshit "it looks bad" arguments either.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Nitro5


I'd love to be a successful businessman, but I don't want to cross that evil line of too much success.

Also it's dangerous to look at political terms in a vacuum. Did Malroney increase debt? Yes, but it's largly part of the condition of the government and economy from the previous Liberal government. Same as praising Martin for having a large surplus, but ignoring that much if that was from raiding $50 billion from EI and putting into revenue.

Or would you say it's fair game to blame Obama for the current U.S. economy and debt and ignoring what Bush didn't to get it rolling in that direction?

For someone that is trying to claim to be enlightened you sure play the partisan game hard.

There is a lot of address in your post.

To start with the U.S. There is no partisan politics in that nation. It is a plutocracy which has two propaganda divisions. Each division has their own rhetoric which inflames various segments of the population. The U.S. decline started shortly after Ike's Farewell speech and went into a serious tailspin when Clinton repealed the 1933 banking act.

Now to Canada. The seizing of EI funds was pure theft on the part of the government. That money was paid by employees and employers for future benefits. The changing of the program hurt both employees and employers. This is one of the reasons Alberta had to import skilled foreign labor.

In the case of Alberta, it goes to the old saying that absolute power corrupts absolutely. The conservative party has been in power far too long. There are also too many friendly connections between the U.S. and the P.C.s. If you look at the Tarsands from a purely economic point of view, and do so with the best interest of Albertans in mind, the province has created a huge clusterfuck.

Housing is over priced, there is a labor shortage, the province lacks diversity, and major projects are being moved forward far too quickly. The PC overheated the economy instead of encouraging a sustainable economic environment.


Originally posted by Nitro5
So at what point does a successful small family business change to a soulless corporate giant? At what point do we praise people for hard work and then change and call them evil?



The point at which surplus capital is mostly derived from "surplus value" instead o f"value-added" commodities . The point at which companies use unfair trade practices to reduce competition. The point where a company exploits foreign work forces who live in poverty

imo small business is regulated to death and large companies get a pass when they ignore regulation.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by FraserB


Flesh this out with specific examples and actual peer reviewed articles please.

No bullshit "it looks bad" arguments either.

Google is your friend.

However you could start with asking yourself why the parliamentary committee suddenly destroy drafts of a final report on tar sands pollution.

I have worked in the tar sands. Syncrude, Suncor, Millenium, etc. I have also worked at Scotford, and all of the facilities in refinery row.

The above places are gross and when compared to facilities in B.C. they are prehistoric. Add the fact that a lot of the current trades people are unskilled and many of those fucked up on drugs, and you are creating a complete shit show.

[r3ccOs]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


Google is your friend.

However you could start with asking yourself why the parliamentary committee suddenly destroy drafts of a final report on tar sands pollution.

I have worked in the tar sands. Syncrude, Suncor, Millenium, etc. I have also worked at Scotford, and all of the facilities in refinery row.

The above places are gross and when compared to facilities in B.C. they are prehistoric. Add the fact that a lot of the current trades people are unskilled and many of those fucked up on drugs, and you are creating a complete shit show.

how do you vent the emissions when you run the dyno's for your cllients? do you have any caverns to store the co2s for carbon capture credits?

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by r3ccOs


how do you vent the emissions when you run the dyno's for your cllients? do you have any caverns to store the co2s for carbon capture credits?

I don't have a dyno. I sold my race car years ago, and it would be considered slow these days as it ran in the 11s. I built it in the days when you had to build your own parts. I always made sure to freeze my bottle so that the shop wouldn't empty all the N2O into the atmosphere.

These days my environmental foot print is pretty small however. I don't drive much and walk all summer.

I am not so concerned over the Sands CO2 output as I am with the contamination of the ground water. CO2 levels are past the point of no return, and therefore climate change cannot be prevented.

[Arash Boodagh]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
It is odd that the politicians that call themselves Conservative are the worst with money. Now that there is shill bating... :poosie:
When I want to watch live theater played by muppets grouped in multiple parties, I would just turn on the tube to hear Canadian politicians debate.
Thales of Miletus do you think any Canadian politician had the choice or vote for spending war billions overseas on 911 false flag pretenses?
If we want more royalties from natural resources it is not going to be about collectively choosing the best party and politicians to balance the budget best and make us a deal.

Workers need to get into social network groups, setup real unions and find a charismatic leader. These are the kind of guys that get assassinated because whole work forces stopping production (and stopping imported replacement workers) are the real threat to change policy.

i.e the start of the Iranian revolution was when the oil and gas workers all walked out.

[01RedDX]

.

[ZenOps]

Yes, a surprising amount of byproduct sulphur comes off oilsands processing.

A million ton pile of sulphur is quite impressive sight to behold, they don't even bother to cover it or put it in a warehouse, its just piled up in big outdoor pee coloured mountains.

As for royalties on Sulphur, one has to figure out how much a ton is worth. Assuming that the US dollar has lost 600% of its purchasing power against real goods in the last 15 years, and that it was $30 per ton for most of the 1990's, the rough estimate comes in about $180 per ton for sulphur post 2015.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


Google is your friend.

However you could start with asking yourself why the parliamentary committee suddenly destroy drafts of a final report on tar sands pollution.

I have worked in the tar sands. Syncrude, Suncor, Millenium, etc. I have also worked at Scotford, and all of the facilities in refinery row.

The above places are gross and when compared to facilities in B.C. they are prehistoric. Add the fact that a lot of the current trades people are unskilled and many of those fucked up on drugs, and you are creating a complete shit show.

So then you DO know about the environmental regulations, the requirements for reclamation, the fact that stuff is not pumped into rivers. You know the precautions taken against spills and releases and the regulatory requirements for stripping and clearing.

As for the sites being "gross", what do you expect? These places pull oil soaked sand out of the ground, then move it all over the place, crush it etc... If you're in the physical plants or at the mine face, it's impossible not to get dirty, that's why people wear coveralls. I don't know when you were last at Scotford, but it's not some filthy place. Unless you're shocked there is grime in an active upgrader that is pretty much 100% exposed to the environment. Also not sure which facilities in BC you're drawing a comparison to, AFAIK there aren't too many upgraders or oilsands mines there.

Out of curiosity, what did you do when you were at site?

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by FraserB


Out of curiosity, what did you do when you were at site?

Yes Scotford is a clean site. But it is still relatively new. The last time I was there was in 2000. I didn't really like the BS on that site and never went back.

If you go to imperial oil in refinery row, you will be in for a treat. The cat walks are falling off, the platforms are falling apart. Pulling bundles is also a fun job as everything seems to be built with after thought.

As for environmental regs. In Alberta they are pretty weak and often ignored. Every Albertan can remember the ducks that were wiped out, and that was a case of stupidity. We are certainly not close to the Untied States when it comes to lax regs. But there should not be any amount of pollution into ground water.


Originally posted by Arash Boodagh

Thales of Miletus do you think any Canadian politician had the choice or vote for spending war billions overseas on 911 false flag pretenses?


What false flags? Are you talking about Cheney tying Iraq to 9/11 so that he could fuck up the middle east and increase Haliburton profits?

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by FraserB

Out of curiosity, what did you do when you were at site?

I'd like to know as well. But he has dodged the question as to what he does on several occasions.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Dishonest people can't be trusted as sources of information.

[Arash Boodagh]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
What false flags? Are you talking about Cheney tying Iraq to 9/11 so that he could fuck up the middle east and increase Haliburton profits? The actual false flag attacks and the pretenses of master mind Bin Laden being harbored by the Taliban for us to go to war.
We spent billions and mens lives for nothing and then theres the collective atrocities we weve been involved in putting us in danger.

In your understandings do our politicians, and the different parties they're in, have the power over government or is it really shadowy ruling elites in the background setting every main policy... like royalties.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer


I'd like to know as well. But he has dodged the question as to what he does on several occasions.

I have? I don't think anyone has asked me a direct question. I have read posts where people insist I am someone that I am not. I have been through episode of insult fest simply because I defended another member from flaming.

I didn't know that one had to show i.d. to be a member here. Would it be fair that I asked those who ask me questions what they do and where they are from?

Questions like, "what do you earn?", seem a little rude and invasive right off the top. Or has decorum change since I was a kid?

But I have said that I am known on the net as Vroy.

Is that complete enough?

I know it is the age of the internet, but I have no use for flaming or insults. I might make a satirical comment to a person who is trolling, but that would be as far as I would take it.

I believe that behaving when you are anonymous, is a greater indication of class, than having to behave when someone is watching you.

Personally I like to keep some information private. In the past I was open on the internet and found that people used that information to attack. Mobs on the net are capable of saying some truly horrific stuff. Attributing things to a person that were never uttered, and then judging a person based on hearsay.

It is truly unfortunate that these immature people do what they do, but children are children.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
The actual false flag attacks and the pretenses of master mind Bin Laden being harbored by the Taliban for us to go to war.
We spent billions and mens lives for nothing and then theres the collective atrocities we weve been involved in putting us in danger.

In your understandings do our politicians, and the different parties they're in, have the power over government or is it really shadowy ruling elites in the background setting every main policy... like royalties.

Corruption is a symptom of a society that doesn't pay attention to the elected officials. I would agree that America is incredibly corrupt. But then again it was set up to be.

The U.S. handled the 9/11 event stupidly. In reality it was the Saudi's who were most responsible for the attack.

But never a country to waste a tragedy, the U.S. created an even larger tragedy, wasting public resources and the lives of the public's children, just so a few of the greedy could get richer.

[Arash Boodagh]

The Saudi royal family are mere pawns in a global conspiracy. Only some 20 thousand people on this planet are aware of the pre-911 "blueprint" plans of the attacks which I actually showcase in the thread (page4) of my signature.
The "blueprints" tie back to the Rockefeller family without a question.

So we say that these robber baron families have setup the US political system to be corrupted and broken... how do you think they have setup their diamond and energy schemes in Canada?

Its not like countries like Iran, Russia or China wouldnt have given Canada loans or support to extract our resources for better rates.

related music video
kIBeYoP9Wi0

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh
The Saudi royal family are mere pawns in a global conspiracy. Only some 20 thousand people on this planet are aware of the pre-911 "blueprint" plans of the attacks which I actually showcase in the thread (page4) of my signature.
The "blueprints" tie back to the Rockefeller family without a question.

So we say that these robber baron families have setup the US political system to be corrupted and broken... how do you think they have setup their diamond and energy schemes in Canada?

Its not like countries like Iran, Russia or China wouldnt have given Canada loans or support to extract our resources for better rates.



I prefer to deal with the tangible conspiracies. Ones that the public can wrap their heads around. Not the theories which are a little too far inside the onion.

[Canucks3322]

You guys are aware there's a block function on this forum right. .. you guys are basically only talking to each other why not just exchange phone numbers and meet up for a coffee?

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


As for environmental regs. In Alberta they are pretty weak and often ignored. Every Albertan can remember the ducks that were wiped out, and that was a case of stupidity. We are certainly not close to the Untied States when it comes to lax regs. But there should not be any amount of pollution into ground water.



Wow you are a huge troll but I'll bite. This statement is full retard. Which model for environmental standards would you like to follow? The middle eastern where oil literally spurts from pipelines for days without being fix? The Russian model? Do you know what they do to get oil out of the ground? The American model? Alberta has some on the most strict environmental regulations and monitoring in the world. You are just anti oil and gas.

Are you kidding me with ducks? fking ducks? Do you know how many ducks die a day from wind farms? How about from hunting? How about how many PEOPLE die a day for oil and gas production in other countries due to relaxed safety regulations.

There are bigger issues in the world someone like you should be preaching about but you would actually need to educate yourself in a topic instead of just posting your random opinions.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


I have? I don't think anyone has asked me a direct question. I have read posts where people insist I am someone that I am not. I have been through episode of insult fest simply because I defended another member from flaming.

I didn't know that one had to show i.d. to be a member here. Would it be fair that I asked those who ask me questions what they do and where they are from?

Questions like, "what do you earn?", seem a little rude and invasive right off the top. Or has decorum change since I was a kid?

But I have said that I am known on the net as Vroy.

Is that complete enough?

I know it is the age of the internet, but I have no use for flaming or insults. I might make a satirical comment to a person who is trolling, but that would be as far as I would take it.

I believe that behaving when you are anonymous, is a greater indication of class, than having to behave when someone is watching you.

Personally I like to keep some information private. In the past I was open on the internet and found that people used that information to attack. Mobs on the net are capable of saying some truly horrific stuff. Attributing things to a person that were never uttered, and then judging a person based on hearsay.

It is truly unfortunate that these immature people do what they do, but children are children.


Thales of Miletus wrote on 12-22-2014 06:41 PM:
LOL. How old are you? I am guessing about 22, as boys are getting older and older before they mature into manhood.

You talk like a snot nose.

p.s. I don't like insulting people on the forum, hence the PM. And it really isn't as much an insult as an observation.




dirtsniffer wrote on 12-22-2014 07:05 PM:
Since you asked I'm 28. Bachelor of Science with my professional experience in pipelines. What is your education and experience?

Sorry if I have very little patience with your posts. From what I've witnessed so far is your posts are very similiar to other notorious members. Typically all that is offered is opinion or illegitimate articles/videos that are pure propaganda. Also you probably believe that you are smarter than everyone while discounting their opinions. Maybe if you had an open mind and tried not to be condescending people around here would appreciate your insight more.

-dirtsniffer.


You're the one who initiated the PM's then you wouldn't even respond. I asked you to in another thread as well. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt too, but since you refuse to provide any insight as to why your opinion should be valuable in this community I take it that it is not. It's too bad because maybe people were asking because they almost believed in some of the things you say. You'll find that beyond is quite an open community. One thing that is often not appreciated is inflammatory threads created with little merit.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Wow you are a huge troll but I'll bite. This statement is full retard. Which model for environmental standards would you like to follow? The middle eastern where oil literally spurts from pipelines for days without being fix? The Russian model? Do you know what they do to get oil out of the ground? The American model? Alberta has some on the most strict environmental regulations and monitoring in the world. You are just anti oil and gas.

Are you kidding me with ducks? fking ducks? Do you know how many ducks die a day from wind farms? How about from hunting? How about how many PEOPLE die a day for oil and gas production in other countries due to relaxed safety regulations.

There are bigger issues in the world someone like you should be preaching about but you would actually need to educate yourself in a topic instead of just posting your random opinions.

Have you been close to a tailing pond, or a flare stack, in places like Syncrude or even Trail B.C. ? Just because other places can be worse, does not mean that Alberta or Canada is doing a great job.

Your point that Birds die at wind farms is a propaganda tool. Bird die at cell towers, and other tall structures. Far more birds die running into windows than just about anything else.

Black Law Wind Farm has been praised by bird societies for the work done to help bird species. Generally speaking wind farms have a very low environmental impact.

But this thread was about Royalties. If the corporations are making a mess of the North, Alberta should be compensated fairly. Do you think the current royalty structure is fair? Keep in mind that even ex oil men have said that it is not.

I would love to see the Alberta Government form a resource pension. One that creates jobs when the economy is slow and will benefit Albertans in the future. For example, when the oil sector slows, trades people could build wind farm. The income from those facilities could then be transferred back into the pension plan.


Originally posted by dirtsniffer

You're the one who initiated the PM's then you wouldn't even respond..

I did respond, you should have checked your inbox before you replied. Also I do not know why people post personal messages on the forum. It is a PERSONAL MESSAGE. Posting it on the forum is like crying for your mommy in public. imo

[themack89]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
[...] Also you probably believe that you are smarter than everyone while discounting their opinions. Maybe if you had an open mind and tried not to be condescending people around here would appreciate your insight more.
[...]

Sorry I just had to pick at this.

There is a certain personality type who experiences difficulty with respecting someone unless the individual in question is at a minimum competency or intellectual level. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but serves more as a filter...And it's probably closer to the truth that Thales is like this more so than not. In a lot of ways I am like this (in the Finance forums at least).

I had a short exchange with Thales where I had to correct him (or at least have him 'confirm' his comments), and he was open to it and respected my comments.

So, it actually is possible he is 'smarter' (I would use the term 'intellectually capable') here than everyone else... And if you want him to take you seriously, you need to demonstrate you are equally capable. Otherwise there is the block button haha.

Of course. I could be totally wrong.

[FraserB]

Flaring is pretty heavily regulated by the AER. There are specific limits on what can be flared, when, notification requirements and how much can be flared. Use of the flare stack isn't some free for all activity.

[schocker]

Originally posted by FraserB
Flaring is pretty heavily regulated by the AER. There are specific limits on what can be flared, when, notification requirements and how much can be flared. Use of the flare stack isn't some free for all activity.
:werd:
900 m³/d combined flaring/inceneration/venting
This is really nothing. Only exemption is if you are on test or other circumstances (Not cost effective to pipeline if you have small volumes), you are supposed to conserve your gas asap.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

I did respond, you should have checked your inbox before you replied. Also I do not know why people post personal messages on the forum. It is a PERSONAL MESSAGE. Posting it on the forum is like crying for your mommy in public. imo

Nope, no response. I posted the message because you were saying you don't personally attack people and also you said that no one asked what you did for a living. So this PM pretty much cleared both of those things up.

Based on your last post yesterday being at 3 am and your first post today was at 1 pm I would guess you are not really employed.


Originally posted by themack89

...So, it actually is possible he is 'smarter' (I would use the term 'intellectually capable') here than everyone else... And if you want him to take you seriously, you need to demonstrate you are equally capable. Otherwise there is the block button haha.

Of course. I could be totally wrong.

Many of the people he is talking down to are generally regarded as some of the more intelligent people here. Not all of them, but definitely a few.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer


Nope, no response. I posted the message because you were saying you don't personally attack people and also you said that no one asked what you did for a living. So this PM pretty much cleared both of those things up.



I think you should recheck your pms. You are suggesting that the PM doesn't work properly on this site.

Also I do not know why conflict is so important to you. You have made a point of suggesting that I would be a lesser person if I was unemployed.

If you want to start a topic, about why people flame, I would be happy to give my insights.

But this thread is about royalties. Do you have an opinion on that?

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


I think you should recheck your pms. You are suggesting that the PM doesn't work properly on this site.

Also I do not know why conflict is so important to you. You have made a point of suggesting that I would be a lesser person if I was unemployed.

If you want to start a topic, about why people flame, I would be happy to give my insights.

But this thread is about royalties. Do you have an opinion on that?

Don't put words in my mouth. I said you should qualify your opinion, as many here do. So VROY since that's all your willing to share, I went over to permformance-shop.com and left a message with calgarycobra. Hopefully he will stop by this site to explain some more about your past. Here is his last response to one of your posts.


Coincidentally, I started receiving harassing phone calls on my cell from a blocked number and random facebook/linkedin invites from people I dont know shortly after I started asking VFAG to hang himself. Pure coincidence I'm sure. I dont mind the calls but I'd like to ask: dont be a coward VFAG, just come out and say who you are and indicate what you would like to get from our conversation. Your PM's to me from years ago indicated you knew my home address and that you could "... stop by and see me anytime ... ". I'd welcome your visit "anytime".
link to thread (http://www.performance-shop.com/showthread.php?t=56455&page=3)

Sounds like you are more than willing to exploit and interfere in peoples real lives outside a message board. Is that why you like to remain so hidden?

[FraserB]

Holy shit, Toma spams that forum more than this one.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by FraserB
Holy shit, Toma spams that forum more than this one.

My God :eek: 16 of 20 threads on the first page of that forums "society/politics" section were started by Toma! I'm glad he's taken some time away, dude had a problem.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer


Sounds like you are more than willing to exploit and interfere in peoples real lives outside a message board. Is that why you like to remain so hidden?

You should really understand context before you comment. It sure seems like you wish to make a conflict, Why you do is beyond me.

However regarding Calgarycobra, I have a genetic disease that has left me disabled. Calgarycobra and his type, say such things (paraphrasing) as, "I am a lazy parasite and that I don't look disabled and that I should go hang myself instead of collecting a pension".

It is those type of comments, which prevent me from volunteering a lot about myself here. I shared on that site, and the honesty I posted with, was met with small mindedness and hate.

The comment I sent to Calgarycobra was one asking him to post with a little more decorum. His response was to post that I was threatening him.

If you need a screen shot of my initial pm to him, or a screenshot of the ones I sent you, I would be happy to forward them to you.

Personally I think online conflict is a lot of unnecessary effort and doesn't do anything for anyone.

[killramos]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


My God :eek: 16 of 20 threads on the first page of that forums "society/politics" section were started by Toma! I'm glad he's taken some time away, dude had a problem.

At least he ocassionally posts or replies about cars and car topics on the car forums...

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


You should really understand context before you comment. It sure seems like you wish to make a conflict, Why you do is beyond me.

However regarding Calgarycobra, I have a genetic disease that has left me disabled. Calgarycobra and his type, say such things (paraphrasing) as, "I am a lazy parasite and that I don't look disabled and that I should go hang myself instead of collecting a pension".

It is those type of comments, which prevent me from volunteering a lot about myself here. I shared on that site, and the honesty I posted with, was met with small mindedness and hate.

The comment I sent to Calgarycobra was one asking him to post with a little more decorum. His response was to post that I was threatening him.

If you need a screen shot of my initial pm to him, or a screenshot of the ones I sent you, I would be happy to forward them to you.

Personally I think online conflict is a lot of unnecessary effort and doesn't do anything for anyone.

Well Don, from my quick searching. It seem's like you used to brag about making 5K a week welding pipe together so I'm not sure how you went from having a masters to that. you also talk about being in an accident and that's why you don't work now. and that a union pays your bills. It's quite easy to see why you think the way you do.
Also called that you were unemployed.

seems that you and 89coupe go way back.

welp, kept reading and found this, posted by you.

link to thread (http://www.performance-shop.com/showthread.php?t=43614)

I was in the trades for twenty two years and have three red seals. A ticket, Rigging, Fitting.

Safety is being taken away from (S)NAIT and is going to places like U of A.

people credit you for killing performance-shop (http://www.performance-shop.com/search.php?searchid=1496677&pp=50&page=7)

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer


Well Don, from my quick searching. It seem's like you used to brag about making 5K a week welding pipe together so I'm not sure how you went from having a masters to that. you also talk about being in an accident and that's why you don't work now. and that a union pays your bills. It's quite easy to see why you think the way you do.
Also called that you were unemployed.

seems that you and 89coupe go way back.

welp, kept reading and found this, posted by you.


link (http://www.performance-shop.com/showthread.php?t=43614)

I have been on the net for quite some time. What you are doing is not foreign to me. You are attempting to smear me, in an effort to smear the things I say. Destroy me, destroy the message.

However I would prefer that you learn the topic at hand, and maturely discuss it. Often people who lack knowledge express what they feel. But feelings constructed by memes and agitprop have no merit. You cannot respond with knowledge, so you respond with your feelings, one of which is anger.

This is the problem I had on the website you are linking to. Except there I was overwhelmed by a mob when I was at a low point in my life.

Since you are asking why I lived my life like I did, here is the answer. I had trades in my blood, I came from a family of mechanics and learned how to weld by the time I was 15. I took honors physics in order to get into medicine. However I had people to take care of, and went back into the trades as that is where the money was at that time.

Because of my genetic disorder I worked in fair bit of pain. A condition called Neuropathic pain. For this I got injection, used tape, and various other devices to cope. At the end of my career I had 1200 pounds dropped on me. Those injuries combined with my disorder have been difficult of over come. I work on getting better, even though doctor have told me that will never happen.

I post on the net, because I care about society. I find the people who object to my posts care about themselves and are concerned that my opinions may hurt their wallet. But I like to think that my intellect lets me see what power is doing. How power takes from the worker, and how workers are made to feel that they get more than they deserve.

Now the above was a big novel, but I hope it gives you enough info that you can give your hate a rest, and get back to enjoying the forum. That seem better than hating on members who's opinions you do not share.

p.s. I never bragged about making 5K a week. That was a response to someone saying that disabled people are parasites. I wished to say that I was a tax payer who paid a lot of taxes in my life. Any tradesman can make 5K a week these days. In all honesty, if I could get myself into a condition where I could work at 7/11 I would be happy. Because any job is a good job.


Originally posted by killramos


At least he ocassionally posts or replies about cars and car topics on the car forums...

What would you like to know about Fox Body Mustangs. Nitrous Oxide, or Cam geometry?

[googe]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg

[dirtsniffer]

Well colour me orange. But the argument has no substance so how am I supposed to address it.

Well I guess I will anyways.

Thales, you do not understand how royalties are charged to oil sands producers. They are not charge as a dollar/barrel figure nor would they be increased in any manner similar to that.

:closed:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
Well colour me orange. But the argument has no substance so how am I supposed to address it.

Well I guess I will anyways.

Thales, you do not understand how royalties are charged to oil sands producers. They are not charge as a dollar/barrel figure nor would they be increased in any manner similar to that.

:closed:

Actually I do understand how the royalties work. I was providing an average rate for simplicities sake.

The rates increase as the price increases. They are also influence by what state of construction the projects are in. The size of the project and location are also factors.

For an existing project, an increase in the royalty rate means that a greater share of production goes to the Alberta treasury, which means that a smaller share goes to provincial and federal taxes (calculated on revenue net of royalties) and to shareholders – the change is not creating new revenue, it’s simply re-appropriating it.

The sands are a trillion dollar portfolio, and I believe people should know more about that investment. Currently when people here about the rates they reply with the sound bites, that they rates are too low, or that higher rates will kill investment.

The price of oil is not determined by royalty rates. So royalty rates do not influence demand. This gives the province leverage that it doesn't use. Instead the province has set a very low rate. This has lead to labor shortages and hyper inflation. It has also created a boom or bust economy.

Currently the province only collects 10% of it's revenue from the oil sands. And if you consider that the sand are Alberta's economic engine, that sounds absurd.

Lastly, I believe the royalties should be placed in an Alberta pension plan. It is a resource that should benefit all Albertans, not just a few. The Quebec Pension Plan has 5 billion invested in the Tar Sands. Yet there is no Alberta Pension Plan.

[italic] source globe and mail.

[Nitro5]

Would I be forced to pratcipate in this pension plan even though I already save enough for my own retirement?

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Nitro5
Would I be forced to pratcipate in this pension plan even though I already save enough for my own retirement?

I do as well. But I think that a pension plan that is funded by resources would be a nice idea.

A plan that invests in Alberta in projects like power generating stations, and other industries that can export for profit.

I would also like the idea that there is a local pension plan that could be managed by Alberta, as I worry about Wall Street corruption destroying the value in the pension plan I have.

What value does paper have, except for someone to tell you that it is worth something?

[Thales of Miletus]

I would also be for free University. As I believe innovation is also an important investment.

[dirtsniffer]

So you think alberta has a single source economy and that we should have our own retirement fund aside from CPP. SO what happens when oil dries up and then we have no economy? we cant pay our pensioners and we can't rely on other provinces like so many rely on us now.

Also raising the royalty rate does in fact increase corporate tax. If the producer has to pay 1% more revenue to the government they will have 1% less profit, but they will only save roughly 10% of that in tax savings.

Saying Alberta only generates 10% of its income from the oil sands is also grossly wrong.

Also please provide examples of hyper inflation in Alberta

[googe]

What's the point? You've made up your mind.