Undeveloped walk out basement = FREEZING

[clem24]

As title states it's unbearably cold down there on cold days like these (-10 and lower). I suspect it might be the air intake? The rest of the house is fine. It's a 2 storey built in 2007. Any help?

[CapnCrunch]

Are your basement heat ducts open? -10 doesn't sound even close to being normal lol.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch
Are your basement heat ducts open? -10 doesn't sound even close to being normal lol.

I think he meant -10 outside, not in the basement. ;)

[BavarianBeast]

It's pretty typical.

Your walkout is uninsulated then if the basement is undeveloped, correct?

Insulate the side that is exposed to the elements, should help a bit.

[ercchry]

yeah too many factors without seeing how "undeveloped" it really is

[blitz]

Is it insulated with vapor barrier? Heat ducts in the ceiling? The combustion air intake shouldn't make it that chilly down there. I'd check for drafts/leaks around the door/windows.

Adding a floor level cold air intake for the furnace could help out.

[speedog]

Interesting, my sister-in-law has a 20 year old mutli-floor home in Tuscany with a fully developed walkout basement and despite it being properly insulated including the garage walls, it is always is unbelievable cold in their walk-out basement. Personally, I think it has more too do with the open stairwell that goes all the way up to the top floor - can't help but think that that just funnels the home's heat to the top floor. Come to think pf it, the only warm room on their main floor is the living room and that is probably because it has a regular doorway into it that at least keeps some of the heat in there - their kitchen/dining/family room which is one open space on the main floor that connects directly to the open stairwell is also always coolish. Everything on the upper level, always quite comfortable.

So maybe it's a home's design more than anything else.

[clem24]

Originally posted by ercchry
yeah too many factors without seeing how "undeveloped" it really is

It's a standard new home at the time so the exterior concrete walls are framed/insulated with a layer of clear plastic. I've got used carpet and underlay over 99% of the concrete floor. Because of the walkout we had to pay for the frost wall, whatever that means. LOL I know NOTHING about houses.

There's that fresh air intake that usually frosts up on cold days like this. But yeah could be right - there must be a draft coming in from the walkout side..

[clem24]

Originally posted by speedog
Interesting, my sister-in-law has a 20 year old mutli-floor home in Tuscany with a fully developed walkout basement and despite it being properly insulated including the garage walls, it is always is unbelievable cold in their walk-out basement. Personally, I think it has more too do with the open stairwell that goes all the way up to the top floor - can't help but think that that just funnels the home's heat to the top floor. Come to think pf it, the only warm room on their main floor is the living room and that is probably because it has a regular doorway into it that at least keeps some of the heat in there - their kitchen/dining/family room which is one open space on the main floor that connects directly to the open stairwell is also always coolish. Everything on the upper level, always quite comfortable.

So maybe it's a home's design more than anything else.

LOL yeah we have a open to above living room/stair as well. Maybe something about Tuscany haha. The main floor is fine, my son's room gets a little cold as it's cantilevered over the front porch so nothing underneath and my bonus room gets a little chilly as well because it's overtop an uninsulated garage.

[speedog]

Clear plastic probably doesn't have that much in the way of insulation abilities - sounds like you need some proper insulation/finishing down there to warm things up.

[clem24]

Originally posted by speedog
Clear plastic probably doesn't have that much in the way of insulation abilities - sounds like you need some proper insulation/finishing down there to warm things up.

It's insulated.. So the walls of the basement are framed/insulated and the plastic is the part that holds in the insulation.. Just missing the drywall. Oh and yes heat ducts in the ceiling.

My parents have an undeveloped non-walk out in Edgemont built in 91 and that basement is awesome - super warm in the winter and perfectly cool in the summer. I used to sleep in it lots when I lived at home because it was such a comfy environment; but a long ways to the washroom LOL.

[Ntense_SpecV]

Even our finished walkout is cold. I sort of expected it to be colder than the rest of the house since it is a basement and all.
It was especially cold when it was just an empty undeveloped space. It is however perfect in the summer time, and when the A/C kicks on it gets a bit chilly even.

[ExtraSlow]

I close the vents to the basement in the summer to direct the cold AC air to the bedrooms. Otherwise.

[Waldi]

Often the culprit is cold air intake that is open to the basement. When you have long pipe that goes to the roof and open end in the basement in cold temps cold air is "heavy" and unloads into basement via open end of cold air intake. The simple solution is to setup damper valve in the open end of pipe in the basement to prevent of cold air coming in. Another simple solution (not recommended is to cover this pipe with something that would restrict airflow back. I believe the reason for cold air intake pipe venting to the basment is that in case of snow blocking intake on the roof you still have air available for furnace and thus not resulting in incomplete burn reaction and potential exposure to CO. I alwayz had walkout basements and it was warm as any room in the house. I had seperate utility room and due to cold air intake dropping air into room it was rather cold. I would partially restrict dishchrge of air via damper design. One can also use a longer duct pipe and attach it to cold air return dishcharge to make it taller and restrict outflow of cold air. Wonder how others deal with this.

[suntan]

It will never be warm until you close off the furnace, and you put in cold air returns on the basement floor so that air actually circulates down there. You also need a heat vent in front of every window/door.

Is your insulation R8 or R12? They changed code a little while ago.

[clem24]

Originally posted by Waldi
Often the culprit is cold air intake that is open to the basement. When you have long pipe that goes to the roof and open end in the basement in cold temps cold air is "heavy" and unloads into basement via open end of cold air intake. The simple solution is to setup damper valve in the open end of pipe in the basement to prevent of cold air coming in. Another simple solution (not recommended is to cover this pipe with something that would restrict airflow back. I believe the reason for cold air intake pipe venting to the basment is that in case of snow blocking intake on the roof you still have air available for furnace and thus not resulting in incomplete burn reaction and potential exposure to CO. I alwayz had walkout basements and it was warm as any room in the house. I had seperate utility room and due to cold air intake dropping air into room it was rather cold. I would partially restrict dishchrge of air via damper design. One can also use a longer duct pipe and attach it to cold air return dishcharge to make it taller and restrict outflow of cold air. Wonder how others deal with this.

I think you are on to something. This might be the ticket..!

http://www.hoyme.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=58

These guys are based in Camrose and have a solution to the problem. So if I understand it correctly, what this does is that when the furnace starts up, the motor opens the fresh air vent, and closes it when it stops? I guess I don't have a high efficiency furnace LOL.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by clem24


I think you are on to something. This might be the ticket..!

http://www.hoyme.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=58

These guys are based in Camrose and have a solution to the problem. So if I understand it correctly, what this does is that when the furnace starts up, the motor opens the fresh air vent, and closes it when it stops? I guess I don't have a high efficiency furnace LOL.

i think you just solved the last mystery piece i have in my setup! :rofl:

[ianmcc]

I installed a Hoyme damper myself in out walkout years ago. The furnace room we built would get so cold you could see your breath. After the install it was like night and day.
Install is very simple but you should have some basic wiring skills.

[clem24]

Found a guy to come out and do the install tonight! :clap: Thanks Waldi!

Yeah once the flap is open, the cold air is literally GUSHING in and then nothing when it closes.

It'll probably take a few on/off cycles (plus tomorrow should help too) to feel the effect. Thursday should be a good test when it drops down to -15c again.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by Waldi
Often the culprit is cold air intake that is open to the basement. When you have long pipe that goes to the roof and open end in the basement in cold temps cold air is "heavy" and unloads into basement via open end of cold air intake. The simple solution is to setup damper valve in the open end of pipe in the basement to prevent of cold air coming in. Another simple solution (not recommended is to cover this pipe with something that would restrict airflow back. I believe the reason for cold air intake pipe venting to the basment is that in case of snow blocking intake on the roof you still have air available for furnace and thus not resulting in incomplete burn reaction and potential exposure to CO. I alwayz had walkout basements and it was warm as any room in the house. I had seperate utility room and due to cold air intake dropping air into room it was rather cold. I would partially restrict dishchrge of air via damper design. One can also use a longer duct pipe and attach it to cold air return dishcharge to make it taller and restrict outflow of cold air. Wonder how others deal with this.

Couldn't you just insulate the cold air intake instead?

[sabad66]

Originally posted by clem24
Found a guy to come out and do the install tonight! :clap: Thanks Waldi!

Yeah once the flap is open, the cold air is literally GUSHING in and then nothing when it closes.

It'll probably take a few on/off cycles (plus tomorrow should help too) to feel the effect. Thursday should be a good test when it drops down to -15c again.
What's the ballpark price range on this if you don't mind me asking?

[clem24]

Originally posted by sabad66
What's the ballpark price range on this if you don't mind me asking?

I have no idea if I overpaid.. First place I called wanted about $450 + tax. Second guy did it for $375 all in and came to my house last night after I called (at 10PM LOL). PM me if you want his info.

I can't seem to find ANY info on how much the actual Hoyme damper costs or where you can even buy it but I am guessing $200-250?

[sabad66]

that seems like a good deal. My parents were offered a damper by the furnace cleaning company when they were doing a routine cleaning and i think the quote was $500ish.

[nzwasp]

In the picture of that hoyme damper the cold air intake appears to be next to the furnace. My cold air intake is on the other side of the basement from the furnace, atleast 20 - 30 feet away.

[clem24]

Originally posted by nzwasp
In the picture of that hoyme damper the cold air intake appears to be next to the furnace. My cold air intake is on the other side of the basement from the furnace, atleast 20 - 30 feet away.

That's weird.. It's the combustion of the furnace that requires fresh air so the fact that it's 20-30 feet makes it kind of pointless? But then again I know nothing about HVAC systems. In any case the install looked fairly simply: remove old canister style intake, replace with Hoyme damper unit, wire to your furnace, crank up the heat to test. Guy was in and out in 15 minutes.

[Waldi]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


Couldn't you just insulate the cold air intake instead?
It should be insulated as is, but ther is usuallly "Y" connector and one leg is open to the basement. This will create that cold air spilling effect and you don't want to block it completly due to carbon monoxide potential issue. There are few options, installing damper is one of those.

[suntan]

Originally posted by clem24


That's weird.. It's the combustion of the furnace that requires fresh air so the fact that it's 20-30 feet makes it kind of pointless? But then again I know nothing about HVAC systems. In any case the install looked fairly simply: remove old canister style intake, replace with Hoyme damper unit, wire to your furnace, crank up the heat to test. Guy was in and out in 15 minutes. Depends on the furnace, high-efficiency furnaces don't have the air intake like your mid-efficiency furnace, they must draw all their air from outside.

[schurchill39]

Any updates? Has it warmed up any?

[clem24]

Originally posted by schurchill39
Any updates? Has it warmed up any?

The difference is significant. Like night and day. It's still not as warm as the mainfloor or second level but that can be attributed to the fewer amounts of heat registers and to the lack of dry walling and lots of windows.