Why are they plowing clean street?!?!

[eblend]

Ever since I moved into the burbs about 5 years ago now, I notice that they keep running plow trucks on residential streets.....long AFTER all the snow is gone! Seriously, I just had a plow truck go by my house, scrapped all the nearly clean and dry asphalt. WTF? They do this every single freaking time.

I asked my buddy who works as an automation technician at the City and deals with these plows and the electronics behind lowering the plow and all that, and when I asked him about it a few years back, he told me, if I remember correctly, that once they set the routes, they have to do them, even if there is no snow, or that it's contracted out or something like that and has to be done. Everyone knows they do the primary routes first and eventually move to residential, but if the snow is gone by that point, wtf is the point of plowing nothing. This sounds to be like a major inefficiency that could save city thousands so that they aren't always crying about the god damn budget, and having no money left for street cleaning before winter even starts, and on top of that raise everyone's property taxes and give themselves a raise.

EDIT: Just as a posted this, another plow went by my house....the opposite direction...like wtf?

[kaput]

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[01RedDX]

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[egmilano]

Worst sound EVERRRRRR :banghead: one after the other too :banghead:

[FraserB]

Private citizens can't plow because of liability.

Carbide blades will spark on the road even with no down pressure on the blade. There is also a reason for the dry blading that involves creating a rougher surface on the road, but can't find the article that backs it up.

[01RedDX]

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[FraserB]

I highly doubt that the average person with a plow has the kind of coverage that would be required. What happens if they hit a power pole and tear down a bunch of lines? Or if they hit a hydrant and the roads and homes nearby flood?

Or are you willing to shoulder the risk since it was you who hired them?

You'll have curbs broken up, gouges in the roads, other damage and no one wanting to pay to fix it.

[01RedDX]

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[blueToy]

Can you imagine the shitshow that would ensue if anyone with their own personal plow could just start plowing the city?


Yeah, I'll just plow all my snow in front of the douch that lives two houses down because I don't like them. Or they looked funny at me. Or their dog barked once. Or their kids are too
perfect etc, etc. You get the idea right. It actually happened last year on our street. The new douches decided to hire out a landcaping company, a old half ton with a plow, and they cleaned up all the snow in front of their house and piled it all in front of someones' house and intersection, so when it thawed/refroze, it became a huge ice pile we had to drive around for weeks after all the other snow melted away, and left huge puddles for most of spring.


The city drivers/plow folks only do what they are told to do. Somewhere up the management chain someone decided to put out a memo telling the workers to plow reguardless of snow . My thoughts are as they haven't plowed the last large snowfall, and it became a good hardpack to drive on, all was good. As its been really nice the last week, its melted and turned into 6-8 inches of slush, and unless you have momentum, you get bogged down in it and more then likely stuck. Get a few new people who aren't used to driving on snow calling cityhall and whining and the memos start flying. Soooo, the formen get shit, the shit flows downhill to drivers/plow folks and they are told to scrape the friggen roads. So they do.

As for why they plow dry roads, my guess is they are either too lazy to lift the blade until the next spot to clean or they are just wearing out blades because they have to spend the budget or it gets slashed next winter. I've even seen city hired out plow trucks ( ULS landscaping ) graveling our neighbourhood while the City trucks were parked at their yard. Again, if they have a pile of unused money sitting because the weather isn't bad, they lose it, and the next bad year people freak out. So they waste it on whatever they can.

[M.alex]

Your increased property taxes hard at work.

[01RedDX]

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[blueToy]

Originally posted by M.alex
Your increased property taxes hard at work.


The City is run like every corporation. There is a budget and you either spend it or it goes away. A lot of managers try saving every penny and cut back on everything. It may work for a year, or even ten. Then you get a winter with lots of snow, and folks bitch like the world is ending if their snow isn't cleaned, to the pavement, by 7am everyday. Weather events are both unpredictable and difficult to budget/prepare for.
Ideal and reality are usually pretty divided for a lot of folks in this city and within the City itself.

[01RedDX]

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[M.alex]

Originally posted by blueToy



The City is run like every corporation. There is a budget and you either spend it or it goes away.

Um, yea, I'm pretty sure that's not how private business runs. :rofl:

[blueToy]

TE]Originally posted by 01RedDX


Yeah, because that's just what would happen. Everyone just plowing the city willy-nilly, look out everyone, here come those rogue plows!

Or you know, you could use some common sense, and have a licensing system for volunteer plow operators in times of heavy snow. Ever heard of volunteer firefighters? As it stands, no such system exists and it probably never will. I wonder why (not really.) [/QUOTE]


It already happens. I know of lots of landscaping companies that are more then happy to take cash in the winter doing whatever they can, and that includes cleaning the snow on the road in front of peoples houses and piling it wherever they can get away with regardless if its legal or not in doing so.


Common sense leaving our snow removal to a bunch of volunteers ? You live in the sticks? What happens if YOU get a call at 11pm on New Years Eve to go plowing your neighbourhood and area? Or you have a child sick at home and its blizzarding out? You going plowing, for free? Or you forget a street on your route , and its blocked and the ambulance or firetruck cant get thru? Say someone dies because of it. Are you liable now? Or you are plowing the road and you hit a manhole and it busts up your truck. You going to pay out of your pocket to fix it? Or lets say you hit a water valve and the lid goes richochetting off like a Al MacInnis slapshot thru two sets of doors of the Eaton Centre downtown. You going to pay for it?

The reason it doesn't exist is because it's a terrible idea. If you think you can do better, I DARE YOU TO TRY. Go ahead and set it up. In this city of what, 1.2 million people and thousands of kilometers of roads to take care of, I bet you have a hard time getting 50 guys to volunteer. And even if they did, give it a few weeks of snow removal and I bet most of the volunteers wouldn't think its such a smart idea. The logistics and liablities of such a venture would be too large to rely on a bunch of volunteers. This isn't shoveling your neighbours walk.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


I don't know of any successful corporations that are being run that way. So it's more like the City is run like an abysmal, wasteful bureaucracy.



Every corporation has its bureaucracy and politics. Some are more wasteful then others. Hell, I've worked for a large construction company here in the city that hired two employees solely to wine/dine potential customers. I thought it was a waste. Brass didn't.
Also, within the City, each department is allocated a yearly budget. Its not like they collect tax money and Santa hands it out freely to those who worked the hardest and left the best cookies.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by M.alex


Um, yea, I'm pretty sure that's not how private business runs. :rofl:



Every corporation I've worked for is or was run this way, and I've worked for many. This isn't some mom and pops shop.

[01RedDX]

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[FraserB]

It boils down to

a. No company or individual is going to do this for free, especially since it would wind up costing them a bunch of money (equipment, maintenance, fuel, dumping fees)
b. The people who would do it for free and at a loss, I doubt you'd want them doing it
c. Private citizens couldn't call up a "volunteer" and ask them to plow a specific part of the road for them, unless you really want to open up the can of worms that Bylaw amendments would create
d. No private citizen or company would be willing to shoulder the liability for free
e. The city already uses private contractors when needed.

[rage2]

It's because we have a bare pavement standard for P1 and P2 routes. This means that even if there's spots on the road with snow and ice they'll plow that road, including the portions with already bare pavement. If some asshole shovels all his snow onto an already clear road and someone calls 311, they'll send out a plow. Silly.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


You seriously need to pull your head out of your ass. What if they called the next guy on the list? What then?



Dude . You have no idea what you are yammering about. You should of tucked tail and bailed from this long ago. Again, you out in the sticks somewhere? Do you realize the scope of what goes on with snow removal? What expertise do you bring to the table other then just beaking off? You are a prime example of where " common sense " isn't so common , unless I was surround by a group of mouth breathers.
Grow up and be respectful of those who tirelessly take care of the important things around you while you ignorantly go on with your life.

[01RedDX]

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[FixedGear]

It's pretty much impossible to claim you're more intelligent than someone else during an argument when you butcher the simplest of punctuation and use incorrect but phonetically similar words. :rofl:

[avishal26]

Originally posted by rage2
{snip}
If some asshole shovels all his snow onto an already clear road and someone calls 311, they'll send out a plow. Silly.

I get so mad when I see this. My neighbour 3 houses down likes to use his snow blower on his driveway and a good 10 feet onto the street - which means his snow blows onto the road in front of my house - making it really deep (this last snowfall we had)

I stared him down for a good 5 minutes last time and he kinda hesitated and only did his driveway for as long as I was out there :rofl:

[spike98]

Originally posted by avishal26


I get so mad when I see this. My neighbour 3 houses down likes to use his snow blower on his driveway and a good 10 feet onto the street - which means his snow blows onto the road in front of my house - making it really deep (this last snowfall we had)

I stared him down for a good 5 minutes last time and he kinda hesitated and only did his driveway for as long as I was out there :rofl:

Snowblowing sucks haha. I blast it all over the neighbors sidewalks and driveways instead of doing it on the road.

But then i do there sidewalks and driveways too blowing the snow between the houses that have more greenspace between them. :thumbsup:

[BlackArcher101]

They plowed my street last night, drove straight down the middle with the blade straight and left two windrows about 2 feet away from the cars on each side. So what was passable as two-way traffic is now effectively one-way.

Thanks CoC plows.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


:rofl:

OK then, so what exactly are your qualifications? So far you've spouted a bunch of easily refutable nonsense. You think running down a budget needlessly just so you get the same one the following year is normal business practice. Prove to me that it's not a wasteful practice resulting from a hopeless bureaucracy. Show me how it's efficient.

Do you work for the city? Where exactly is your "expertise" coming from?

Please, humble me with your knowledge. Thanks in advance.



Since you asked. First time I went out plowing for the City ( worked for a local road builder who had a contract to help clean district one ) was in 1989. Since then I've gone out hundreds of times for various contractors, mostly running grader but have at times also operated front end loaders, bobcats, plow trucks, backhoes. I've met lots of Roads department supers and foremen, and heaps of operators and truck drivers. Also, worked a year plowing the roads/highways around Jasper for Parks Canada. I've moved a lot of snow!


I can't prove that the City doesn't waste money. I know for a fact that they do. To some degree its part of every company Ive ever worked for. You show me ONE company where every single employee is a hero and works every moment of their work day. Go ahead.

Anyway, its not the wasteful practices of the City that got me into this thread. Its you stating they should use volunteers to plow when it gets bad and that was just commen sense. I still think its a laughable idea, but all the power to you to go ahead and try to organize it. Bet you don't get far.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by BlackArcher101
They plowed my street last night, drove straight down the middle with the blade straight and left two windrows about 2 feet away from the cars on each side. So what was passable as two-way traffic is now effectively one-way.

Thanks CoC plows.



Its usually not up to the plow drivers/operators. The decision to ' clean curb to curb' come way up the management chain of command. Sometimes the district foremen makes the call, but not often. I've attended many a meetings where the plow folks on the ground are not happy to be told by a memo from a cubical dweller what to do. That being said though, call 311 and file a complaint. They are there for a reason and it sometimes works, especially if you can get your neighbours or whole block calling in.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by blueToy
Its usually not up to the plow drivers/operators. The decision to ' clean curb to curb' come way up the management chain of command. Sometimes the district foremen makes the call, but not often. I've attended many a meetings where the plow folks on the ground are not happy to be told by a memo from a cubical dweller what to do. That being said though, call 311 and file a complaint. They are there for a reason and it sometimes works, especially if you can get your neighbours or whole block calling in.

Have we established you work for The City? I know you were asked but can't remember if you answered. I can't figure any other reason you so adamantly defend practices that are clearly wasteful. "Well I've worked for other companies that squander money to, so....." Not a real strong argument :rofl:

[Alterac]

Originally posted by avishal26
I get so mad when I see this. My neighbour 3 houses down likes to use his snow blower on his driveway and a good 10 feet onto the street - which means his snow blows onto the road in front of my house - making it really deep (this last snowfall we had)

I stared him down for a good 5 minutes last time and he kinda hesitated and only did his driveway for as long as I was out there :rofl:

I plow the apron for my driveway onto the street.

The reason I do it, is so we can see the oncoming traffic on the street while backing out of the driveway.

If I put all the snow onto the little patch of grass between our sidewalk and the street it piles up miles, because this is where the city pushes all the snow from the street.

Technically, I can clear all of my sidewalks onto the road.


BYLAW NUMBER 20M88
67.(7) The owner or occupant of a parcel of land adjacent to a Street may remove ice and snow from the Sidewalk or Pathway adjacent to the parcel and place it on the Roadway or Boulevard of a Street but shall not remove any ice or snow from the rest of the parcel and place it on the Roadway or Boulevard of a Street.

Someone must have removed all the snow from their grass one time, and made them word this how it is.

[ExtraSlow]

Areas with front driveways are a shit-show for this, as there is not enough grass to pile the snow on.

A guy in my area, on a corner lot, shovels all the snow from the road and the sidewalks in front of his place up onto his grass. His road is always bare and dry after the first sunny day. Not sure why he bothers, but he's been doing it for years. Must take him hours, as he has a lot of frontage.

[01RedDX]

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