Shaganappi Tr "upgrades" HOV, Bike lanes

[mr2mike]

So it's no secret they're putting in HOV and bike lanes on this major artery. My bigger beef is the new developments North of this "upgraded plan". The new developments North of Stoney Trail.

https://goo.gl/maps/yJ0MH

They KNOW this will be bottle necked and there's got to be about 50,000+ people about to live in this new area where there's a large amount of higher density condos and townhouses going in.

So they decided to allow for a two lane divided road in and out of the area. WTF?!?

Why can't the city even once, think to add a commuter bus lane or something to make it three lanes across. It won't be busy yet but it will be. They just expect everyone to use the "by pass road" stoney tr once they get to it.

Drove up there a while back and thought, these people are so screwed on their commute out.

[schocker]

The HOV lanes are supposed to be in sections with 3 lanes though so still 2 normal lanes. They couldn't extend it currently further than country hills. (Assuming extra lane built on southbound downhill and northbound downhill. The bridge over stoney is already a major bottleneck though, that second bridge needs to be built sooner than later.

[Xtrema]

Meh, they need to fix Beddington tr before they need to fix Shag. It just comes with the territory if you live north of Stoney.

[rob the knob]

time to buy a new bicycle so i can bicycle more. even more clothing for coldest days

[rage2]

City has gone full retard. The bike infrastructure 400m west of Shaganappi is terrific. Starts at home road, up to 53rd, through the valley, and up Dalhousie. I grew up riding that route, and still use it today when riding to work. There is zero need for bike lanes on Shaganappi, unless of course you want to do cardio breathing in exhaust.

The HOV lanes shared with busses is retarded too. Totally pointless, and probably slower than the regular lanes. Get rid of the bike lane, then have a dedicated HOV lane and a bus lane like on Crowchild south around the old Children's Hospital. Way more effective.

[M.alex]

Can we close 1 lane on MacLeod Trail and make it a dedicated bike line?

[rage2]

If we keep trying to copy Vancouver, it'll happen in no time.

[sneek]

Originally posted by rage2
City has gone full retard. The bike infrastructure 400m west of Shaganappi is terrific. Starts at home road, up to 53rd, through the valley, and up Dalhousie. I grew up riding that route, and still use it today when riding to work. There is zero need for bike lanes on Shaganappi, unless of course you want to do cardio breathing in exhaust.

The HOV lanes shared with busses is retarded too. Totally pointless, and probably slower than the regular lanes. Get rid of the bike lane, then have a dedicated HOV lane and a bus lane like on Crowchild south around the old Children's Hospital. Way more effective.

+1 I ride this route all the time. The only issue is that they plow snow into the bike lane in Varsity so it would be a difficult ride in winter. I don't bike in the winter so it doesn't impact me.

[FixedGear]

I agree with the rest of the comments in this thread. screw these urban planners and their progressive, forward-looking ideas. If I had it my way, we'd cut all the fences and live like real albertans. free range, baby! i suppose there really isn't a use for roads if everyone can ride horses.

[rage2]

Originally posted by sneek
+1 I ride this route all the time. The only issue is that they plow snow into the bike lane in Varsity so it would be a difficult ride in winter. I don't bike in the winter so it doesn't impact me.
Building new bike lanes because they shovel snow on it would be like having to buy new clothes because I don't do laundry haha.

Seriously, I love that bike path, it's a beautiful ride, and away from heavy traffic, and serves the exact same purpose as one on Shaganappi.

[benyl]

Where is all this capacity going to go? Memorial is a clusterfuck. Crowchild has a ridiculous bottleneck at UofC / McMahon and the Bow river.

[Canmorite]

I remember reading on the article that after all is this is done, they want to reduce speed limits as well.


To keep everyone safer, speed limits will also be reduced. :rofl: :banghead:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1781564/major-upgrade-proposed-for-shaganappi-trail/

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by M.alex
Can we close 1 lane on MacLeod Trail and make it a dedicated bike line?

Would it be the biggest surprise if someone from City Hall proposed just that? Nope.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by FixedGear
i suppose there really isn't a use for roads if everyone can ride horses.
Too bad everyone here thinks they have the right to operate 3000 tonne metal horses with zero skill nor intention to improve.


Originally posted by mr2mike
Why can't the city even once, think to add a commuter bus lane or something to make it three lanes across. It won't be busy yet but it will be.
Is ANYTHING around here proactive vs reactive?

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by FixedGear
I agree with the rest of the comments in this thread. screw these urban planners and their progressive, forward-looking ideas. If I had it my way, we'd cut all the fences and live like real albertans. free range, baby! i suppose there really isn't a use for roads if everyone can ride horses.
Hyperbole much:rofl:

Let me try!

Fixed gear is right, bike lanes at any cost, by choosing a bike as my mode of transportation I'm saying I'm better than you, and because my bike is a fixed gear I'm even better than normal cyclists, I won't be happy until Calgary is turned into a Green Utopia free of the automobile and the Neanderthals that drive them, even if the cycle infrastructure is under utilized and bankrupts the city, it'll be worth it to feel superior. We need to ignore the epic failures in design and implementation and blindly support the initiative, force it on the vast majority that oppose it, because our small community knows what's good for them even if they don't. Let's ignore demographics, fundamental city design, and climate to turn this back water hick town into a city reminiscent of those European destinations we all visited while we tried to "find ourselves" after high school . Ride or die.

[schocker]

Originally posted by Canmorite
I remember reading on the article that after all is this is done, they want to reduce speed limits as well.

:rofl: :banghead:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1781564/major-upgrade-proposed-for-shaganappi-trail/
70 is 2speedy4me :rofl:
So stupid. I imagine the 80 zone from john laurie to stoney would also be reduced to say 60 for safety :banghead:

[kenny]

Originally posted by jwslam
Is ANYTHING around here proactive vs reactive?

Whenever the city builds infrastructure proactively its a "waste of money" and when they build infrastructure too late down the road, we ask why they didn't build it earlier.

Lose-Lose situation for the City :)

[jwslam]

Originally posted by kenny
Whenever the city builds infrastructure proactively its a "waste of money" and when they build infrastructure too late down the road, we ask why they didn't build it earlier.

Lose-Lose situation for the City :)
Because common folk don't understand stuff is MUCH cheaper to do once properly and you don't have to do it twice to still have it wrong.
(I'm too lazy to fix that sentence; yes I know it's engineer english)

[Moonracer]

Originally posted by kenny


Whenever the city builds infrastructure proactively its a "waste of money" and when they build infrastructure too late down the road, we ask why they didn't build it earlier.

Lose-Lose situation for the City :)

:werd:

[ExtraSlow]

Who gives a fuck what life is like for people who choose to live 20km from the city centre.

#hater4lyfe

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Let's ignore demographics, fundamental city design, and climate to turn this back water hick town into a city reminiscent of those European destinations we all visited while we tried to "find ourselves" after high school . Ride or die.

Most of these cities didn't start their transformations into multi-mode havens until the 60s when Jan Gehl started it off in Copenhagen by putting in bike lanes, reclaiming intersections as public squares and converting car streets into pedestrian streets. (So in other words, they turned backwater hick towns, often cases literal back waters, into vibrant urban destinations. Who woulda thunk)?

In this case, 1.7% of a budget to upgrade a 6-lane road that goes by the University will be used to put in bike lanes...the horror. The horror.

[rage2]

Originally posted by jwslam
Because common folk don't understand stuff is MUCH cheaper to do once properly and you don't have to do it twice to still have it wrong.
(I'm too lazy to fix that sentence; yes I know it's engineer english)
You can't reasonably overbuild that far into the future. We would go broke building all of our current infrastructure projects with 30 years into the future in mind when we have an estimated population of 2.5m residents.

Originally posted by kertejud2
In this case, 1.7% of a budget to upgrade a 6-lane road that goes by the University will be used to put in bike lanes...the horror. The horror.
It's not the money that's the issue, it's the terrible use of space that's the problem.

[suntan]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Most of these cities didn't start their transformations into multi-mode havens until the 60s when Jan Gehl started it off in Copenhagen by putting in bike lanes, reclaiming intersections as public squares and converting car streets into pedestrian streets. (So in other words, they turned backwater hick towns, often cases literal back waters, into vibrant urban destinations. Who woulda thunk)?

In this case, 1.7% of a budget to upgrade a 6-lane road that goes by the University will be used to put in bike lanes...the horror. The horror. Denmark also has a 25% sales tax.

But please prattle on with your usual pile of shit about how "RECLAIM THE SPACE!" somehow leads to a lower cost of living.

And WTF is a literal back water? Are you talking about Mexicans ya dumb fuck?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by suntan
Denmark also has a 25% sales tax.

Yeah, so? A 5% sales tax would pay for the SW Ring Road here in Alberta, maybe we should implement one?


But please prattle on with your usual pile of shit about how "RECLAIM THE SPACE!" somehow leads to a lower cost of living.

Reclaiming the space is more about quality of life. Mobility, increased employment choice, ability to lead a healthier lifestyle. Then it also gives the benefit of not needing a car which is the most direct way to lower one's cost of living. When you design a city around the car it makes it pretty expensive to increase people's transportation options after things get spread out.

In a case of adding a bike lane here, if you're one of the thousands of people who work at Market Mall, the University, Children's Hospital or Foothills have a larger area where they can choose to live and still take advantage of many transportation options, which can make their lives cheaper if they wish. Two bike lanes aren't enough space for another car lane, so no drivers were harmed in the planning of this upgrade either.


And WTF is a literal back water? Are you talking about Mexicans ya dumb fuck?

As in, where a river has little to no current and doesn't go anywhere, often pushed back by the tide (i.e. many of the large waterways in European cities).

Ya racist dumb fuck.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2
In a case of adding a bike lane here, if you're one of the thousands of people who work at Market Mall, the University, Children's Hospital or Foothills have a larger area where they can choose to live and still take advantage of many transportation options, which can make their lives cheaper if they wish. Two bike lanes aren't enough space for another car lane, so no drivers were harmed in the planning of this upgrade either.

Did you read Rages posts? It's not needed, better routes with far less traffic already exist. I've lived in this area 30+ years I can get to all the places you mentioned and never once deal with Shaganappi and its traffic. It's just another example of the city pushing this shit through with complete disregard for its actual functionality. Either that or the engineers behind this plan share a single brain cell.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Did you read Rages posts? It's not needed, better routes with far less traffic already exist. I've lived in this area 30+ years I can get to all the places you mentioned and never once deal with Shaganappi and its traffic. It's just another example of the city pushing this shit through with complete disregard for its actual functionality. Either that or the engineers behind this plan share a single brain cell.

What functionality is being disregarded by these bike lanes?

-They aren't taking away vehicle lanes, so vehicle functionality isn't affected
-They separate cyclists from traffic, which is what cyclists want (and what drivers want)
-It connects multiple routes to create a fast transport lane for cyclists (kind of like how the road does for cars)


So...what's your problem with it? Just because there are other ways to get there doesn't mean they are good or can't be made better. Might as well use the same arguments for roads then, no? Why do we need the Ring Road, there are perfectly good roads that can be used mere minutes away?

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2


What functionality is being disregarded by these bike lanes?

-They aren't taking away vehicle lanes, so vehicle functionality isn't affected
-They separate cyclists from traffic, which is what cyclists want (and what drivers want)
-It connects multiple routes to create a fast transport lane for cyclists (kind of like how the road does for cars)


So...what's your problem with it? Just because there are other ways to get there doesn't mean they are good or can't be made better. Might as well use the same arguments for roads then, no? Why do we need the Ring Road, there are perfectly good roads that can be used mere minutes away?

You're not really listening. The Shaganappi lane will be a LESS viable option compared to existing routes, that's the whole point. I have no issue whatsoever spending money on those existing routes. I've now said a number of times I see plenty of riders on Northmount Dr. And on 53rd St. I would have no issue if bike lanes were installed there, but they weren't. Instead they were installed on Northland drive, a route nobody uses, never did, and doesn't go anywhere. Take the money they're going to spend on this new lane and spend it on the pathways currently being used. It just makes sense. Spending money on a less viable option is just fucking stupid. It would be like spending the money on the ring road, then installing a speed bump every 5' and refusing to pave it, everyone will just keep using the old routes. I see it everyday, no riders in the dedicated lane, 10 riders battling traffic on a road with no shoulder, parked cars and snow banks 3 blocks away. How the fuck does that happen? How can the city get it that wrong?

[jwslam]

https://metronewsca.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/shagredesignweb.jpg
http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1267751/calgary-green-lights-long-term-plan-for-shaganappi-trail-with-hov-lanes-cycle-tracks/

[ExtraSlow]

why the fuck do we need 2.7m of separation between the cycle track and the sidewalk? Plus concrete curbs it looks like?

Drop that shit to 1m, keep the 4.5M centre median, keep the total wide at 45.2m and boom, you have room for an extra lane of traffic each way.

[schocker]

Look at that, actually planning it properly to allow for traffic, cyclists and pedestrians. Color me impressed. Proposed $73mm for only 16th to crowchild though $$$. So many right turns though on that road for the HOV lane people will always be cutting in and out to merge/exit.

[rage2]

Why is the HOV lane on the right? Am I missing something here?

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by rage2
Why is the HOV lane on the right? Am I missing something here?

Because the CoC doesn't understand the purpose or point of HOV lanes. And mainly because then they can designate it a bus lane. Which is sort of OK (except for riding the bus), this is how all HOV lanes are in edmonton and the buses FLY past all the traffic :rofl:

Of course, if it was just an additional lane, it would allow EVERYONE to get where they are going quicker.

Shitty social engineering is shitty.

[ExtraSlow]

SO busses can stop in the lane. It's not a real HOV lane like you see in California freeways.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by rage2
Why is the HOV lane on the right? Am I missing something here? After living in areas that have had both (some of the right and some on the left) I surprisingly found the ones on the right to be more effective. The ones on the left would always get backed up before exits as HOV users had to slow right down to merge back into the more congested lanes to get to their exit while with the right side HOV lanes, there was a length before exits and after entrances that you would be allowed to use as a single occupant vehicle and it seemed less traffic obstructing overall...

Now this of course is my own personal observations and not scientific study so take it for what it is...

[rx7_turbo2]

Coun. Druh Farrell said “people are confused” by the existing “buffered bike lanes” on nearby Northmount Drive and inquired if these lanes would be more understandable to motorists.
:rofl:

The third iteration of these lanes and another half million bucks and The City will figure out how fucking pointless these lanes are and rip them out.

Between the proposed Shag mods, Northland bike lane debacle and the $6mil pedestrian bridge that's too short, The City sure knows how to completely squander money up in my neck of the woods. The people that run this city have completely lost the plot.