No jail for coward police officer convicted of assault

[Modelexis]

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/01/29/no-jail-for-toronto-police-officer-convicted-of-g20-assault.html

After 4.5 years!


Superior Court Justice Brian O’Marra on Thursday overturned the 45-day jail sentence and instead ordered Const. Babak Andalib-Goortani, 34, to serve a year of probation and perform 75 hours of community service.

Andalib-Goortani expects to be returning to work as a police officer shortly, his lawyer told the court.

Give this man a badge and a gun, who cares if he's a convicted criminal?


Andalib-Goortani faced a second assault charge for allegedly striking a woman with his baton but was acquitted after a photograph critical to the case was excluded from evidence.


Are police held to a higher standard than regular citizens? or the opposite?

and just for the lolz:

Andalib-Goortani will return to court on Feb. 27, where his lawyers will argue that he should not have to provide a DNA sample under a court order.

Webb said they expect to argue that such an order would be a violation of Andalib-Goortani’s privacy rights.

Doesn't beyond always say that when you commit a crime you give up your rights?

[FraserB]

He was convicted.

Either way, he's entitled to the same vigorous defense that anyone is in Canada. We don't know why evidence was excluded and the appeal was successful on a misapplication of law, not his status as a police officer.

[Seth1968]

[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-confessions/

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by FraserB
He was convicted.

Either way, he's entitled to the same vigorous defense that anyone is in Canada. We don't know why evidence was excluded and the appeal was successful on a misapplication of law, not his status as a police officer.

Could you afford to hire Alan Gold as your lawyer?
How much does this cop make to afford it? Are the police paying for the lawyer?
99% of Canada does not have access to lawyers of this caliber.

[OU812]

Meh, it's part of the risk of the job.

What else is on?

[revelations]

Originally posted by OU812
Meh, it's part of the risk of the job.

What else is on?

Best response this week :D

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by OU812
Meh, it's part of the risk of the job.

What else is on? lol, aren't you the guy who thought that regular citizens don't lose their pay when they're accused of a crime?
Originally posted by OU812 paid after being charged? Does anyone else lose their pay after being accused of something? Why should they?Keep fightin' the good fight!

I bet you also think that all unions pay the most expensive lawyers in Canada to fight cases where their members are caught committing crimes. lol, I wanna see the pipefitter union pay Alan Gold to fight a case where a welder is caught assaulting someone while they're on the clock.

Ok joe pipefitter, it doesn't look good for you, there is video evidence of you assaulting someone while you were on the job getting paid. What we're going to do is put you on a temporary paid vacation for 4.5 years and hire a Lawyer that costs millions of dollars in order to make sure that you don't see even one single day inside of a jail cell. After that we're going to try and get you your old job back.

Justice is served!

[Nitro5]

The fare comparison is if the pipefitter is being sued for something in relation of his job. Would the Union back a member who is named in a law suit in relation to the work he did?

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by OU812
Meh, it's part of the risk of the job.

What else is on?


:rofl:

[Traffic_Cop]

Originally posted by Modelexis
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/01/29/no-jail-for-toronto-police-officer-convicted-of-g20-assault.html

After 4.5 years!



Give this man a badge and a gun, who cares if he's a convicted criminal?




Are police held to a higher standard than regular citizens? or the opposite?

and just for the lolz:


Doesn't beyond always say that when you commit a crime you give up your rights?

Your such an idiot!! Have you seen the videos of this? Im blown away it went court. I worked the G20 in Toronto. You have no idea about the real world. Once again, i'd love to have watch you stand beside me and watch you poop your pants as the petrol bombs flew and buildings got ransacked.

Mod....you are a muppet!

Edit:- heres a reality check. I worked this. So stop telling me your honest anarchist ways. You'd last a minute, and heres what we dealt with :-

http://youtu.be/I-h-YIj4jRw

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Traffic_Cop
Your such an idiot!! Have you seen the videos of this? Im blown away it went court.

I'm blown away minor drug possession charges go to court
I'm blown away illegal gambling goes to court
I'm blown away speeding on an empty road goes to court

Time to have empathy for the lives you and your mafia ruin on a daily basis. The guy with 2 grams of pot in his pocket doesn't get a union to spend millions of dollars fighting the case.

You funnel innocent people into the system, it's time one of your gang members got a taste of the lives they've ruined for no good reason.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Modelexis
lol, aren't you the guy who thought that regular citizens don't lose their pay when they're accused of a crime?Keep fightin' the good fight!

I bet you also think that all unions pay the most expensive lawyers in Canada to fight cases where their members are caught committing crimes. lol, I wanna see the pipefitter union pay Alan Gold to fight a case where a welder is caught assaulting someone while they're on the clock.

Ok joe pipefitter, it doesn't look good for you, there is video evidence of you assaulting someone while you were on the job getting paid. What we're going to do is put you on a temporary paid vacation for 4.5 years and hire a Lawyer that costs millions of dollars in order to make sure that you don't see even one single day inside of a jail cell. After that we're going to try and get you your old job back.

Justice is served!

First off, he was suspended without pay for the last 14 months. Your example of using a trade as a direct example to this situation is ludicrous, it's not even remotely similar.

If the police union helped him out with legal fess, it is irrelevant. It's their money collected from dues and theirs to disperse and spend as they see fit. No taxpayer money goes to the union and I doubt you pay dues, so it's no one's business what that money is spent on.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by FraserB
First off, he was suspended without pay for the last 14 months. Your example of using a trade as a direct example to this situation is ludicrous, it's not even remotely similar.

If the police union helped him out with legal fess, it is irrelevant. It's their money collected from dues and theirs to disperse and spend as they see fit. No taxpayer money goes to the union and I doubt you pay dues, so it's no one's business what that money is spent on.

so he got 30 months of paid vacation, show me a private company that gives their employee that when they've been charged with criminal activity while on the job.

You're right that the trades, or mall security or G4S don't have a monopoly juggernaut union capable of spending millions of dollars in lawyer fees each time a their employee is criminally charged. That's what I'm pointing out is the problem, these cops are untouchable, and they act like it.
Police know they have the power of the best lawyers money can buy so they walk around with this arrogance knowing that they cannot be touched and will never see jail.

[FraserB]

Well, it's been proven time and again that police aren't "untouchable", so that argument is out. And it seems like you don't understand he simply won't go right back to work after this.

What would you propose? Tell the police that when they sign up, all their Charter rights are suspended? You're basically saying that because of someone's job, they should not have the right to defend themselves against charges.

Whether or not someone can afford the best is irrelevant. Are you going to complain that a member of the public who does have funds can get a better lawyer that the unemployed person who commits the same crime?

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by FraserB
Well, it's been proven time and again that police aren't "untouchable", so that argument is out. And it seems like you don't understand he simply won't go right back to work after this.

What would you propose? Tell the police that when they sign up, all their Charter rights are suspended? You're basically saying that because of someone's job, they should not have the right to defend themselves against charges.

Whether or not someone can afford the best is irrelevant. Are you going to complain that a member of the public who does have funds can get a better lawyer that the unemployed person who commits the same crime?

I propose that if police are ever found guilty in court for a crime, they should lose their job instantly, pay back all the money they received in paid leave and they should have to serve the maximum penalty the court decides. There should be a special set of penalties for police that is more punishing than for civilians. We should hold them to a higher standard. They should also be required to give a public apology on national TV.

They should be banned for life from owning guns and ammo and they should never be permitted to work in any law enforcement again.

For starters.

Separate firearm laws for cops? Separate criminal punishments.

[jabjab]

Put all the crooked cops in one pot and burn them!!!:whipped: :guns:

On a serious note, what needs to be done for things like this to stop happening? Police are normal human beings and somehow are never held accountable for mistakes and lapses of judgement that normal people make.

Something needs to change.

[OU812]

Originally posted by Modelexis
lol, aren't you the guy who thought that regular citizens don't lose their pay when they're accused of a crime?Keep fightin' the good fight!

I bet you also think that all unions pay the most expensive lawyers in Canada to fight cases where their members are caught committing crimes. lol, I wanna see the pipefitter union pay Alan Gold to fight a case where a welder is caught assaulting someone while they're on the clock.

Ok joe pipefitter, it doesn't look good for you, there is video evidence of you assaulting someone while you were on the job getting paid. What we're going to do is put you on a temporary paid vacation for 4.5 years and hire a Lawyer that costs millions of dollars in order to make sure that you don't see even one single day inside of a jail cell. After that we're going to try and get you your old job back.

Justice is served!

Call the Wahbulance!! Unions should be hiring the best "anything" for their members. Thats their purpose.

I know lots of people who have been charged with assault. Guess how many lost their jobs? 0

The time it takes to go through court is not the accused responsability, blame the courts.

BTW Mod, you have such a hardon for the "mafia" What did you get charged and convicited of?

[P_D]

Originally posted by OU812
BTW Mod, you have such a hardon for the "mafia" What did you get charged and convicted of?

He probably got a tint ticket lol

[Arash Boodagh]

Typical ZioAmerica... including the sheeple responses here.
Also as if provocateur were'nt fully active that day making the protestor arrests justified.

Things like this happens every few weeks... there should be a police state sticky thread to educate forum members of what kind of society we live in.
Google this one
"Elderly Man Arrested for No Reason While Walking Down Street in Seattle"
via BestGore

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh

Things like this happens every few weeks

No, every second.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by OU812
I know lots of people who have been charged with assault. Guess how many lost their jobs? 0lol, how do you know so many violent people?

Did they assault someone while they were at work on the clock?

[JAYMEZ]

Stop with the personal attacks in this thread and keep to the facts, or it'll be closed

[OU812]

Originally posted by Arash Boodagh


Things like this happens every few weeks

What? Dumb posts by you?

[Arash Boodagh]

Police brutality (assault) happens all the time and rarely are there any consequences.
Dumb is also the person that thinks Canada is a sovereign country.

Meanwhile in the states...
Jailed for Life for Stealing a $159 Jacket?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_fO4Bw4XU8
3 strike rule.

[OU812]

Originally posted by Modelexis
lol, how do you know so many violent people?

Did they assault someone while they were at work on the clock?


uhmm? Were talking about common/simple assault. Not so uncommon.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by OU812
uhmm? Were talking about common/simple assault. Not so uncommon. What about the second part of that post, were they working at the time of the simple assault?

[01RedDX]

.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Is their job ENFORCEMENT of public order?

It makes it even worse if your job is to enforce public order and you are assaulting the public.
You know the laws better than anyone, it's like a priest raping a child, you're abusing your power and you claim to be a mentor for children.

You're trying to excuse away a criminal act, did you really think I was going to buy that nonsense?

[01RedDX]

.

[Modelexis]

It's not a false parallel, you haven't shown anything.

The job of a mall cop is civilian order, that doesn't give him a licence to criminally assault someone. Does a mall cop lose their job if they commit criminal assault against a mall customer?
You're trying to defend a statement you didn't even make, you're white knighting for a guy who made a statement that he hasn't backed up.

This cop was on the clock when he committed this crime, his regular job duties don't make a crime any less serious, if anything they make it more serious because they are unjustly trusted to be the watchers and not the criminals.
The case could be made that his fellow officers should have arrested him on the spot when they saw his actions, if they saw him assault this person.

Show me any news story where any public employee in society is charged of assault while on the job and doesn't lose their job before the case even goes to court.

[01RedDX]

.

[Modelexis]

The courts reviewed all evidence and it was determined to be a criminal action, and this is the same courts that have a conflict of interest to favor the police over regular citizens.

Mall cop can use force as well, if some guy is damaging property he can use force to remove him from the mall. Doesn't mean he can give him a few dirty shots in the parking lot afterwards. If some guy is shoplifting that doesn't give mall cops the authority to walk up and uppercut the guy, that shit only goes down at red lobster.

[01RedDX]

.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
OK! Fair enough, my point isn't that the assault was or wasn't justified, it's drawing a parallel between someone whose job involves the use of force vs. someone who is an office worker or whatever those people that OU182 was talking about do.


Originally posted by Modelexis
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/alberta/Chinook+Centre+fires+guard+after+security+altercation+further+discpiline+possible/8122039/story.html

The security guard was fired, even though he faced no charges, he was not found guilty or even charged with any crimes. He was not investigated and put on desk duty with pay, he was fired. Police who were called to the scene agreed that the security guard did nothing wrong.

“We take this matter very seriously and . . . our priority is to ensure the safety of all patrons, tenants and staff.”

[FraserB]

Police are authorized to use force as part of their duties. Mall rent a cops are not.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by FraserB
Police are authorized to use force as part of their duties. Mall rent a cops are not.

Instead of debate that with you since I'm not a mall cop I can simply point to club bouncers, they're authorized and trained to force you out of the club if you're causing a disruption.

Everyone in society is authorized to use force, police simply have an expanded set of instances where they're allowed to use force. Civilians have a more limited use of force that is legally restricted to self defense. The main difference is police are allowed to initiate force upon peaceful citizens, but even with this legal monopoly of initiating force they're still not permitted by law to take cheap shots and assault people beyond what their training permits.

The same is with guns, civilians can carry guns on their hip, but they're restricted to within the walls of the gun shop or their home or in public if they're a brinks driver or G4S.
That's why you cannot make the case that police carrying guns should afford them less harsh penalties for committing a crime with a gun. Civilians can carry guns as well but doing so does not afford them any sympathy for criminal activity.

If you try to streak at a Stampeders game you will find out very quickly that a lot of civilians are authorized to use force and while police may be present in the building, they're probably getting a chili dog and won't be able to respond right away so you'll be hauled down by whoever catches you.

[Nitro5]

I love the chili dog quip. You can't go for a minute without showing complete contempt for the police. It cheapens your point because it shows you are posting on an emotional level instead of being objective. This is a prime example of why no one takes you seriously.

[speedog]

Fool, once again the fool is surmising about the police and this time with respect to what a police officer might or might not be doing at a Stampeder's game. I say fool because I am quite a bit more intimately involved in what goes on in behind the scenes at a Stampeder's game than most (including most likely the fool) and am well aware of whom is consuming chili dogs and whom is not.

[theken]

Perhaps if people in general weren't so violent then the people that are there to control the violence wouldn't have to be so violent to stop the violence.....

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Nitro5
I love the chili dog quip. You can't go for a minute without showing complete contempt for the police. It cheapens your point because it shows you are posting on an emotional level instead of being objective. This is a prime example of why no one takes you seriously. Your post is a prime example of a beyond member looking for any excuse to avoid putting together any rational counter points to an argument. Most people on beyond would rather make comments about my tone than comments about the content of my points.

You can't actually tell me that before that comment you thought I had respect for police. I don't respect religion or politicians but I can debate those issues better than anyone on this forum. You might respect the police but it's not respect that was earned, you were taught as a kid that the police were good guys and you can't challenge that narrative you were fed.

If you were born into a mafia family you would look at the police as the bad guys, and you wouldn't question that narrative either. Neither of those positions would be rational, but in the case of the narrative fed to you by your mafia family it happens to be accurate but without knowing the philosophy behind the conclusion you're still just accidentally right about the nature of the police.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Modelexis ~snip~ You've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's no point in arguing with crazy. Face it, you've fast become that guy ranting on the street corner that nobody is willing to make eye contact with as they walk by.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by codetrap
You've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's no point in arguing with crazy. Face it, you've fast become that guy ranting on the street corner that nobody is willing to make eye contact with as they walk by. Why are you walking up to this person you claim is crazy and attempting to tell them they are crazy when you see everyone walking by not making eye contact? Isn't the person that tries to reason with crazy also crazy?

Would you go to a pschy ward and try to tell the patients that there is no brown fox with wings flying around the room? What do you call the person that continually engages the person that 'everyone knows is crazy'?

You don't believe in objective concepts so I wonder how you can get to a place where you can objectively claim that I'm crazy since you would claim crazy and healthy are purely subjective concepts. I think I'm healthy, you think I'm crazy, both our opinions right? who is correct?

[OU812]

Originally posted by OU812

BTW Mod, you have such a hardon for the "mafia" What did you get charged and convicited of?

Still waiting.

[Modelexis]

I've never been charged with a crime, I'm part of the class of people who are RPAL holders and have regular criminal record checks done that would see all my guns seized if I was ever caught up in the law.

[FraserB]

FWIW, the continuous eligibility part of firearms licensing requires a police report involving violence and a license holder to be entered into CPIC before the appropriate CFO is notified. It's an interface between CPIC and the CFP database, not a check of each licensee each day. A criminal record check each day would be unless since the time between incident and conviction could be a while.

And being "caught up in the law" doesn't mean an automatic revocation of firearms or a license.