Is this Audi S4 wagon worth buying? Needs an engine.

[CanmoreOrLess]

I am looking for a 2004-2008 Audi S4, taking my time.

Found this 2004 Audi S4 Avant 6MT wagon, needs an engine. I don't have the experience or time to do an engine swap, it would have to be done by a skilled mechanic. So is this Audi worth buying? I have no idea what an engine plus labour would be worth. Also, will an engine replacement be a negative on any resale in 2020?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/calgary/2004-audi-s4-avant-6mt/1049544512?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Description:

Private Sale
RARE: Audi B6 S4 Avant Black w/ Manual 6 Speed transmission

4.2L V8 engine, Quattro all-wheel drive, Recaro leather interior: black leather + grey Alcantra inserts

Canadian car with heated front and rear RECARO seats
Clean body, clean interior, documented vehicle history


$12,000 in aftermarket parts and recent upgrades (within the last 20,000 kms)

• Varrstoen ES1 19” x 9.5” wheels on 235/35 R19 Conti’s
• H&R coilovers
• Fast intentions Cat Back exhaust
• Trexturk Catless downpipes
• JHM solid short throw shifter
• Solid snub mount
• E code HID Bi-Xenon Headlights with clear projector lens
• Matching Adams Sport II slotted rotors and pads (front and rear)
• Full 30% tint all around
• New clutch and Flywheel
• Professionally rolled fenders for tight seamless fit

The low Canadian Dollar (79 cents) has made American and Euro made aftermarket parts increasingly more expensive. Price them out and compare. Good value on the purchase of the parts alone.

The car runs and drives but is noticibly down on power.
THE VEHICLE HAS BEEN DIAGNOSED BY AN AUDI MECHANIC AND ENGINE IS DAMAGED AND NOT REPAIRABLE.
WILL REQUIRE AN ENGINE SWAP

Please do your homework before contacting me. The Audi forums are full of free information on the motor swap because of common timing chain issues. All B6 and B7 Audi S4 4.2L motors with timing chain assemblies will fit (2004 - 2008). Good low km used engines are available on ebay / wreckers. Great opportunity for the DIY mechanic - removal and installation of the motor is half the cost of replacement.

If you own or know of a damaged S4 (hail, rust, transmission failure, car accident) or have a boring sedan with ugly interior / exterior color and a tired tiptronic this is your opportunity to swap the motor to a clean custom B6 S4 AVANT 6 SPEED MANUAL.

This tastefully customized clean Euro sportwagon turns heads and gets comments everywhere it goes.
Car show season is coming. Great winter project.

The car is being sold complete.

$7,500 Private sale, No GST.

Please no trades.
The car will not be parted out.
The wheels are not available separately.

[DeleriousZ]

Had my eye on that one for a while. If you don't mind the whole timing chain deal on those engines, it could be? expensive as hell to do them tho.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess
I don't have the experience or time to do an engine swap, it would have to be done by a skilled mechanic.

This is the part that makes it not worth it, unless you can argue him down to 5g or less.

[CanmoreOrLess]

This one in SK, far lower KMs, better colour at $21K:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/regina/2007-audi-s4-avant-wagon/1040940934?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


This is the part that makes it not worth it, unless you can argue him down to 5g or less.

My only previous engine swap cost me a case of beer. An Audi engine swap... I'll need a 5 ton truck full of beer?

[ercchry]

how the hell is that $12k in parts?!

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by ercchry
how the hell is that $12k in parts?!

Local retail, including installation I'm assuming.

I just noticed the kms on the first one, I wouldn't touch it personally (even doing the swap for a case of beer). Add 5 years of driving on top of 245k kms, and it won't be worth jack shit in 2020.

[94boosted]

With mileage that high I'd personally be worried about the condition of the other stuff; syncros, diff's, rack & pinion, bearings, ball joints, CV's, t-case etc. etc. even with a new engine swapped in you could be having other mechanical problems more frequently than you'd like :dunno:

[blitz]

I love my B7 S4, but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

You'd be looking at US$16k for an engine from Audi + labour, or US$4k for a high mileage used engine + $4k in timing components + labour.

In both options you posted, resale will be about $600 in 2020.

[BavarianBeast]

Buy it, put a 2.7 twin turbo V6 into it and you have an amazing car.

It can be done, has been done and is absolutely sick.

The 4.2L in the B6/B7 sucks.

2.7T engines can be had for less than $1500. If I didn't have two projects on the go already I would be all over this.

[fourrings]

I work at Audi, those V8's fail due to cylinder gulling & piston issues.

We've replaced many 4.2 V8 engines in B6/B7's, from my experience more than just the long block will be needed, the whole emissions system usually requires replacement, no real way around it. (Unless you run a catch can & PCV delete with an aftermarket tune)

Never heard of issues with the timing chains unless someone has been in there beforehand.

Used engines from totaled cars are a 50/50 gamble, if they come with some sort of guarantee that would be ideal.

Just the replacement hardware to do such a swap with a used or new engine is about $650-$700 as most of the hardware are stretch bolts. Never re-use engine hardware unless you're into surprises.

[R-Audi]

The issue with the timing chain is that its an $8-10k repair around 160,000km.

Id look for a 1.8T if you really want a wagon....

(Im a past B7 S4 wagon owner)

[J.M.]

So basically everyone is saying DON'T buy this car

[Boosted_TL]

I've been battling my inner self about this wagon too. I agree with a few others the chassis km is a bigger deal than the already big deal with the engine swap required. It will be worth nothing in 3-5 years.

I've also owned a B6 S4 Avant, 2.7T and a Volvo V70R

Go with the R! As beautiful as the S4 Avant is, it truly is not worth the possibilities

There is an R in Drayton Valley for asking 9k, needs some work. Negotiate it down to $7,500 - $8,000 and you have an excellent year round wagon. Some mild mods and software gets you 360hp/360tq. I love the inline 5.

[theedge111]

Originally posted by fourrings
I work at Audi, those V8's fail due to cylinder gulling & piston issues.

We've replaced many 4.2 V8 engines in B6/B7's, from my experience more than just the long block will be needed, the whole emissions system usually requires replacement, no real way around it. (Unless you run a catch can & PCV delete with an aftermarket tune)

Never heard of issues with the timing chains unless someone has been in there beforehand.

Used engines from totaled cars are a 50/50 gamble, if they come with some sort of guarantee that would be ideal.

Just the replacement hardware to do such a swap with a used or new engine is about $650-$700 as most of the hardware are stretch bolts. Never re-use engine hardware unless you're into surprises.

You work at Audi but have not heard of the timing chain failures?

It's not the chain itself it's the guides that fail. I'm shocked you dont know about this, I personaly know three people that have junked engines due to the guides/ chain failure here in Alberta.

[fourrings]

Originally posted by theedge111


You work at Audi but have not heard of the timing chain failures?

It's not the chain itself it's the guides that fail. I'm shocked you dont know about this, I personaly know three people that have junked engines due to the guides/ chain failure here in Alberta.

I've never experienced such a failure & I've been working with the brand for almost 10 years.

If there is oil pressure issues that could eventually lead to chain guide failures, but generally speaking, the chain guides are the least of the worries with that 4.2 V8. Recently we've had a few engines fail due to spark plugs falling apart in the cylinders, write offs.

The project maybe worth it if you have a desire for a V8 wagon & are down for a weight reduction in your wallet.

You can buy new engines from JH Motorsports, give Dan a call & see what he do for you, I know he bought a bunch of Audi overstock from the dealer network

[theedge111]

Originally posted by fourrings


I've never experienced such a failure & I've been working with the brand for almost 10 years.

If there is oil pressure issues that could eventually lead to chain guide failures, but generally speaking, the chain guides are the least of the worries with that 4.2 V8. Recently we've had a few engines fail due to spark plugs falling apart in the cylinders, write offs.

The project maybe worth it if you have a desire for a V8 wagon & are down for a weight reduction in your wallet.

You can buy new engines from JH Motorsports, give Dan a call & see what he do for you, I know he bought a bunch of Audi overstock from the dealer network

It blows my mind that you guys have never heard of guide failures with the b6/b7 s4s...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/414598-B6-B7-S4-Timing-Chain-FAQ-Information-Discussion-Thread?highlight=Guide+failure

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/246077-S4-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-100-000?highlight=Guide+failure

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/582164-New-timing-components-installed-external-engine-overhaul-car-almost-finished!?highlight=Guide+failure

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/580235-Updated-repair-process-pics-Timing-guide-failure?highlight=Guide+failure

[BBursey]

I'm just rolling into 100,000 km on my B6 S4 Avant; I wouldn't suggest buying one unless you're a sucker for a V8 6-speed station wagon (which I am), but the fact that the original post contains a 245,000 km example gives me hope that my car might not die in the next few years!

Cheers,
Bryan

[Wrinkly]

OP - perhaps you'd be interested in a 2008 S4 Sedan (one of the last 4.2 V8's made) 6 speed manual with less than 60,000km on it and one owner? I might consider selling...

[zipdoa]

This wagon is begging for a 2.7T swap, but isn't worth more than $5k. There's a reason it's sat unsold for months.

2.7T swap (and the appropriate k04/frankenturbo/tial mods) will put you back at least $8k to do it properly. You'll have a hell of a car, but it won't be that cost effective.

edit:

Consider that 6mt 2.7t allroads can be had for $6k....

[CanmoreOrLess]

Thanks guys for the discussion, I'm not 100% certain I have the energy to deal with the aggravation this vehicle will require. The Volvo V70R suggestion has me considering a Swedish path to my inner wagon bliss.

[relyt92]

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess
Thanks guys for the discussion, I'm not 100% certain I have the energy to deal with the aggravation this vehicle will require. The Volvo V70R suggestion has me considering a Swedish path to my inner wagon bliss. The V70R and S60R are some pretty awesome sleepers.

[DeleriousZ]

I'd love to see this thing get a 2.7, only with a single turbo conversion. Would be totally badass I think.

[D. Dub]

"Here’s Why The V8 Audi S4 Is An Awful Used Car"


-http://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-v8-audi-s4-is-an-awful-used-car-1676466510

[BavarianBeast]

Originally posted by DeleriousZ
I'd love to see this thing get a 2.7, only with a single turbo conversion. Would be totally badass I think.

If I didn't just pick up a B5 S4 I would be all over this.

Build the 2.7T with K04s & RS4 parts and you have a fucking amazing sleeper.

[bspot]

You'll see S4s go on Autotrader here and there that have had the timing work done. They sell for barely more than those without the timing job. I still consider snagging one of those.

I dumped my S4 when I got scared. I loved that car. Miss it every day.

[Canucks3322]

Wow how's the current S4?

[bjstare]

I looked into them, and most of the common problems are related to the E-Diff and the DSG. I found enough, that it steered me away from buying one off warranty. I couldn't find any info on engine problems with the supercharged V6, as of yet anyways.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by relyt92
The V70R and S60R are some pretty awesome sleepers.

The V70R has been on my hitlist for quite some time. The only thing keeping me away are reports of somewhat substandard build quality, and the drivetrain being unable to cope with higher amounts of torque.

[Rocket1k78]

Originally posted by D. Dub
"Here’s Why The V8 Audi S4 Is An Awful Used Car"


-http://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-v8-audi-s4-is-an-awful-used-car-1676466510

:eek: Ive always loved these too but never knew they were this iffy.

[JPB]

Must have dodged a bullet, I sold my 6sp B7 S4 wagon last year at 138k + km and never had a problem with it. One bad coilpack was about the extent of engine problems.

[HiTempguy1]

The V70R (I believe) also has an issue where the awd system leaks out the very limited amount of fluid it holds, destroying it in the process. $$$ to fix, and unless you are aware/keep on top of it, is very easy for it to bite you in the ass.

[madramzi24]

I just got a b6 s4 from edmonton. Drove it from edmonton to calgary. Once I got to red deer it needed oil, so I put in 1lt. As soon as I got to airdrie, it needed oil again. Put some oil in it. As soon as I got to my exit the engine started to flutter. Took it to audi the next day. They told me the Cylinder walls are scorched. They quoted me 27500 for a new engine installed. I've called around to other audi specialist, and no one can find an engine. If I were you i'd 100% stay away from the 4.2.

[Rat Fink]

.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
Wow, from all your stories it seems like these cars are some of the biggest piles of shit on the road that will do nothing except bleed your wallet. Why do people love these cars so much? Is it some kind of status thing?

Great platform, great engine (until it fails). There's a reason why pretty much every B6/B7 S4 is for sale on Kijiji. They make a good candidate for a 2.7T swap if you get one on the cheap.

http://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-v8-audi-s4-is-an-awful-used-car-1676466510

[clem24]

Originally posted by madramzi24
I just got a b6 s4 from edmonton. Drove it from edmonton to calgary. Once I got to red deer it needed oil, so I put in 1lt. As soon as I got to airdrie, it needed oil again. Put some oil in it. As soon as I got to my exit the engine started to flutter. Took it to audi the next day. They told me the Cylinder walls are scorched. They quoted me 27500 for a new engine installed. I've called around to other audi specialist, and no one can find an engine. If I were you i'd 100% stay away from the 4.2.

$27.5k?!? You kidding me? With that cash you can buy a used B8 S4! Insanity.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Rat Fink
Wow, from all your stories it seems like these cars are some of the biggest piles of shit on the road that will do nothing except bleed your wallet. Why do people love these cars so much? Is it some kind of status thing?

a) it would be a project car that you keep for a decade or so, because you like the looks/feel/ etc. - not to flip or trade. It would be a car you would end up knowing so intimately (every nut and bolt) that you can almost tell whats going to break. I could see myself owning a car like this if I didnt have other projects.

b) status (most people)

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by clem24


$27.5k?!? You kidding me? With that cash you can buy a used B8 S4! Insanity.

Haha I was thinking the same thing, that is absolutely nuts! It's probably so expensive because it's aluminium (and lots of that is likely labor). For $30K you can buy a B8 with the V6T.

And to the OP, I wouldn't touch a used car that needed a new engine in a million years. You're just asking for headaches and unexpected costs. If you can do the work yourself, and it's a hobby to you, the 2.7T swap is a better option but I still think it's a slippery slope.

[blitz]

I love mine, but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone unless you source a spare low mileage engine first (that's been compression tested and borescoped) and just keep it in your garage as a backup.

Between scored cylinder walls, valve seals and timing components the engines are damn near disposable.

Timing Chain: $6k
Valve Seals: $5k
Scored cylinders: $6k for a used engine + install, $25k from Audi or US$28k from JHM (without the supercharger).

I have to keep mine forever after what I've put into it.