Vaping and rethinking smoking.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Picked up a disposable chocoloate vape the other day to give it a shot.

My child found it on the kitchen table, asked what it was.

I told them it was a rectal thermometer.

It was a reflexive lie... I didn't want them to see me doing something like smoking or think that it was ok to smoke.

Then it occurred to me in a flash: Today's kids are going to pick up a strawberry vape before the pick up a pack of players, and my concerns are probably unfounded.

I realize the landscape of "smoking" has just been turned upside down in the last two years.

Thoughts?

[Tik-Tok]

Now they're going to think it's ok to suck on rectal thermometers...

[firebane]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Now they're going to think it's ok to suck on rectal thermometers...

*insert many gay jokes here* :D

[01RedDX]

.

[GQBalla]

Kids will pick up cigarettes as well.

[BavarianBeast]

Just don't let them catch you with it in your mouth now.. Haha.

[Feruk]

What if your kid sticks it in his butt and doesn't tell you??

[Xtrema]

Talking about blowing smoke up your ass....... :rofl:

[speedog]

Originally posted by Feruk
What if your kid sticks it in his butt and doesn't tell you??
Man, I am so glad I didn't have a mouthful of coffee when I read that.

Back on topic though, it would've probably been better to tell the truth - they'll most likely try the shit you're telling fibs about and it's better to arm them as best as possible with all the pro's and con's whether it's smoking, vaping, drinking, drugs and the list goes on. It's been our family's experience that the parents that hide things have ended up with kids that experiment in often unsafe ways or amounts - that's not to say that that's the case every time but an informed kid can often make a better choice than one that has no good guidance.

[01RedDX]

.

[firebane]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
^ This, when you create an enigma out of something you are only enticing your kid to try it. That's why education on both sexuality and substances needs to start in childhood.

I try not to vape around my kid but once in a while I'll be in the den and she will sneak up behind me. There's really no smell associated with it and I just explain "this helped daddy quit smoking, but it's not something you need to do if you're not addicted to cigarettes."

My dad used to smoke in the car and I still remember how nauseous it made me when I was a kid. Never thought I would end up smoking for 18 years. Now I on't want it within a mile of my kid.

But you see what I put in bold.. There is a smell.. and she will learn to associate with something your doing.

Don't try and fool your kids.

[Go4Long]

The only people that don't seem to smell it is people that smoked.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Now they're going to think it's ok to suck on rectal thermometers...

How else do you get the flavor?



:D

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by speedog

Back on topic though, it would've probably been better to tell the truth - they'll most likely try the shit you're telling fibs about and it's better to arm them as best as possible with all the pro's and con's whether it's smoking, vaping, drinking, drugs and the list goes on. It's been our family's experience that the parents that hide things have ended up with kids that experiment in often unsafe ways or amounts - that's not to say that that's the case every time but an informed kid can often make a better choice than one that has no good guidance.

You're 100% right, and usually I'm honest with my kids, but had an odd moment of panic where I didn't want my kid to think I was smoking.

I talked to them today, apologized for lying, and explained why - That I was afraid if they saw me smoking a pretent cigarette, that they'd want to try real ones.

I showed them the ecig, and explained that it was kind of like Candy... that a little was ok, but that it was something better done in moderation.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


I showed them the ecig, and explained that it was kind of like Candy... that a little was ok, but that it was something better done in moderation.

So you go from something that we know is 100% bad for us to something that is like candy and ok in moderation? A product that nobody knows the effects it has on our health?

You sure are not setting any good examples here....

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by 01RedDX

My dad used to smoke in the car and I still remember how nauseous it made me when I was a kid. Never thought I would end up smoking for 18 years. Now I don't want it within a mile of my kid.

Similar story here - We follow the examples set by our parents.

Which is why my impulsive lie to my child.


Mind you, we're in a different age now, and I think the e-cigs are a lot more appealing than tobacco...

I'm quickly cluing in that the e-cigs are serious nails in the coffin of big tobacco, and the possibility of my children growing up to smoke is negligible.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


Similar story here - We follow the examples set by our parents.

Which is why my impulsive lie to my child.


Mind you, we're in a different age now, and I think the e-cigs are a lot more appealing than tobacco...

I'm quickly cluing in that the e-cigs are serious nails in the coffin of big tobacco, and the possibility of my children growing up to smoke is negligible.

Cigarettes will never go away just as gasoline never will go away.

As society changes you'll find there will be a larger push towards electric powered vehicles and alternative smoking habits.. but until all the old people die and a few more generations die.. it won't change.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by firebane


So you go from something that we know is 100% bad for us to something that is like candy and ok in moderation? A product that nobody knows the effects it has on our health?


Unknown is relative.

I'm sure we'll learn more about the long term effects of these as time goes on, but I doubt if there are any serious surprises in store.

Candy is a perfect metaphor, at least as far as my children are concerned. They well understand that Candy is pleasurable in moderation, and harmful in excess.


It's inconceivable to me that moderate use could present any health risks.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


Candy is a perfect metaphor, at least as far as my children are concerned. They well understand that Candy is pleasurable in moderation, and harmful in excess.


So now your telling your kids that its ok in moderation to do something like vaping? Well guess you can't give them shit if you see them doing it in the near future huh.

Because you know its like candy and its ok in moderation.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by firebane


Cigarettes will never go away just as gasoline never will go away.



You're comparing apples to snowblowers.

Cigarettes have just been dethroned by an alternative that is self-evidently superior in many ways.

No such alternative currently exists for gasoline.

[firebane]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


You're comparing apples to snowblowers.

Cigarettes have just been dethroned by an alternative that is self-evidently superior in many ways.

No such alternative currently exists for gasoline.

self evidently meaning NOBODY has any idea the consequences it has on the human body.

And the alternative to gasoline is electric vehicles or alternatives such as bio-diesel.

[rob the knob]

http://ejuiceconnoisseur.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/vape-geek.jpg

[DENZILDON]

I think this should be moved to the vaping thread in the health section as a lot more vapers can chime in.

If it was me, I would tell my kid it's to help me to stop smoking plain and simple. No need to add glimmer to the explanation.

[rob the knob]

if vaping is safe with no long term effects, and like candy, then why not let your kids use it. serious. why not. you can give kids bubble gum flavour. better than candy because no sugar or artificial sweetener. no need for nicotine, give them plain bubble gum no nicotine flavour.

[DENZILDON]

Because it's still considered a vice and some ejuice have nicotine. That's why eshops sell only to adults.

[rob the knob]

Originally posted by DENZILDON
Because it's still considered a vice and some ejuice have nicotine. That's why eshops sell only to adults.

why is it a vice? flavoured air?

there is nicotine gum and kids can still chew gum.

[woodywoodford]

I never understood vaping....half the fun of smoking is that smooooth draw and the cherry lighting up, paper burning back a bit...

Fuck, brb

[ddduke]

Originally posted by rob the knob
if vaping is safe with no long term effects, and like candy, then why not let your kids use it. serious. why not. you can give kids bubble gum flavour. better than candy because no sugar or artificial sweetener. no need for nicotine, give them plain bubble gum no nicotine flavour.


Originally posted by rob the knob


why is it a vice? flavoured air?

there is nicotine gum and kids can still chew gum.

Did Rob start taking ESL classes? Those are probably the first posts of his that I could read and make sense of the first time.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[codetrap]

Originally posted by rob the knob
if vaping is safe with no long term effects, and like candy, then why not let your kids use it. serious. why not. you can give kids bubble gum flavour. better than candy because no sugar or artificial sweetener. no need for nicotine, give them plain bubble gum no nicotine flavour. There's no evidence that there's no long term effects. Otherwise I'm going to assume that the rest of your post is sarcasm.

I'm personally leaning towards a "safe" comparison of cigarettes being guns, and vapers being tasers. At least until I see some solid research into the topic.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by rob the knob
if vaping is safe with no long term effects, and like candy,

You overestimate the safety of Candy. Candy is not safe, and I've got the dental bills to prove it.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by woodywoodford
I never understood vaping....half the fun of smoking is that smooooth draw and the cherry lighting up, paper burning back a bit...

Well that's the thing. It isn't a full replacement and in order for it to work as a quitting device the user has to use willpower to compensate for the lack of those aspects.

For me, the biggest difference is in the way smoking makes my throat and lungs feel "full", which vaping cannot replicate. Still using mine though, and it's still working as a reduction tool. Just not a quitting tool quite yet.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

Intentionally inhaling anything that isn't air into you lungs is going to have an impact long term.


This is very reasonably stated.

It appears that the discourse is otherwise polar, with some denying any risk at all, and others overstating it.

A lot of FUD seems to be made over "Long term effects are unknown".

But what don't we know, and what can we make informed guesses about?

We know that the basic ingredients (Carriers) of e-juice are non-toxic, food safe, well understood, with long track records of safe use.


We don't know what happens when you atomize and inhale the stuff 99 times a day.

While there appears to be no toxicological risk, eventually we'll see physical impacts from inhaling this stuff into the lungs. It's gonna have some effect, and it won't be good.

As adoption and time increase, we're going to see instances of the following problems, which some will hold up as "proof" of lack of safety:

- Cases of faulty or badly made atomizers that result in shards or fibres of the device itself being inhaled

- Accidental poisonings in cases where kids get access to improperly stored e-juices containing nicotine.

- Deliberate poisonings from those who discover that E-juice can be refined into a deadly and easily deployed poison.

- QA issues in which e-juices made of substandard or contaminated ingredients make it on the market. (Think Melamine in Catfood, and similar examples).

- Cases of equipment failure from cheap batteries, resulting in explosion or fire.

- Those vaping with nicotene e-juices are not immune from the risks associated with nictotene itself (Quel surpris!)

- Heavy, long term vapers will experience reduced lung function. As I think about it, Lung cancer may not be impossible.

This is not to overstate theses risks - But to inventory and acknowledge them, and put to bed the fear inflated by those who would deliberately misinterpret unknowns by making worst-case-assumptions.


But all told, I think the risks are incredible small for moderate users, and particularly in contrast to cancer sticks, chewing tobacco, or Shisha.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
This is very reasonably stated.

It appears that the discourse is otherwise polar, with some denying any risk at all, and others overstating it.

A lot of FUD seems to be made over "Long term effects are unknown".

But what don't we know, and what can we make informed guesses about?

We know that the basic ingredients (Carriers) of e-juice are non-toxic, food safe, well understood, with long track records of safe use.

We don't know what happens when you atomize and inhale the stuff 99 times a day.

While there appears to be no toxicological risk, eventually we'll see physical impacts from inhaling this stuff into the lungs. It's gonna have some effect, and it won't be good.
But all told, I think the risks are incredible small for moderate users, and particularly in contrast to cancer sticks, chewing tobacco, or Shisha. Interesting post.... I'd like to address your Carriers statement. It's true they're non-toxic, food safe and well understood with long track records of safe use... IN FOOD. There's almost NO data on their use in vapor and being breathed in. At least none that I'm aware of. Which is addressed by your second point. I also am naturally skeptical about what the proponents tell us, as history has proven time and time again with the entire smoking lobby, or the thalidomide proponents, or any proponent that has a financial stake it has told us. Then add in the basic truth of "It's the dose that makes the poison." I like apples, but I'm not going to eat a bag full of baked apple seeds.....

"Go ahead, use our product, it's safe." - said every snake oil salesman everywhere.

[JustinMCS]

I always think it's funny when parents tell their kids that smoking is bad for you but they then proceed to do it themselves.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by JustinMCS
I always think it's funny when parents tell their kids that smoking is bad for you but they then proceed to do it themselves.

Such is not uncommon and distinctly human.

Petty minds will revel in the "Gotcha".

Broader minds will understand.