The badge on your car

[Phihalo]

Was reading some car reviews and came across the Genesis sedan. It's great looking and has all the bells and whistles that you'd want pretty much. Price is screaming a bargain but would any of you consider this if you have 45k to buy a sedan? Every review that I've read says the interior, the exterior, the finishes are top -notch, but because it's a Hyundai, many would exclude this in the cross shopping list.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-first-drive-review

http://newscarreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2015-Hyundai-Genesis-Sedan.jpg

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2015-hyundai-genesis-korean-spec_100448191_l.jpg

So comes the question, how much is the badge worth to you?

Discuss.

[Canmorite]

When buying a luxury car, it's worth quite a bit to me. Otherwise not really. A luxury Hyundai just doesn't sound right and I don't think they're selling a lot of these cars, are they? :dunno:

[killramos]

I might be a bad example but the badge is worth 99% of the car to me :poosie:

jk, i just don't think the genesis is nice enough to justify its price point compared to its competition. 45k makes it a very expensive car.

[E46..sTyLez]

It's a good point. I think the vast majority would opt for something that has the right badge (and reputation), and get less for the money.

Imagine what the Hyundai Equus consumers are comparing against...know anyone that would drop 6 figures on a Hyundai? haha

[killramos]

Originally posted by Canmorite
When buying a luxury car, it's worth quite a bit to me. Otherwise not really. A luxury Hyundai just doesn't sound right and I don't think they're selling a lot of these cars, are they? :dunno:

Form what i heard they sold basically 0 Equus's

[Kloubek]

That looks really nice.

I've considered the Genesis sedan before. Used, of course - as I cannot justify buying brand new. With that said, I really wasn't completely won over by the design - even if it was said to be close to on par with the "big boys".

To me, this picture shows they just might be on par; at least in the design department. It's a nice looking car in and out.

I highly doubt it has the smoothness of an MB though. Or the driving experience of a BMW. So I think those reasons may be reason enough for one to choose a more expensive, marquee brand. Or if value is your thing, then it could be said that maintenance on something like this would be far less than the German brands.

And of course it's a matter of ego and outdoing your peers - to which the Genesis will not suffice for some. Which, I guess is the point of your post. Personally, looking like I'm in a position to "buy the best" is not high on the priority list - so yes, if I was in the market to buy a luxury sedan I would seriously consider a Genesis.... looking at these pictures. With that said, it must also meet all the other requirements that one would expect from a luxury car. Power, comfort, feel, etc.

[flipstah]

I like what I see. I wouldn't spend my money on one.

People who buy luxury cars want that badge.

[E46..sTyLez]

To form a true opinion I would need to experience driving/sitting in one. When I bought my Sti it had all the "bells and whistles" that my E46 330ci had (on paper anyway)...but about a month into owning the subie I came to the realization that their quality of interior/fit & finish was horrible and could never come close to that of an MB/Audi/BMW.

Not saying that's the case with these high end Hyundai's, but I don't know about their actual quality outside of written articles.

[Phihalo]

Originally posted by Kloubek
That looks really nice.

I've considered the Genesis sedan before. Used, of course - as I cannot justify buying brand new. With that said, I really wasn't completely won over by the design - even if it was said to be close to on par with the "big boys".

To me, this picture shows they just might be on par; at least in the design department. It's a nice looking car in and out.

I highly doubt it has the smoothness of an MB though. Or the driving experience of a BMW. So I think those reasons may be reason enough for one to choose a more expensive, marquee brand. Or if value is your thing, then it could be said that maintenance on something like this would be far less than the German brands.

And of course it's a matter of ego and outdoing your peers - to which the Genesis will not suffice for some. Which, I guess is the point of your post. Personally, looking like I'm in a position to "buy the best" is not high on the priority list - so yes, if I was in the market to buy a luxury sedan I would seriously consider a Genesis.... looking at these pictures. With that said, it must also meet all the other requirements that one would expect from a luxury car. Power, comfort, feel, etc.

The last gen was just okay to me because it screems Merc cross Lexus, but this remodel is pretty good looking. I can see some german influence but it beats the GS and the bimmer looks. Hyundai is pretty smart comes this round because it's not going for the best handling, best HP sport sedan route, it's going for the true comfort. Reviews say that it is one of the best rides under 100k because it's dead quiet and a smooth ride even over some harsh potholes. I want to go test drive this haha Beyond group test drive anyone?

Used is probably what I'm going for as well because they don't hold their value worth shit :rofl:

[Mitsu3000gt]

I literally could not possibly care less about what brand my car has on it (or any product for that matter), however certain things tend to come with certain car brands which are important to me, such as:

- Resale
- Build quality inside & out (huge)
- Reliability
- Fun to drive (not my current car lol)
- etc. etc. etc.

If Kia bought Ferrari tomorrow and they still made the exact same cars, it would make zero difference to me if I was in the market as long as the reasons I liked the car in the first place stayed the same.

I am probably generalizing a bit, but the people who care the most about the brand that other people can see and nothing else are often the ones driving 320i's, S320's, C230's, etc.

I don't think I'm a target customer for the Genesis but I appreciate the value it offers and wouldn't feel embarrassed to say I drove a Hyundai if that's what checked all the boxes for me.

[SkiBum5.0]

The sum of the Genesis' parts do not equal other premium cars.

It may have nice leather, it may have nice design lines and paint, it's interior may appear to be like the premium brands. However, the whole package is not tied together to beat out the BMW, Merc and Audi products.

It's 80% as good but when you add it all up, that 20% leftover is why I'd skip it

[ercchry]

Originally posted by killramos


Form what i heard they sold basically 0 Equus's

there is a 2011 with 60k kms on kijiji for $27k.... for $27k that would be a great daily

[Sugarphreak]

...

[killramos]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Didn't VW try this with the Phantom?

I've heard it was an amazing car that easily compared with others in the high end luxury market, but had terrible sales and even worse resale values.

You can't cheat your way into the luxury car market like you can in the run of the mill DD markets. In order to even get your foot in the door you have to have a strong performance division to showcase your tech. Hyundai does't have it, and this car will be a flop just like VW's.

If you mean the Phaeton i think it was the W12 that really sunk it :rofl:

[E46..sTyLez]

Originally posted by Phihalo


The last gen was just okay to me because it screems Merc cross Lexus, but this remodel is pretty good looking. I can see some german influence but it beats the GS and the bimmer looks. Hyundai is pretty smart comes this round because it's not going for the best handling, best HP sport sedan route, it's going for the true comfort. Reviews say that it is one of the best rides under 100k because it's dead quiet and a smooth ride even over some harsh potholes. I want to go test drive this haha Beyond group test drive anyone?

Used is probably what I'm going for as well because they don't hold their value worth shit :rofl:

Used, shave badges, no one knows what you drive = win.



Originally posted by ercchry


there is a 2011 with 60k kms on kijiji for $27k.... for $27k that would be a great daily

:werd:

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by killramos


If you mean the Phaeton i think it was the W12 that really sunk it :rofl:

Funny enough, I would love to own a W12 Phaeton for some absurd reason. I guess im a glutton for punishment :rofl:

[flipstah]

Originally posted by killramos


If you mean the Phaeton i think it was the W12 that really sunk it :rofl:

It wasn't the W12 (although parts for that is painful) that killed it. It's the fact that it was competing against its' own siblings, the Audi A8.

Why buy a Phaeton when you can have the Audi badge for essentially, the same car.

Badges matter.

[Masked Bandit]

Rightly or wrongly, the badge matters. This car could be every bit as good or even better than established luxury brands but Hyundai still carries a stigma of being a budget brand. That really comes into play on resale. I know when the day comes to get rid of our Santa Fe I'm not going to get the same money as a Highlander or Pilot, however I also paid less for the same or better options and as far as I'm concerned the family car is nothing more than an appliance.

[max_boost]

Yup and then probably say something lame like I wanted to support a Korean brand because my gf is Korean. :rofl:

In reality it's BMW Budget Baller for life. Base model 3 series FTW. :bigpimp:

[CanmoreOrLess]

Last week, on the same day and within an hour, I saw both a newer Acura RL and a Genesis on the way to Bragg Creek. Unicorns I shouted (rarer than a Lambo), the wife's reply was "You need more guy friends". Brain silently replies "No, I need a passenger ejection seat".

I'd look at buying a 2015 Genesis once it has depreciated nearer to 50%, plenty of luxury, reliability and design for 25K. Note it has AWD, win/win.

[BensonTT]

These Hyundai luxury sedan looks alot nicer then a BMW 5 series! No Troll...

[dannie]

Badge absolutely matters. More specifically though, the badge that fits your budget. If I have 30k and I can spend it on a 2014 Hyundai or a 2012 BMW, I will take the BMW. Even though you may not have the money for a Bentley, I will always take the better badge within the price point available.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Ive spent lots of time driving this car, it's a really nice engine and the tech is nice but there is something off about it. 45K is the starting price but most of the ones I see sold are in the 55 - 65K range.

When you drive one it feels like wearing a fake watch. It looks good, it will fool the average person but it doesn't feel right or make you feel good owning one.

[civic_stylez]

I am a Genesis sedan owner and as someone who has worked for MANY luxury/exotic brands I was very impressed when I drove the Genesis for the first time. Hyundai has ALOT to prove and are offering luxury and reliability at a reduced price. When i worked for Bentley, our loaner cars were BMW 535's (E60) and I have never been so unimpressed for what 70k bought you. Crappy user nav/interface, tiny buttons and just not what a 70k car should offer. I would not pay that just to rock a BMW badge. Great power but to me thats all it offered.

My Genesis gives me the S class feel without the maintenance and cost. I may be on my own with my opinion but after 12 years in the car industry, I can honestly say there are very few cars that perk my interest and for what I paid for what I got for my Genesis, Im beyond happy. So to answer the OP's question, no it doesnt matter to me. BMW, Mercedes and Audi have become so mainstream that having other brands get into the mix and offer great cars is great for the industry.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess

I'd look at buying a 2015 Genesis once it has depreciated nearer to 50%, plenty of luxury, reliability and design for 25K. Note it has AWD, win/win.

Exactly this, although I'm planning on buying a 2011 5.0L when the price gets under $20k (probably in about 2 years, as a 2009 4.6L is there right now), and if I like it, I'll get the AWD 5.0L a couple of years after that.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Ive spent lots of time driving this car, it's a really nice engine and the tech is nice but there is something off about it.

That's basically all Korean cars. Everything on paper looks right. Then you start driving it and it seems something is lacking compared to Japanese.

[DeleriousZ]

Semi-related, I saw a Phaeton in the superstore parking lot a few weeks ago. Stood out from the 'average' sedans like nobody's business.... mainly because it was 3ft longer and stuck out in the way of driving thru the parking lot. lol

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by killramos
I might be a bad example but the badge is worth 99% of the car to me :poosie:

jk, i just don't think the genesis is nice enough to justify its price point compared to its competition. 45k makes it a very expensive car.

AT 45K, i fail to see what you can get against its "compeitions". Its a hell of a car for 45k (more like 55 with options, but still)... other the badge of course.


dont get me wrong, I have 2 bmws, but the Genesis is a great deal.

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by flipstah


It wasn't the W12 (although parts for that is painful) that killed it. It's the fact that it was competing against its' own siblings, the Audi A8.

Why buy a Phaeton when you can have the Audi badge for essentially, the same car.

Badges matter.

This, except the Audi had ASF technology which made it 1000lbs+ lighter and basically did everything better as a drivers car.

[ddduke]

Originally posted by Canmorite
When buying a luxury car, it's worth quite a bit to me. Otherwise not really. A luxury Hyundai just doesn't sound right and I don't think they're selling a lot of these cars, are they? :dunno:

I don't think they sell that many in Calgary but when I go the Scottsdale I'm amazed by how many I see. The things are absolutely everywhere.

I wouldn't pay that kind of money for a Hyundai though and it really isn't for any other reason then the badge. If I'm paying luxury car prices then I want a luxury brand.

[FixedGear]

It wouldn't bother me at all, but then again I think Hyundai is awesome haha

[InRich]

Ok first off. Its not the same. Go sit in an M5 and then sit in this. Its a completely different world. I did it the other day, and the difference was night and day. wasnt even close. I would never consider this car. ever

[egmilano]

my baller uncle traded in his bmw x5 for one ..... wtf :banghead:

[revelations]

Badge matters to the same people/demographic who tend to wear famously hyped brand-name clothes, watches, bags.

For others, the look, reliability, feasibility, etc. matter more than a name.

[revelations]

Originally posted by InRich
Ok first off. Its not the same. Go sit in an M5 and then sit in this. Its a completely different world. I did it the other day, and the difference was night and day. wasnt even close. I would never consider this car. ever

M5 is a drivers car, worth 2x the price of this Hyundai, which is meant for relaxed cruising.

Genesis starts at 44k CAD, M5 starts at 102k CAD.

Apples and oranges.

[SKR]

If it's a legit car, it doesn't matter to me if it's competitor has a "better" name. Knowing me, and how I don't like to do what everyone else does, I'd go out of my way to not be in the "better" car. I watched a video comparing a Jaguar something to a BMW something, and they gave maybe a slight advantage to the BMW. I think probably most people would buy the BMW, and just for that fact alone I'd buy the Jaguar. That its performance and quality and whatever else was comparable to the BMW would just be a bonus.

[theken]

Originally posted by dannie
Badge absolutely matters. More specifically though, the badge that fits your budget. If I have 30k and I can spend it on a 2014 Hyundai or a 2012 BMW, I will take the BMW. Even though you may not have the money for a Bentley, I will always take the better badge within the price point available. then you have the issue of maintenance.....my c63 was disgusting. I'm positive the Hyundai won't be even a quarter the price for oil changes, brakes and general maintenance non warranty items. I would rather have the newer car with less km long term saving money. Don't get me wrong if I had the money I would spend way more for the badge of it were a driver car, cruising? meh Who cares

[tehwegz]

Honestly don't care, but then again I don't have the money to care.

I've driven pretty much everything under $150k offered in the last two years, and on the market right now except some Honda/Acura, Mazda, and Subaru.

The cars that excite me the most are usually the ones with the humble badges on them, closest to what I can afford obviously, and some others just because they're badass e.g. the red and green Hellcat Challengers that came in today and gave my ear-balls some ear-gasms.

:drool:

So...loud. Probably gets loudest car under 100k award right now. ZL1 Camaro is pretty damn loud too, but I love it more for its idle "wawb-wawb-wawb-wawb-wawb" and so on. '14 Roush Stangs are the same. :drool:

[94boosted]

Is this thing really even a good price? The second you throw in the decent engine (5.0 V8) the price jumps from 43K to 63K :eek: at that point a E550, 550i or Cadillac CTS V-Sport are 12-13K more which isn't a big stretch for a proper luxury car IMO.

[mazdavirgin]

:dunno: Hyundai is plagued with steering wheel issues that are bad enough to keep me well well away. The genesis is also affected by the issue...

[dj_rice]

Its just like the Kia K900. V6 version $62K, V8 Elite version $71K

Why would anyone buy a Kia for that pricing when you can get any luxury brand for that pricing...:eek: :eek: :nut: :nut: :dunno: :dunno:

[Mibz]

Originally posted by dj_rice
Its just like the Kia K900. V6 version $62K, V8 Elite version $71K

Why would anyone buy a Kia for that pricing when you can get any luxury brand for that pricing...:eek: :eek: :nut: :nut: :dunno: :dunno: Apples to oranges again. The K900 competes (feature-wise) with the 7-series, A8 and S-class, which all start around $100k, don't they?

[benyl]

I don't care about badging. I care about performance.

Give me a Hyundai tuned Genesis with over 550hp and I will bite.

That being said, you will never see me in Hellcat. Fit and finish is still important.

[civic_stylez]

Originally posted by Mibz
Apples to oranges again. The K900 competes (feature-wise) with the 7-series, A8 and S-class, which all start around $100k, don't they?

Exactly. People are comparing the wrong cars. In its class I find it to be the best value for the features, ride quality, reliability etc. I have the "winged" Genesis that has no H on it anywhere and a lot of people have no idea what it is. That says a lot for the company that built the pony lol. :D

[01RedDX]

.

[flipstah]

Seoul is Hyundai country and all the big bosses are in Equus. They're actually pretty nice cars.

[benyl]

The only successful luxury spin off has been Lexus.

Even mb failed with maybach.

[01RedDX]

.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by benyl
The only successful luxury spin off has been Lexus.

Even mb failed with maybach.

I would say GM has done remarkably well at selling Chevy's with a Cadillac badge on them for a pretty healthy mark up. Same with Nissan / Infiniti. The luxury counter-parts are only marginally nicer / better equipped than their poor cousins but the price difference is glaringly evident.

[flipstah]

Spin-offs work with great marketing. Distancing physical dealerships was smart.

[01RedDX]

.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Even Chrysler was actually positioned as that company's luxury brand for a while, with Plymouth being sold as the "practical" brand.
Had a rental Towne & Country and I honestly could not tell you the difference from a decked out Caravan.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I can't imagine what the profit margins on Cadillac/Lincoln are. Especially the SUV's. Likely the highest MSRP vs build cost ratio in the entire industry - I would be very curious.

[M.alex]

Originally posted by dj_rice
Its just like the Kia K900. V6 version $62K, V8 Elite version $71K

Why would anyone buy a Kia for that pricing when you can get any luxury brand for that pricing...:eek: :eek: :nut: :nut: :dunno: :dunno:

There's a $70k Kia???????

W-teeeeeeeee-effffffffffff?

I had to google it to believe it. :rofl:

[E46..sTyLez]

Originally posted by M.alex


There's a $70k Kia???????

W-teeeeeeeee-effffffffffff?

I had to google it to believe it. :rofl:

Lebron James has one, and loves it!! haha That's his words (Instagram)

[sillysod]

I drive a boring base frontier as my daily vehicle. I don't have to park far from where I'm going, I don't worry about rock chips etc., it's kind of like a really nice winter beater. that being said i don't pick up clients in it.

If i know I will be at the petroleum club for the day or dinner with one of my customers I always take the BMW or Audi. My Audi - although in great condition - is probably worth $6,000 now, the frontier is definitely worth a lot more. Doesn't matter, customers say nice car with the Audi when I pick them up and "oh you got a shop truck today" when I bring the frontier.

Silly but badges definitely play a roll in peoples perception.

[sillysod]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Exactly, GM and Ford didn't even need to re-tool their assembly lines for their re-badged luxury cars.



http://www.imcdb.org/i551609.jpg:drool:

[revelations]

Originally posted by sillysod
http://www.imcdb.org/i551609.jpg:drool:

Thats just the absolute pinnacle of retarded design, not sure if the 70s were worse or not ..... :barf:

[blownz]

I drove the old Genesis and it was brutal. Didn't have near the refinement and feel of German cars which imo is one of the best parts of them. New one is supposedly better, although I haven't driven one...

I think the worst part of buying one wouldn't be the badge, but dealing with the dealerships. Most luxury brands (Lexus and the Germans) have dealerships that provide better service and experience compared to the mainstream brands. Hyundai dealer that I went too was just brutal. Young, cocky, stupid sales guys and a very cheap experience. I think that would be the worst part about owning one. And based on the one a guy here at work owns, they spend a ton of time at the dealership.

[ToXicXxX]

Originally posted by M.alex


There's a $70k Kia???????

W-teeeeeeeee-effffffffffff?

I had to google it to believe it. :rofl:

At SEMA 2014, KIA had some weird cobbled together BMW M5 type clone, 5L V8, twin Garrett 2871R's, carbon fibre up the wazoo, quilted leather seats, and a big ugly intercooler haphazardly mushed into the front bumper.

Curious to see what the finished project is. They did "borrow" some engineers from BMW I believe.

[FixedGear]

I actually think it was really wise for Hyundai to release their luxury cars under the same brand. These cars are helping to improve the public perception of the brand that is still very much based on their earliest models (e.g. Excel). Some folks may be turned off by the luxury Hyundais because of this, but these are the cars which are helping to cement the image we will have of Hyundai 10-15 years from now.

Most people here are too young to remember, but the early Hondas were massive piece of shits. I've been fortunate to have worked on a '79 civic and it's clear why we don't see them on the roads any longer. they were cheap as hell and literally rusted away within years.

incidentally, my first car was an '88 excel :bigpimp:, drove it until it died (timing belt) in like '97. and by that point the whole car was literally falling to pieces hahah

[Tik-Tok]

:werd:

It took the last twenty years for my dad to acknowledge that. Everytime I bought a new car, it was always "Ahhh, not more of that Jap-Crap!". Finally he realized they aren't the same as the early 80's, and he's driving a Hyundai now, lol.

[wintonyk]

hyundai is in need of a rebrand of our label whore market. people used to say I will never buy an expensive toyota or honda and they do now.

hyundai suffers because they were shit vehicles when they first hit our market so that reputation hinders our perception of luxury (intro luxury) sedans.

[ToXicXxX]

Call the new marquis "Super Lucky Fancy Good Time". I'd buy 2. Also, make the emblem a transformer.

[rob the knob]

Originally posted by wintonyk
hyundai is in need of a rebrand of our label whore market. people used to say I will never buy an expensive toyota or honda and they do now.

hyundai suffers because they were shit vehicles when they first hit our market so that reputation hinders our perception of luxury (intro luxury) sedans.

civic and corolla used to be what my cousins canada could afford first after here. terrible cars. honda and tooota have come long way.

hyunda come too.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Hyundai_Stellar_%283828582804%29.jpg/800px-Hyundai_Stellar_%283828582804%29.jpg

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by wintonyk
hyundai is in need of a rebrand of our label whore market. people used to say I will never buy an expensive toyota or honda and they do now.

hyundai suffers because they were shit vehicles when they first hit our market so that reputation hinders our perception of luxury (intro luxury) sedans.

How do they suffer? The only people I see complaining are vain, label-obsessed auto enthusiasts. :D

[civic_stylez]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
:werd:

It took the last twenty years for my dad to acknowledge that. Everytime I bought a new car, it was always "Ahhh, not more of that Jap-Crap!". Finally he realized they aren't the same as the early 80's, and he's driving a Hyundai now, lol.


Same here. We were the Jack Carter Oldsmobile family in the 80's and all the way in to 2000. Dads last car was a Mazda and mom drives a Subaru. Go figure lol.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by rob the knob
civic and corolla used to be what my cousins canada could afford first after here. terrible cars. honda and tooota have come long way.

hyunda come too.
Am I the only one who had trouble understanding that?

[never]

I usually take the badges off any car I own...so who cares what people think it is!

[revelations]

Originally posted by jwslam

Am I the only one who had trouble understanding that?

Yea I dont get it, Honda and Toyota of the early 90s were bomb proof in terms of drivetrain and interior fit and finish. Rusted quick, but really only in places where salt was being dumped on the roads (Eastern provines). In the West coast you see lots of 90s imports around.