Questions on new vehicle legal advice

[Zhariak]

So, bought a new SUV. It's a complete lemon...

Been in the shop for 43 days since picking it up around November 25th. Some issues are from manufacturer, some issues are from service at the dealership fucking up the vehicle when fixing manufacturers issues.


List of issues is long, but biggest concern is the brakes. Been having issues with them since day 1. Pedal hard (not able to brake sometimes), snapping sensations in pedal, pedal has dropped when sitting at red lights, and sometimes it feels like ABS is firing when you're completely stopped.

It's almost resulted in 2 accidents with other vehicles, and I almost blew a hole through my garage (had to use both feet to stop, crushed some boxes).

Brakes failed a few weeks back, dealer worked on it. Contacted manufacturer and they are telling me the that the dealer cannot duplicate braking concerns, even though I have service work orders confirming brake issues, and pictures I took with my phone of the vehicle reporting "Service Brake Assist".

I'll be creating a whole thread on the issues, vehicle, and list. But right now just looking to beyond for advice on if anyone can recommend a lawyer who can provide advice (and possibly services) if I decide to pursue this. Never had to deal with finding a lawyer for this kind of stuff, so any advice is appreciated!

Cheers!

[Xtrema]

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/lack-of-lemon-law-catches-consumer-1.1123730

Yeah, other than going public with it, i doubt you will go very far.

[ExtraSlow]

Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan (CAMVAP).

This is the closest we have to a "lemon law" in canada as far as I know.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Xtrema
http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/lack-of-lemon-law-catches-consumer-1.1123730

Yeah, other than going public with it, i doubt you will go very far.

I'm inches away from going 100% public with my situation.


Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan (CAMVAP).

This is the closest we have to a "lemon law" in canada as far as I know.

I'm at the point where I've lost so much time to this vehicle, I'm actually looking at legal options (not arbitration).

I don't want to spend any more time dealing with this. I've lost so much time it's not even funny. Looking to pay someone to deal with this for me.

Icing on the cake was the brake issues, when I have proof (pictures of vehicle reporting brakes requiring service), and service work orders stating they were broken. The executive review team at the manufacturer said after talking to the dealer, the dealer could not duplicate or confirm any braking issues...

[Mitsu3000gt]

What is the make/model?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
What is the make/model?

I'm guessing it's the 2015 Escalade ESV Premium in his "what I drive"

My advice is take it to a different dealership, under a different owner. (edit: different dealership owned lot I mean)

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


I'm guessing it's the 2015 Escalade ESV Premium in his "what I drive"

My advice is take it to a different dealership, under a different owner. (edit: different dealership owned lot I mean)

Ah, didn't even think to look there haha, good call.

[Kloubek]

Why not go public right away? People need to hear about this stuff.

[vengie]

I'm shocked the dealership isn't doing more to help you?? since you're quite loyal to the brand, and buy a new escalade every year.

[SkiBum5.0]

have you spoken with the area manager for GM (corp not dealer)?

If not he may be able to help you get an equitable solution.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Kloubek
Why not go public right away? People need to hear about this stuff.

I know what your saying... I actually have a thread on a different forum site logging everything from day 1 to now (didn't even think it would turn in to what it has, just was posting to keep others updated since a lot of other owners are having some of the issues I am). Originally thought a couple visits would have everything fixed... Little did I know.

Now that it's turned in to a clusterfuck, I'm getting prepped to tackle this as a whole. With any kind of bad situation, even though you want it taken care of right away, there is processes, have to give various parties a chance to correct them, etc... Just been making sure I'm fair. I'm not one to cause a shit storm it if it's not needed, and I don't cry every time I don't get my way.



Originally posted by vengie
I'm shocked the dealership isn't doing more to help you?? since you're quite loyal to the brand, and buy a new escalade every year.


I have an amazing relationship with the sales department at my dealership, and that's one of the reasons why I've been giving this time to let it get corrected.

In all honesty, most of my issues are manufacturer related, only half way through my story were some problems created by service at the dealer.

Wanted to give them time to see if they would correct and rectify the issues and that time is about to pass. I'm making one more attempt this week to get the service related issue corrected.

But, after the response I got from the manufacturer, I'm just absolutely fucking pissed.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by SkiBum5.0
have you spoken with the area manager for GM (corp not dealer)?

If not he may be able to help you get an equitable solution.

I've been speaking with the Executive Review team at GM. As far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but that's the highest level of customer/corporate communication that I'm aware of.

It was the ERT team at GM Canada that mentioned the dealer cannot duplicate my braking concerns, when the dealer actually reported "Cause Broken", and worked on my brakes (I have service work orders, and pictures of my vehicle reporting "Service Brake Assist").

Even after mentioning this on the phone to the rep at ERT, 7 times in a row she mentioned "The dealer cannot duplicate any concerns with your brakes".

[Zhariak]

Sorry to keep you guys waiting for details :P

Just looking for a referral to someone who might have experience legally with this stuff.

[01RedDX]

.

[Proyecto2000]

I came in to this thread expecting to read about a brake issues on a 2014 Nissan as I went thru a similar situation with Nissan Canada and a local dealership last fall.

Nissan Canada basically told me to screw off as the service techs could not replicate my brake failure. After almost 4 months of my vehicle sitting at the dealership and talking to a lawyer I ended up trading in the truck for a new one.

I did take a hit for a few grand after only driving the truck for 400 kms in my first week of ownership but it was an easier pill to swallow than continuing to deal with the lemon and the associated BS.

I had a consult with a lawyer at Dentons and they require a retainer up front and the estimated cost of the lawyer was basically what I was losing on the trade in so its something that you may want to consider.

Like you said dealing with a bad vehicle is a huge time waster so might be worth your while to trade it in and buy something different if you aren't taking to big of a hit :dunno:

[HiTempguy1]

All contracts have a 30 day cooling off period do they not? I can't see why that wouldn't have applied here. Of course, you are probably past that threshold from the sounds of it, but for future reference...

[rob the knob]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
All contracts have a 30 day cooling off period do they not? I can't see why that wouldn't have applied here. Of course, you are probably past that threshold from the sounds of it, but for future reference...

only for guys at your door, i learn this

[Masked Bandit]

Any updates on this Zhariak? I'm pretty sure I know which shop is involved but won't post it. It sounds like a lot of the problems are with GM Canada and not completely on the shoulders of the dealership. With that said, this group of dealers has a less than stellar reputation overall.

[Zhariak]

Alrighty!!!! Got the lawyer.

Now I need something else. I need to find a well known certified mechanic shop that has the proper computers to read codes on the newer generation GM vehicles, I need to get a 3rd party inspection and safety analysis on the vehicle.

I know a certain computer or something is required to fully diagnose and read the codes (not just the standard codes a standard reader picks up).

Can anyone suggest any?

PS, here's a teaser of some of the shit I'm dealing with:

IoHFWF180cI
(Losing brakes going down decline in to underground parkade)

EDIT/ADDITION:

Screw it, here's a bunch of videos for you viewing pleasure. Some issues have been fixed, but other new ones created... Fully story to follow....

_bFQgH5iB24

UxqgKZ2QzhE

U2zEbJuzZrk

n2XjgD21MkA

x36gcK008ms

iOJ-us_ppeg

ldcalpfsuxE

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Any updates on this Zhariak? I'm pretty sure I know which shop is involved but won't post it. It sounds like a lot of the problems are with GM Canada and not completely on the shoulders of the dealership. With that said, this group of dealers has a less than stellar reputation overall.

A lot of the problems were from the manufacturer. But the dealer fucked my steering column up royally. They also left me with a hanging hood release which got stuck behind the brake and caused the hood to release. And the most recent my seat is fucked up after they tried "fixing the movement".

And with the fact NO ONE is taking my shit seriously about the brake problems I've had from day one. I'm officially pissed. GM Canada said there's nothing wrong with the brakes or steering column, as per what the dealership told them.

I'm stuck with a $99,995.00 piece of junk I don't feel safe to drive. No one is willing to help. It's legal time!

I'm pissed off about the money, I'm pissed off about my time wasted having to bring this piece of junk in to the shop. I'm pissed off at all the times I was called to pick it up when it wasn't ready.

I'm pissed off my truck virtually spent all of January and February in the shop with an exception of a couple nights and a weekend.

The dealer has an awesome sales department (and I consider myself a close friend with the sales manager), but this is just enough. I've lost too many sleepless nights wigging out about this... And while I'm sure the service department did make an effort in working on the vehicle, some of the stuff is just simply unacceptable... In particular my braking issues, and the fact I can't brake sometimes... And the fact they cleared the codes the one time it did report and error, but didn't both documenting the codes. They just replaced a part they replaced a week prior for the 2nd time...

[roopi]

Originally posted by Zhariak

The dealer has an awesome sales department (and I consider myself a close friend with the sales manager), but this is just enough.

Have you spoke to anyone in the sales department that are so awesome about the POS that they sold you and the service you are receiving from their business? If they value your business they would at least listen to your concerns and try and speak to someone in service.

Maybe they can help the service department understand that you've owned previous Cadillac's from the dealership and you're not just some guy causing problems.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by roopi


Have you spoke to anyone in the sales department that are so awesome about the POS that they sold you and the service you are receiving from their business? If they value your business they would at least listen to your concerns and try and speak to someone in service.

Maybe they can help the service department understand that you've owned previous Cadillac's from the dealership and you're not just some guy causing problems.

Trust me, I've tried. I'm a bit upset about that. It did get the ball rolling on a few issues, but not the response I would have liked to have seen.

I've spent too much time with the service managers, the service advisers, talking to my sales guy, and talking with GM Canada's executive review team.

I'm not one to lose my shiz and bitch and complain. I know there's a process to everything, I know there are steps to follow to get problems resolved.

I've extended that, and then some...

[Strider]

I've been following your saga by creeping your posts on the other forum.

You've been way too laid back about the whole thing. I'd have contacted the media and spread it all over social media long ago. Maybe it's finally time to burn the bridge with that dealership? They don't seem to be doing anything to help your cause... Maybe post the entire story/timeline here with the dealership name. Beyond has top notch SEO and the dealership / GM might finally take notice.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Strider
I've been following your saga by creeping your posts on the other forum.

You've been way too laid back about the whole thing. I'd have contacted the media and spread it all over social media long ago. Maybe it's finally time to burn the bridge with that dealership? They don't seem to be doing anything to help your cause... Maybe post the entire story/timeline here with the dealership name. Beyond has top notch SEO and the dealership / GM might finally take notice.

Snap, you're on CadillacForums? :)

Again, I'm not on here to attack or anything, just need someone to refer me to a couple 3rd party certified mechanics I can hire to do the safety analysis and inspection...

Can anyone recommend?

[relyt92]

Holy shit at the brakes. Would it take you not being able to stop and rolling into a person/crosswalk/vehicle for them to take you seriously? No recommendations about a shop but I'd be sharing that video everywhere.

[J.M.]

Holy shit :nut:

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by relyt92
Holy shit at the brakes. Would it take you not being able to stop and rolling into a person/crosswalk/vehicle for them to take you seriously? No recommendations about a shop but I'd be sharing that video everywhere.

I asked the rep that at GM Canada's Executive review team numerous times over a period of 2 months. She just would say "Mr. Wagner, the dealer cannot duplicate your concerns with the brakes."

I told her I could even send her service work orders, and she already had a picture of the DIC reporting "Service Brake Assist", and she just kept repeating herself.

Finally I sent an e-mail with all the service work orders, again a copy of the picture of "Service Brake Assist", finally she said "I agree there may have been a misunderstanding, and will investigate further".

After a week of not hearing from her again, I followed up with her, asking for a response again (original e-mail asked for a written response).

She called immediately and said again "Mr. Wagner, the dealer cannot duplicate your concern with the brakes or steering column. I spoke with the service manager, and they said after driving the vehicle for numerous days they could not duplicate it."

I've provided very simple instructions on how to reproduce the easily reproducible issues. It's been producible since the first day I brought it.

I've also mentioned the random issues with the brakes (snapping sensations in the pedal, pedal drops, pedal kicks, ABS sensation when completely stopped, ABS sensation when pedal gets hard at highway speeds, etc...). And no one is taking it seriously.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by relyt92
Holy shit at the brakes. Would it take you not being able to stop and rolling into a person/crosswalk/vehicle for them to take you seriously? No recommendations about a shop but I'd be sharing that video everywhere.



Originally posted by J.M.
Holy shit :nut:


At low speed it keeps rolling, until you take your foot off the brake for 7-10 seconds or so, then you can use the pedal again for 1 or 2 full presses.

At high speed when this happens, you'll floor the brakes as hard as you can, and you'll gradually feel it grab over 4-7 seconds with a combination of an ABS and grinding sensation.

The day I took that video was a "good day" with the brakes. But what's weird is the day it actually came up with a "Service Brake Assist", it was a good day until that message came up, in which case afterwards if you just gently pressed the brakes, the tires would lock up. The error only popped up that one time a while ago. On bad days, no errors pop up, etc...

When the error did pop up, I had to use manual shift and downshift to slow down before lights, and then press the brakes and lock the tires just to make the final stop to get home. After unloading the vehicle that day, I turned it back on, the service message was gone, and the lockup issue disappeared. Took it to the dealer that day, they said the vacuum hose was faulty (even though it was replaced a week prior). They replaced it again, cleared the codes (without documenting them on my service work order), and that was it. Still having the same old issues though, only getting worse.

It's a pain in the ass in rush hour traffic. There's been a few times where I've been continuously cut off or had to press the brakes 2-4 times consecutively, where the pedal becomes rock hard and I lose the ability to brake.

[corsvette]

Has a GM customer service rep chimed in on the Cadillac forums? A recent thread on gminsidenews had a unhappy ATS customer get a replacement car from GM after numerous attempts the dealer made to fix an issue. This was done through some members on that forum that obviously have some pull over at GM. He's happy now and they managed to keep a good customer happy, just the way it should be.

A repeat customer of their luxury brand should have had a replacement sitting in your driveway by now.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by corsvette
Has a GM customer service rep chimed in on the Cadillac forums? A recent thread on gminsidenews had a unhappy ATS customer get a replacement car from GM after numerous attempts the dealer made to fix an issue. This was done through some members on that forum that obviously have some pull over at GM. He's happy now and they managed to keep a good customer happy, just the way it should be.

A repeat customer of their luxury brand should have had a replacement sitting in your driveway by now.

Cadillac Customer Care reached out to me initially on CadillacForums telling me I need to take the vehicle in to the dealer, and told me I can contact Cadillac Customer Care in Canada and provided me the contact information. I don't believe they can do much as they are a USA team. They did provide me with contact information for Cadillac customer care in Canada. But I just went straight to the GM Canada ERT team (which I believe is the highest level of customer-to-corporate communication, correct me if I am wrong).

US Cadillac Customer Care followed up a few times, I notified them I was in touch with the ERT team in Canada, but that was it.

[natty54]

Wow pretty dangerous. It seems that you have given the dealer and brand multiple opportunities to fix your issues. Although it the dealer may not be able to replicate the issues you have video evidence of the issues. I would not expect this from a brand new car nor from the dealer who you seem to have good relationship with.

Have you contacted CAMVAP?

I would do that and make this public. Post up on the fourms, social media feeds and on Reddit. I am sure a lot of people would re-post.

I believe that is what this guy did with his brand new Porsche 991
https://www.youtube.com/user/nickmurray22/videos

[relyt92]

Originally posted by Zhariak


I asked the rep that at GM Canada's Executive review team numerous times over a period of 2 months. She just would say "Mr. Wagner, the dealer cannot duplicate your concerns with the brakes."

I told her I could even send her service work orders, and she already had a picture of the DIC reporting "Service Brake Assist", and she just kept repeating herself.

Finally I sent an e-mail with all the service work orders, again a copy of the picture of "Service Brake Assist", finally she said "I agree there may have been a misunderstanding, and will investigate further".

After a week of not hearing from her again, I followed up with her, asking for a response again (original e-mail asked for a written response).

She called immediately and said again "Mr. Wagner, the dealer cannot duplicate your concern with the brakes or steering column. I spoke with the service manager, and they said after driving the vehicle for numerous days they could not duplicate it."

I've provided very simple instructions on how to reproduce the easily reproducible issues. It's been producible since the first day I brought it.

I've also mentioned the random issues with the brakes (snapping sensations in the pedal, pedal drops, pedal kicks, ABS sensation when completely stopped, ABS sensation when pedal gets hard at highway speeds, etc...). And no one is taking it seriously. Yeah, if they're giving you the run around take this to the media, get some big lemon stickers and put them on it and park right outside the dealership even.

[roopi]

Originally posted by Zhariak


Trust me, I've tried. I'm a bit upset about that. It did get the ball rolling on a few issues, but not the response I would have liked to have seen.

I've spent too much time with the service managers, the service advisers, talking to my sales guy, and talking with GM Canada's executive review team.

I'm not one to lose my shiz and bitch and complain. I know there's a process to everything, I know there are steps to follow to get problems resolved.

I've extended that, and then some...

I never did finish this thread but if you haven't seen it there might be some useful info in it for you:
http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/eastside-dodge-sold-me-a-lemon/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282459&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

[BrknFngrs]

You should take the Service Manager from the dealer for a ride and show him first hand how great it feels unexpectedly not having brakes!

[Kloubek]

If you so choose to take this to the media, pm me. I know someone who might be able to help out.

[killramos]

You could always just blow the whistle on cadillac as a whole?

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/menu.htm

Give them a call and tell them you think Cadillac is trying to bury a major safety defect.

GM has a horrible reputation for this, they might actually take notice if you send them your evidence?

Your braking sounds like a 100% electronic problem so there is little to nothing a third party shop could do for you imo... Unless the car is self declaring codes there is nothing for them to read.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by killramos
You could always just blow the whistle on cadillac as a whole?

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/menu.htm

Give them a call and tell them you think Cadillac is trying to bury a major safety defect.

GM has a horrible reputation for this, they might actually take notice if you send them your evidence?

Your braking sounds like a 100% electronic problem so there is little to nothing a third party shop could do for you imo... Unless the car is self declaring codes there is nothing for them to read.

I just got off the phone with Transport Canada. Complaint has been filed and service work orders along with videos have been submitted.

[The_Penguin]

Originally posted by Zhariak


Snap, you're on CadillacForums? :)



Me too, usually in the CTS forum. Just finished reading your thread, what a friggin' gong show.


Hope the dealership isn't the one I use. Tough my main warranty just expired having never had an issue, just oil changes and a couple tire repairs, so my dealership could be full of incompetent techs, and I just never got the chance to find out. :)

[killramos]

Originally posted by Zhariak


I just got off the phone with Transport Canada. Complaint has been filed and service work orders along with videos have been submitted.

I think Cadillac will take notice to all of their Escalades having certification pulled ( ie no imports, sales, potential mandatory recall)

I imagine Cadillac makes most of their money off Escalades in this country to.

At least you know TC has teeth, tough to say they will actually follow through with anything but here's to hoping :thumbsup:

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by killramos


I think Cadillac will take notice to all of their Escalades having certification pulled ( ie no imports, sales, potential mandatory recall)

I imagine Cadillac makes most of their money off Escalades in this country to.

At least you know TC has teeth, tough to say they will actually follow through with anything but here's to hoping :thumbsup:

When I spoke to the investigator at TC, he mentioned all they do is take reports, document the complaint, and CC on to the automakers if I allow the information to be forwarded (which I of course did).

Although the information is mostly for recalls and identifying issues at a broad, the investigator did want details, videos, etc... He was kinda surprised that no one has been willing to help me.

[M.alex]

Probably should have just taken the loss and flipped it at a dealership and let it be their problem?


You're not going to get a satisfactory resolution; it's Canada, not the US, GM will tell you to basically go eat a dick.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Have you gone for a ride yet with a service tech from a dealer? If the issues are easily repeatable, wouldn't it be easy to show them first hand?

Sorry about your issues though, that is crazy. Personally I wouldn't be driving the vehicle if it had brake issues. If something happened, and it was found out that you knew the brakes were obviously faulty, that might be bad news.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Have you gone for a ride yet with a service tech from a dealer? If the issues are easily repeatable, wouldn't it be easy to show them first hand?

Sorry about your issues though, that is crazy. Personally I wouldn't be driving the vehicle if it had brake issues. If something happened, and it was found out that you knew the brakes were obviously faulty, that might be bad news.

There was a couple of test drives, but we were always looking at 8+ issues at a time and focus was everywhere... You have to keep in mind the vehicle was in the shop for most of January and February with the exception of a night here and there (I'd pick it up and have to drive it back the next morning), and a weekend or two.

With the first batch of brake issues, I provided information on how to duplicate what could be duplicated. As new issues came up after I got it towed in, I provided information on how to duplicate those as well.

I thought back when "Service Brake Assist" popped up on the DIC that it would finally answer all the questions and get the ball rolling on the braking stuff. Then I got the phone call that they replaced the vacuum hose that was on order. That was strange considering it was replaced a week or two prior (as stated on my service work order), when I asked about this I was told it was never replaced, then was later told it was replaced twice. Unfortunately the codes the braking system stated were never recorded on the service work order. So we'll never know what those codes were. Just keep in mind that the braking issues continued and are progressively getting worse as time goes on, even after the 1 or 2 hose replacements (the check valve was also replaced on the first hose replacement).

I'd constantly send e-mails providing as much information as possible and asking questions. After I asked about the double hose replacement, I was later at one point told the braking issues were related to a steering column module that wasn't programmed correctly when my steering column was replaced, odd thing is, when the steering column is replaced AFAIK they remove all existing modules from old, and install it in to the new.

The amount of my own time I've had to waste on this ownership experience has been a joke...

[spikerS]

if they just offered to buy back the vehicle at full price, would you take it?

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by spikerS
if they just offered to buy back the vehicle at full price, would you take it?

That's all I was asking for until I had my last phone call with the ERT rep at GM Canada last Thursday which made me lose my shiz

[Zhariak]

Sent the new videos of the braking issues and steering column issues to the rep at ERT at GM Canada a couple days ago.

Missed a call and got a voicemail from the rep at ERT at GM Canada:

The message just stated that she received the videos and have forwarded them on to the engineers, and that she "can't make any further comment at this time, but wanted to acknowledge receipt of the videos".

[Zhariak]

So since I got the truck back a week or two ago, I haven't been driving it due to the obvious safety issues. Thankfully the weather has been nice enough for my to drive my CTS-V.

Anyways, we got a giant dump of snow overnight, so the V is back in the garage. Had some errands to run this morning so reluctantly took the Escalade out since I can't stop my life because of this.

Today the brakes are hard, and they aren't getting better if you wait 10 seconds or so. Decided it wasn't safe (especially with the snow), turned around and came home after going a couple blocks, no more then 10km out.

Guess I'll be renting a vehicle until I can get the V back out.


You know, it's awesome, buy a $99,995.00 vehicle, it sits in the shop for two months, can't drive it since it's not safe since the brakes don't function properly, have to rent a vehicle now, ALL while I'm still paying the $1,500 monthly finance payments. Bravo...

[killramos]

Originally posted by Zhariak
ALL while I'm still paying the $1,500 monthly finance payments. Bravo...

:eek:

[lilmira]

subscribed

Cadillac: How dare driving an Escalade with no brakes

[M.alex]

Originally posted by Zhariak

You know, it's awesome, buy a $99,995.00 vehicle, it sits in the shop for two months, can't drive it since it's not safe since the brakes don't function properly, have to rent a vehicle now, ALL while I'm still paying the $1,500 monthly finance payments. Bravo...

take the loss and dump it at the dealer and get something new :dunno:

[revelations]

There was a thread here a while back from a fellow who had similar (braking) issues with his new Dodge Charger from Eastside.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/eastside-dodge-sold-me-a-lemon/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282459&perpage=40&highlight=&pagenumber=1

Cant recall the exact details but he ended up trailering the vehicle in front of the dealer with logos all over it "EAST SIDE SOLD ME A LEMON" ... where he stood for a couple of days.

Personally, I wold be irate enough to HIRE someone to do this.

[spikerS]

*BUMP*

been a week, any updates?

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by spikerS
*BUMP*

been a week, any updates?

Hopefully have one soon. Couple things on the go right now...

[thinmyster]

What happened to this? Id like to hear the outcome

[Lex350]

FFS go public already!

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by rotten42
FFS go public already!

I did, there's been quite a few developments. 2nd field engineer came out to dealer, said everything was ok.

Reached out to Zack Spencer, got about 15-20 minutes of airtime on CISL 650AM a couple weekends ago on his radio show.

Couple hundred km later after the 2nd field engineer said everything was ok, I received another "SERVICE: Brake Assist" message on the DIC, called onstar, ran diagnostics. It's been parked since. Days before that had an episode downtown where the vehicle rolled into a crosswalk when stopping at a red light, startled the girlfriend.

Had a call from GM Canada ERT Yesterday telling me they believe the issues are due to my "application of use of vehicle", and don't apply to normal driving (which is BS, I drive like an old man). They said they would offer me $5,000 off a future purchase if I traded the vehicle in sometime in the future. They said the engineer checked the vehicle and put lots of kilometers on it (this is BS. KM going in, matched KM going out, I even went for a half kilometer road test with the foreman, and it didn't increase the kms).

Asked about what I'm supposed to do now with the message, they had no idea it popped up again. I told them I e-mailed my contact at ERT with a picture 20 minutes after it happened, and said I never received a response (The message appeared and I sent the e-mail May 6th, it is now May 20th), they told me the e-mail may have been lost. I mentioned I received a read receipt to the e-mail the following morning, but no actual reply. They said they are going to check in to it, and I have another call scheduled for next Thursday.

Literally, the call was the usual "Everything is fine with the vehicle, it's all in your head, here's a discount to stop wasting our resources" type of call. The only reason why there's a follow up, and conversation is still going is because the new person that was involved in the conference call, had absolutely no idea that the vehicle was stating "Service: Brake Assist" yet again. I made damn sure to call Onstar, because the first time this happened, GM Canada was firm on their stance that there was no concern, and it meant nothing, and I couldn't even get them to acknowledge that the vehicle did this.

More detail on the other forum. I didn't want to post here until there were some major developments, and I could sum up the entire story from start to finish.

If you want to hear the radio show, it's "Driving with Zack Spencer", it was on May 9th.
http://www.cisl650.com/shows/driving-with-zack-spencer.aspx

[Lex350]

I think the only way you are going to get traction is to drag the dealership through the mud.

[lilmira]

What's the response from Transport Canada? This is brutal.

[Zhariak]

Here's a link to the master thread:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-escalade-esv-forum-2015/635369-finally-made-service-appointment-multiple-issues.html

This is the entire story, starting from beginning to now. Keep in mind I originally believed all these issues were going to be fixed, and the thread was originally created to help other owners experiencing the same issues.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by lilmira
What's the response from Transport Canada? This is brutal.

Their role is strictly a safety governance body, not to help people out. Last phone call the guy felt so bad he was trying to give me advice on what to do (even though this isn't his job).

They record safety concerns, and investigate them (looking for trends on multiple vehicles) to figure out if there is a big safety concern, etc...

[revelations]

Dude, IMO you have been far too nice and have avoided raising serious hell for whatever reason.

The dealership should be the main focus of your campaigns. Park the truck OUTSIDE the lot with huge signs all over it, post on social media, talk to local news etc. Spend a sunny weekend walking around their sidewalk with a giant billboard.

Youre out how much? 20,000$?? My god I would have lost it ages ago.

[roopi]

Originally posted by revelations
Dude, IMO you have been far too nice and have avoided raising serious hell for whatever reason.

The dealership should be the main focus of your campaigns. Park the truck OUTSIDE the lot with huge signs all over it, post on social media, talk to local news etc. Spend a sunny weekend walking around their sidewalk with a giant billboard.

Youre out how much? 20,000$?? My god I would have lost it ages ago.

:werd:

You've lost enough money time on this. Spend a couple hundred and have the info plastered all over the Escalade and park it in front of the dealership.

Clearly no one gives a shit and they will just continue brushing you off. Time to step it up.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by revelations
Dude, IMO you have been far too nice and have avoided raising serious hell for whatever reason.

The dealership should be the main focus of your campaigns. Park the truck OUTSIDE the lot with huge signs all over it, post on social media, talk to local news etc. Spend a sunny weekend walking around their sidewalk with a giant billboard.

Youre out how much? 20,000$?? My god I would have lost it ages ago.



Originally posted by roopi


:werd:

You've lost enough money time on this. Spend a couple hundred and have the info plastered all over the Escalade and park it in front of the dealership.

Clearly no one gives a shit and they will just continue brushing you off. Time to step it up.

We'll see what happens, but right now all the communication is with GM.

[M.alex]

Originally posted by M.alex
Probably should have just taken the loss and flipped it at a dealership and let it be their problem?


You're not going to get a satisfactory resolution; it's Canada, not the US, GM will tell you to basically go eat a dick.

i must have a crystal ball.

[lilmira]

May be we should test the fine working brakes in front of the dealership.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Have you had your Escalade appraised? Might be time to look at trading out of it, if you're curious about a trade in value let me know.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Have you had your Escalade appraised? Might be time to look at trading out of it, if you're curious about a trade in value let me know.

I have, it'd be around a $16-17K loss. I find this unacceptable. Hence why I went to the media.

I'll have more to report after the conference call scheduled for tomorrow with GM Canada.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Zhariak


I have, it'd be around a $16-17K loss. I find this unacceptable. Hence why I went to the media.

I'll have more to report after the conference call scheduled for tomorrow with GM Canada.

I can almost guarantee you that sweet F... all will get done except more empty promises which will end up meaningless.

Clearly civil communications has gotten you nowhere.

You have 2 options:

- civil suit (could take years), but even a letter from an attorney could help expedite matters.
- immediate action against the dealership.


Otherwise, kiss your $20,000$ loss good bye. Some people have that kind of money to burn mind you ..... :dunno:

[ercchry]

well, you probably have the depreciation coverage on your insurance right? try and "stop" while pointed right at their showroom, win, win :poosie:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by revelations


I can almost guarantee you that sweet F... all will get done except more empty promises which will end up meaningless.

Clearly civil communications has gotten you nowhere.

You have 2 options:

- civil suit (could take years), but even a letter from an attorney could help expedite matters.
- immediate action against the dealership.


Otherwise, kiss your $20,000$ loss good bye. Some people have that kind of money to burn mind you ..... :dunno:

If the dealership cares they'll step up on the trade value and or at least get you into a new vehicle for cost, as far as the dealer is concerned it's an issue between the owner and GM Canada. A lot of dealers would just turn a blind eye as they've sold the car and can technically wipe their hands of it if they want too.

[tehwegz]

I notice this with the Cadillac SRX...the stock pedal feel is sooo stiff and can be difficult to stop.

Its got to be something like a faulty brake booster or an insufficient one :dunno:

[Zhariak]

Just had the call, they were almost an hour late from the scheduled time...

She told me the Onstar diagnostics reported a Code: C025E, to do with the vacuum level sensor...

I was told that if the vehicle is restarted an doesn't show the message again, that there is no urgency to bring it in for service and I can do it at my own convenience.

Keep in mind this happened once before in Jan/Feb. Around 3 days before it occurred the first time, the dealership replaced the vacuum hose, and the vacuum sensor. After the message occurred, they replaced the vacuum hose. Now months later (with me still reporting brake issues), it happened again. Something tells me it's not the sensor or the hose, especially since I've been reporting brake failure.

I was told the engineer said the seat movement is normal, and compared it to other vehicles. I mentioned that I wouldn't expect this on the cheapest of new vehicles, let alone a brand new $99,998.00 Cadillac. I also mentioned when they performed the TSB, that it multiplied the movement by a minimum factor of 4. They told me that the engineer confirmed this is standard behavior for the vehicle (so keep this in mind in case you're considering purchasing a new 2015 Escalade).

Also explained that the steering wheel never wiggled before the dealership replaced the dash cluster (my dash cluster was replaced 3 times).

They mentioned again the $5,000 rebate is available to me for a year since they want to keep me on board as a Cadillac customer... Told me if I'd like I can contact CAMVAP.

Also, When the vehicle was in the shop for all of April, she mentioned on Tuesday that the engineer put lots of kilometers on the vehicle testing it. Today on the phone, I asked her why the kilometers in, matched the kilometers out. I was even called in for a test drive with the foreman. During the rushed test drive, we didn't even do half a kilometer since the foreman wanted to go back to the dealership. Even with this drive, the kilometers in, matched the kilometers out which is documented on the service work order.

Ultimately we agreed to end the call since it wasn't going anywhere.

[revelations]

)deletde post was of little use(

[quick_scar]

Buddy and I were talking about this thread the other day. Wondering what was happening. We feel for you. This has also killed any chance either of us would ever buy a Cadillac. Just brutal the shit you have gone through to try and resolve this.

[vengie]

I honestly cannot believe not a single person has stepped up to the plate yet to admit fault. Its quite clearly a well documented, on going issue that can have SEVERE safety repercussions.

If I were you, I would do as mentioned earlier in this thread and contact every single media outlet you can to make this public, and park the car outside the dealership with a sign etc on it.

This thread alone makes me seriously question ever buying another GM vehicle.

[Zhariak]

And one more update...

Turned vehicle on for the first time since the message appeared on May 6th...

Message on DIC is now gone...

Press the brake pedal a few times, pedal slowly goes down to as far as it mechanically can, the message won't re-appear.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Zhariak
J

She told me the Onstar diagnostics reported a Code: C025E, to do with the vacuum level sensor...

I was told that if the vehicle is restarted an doesn't show the message again, that there is no urgency to bring it in for service and I can do it at my own convenience.

Keep in mind this happened once before in Jan/Feb. Around 3 days before it occurred the first time, the dealership replaced the vacuum hose, and the vacuum sensor. After the message occurred, they replaced the vacuum hose. Now months later (with me still reporting brake issues), it happened again. Something tells me it's not the sensor or the hose, especially since I've been reporting brake failure.


The whole time reading the thread, I kept wondering if the vacuum isn't what's fucking your brakes up. So basically you might be experiencing a sudden loss of power brakes, and manual braking does feel scary as shit in a vehicle as big as yours.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok



The whole time reading the thread, I kept wondering if the vacuum isn't what's fucking your brakes up. So basically you might be experiencing a sudden loss of power brakes, and manual braking does feel scary as shit in a vehicle as big as yours.

What happens is the pedal gets rock hard....

If I'm doing over 10km/h (let's say I'm driving on the highway), I go to brake and the pedal is rock hard. I'll put as much force as I can on the pedal and I'll start feeling an ABS like sensation, and you can also feel ticking (the ticking is a separate sensation) in the pedal and hear a grinding sound as well. The vehicle will eventually start to slow down (sometimes faster than others).

If I'm doing below 10km/h, the pedal just stays rock hard and the vehicle continues to coast, especially bad on declines. Entering underground parkades, or stopping going downhill. Especially if there's someone infront of me who isn't braking at a constant pace (if I have to change my amount of braking, every adjustment causes me to lose more brakes). When going under, the grinding, ABS, ticking does NOT kick in...

I'm not sure if it's exactly 10km/h, but it's somewhere around there...

Some days are better than others... There's days where I'll be sitting at a red light, and the pedal will just kick or drop, when these types of things happen, I'll know to pay extra attention on those days.

Literally, a day or two before the message appeared, I was downtown slowly decelerating to stop at a red light on 3rd street, when the pedal dropped and I rolled in to the crosswalk. It startled my girlfriend, she thought I did it purposely.

This is just an example of how aware I have to stay with the brakes, and be prepared for these situations...

[Tik-Tok]

I know you want GM to take care of this, but at this point I would honestly just get an indy shop to change your master cylinder/brake booster.

If that fixes it, and your determined to get GM to take responsibility, send out the old one for an independent inspection, and go to the media with your results.

Mind you if that doesn't fix the problem, then GM will just start blaming the indie shop.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I know you want GM to take care of this, but at this point I would honestly just get an indy shop to change your master cylinder/brake booster.

If that fixes it, and your determined to get GM to take responsibility, send out the old one for an independent inspection, and go to the media with your results.

Mind you if that doesn't fix the problem, then GM will just start blaming the indie shop.

Big problem is, even if the brakes do get fixed, I'm still left with all the other shit:

-Sounds coming from steering column
-Steering column wiggling up/down movement
-HUD movement over bumps (also occurs when steering wheel moves)
-tweet from exhaust when vehicle goes from V4 to V8 mode
-Rough engine idle
-Driver seat movement
-Driver seat creaking sound (SOOOO annoying, it's officially more annoying then the exhaust tweet)
-Grind coming from transfer case after changing to 2nd gear for first time after vehicle start (only occurs if vehicle is off for 30+ minutes)
-Brake pedal throws a temper tantrum on some starts (was told this was an ABS self test), consists of ABS feeling, kicking up and down, with grinding sound, when you start the vehicle and the engine is starting.
-Transfer case control module (electronic module, not actual transfer case) makes electrical jingle sound when in 4x4 auto, or 4x4 alltime mode (it makes the hair on the back of my neck go up, it's such a high pitched loud noise)
-Stereo issues (refuses to play music sometimes, bluetooth on vehicle rejects incoming calls)
-Key FOB issues (delay unlocking doors, sometimes the vehicle reports the FOB is not detected)
-Electronic issues (side steps do not come out on rare occasions, interior lights don't come on, steering wheel and seat don't go to memory on occasion)
-Occasionally when the steering wheel goes to memory, it will point down to as far as it can go, can pinch your legs (this has only happened 4 times, but shows there's an issue with something)
-Voice recognition sometimes does not work, the normal voice prompt on the DIC does not show, and it doesn't wait for you to talk, just pauses music for like 0.4 seconds. Normally it beeps and music stops until you say command, it should prompt on DIC with something like "Please say voice command, or say help"
-Sometimes voice prompts for NAV system do not work, no "Turn left ahead", completely dead.
-Traffic alerts never worked (the vehicle is supposed to warn you of traffic jams, accidents, etc... ahead). My CTS-V does it and it's great, this vehicle is supposed to but has never.
-HUD button assembly in dash not fastened. The button module moves (all buttons move the module in the dash, I'm thinking a clip or screw was broken)
-Vehicle gets stuck in park sometimes. Press brake, and cannot move the gear selector out of park.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by ercchry
well, you probably have the depreciation coverage on your insurance right? try and "stop" while pointed right at their showroom, win, win :poosie:

Now there's a client that has been paying attention!

I'm truly baffled at how one vehicle can be this bad. OP, you have the worst luck. I don't know how you're going to get out of this.

[A790]

I bet you Jalopnik would find this story super interesting :)

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit


Now there's a client that has been paying attention!

I'm truly baffled at how one vehicle can be this bad. OP, you have the worst luck. I don't know how you're going to get out of this.

I know!

I see that you're an "Insurance Guru"...

Question, how does insurance work in a case like this? I've been told by various people I shouldn't be driving the vehicle knowing there's an issue with the brakes, as this could void my insurance, just by knowing they aren't functioning properly.

Dealer has had a stance of "Cannot duplicate braking concerns", so technically I'm assuming this removes their liability if something does go wrong.

Most recently I demonstrated the brake failure by 3 slow applications of the brake, in which case the foreman said this was normal and was due to me depleting the brake booster. When I asked the dealership to include this on the service work order, they put:

XXXX ***DMXXXX ROAD TEST. WAS NOT ABLE TO VERIFY CONCERN. ROAD TEST
WITH CUSTOMER DRIVING. WHEN SLOWING FROM 15KM HE RAPIDLY PUSHED THE
BRAKE PEDAL ABOUT 6 TIMES IN LESS THAN 5 SEC. PEDAL THAN GOT HARD AND
DROPPED. HE HAS DEPLETED THE BRAKE BOOSTER RESERVOIR .ADVISED CUSTOMER
THE BRAKE SYSTEM TO NOT DESIGNED TO BE OPERATED IN THIS MANNER. EVEN
THOUGH YOU STILL HAVE THE BASE BRAKES WITH OUT THE ASSIST OF THE BRAKE
BOOSTER THE BRAKE EFFORT TO STOP IS INCREASED. BRAKES OPERATE NORMAL
WHEN OPERATED AS DESIGNED***CLOSE OUT TO N/C TO CUSTOMER. DO NOT PAY
TECH. XXXXXX ***DMXXXX AUTH CUSTOMER SATI FACTION ONE TIME ONLY NFF N/C
TO GM***


To say the least the "6 times randomly" was an exaggeration, again I'm assuming this was stated this way to remove any liability on their end.

And again, just for the record, failure occurs sometimes on the first press. But happens regularly on occasions where the pedal has to be pressed a couple times in 10 seconds, or on occasions where the amount of braking changes with a single press but adjusting braking amount (examples: stop signs, yield signs, navigating through tight spaces, backing up, braking behind people who aren't braking at a consistent rate, etc...).

Lets say I jump in the vehicle tomorrow, and just lose brakes and get in an accident. Is my insurance void since I've been aware of the brake loss?

Let's bring up the example from days before the message appeared on my DIC, when I was stopping slowly at a red light downtown, pedal dropped and I rolled in to the crosswalk. Let's say there was a pedestrian and I accidentally ran over them with a tire or something. Am I covered with everything that has happened, or what?

[Jeeper1986]

aren't he breaks oil operated.... this isn't a damn air brake where u lose ur brakes because u run out of damn air this is really messed up

[Brent.ff]

Gotta say, I had no idea what CISL 650 is until this thread. You gotta go a lot bigger...GM probably laughed if you informed them of that.

Invite the Go Public guys to hop in and drive it..

[revelations]

Originally posted by Zhariak
Let's bring up the example from days before the message appeared on my DIC, when I was stopping slowly at a red light downtown, pedal dropped and I rolled in to the crosswalk. Let's say there was a pedestrian and I accidentally ran over them with a tire or something. Am I covered with everything that has happened, or what?

Unlikely.

In the event of a mechanical/electrical issue causing an accident, its years of paperwork and your lawyer(s) going against the manufacturers legal army, trying to prove the root cause.

Even then, you may still wind up at partial fault because the lawyer/judge will ask why you chose to drive a vehicle knowing that it was defective. Mind you, one could argue that "GM said I was safe".

If you are at fault, the onus will be on you to prove to your insurance company that there was a pre-existing mechanical/electrical defect that caused this accident.

Given GM's acknowledgement (and dismissal) of your issue, you will have a hard time getting anywhere with them, post-accident.


----------

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by revelations


Unlikely.

In the event of a mechanical/electrical issue causing an accident, its years of paperwork and your lawyer(s) going against the manufacturers legal army, trying to prove the root cause.

Even then, you may still wind up at partial fault because the lawyer/judge will ask why you chose to drive a vehicle knowing that it was defective. Mind you, one could argue that "GM said I was safe".

If you are at fault, the onus will be on you to prove to your insurance company that there was a pre-existing mechanical/electrical defect that caused this accident.

Given GM's acknowledgement (and dismissal) of your issue, you will have a hard time getting anywhere with them, post-accident.


----------

That's exactly what I'm concerned about. That's the reason why I haven't really driven the vehicle in all of 2015... That's why I'm still fishy about jumping in the driver seat and taking it out on the streets. I was nervous to even call my insurance company and ask for their opinion, just in case it flagged them to cancel the insurance since I would notify them of a potential problem (which would no doubt effect the financing on the vehicle, since it has to remain insured while financing is in place).

The only thing I could think of that would help my case, is in the event of an accident, hoping the computer would record the amount of force I exert on the brakes, and that the vehicle itself wasn't stopping... But I have no idea what is recorded, if pressures are recorded, or if it would simply record that the brakes are applied, and not the force on the pedal.

This is what sucks so much about the situation...

[bourge73]

Your only recourse now is to go public ....
I mean you did give them a chance ?
Now unleash the Kracken!

[CompletelyNumb]

Yeah dude, full on publicity on this lemon. Get news teams to drive it. Talk about how you've been paying for it for half a year and it's never been driven since it's broken, cant afford your groceries.

Smear the shit out of the dealership that sold it to you too.

Seriously. You have few options left.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Zhariak


That's exactly what I'm concerned about. That's the reason why I haven't really driven the vehicle in all of 2015... That's why I'm still fishy about jumping in the driver seat and taking it out on the streets. I was nervous to even call my insurance company and ask for their opinion, just in case it flagged them to cancel the insurance since I would notify them of a potential problem (which would no doubt effect the financing on the vehicle, since it has to remain insured while financing is in place).

The only thing I could think of that would help my case, is in the event of an accident, hoping the computer would record the amount of force I exert on the brakes, and that the vehicle itself wasn't stopping... But I have no idea what is recorded, if pressures are recorded, or if it would simply record that the brakes are applied, and not the force on the pedal.

This is what sucks so much about the situation...

The EDR will record that brakes were applied. If there was enough force to activate the ABS, that would be recorded as well. Your best bet (if you choose to drive the vehicle) is to attach a camera to the foot well area and the front passenger area, looking at your dash specifically. That way braking can be monitored and the dash (if any warnings come up) can be recorded.

My guess is that you will take zero action otherwise (eg. confront dealer, protest, etc. as has been recommended by so many others), the least you can do is cover your ass so it doesent end up he-said, she-said in court.

Perhaps create a video log, something that can be shown in court. Start by outlining the issues NOW on camera, before any event happens.

[Cos]

.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by revelations


The EDR will record that brakes were applied. If there was enough force to activate the ABS, that would be recorded as well. Your best bet (if you choose to drive the vehicle) is to attach a camera to the foot well area and the front passenger area, looking at your dash specifically. That way braking can be monitored and the dash (if any warnings come up) can be recorded.

My guess is that you will take zero action otherwise (eg. confront dealer, protest, etc. as has been recommended by so many others), the least you can do is cover your ass so it doesent end up he-said, she-said in court.

Perhaps create a video log, something that can be shown in court. Start by outlining the issues NOW on camera, before any event happens.

Oh, I'm ready to go to town with this... Don't you worry.... I've just been following the professional course of action. Making sure I give opportunities to various parties for the potential of resolution...

Also, I'm a self-employed dude, so finding time to waste is difficult. But I still find time to deal with it.

It just seams that every time I do what I'm asked, more BS unfolds. Adds to my case.

[Jeeper1986]

record every thing they say to u on the phone and emails

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Jeeper1986
record every thing they say to u on the phone and emails

I have everything including all service work orders, and e-mails going back to the beginning.

There's a bunch of "WTF" type things said verbally I have no record of, but I have tons of stuff from e-mail, everything and anything...

I even have an e-mail from a service adviser attributing the braking issue to codes that were stored in the steering column module. For example from February 3rd:

"they attributed the braking issue to be related to the codes that were stored in the module for the steering column that was not set up properly when it was replaced - those 2 modules communicate - since we updated that, it has not been an issue since."

(and yes, this was a direct copy/paste from an e-mail)

The paper trail I have shows an absolute gong show took place with this.

[CompletelyNumb]

Which dealership?

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
Which dealership?

I'm not naming the dealership yet. I'm not at that point.

[Zhariak]

Originally posted by Zhariak


IoHFWF180cI
(Losing brakes going down decline in to underground parkade)

_bFQgH5iB24

UxqgKZ2QzhE

U2zEbJuzZrk

n2XjgD21MkA

x36gcK008ms

iOJ-us_ppeg

ldcalpfsuxE [/B]

Even with these videos, presented to the dealer so that they would be provided to the engineer, all but one were all marked as "Dealer cannot duplicate concern", and the dealer didn't even add one of the issues to the service work order (I believe the one that wasn't added was the vehicle getting stuck in park).

And as I quote from the last phone call with GM Canada ERT:

"So these issues that you mention too, some of them are either the design of the vehicle, or they're actually something that was not duplicated when compared to another vehicle"

(The issues) "Some of them as I said, definitely you know, the field engineer can Identify, we aren't saying they aren't there, we are saying corrective action is not required"

"The seat as an example, he can definitely induce that operation each and every time, but it is the way the seat is designed in the vehicle, it will do what it's doing"

"So I don't think from a vehicle standpoint I'm ever going to have you 100% satisfied in that vehicle, and that's exactly why I still went down the road as I said with the management incentive"

[relyt92]

Your patience is astounding.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by Zhariak


I know!

I see that you're an "Insurance Guru"...

Question, how does insurance work in a case like this? I've been told by various people I shouldn't be driving the vehicle knowing there's an issue with the brakes, as this could void my insurance, just by knowing they aren't functioning properly.

Dealer has had a stance of "Cannot duplicate braking concerns", so technically I'm assuming this removes their liability if something does go wrong.

Most recently I demonstrated the brake failure by 3 slow applications of the brake, in which case the foreman said this was normal and was due to me depleting the brake booster. When I asked the dealership to include this on the service work order, they put:

XXXX ***DMXXXX ROAD TEST. WAS NOT ABLE TO VERIFY CONCERN. ROAD TEST
WITH CUSTOMER DRIVING. WHEN SLOWING FROM 15KM HE RAPIDLY PUSHED THE
BRAKE PEDAL ABOUT 6 TIMES IN LESS THAN 5 SEC. PEDAL THAN GOT HARD AND
DROPPED. HE HAS DEPLETED THE BRAKE BOOSTER RESERVOIR .ADVISED CUSTOMER
THE BRAKE SYSTEM TO NOT DESIGNED TO BE OPERATED IN THIS MANNER. EVEN
THOUGH YOU STILL HAVE THE BASE BRAKES WITH OUT THE ASSIST OF THE BRAKE
BOOSTER THE BRAKE EFFORT TO STOP IS INCREASED. BRAKES OPERATE NORMAL
WHEN OPERATED AS DESIGNED***CLOSE OUT TO N/C TO CUSTOMER. DO NOT PAY
TECH. XXXXXX ***DMXXXX AUTH CUSTOMER SATI FACTION ONE TIME ONLY NFF N/C
TO GM***


To say the least the "6 times randomly" was an exaggeration, again I'm assuming this was stated this way to remove any liability on their end.

And again, just for the record, failure occurs sometimes on the first press. But happens regularly on occasions where the pedal has to be pressed a couple times in 10 seconds, or on occasions where the amount of braking changes with a single press but adjusting braking amount (examples: stop signs, yield signs, navigating through tight spaces, backing up, braking behind people who aren't braking at a consistent rate, etc...).

Lets say I jump in the vehicle tomorrow, and just lose brakes and get in an accident. Is my insurance void since I've been aware of the brake loss?

Let's bring up the example from days before the message appeared on my DIC, when I was stopping slowly at a red light downtown, pedal dropped and I rolled in to the crosswalk. Let's say there was a pedestrian and I accidentally ran over them with a tire or something. Am I covered with everything that has happened, or what?

I've been following your situation and thinking about the insurance implications. If you end up in an accident due to the loss of braking ability (rear-end someone for example) you will be found at fault. As part of your statement to the adjuster I can only assume you would disclose the prior braking issues with the vehicle. At that point the insurance company can chose to do one of two things: First they could ignore your comments and proceed with settling the claim as normal. And honestly if there is less than $20,000 damage, that's probably the route they would take. The second option would be for the insurance company to look into the braking issue and potentially commence action against GM / the dealership and say that they are liable. Obviously there would need to be some pretty big money at play here for an insurance company to take a swing at someone like GM. If you end up running down a pedestrian and the insurance company is facing a $850,000 injury lawsuit because you put someone in a wheelchair, you better believe the shark-like lawyers are coming to the table.

The safe bet here is to not drive the vehicle. However that's not very realistic either. Chances are that if you continue to drive the vehicle and hit something, you're going to get hung with an at-fault claim on your record. Even if the insurance company goes after GM / the dealership, that stuff takes years to work through the system and you'll be paying increased rates the entire time.

I know which dealership is involved but I won't disclose it as per your wishes to date. I can say though that it's not a giant surprise. I have behind the scenes knowledge of a lot of dealer operations in this town and the players involved aren't a shock at all.

You might be sick of hearing it but I'll echo what most others have already said, the vehicle isn't safe and GM has ignored you. They will keep ignoring you until this is escalated well beyond private emails. Media attention is warranted at this stage. Hell it was warranted along time ago. You've been far too nice and accommodating.

Have you considered taking the vehicle to a different dealership to see if they can duplicate / find the issue? If that has happened already I apologize for missing it.

[sputnik]

This may sound really old school, but I would recommend sending a letter to GM Canada and GM USA.

A friends son-in-law had a lemon of a Dodge Ram (surprise!) and took it to every dealership in the Calgary/Lethbridge area and they just kept fixing the symptoms and not the problem.

He then sent letters to the head offices detailing his experiences with copies of the work orders (and in your case a link to this thread would help) and he was quickly given a refund for his purchase.

I would recommend taking the vehicle to other dealerships as well. This shows that there is a problem with the vehicle and not just a single tech and a single dealership.

TL;DR - Don't try and convince the dealership you are unhappy. Go to the corporate head office.