Telus to start enforcing bandwith caps

[J-D]

Starting March 30, 2015, fees will be applied to customers who exceed their Internet plan’s monthly data allowance. Most TELUS customers are already on an Internet plan that meets their current needs. Only those that exceed their plan – the heaviest Internet users – will incur an additional charge. If you are one of those customers, you will be notified before being charged.


http://www.telus.com/en/bc/get-help/account-and-billing/understand-your-bill/ffh/usage-based-internet-charges/support.do

:banghead:

[firebane]

Oh woe is thee. Everyone got fed up with Shaw and jumped to Telus and now Telus will be charging over usage.

[benyl]

Doesn't bother me. It would be better if they rolled over data. I pay for 500GB, but if I don't use it, I lose it. Lame.

[eblend]

Subscribe to Unlimited Data Usage for $30/mo – or just $15/mo if you also subscribe to any TELUS TV service.

[theken]

since their TV is run through internet, if you watch tv all day they will penalize you for watching tv? seems like bad business

[snowcat]

Originally posted by benyl
Doesn't bother me. It would be better if they rolled over data. I pay for 500GB, but if I don't use it, I lose it. Lame.

They don't credit, but they'll charge you.

Great for business, shit for consumer.

[killramos]

Originally posted by theken
since their TV is run through internet, if you watch tv all day they will penalize you for watching tv? seems like bad business

Optik TV usage isn't metered as data.

People who get mad at the companies who do this do realize that they are doing it to penalize the 10PM to 6AM scheduled torrenters who are pulling a TB+ from their 10-20 mbps (el cheapo) internet plans. Those heavy users arent paying for their share of the costs of running the system, which drives up the costs for everyone else.

Customers have no one to blame but themselves. IMO i see strictly enforcing caps leading to lower overall costs as the ultra high bandwidth users will be effectively forced to upgrade their plans to a higher tier and finally pay for themselves properly.

Similar concept to those who steal power from the grid. When it all comes in at the end of the month the unaccounted usage is tallied up and divided across all subscribers in the area. The only difference is Telus is just including it all in their rates.

:dunno:

[speedog]

Originally posted by firebane
Oh woe is thee. Everyone got fed up with Shaw and jumped to Telus and now Telus will be charging over usage.
Bandwidth cap limits are coming with Shaw as well - been discussed elsewhere on Beyond in the recent past. Really shouldn't come as a shock to anyone as it was just a matter of time before this happened.

Theken - Optik TV usage does not affect your monthly data allowance with the exception of anything watched on channel 422 (Netflix) or so I've been told about channel 422.

Personally, I will probably bump up to the TELUS Internet 50 offering as it will provide more than enough data for our home (Looking back at past usage) plus we double our speeds for a measly $6 a month more over the TELUS Internet 25 plan - $6 for me because I toiled there long enough to get 40% off of my TELUS services.

[speedog]

Originally posted by benyl
Doesn't bother me. It would be better if they rolled over data. I pay for 500GB, but if I don't use it, I lose it. Lame.
Really?

Can we assume you've also been using a sperm bank all these years as well?

[benyl]

Originally posted by speedog

Really?

Can we assume you've also been using a sperm bank all these years as well?

Just because this is the norm, doesn't mean it should remain that way. Tmobile in the US is rolling over cell phone data. I think you will see more and more of it in the future.

[speedog]

Originally posted by benyl
Just because this is the norm, doesn't mean it should remain that way. Tmobile in the US is rolling over cell phone data. I think you will see more and more of it in the future.
Would be nice, roll over that is - would love to see it on my medical plans and lots of other things as well. In reality though, there isn't much incentive for a company to do roll over plans other then customer retention/loyalty and customer retention/loyalty doesn't appear to be something that is really a big deal to companies like TELUS or Shaw. Seeing more of this in the future in Canada - nope, can't agree with you. In the USA, maybe but not here in Canada.

[killramos]

Originally posted by speedog

Would be nice, roll over that is - would love to see it on my medical plans and lots of other things as well. In reality though, there isn't much incentive for a company to do roll over plans other then customer retention/loyalty and customer retention/loyalty doesn't appear to be something that is really a big deal to companies like TELUS or Shaw. Seeing more of this in the future in Canada - nope, can't agree with you. In the USA, maybe but not here in Canada.

Canadian Companies are also not very creative. in 6-18 months Telus and Shaw employees will be sitting in a marketting meeting about what their next big promotion will be. And they will just copy something the Americans have done that has been shown to work.

:dunno:

[HiTempguy1]

Killramos, if you think this has anything to do with torrenting, you honestly havent looked into or understand the situation.

First, if there is capacity available on a network, why does it matter how much someone downloads? The answer is that it doesn't. The cost of the network is the same for a given size up to 100% of its utilization. Costs dont magically go down because there is less data flowing through the network.

And that isnt the issue anyways. They are doing this to kill netflix. Currently not a big deal... If only one tv is used with netflix. If you have kids and both parents and kids use netflix, I bet you would exceed 500gb in a month no sweat between multiple tvs.

But of course, that still isnt the issue. They want to kill 720p/1080p streaming services and force people back into cable or into their personal streaming services.

[benyl]

It's funny that they would deploy Netflix to set top boxes.

[rage2]

wKL04ja5n44


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Killramos, if you think this has anything to do with torrenting, you honestly havent looked into or understand the situation.

First, if there is capacity available on a network, why does it matter how much someone downloads? The answer is that it doesn't. The cost of the network is the same for a given size up to 100% of its utilization. Costs dont magically go down because there is less data flowing through the network.
The problem is that the torrenters are maxing out the network capacity. If it's not controlled, there's a huge cost in increasing network capacity to cater to these heavy users. That model isn't scalable.

There's also peering costs, but in the grand scheme of things, that's much less than the cost of building network capacity.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
And that isnt the issue anyways. They are doing this to kill netflix. Currently not a big deal... If only one tv is used with netflix. If you have kids and both parents and kids use netflix, I bet you would exceed 500gb in a month no sweat between multiple tvs.
You're overestimating how much data Netflix uses. I track all our usage by device in the house using PRTG so I have a good view of what actually uses the most bandwidth. In our house, it's XBOX digital purchases, eating up to 50% of our monthly capacity when a lot of new games are released.

We have 4 TV's in the house, watch 95% of our TV online between 2 adults and 2 children via iTunes movies (the biggest data consumer due to near BD quality), followed by Netflix, then Hulu and other misc services.

With no games out in January, meaning TV only usage, we incurred under 300GB usage. And that's 100% of our TV viewing over the internet, as I switched to NHL Gamecenter as a test for this year. Our worst months, Sept. and Nov. of last year, with a huge amount of new XB1 games (each game downloaded across 2 XB1's), we hit 502GB and 493GB respectively.

I've seen some of my friend's usage charts with their torrent downloads of absolutely everything, and they're in the TB's for 1 single person. Funny, because they probably watch less TV in total than we do.

Besides, Netflix helps providers reduce the peering and network capacity costs by allowing ISPs to setup a local Netflix CDN for free. This allows ISP customers to connect within their network for Netflix without actually going over the internet.

https://openconnect.itp.netflix.com/

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by rage2

Besides, Netflix helps providers reduce the peering and network capacity costs by allowing ISPs to setup a local Netflix CDN for free. This allows ISP customers to connect within their network for Netflix without actually going over the internet.

https://openconnect.itp.netflix.com/ [/B]

It is true they do this, but Telus (and all ISPs for that matter) still meter this as internet and will happily try to charge you overage fees on top.

I know they are claiming its to attack high bandwidth users and it will improve speeds for all, but let's face it, that isn't how the world works in reality. This is just another place to get more revenue from. It's no different than Shaw reshuffling their plans to try and bump people to a slightly higher (and more expensive plan)

As for the netflix usage, are you guys actually pulling a 1080p stream? I typically see 2-3gb per hour of usage on my router when Netflix is running. That's 150 hrs a month between 3 of us or 50hrs each. That's really not that much in the scheme of things. My roommate will go on days off and binge watch ~8hrs in one day.

[killramos]

^ ( Rage2) Exactly my experience. Torrenting is one of the few ways you can actually consistently MAX your Up and Dl speeds due to the way p2p works. netflix? Doesn't even come close to saturating bandwidth, even on 1080P streams. Downloading from itunes? maybe.

I have never gotten above my 400 GB limit either. I rarely come close. My fiance basically watches netflix 6 hours a day to ( just leaves it on on a friends repeat while shes home lol). I watch probably 10 hours a week as well.

It isn't the casual netflixers who are "causing the price increases". Maybe when you have 8 buddies all watching netflix in the same house you might be getting up on the bandwidth.

And you are completely delusional if you actually think that there is 0 incremental costs due to data usage. Maybe its minor, i don't know i'm not a network technician. But i sure as hell know its not 0.

You sound like a 60's conspiracy theorist with the " Big Media is trying to kill poor innocent Netflix"

Last time i checked Netflix was a huge multi billion dollar company ( actually bigger than Telus by market Cap :rofl: ), They don't need your advocacy.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Topic of rollover aside (which would be nice), how can anyone be upset about getting charged more when they use more than they've paid for.

Stop torrenting everything you cheap cunts. Otherwise, pay to play.

[rage2]

Originally posted by pheoxs
It is true they do this, but Telus (and all ISPs for that matter) still meter this as internet and will happily try to charge you overage fees on top.
But the caps are designed to allow watching TV through Netflix without going over and incurring overage.

Telus 15 - 150GB
Telus 20 - 250GB
Telus 50 - 400GB
Telus 100 - 500GB

edit - Shaw caps:

Shaw 5 - 60GB
Shaw 15 - 125GB
Shaw 30 - 250GB
Shaw 60 - 400GB
Shaw 120 - 750GB

Face it, this is an attack on torrenters, period.


Originally posted by pheoxs
As for the netflix usage, are you guys actually pulling a 1080p stream? I typically see 2-3gb per hour of usage on my router when Netflix is running. That's 150 hrs a month between 3 of us or 50hrs each. That's really not that much in the scheme of things. My roommate will go on days off and binge watch ~8hrs in one day.
Yes, 1080p streams, and even in your scenario you're looking at 300GB a month for 3 people. Well within the caps available.

[rx7boi]

This cap doesn't bother me.

I go over my 500GB limit from time to time, but that's only when I decide I want to torrent 3 games at 40gb each, in addition to my regular Netflix and porn streaming :rofl:

Like JRSC00LUDE said, stop bitching about being charged more than you use.

[sputnik]

I am 100% fine with enforcing caps. The only people going over are those that are heavy torrent users.

I have 4 people in our house and ALL of our TV watching is online (Netflix, Hulu, NHL GCL etc) and we have never gone over our 500 GB cap. Most of the time I barely even hit 300 GB.

I find it ironic that heavy torrent users would complain about being charged for the bandwidth they are using to download movies/TV/games for free.

[killramos]

Originally posted by sputnik

I find it ironic that heavy torrent users would complain about being charged for the bandwidth they are using to download movies/TV/games for free.


Not really ironic, they don't like paying for anything. Why would internet be any different.

[speedog]

Originally posted by killramos
ot really ironic, they don't like paying for anything. Why would internet be any different.
These people probably don't like paying for air at a gas station either even though there's costs to provide that air as well - I know the compressor I have in my garage didn't just magically appear for free and doesn't run on rainbows and I suspect the same for gas station owners as well.

Then again, maybe things have changed since I left the employ of TELUS some 7+ years ago, maybe Entwistle and his minions have figured out a way to harvest rainbows to reduce their operating costs - all I know is that there was a lot of very, very expensive internal infrastructure that I helped engineer to provide internet services to Joe public. Incredible DC power systems, significant HVAC systems, etc, etc, etc that to me, didn't appear to be all that inexpensive.

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by sputnik
I am 100% fine with enforcing caps. The only people going over are those that are heavy torrent users.

I have 4 people in our house and ALL of our TV watching is online (Netflix, Hulu, NHL GCL etc) and we have never gone over our 500 GB cap. Most of the time I barely even hit 300 GB.

I find it ironic that heavy torrent users would complain about being charged for the bandwidth they are using to download movies/TV/games for free.
throw some 4k streaming from Netflix and 2 games from Xbox live @ 50gigs each. people are only using more and more bandwidth. legally also.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by speedog

These people probably don't like paying for air at a gas station either even though there's costs to provide that air as well - I know the compressor I have in my garage didn't just magically appear for free and doesn't run on rainbows and I suspect the same for gas station owners as well.

Then again, maybe things have changed since I left the employ of TELUS some 7+ years ago, maybe Entwistle and his minions have figured out a way to harvest rainbows to reduce their operating costs - all I know is that there was a lot of very, very expensive internal infrastructure that I helped engineer to provide internet services to Joe public. Incredible DC power systems, significant HVAC systems, etc, etc, etc that to me, didn't appear to be all that inexpensive.

You act like people are getting free internet and it's boo hoo Telus. We still pay 80-90$ a month for a 50mbit connection which is quite expensive compared to the rest of the developed world. This is just a cash grab on top of that.

[speedog]

Over the past 14 months we have exceeded our 250 cap 3 times but I do see our usage increasing and it probably will be more so now that Netflix is easier to get to on the big screen through Optik TV - will be upgrading to the TELUS Internet 50 plan today (fiber optic). Usually have anywhere from 6-7 people in the house with a multitude of devices as well as daily data back-ups from our business located elsewhere in the city.

[speedog]

Originally posted by pheoxs
You act like people are getting free internet and it's boo hoo Telus. We still pay 80-90$ a month for a 50mbit connection which is quite expensive compared to the rest of the developed world. This is just a cash grab on top of that.
Boo fucking hoo, move to those other places then. We're in Canada and are stuck with what we've got - suck it up.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by blairtruck
throw some 4k streaming from Netflix and 2 games from Xbox live @ 50gigs each. people are only using more and more bandwidth. legally also. I legally bought a Travel Trailer. My Outlander won't pull it. Goddamned Mitsubishi and their fucking low towing specs. Why won't it pull my trailer!!!

If you want to use the luxury services of 50Gb Xbox live games, and 4K Netflix, then be prepared to pay for the additional bandwidth those will require.

Simply turning down the quality setting on my netflix account cut my monthly bandwidth usage in half. My daughter didn't need to watch Monster High in full SuperHD on the iPad.

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by codetrap
I legally bought a Travel Trailer. My Outlander won't pull it. Goddamned Mitsubishi and their fucking low towing specs. Why won't it pull my trailer!!!

If you want to use the luxury services of 50Gb Xbox live games, and 4K Netflix, then be prepared to pay for the additional bandwidth those will require.

Simply turning down the quality setting on my netflix account cut my monthly bandwidth usage in half. My daughter didn't need to watch Monster High in full SuperHD on the iPad.
its ok for now im with shaw and never paid for going over. yet.

[killramos]

Originally posted by pheoxs


You act like people are getting free internet and it's boo hoo Telus. We still pay 80-90$ a month for a 50mbit connection which is quite expensive compared to the rest of the developed world. This is just a cash grab on top of that.

You let me know how many of those developed countries are obligated by the government to continually expand rural internet infrastructure in a country of 10 million square km in order to target a PORTION of a 30 million person ( many less households) market.

We should consider ourselves lucky that we pay as close as we do to american rates...

:rolleyes:

[codetrap]

Originally posted by killramos
You let me know how many of those developed countries are obligated by the government to continually expand rural internet infrastructure in a country of 10 million square km in order to target a PORTION of a 30 million person ( many less households) market.

We should consider ourselves lucky that we pay as close as we do to american rates...

:rolleyes: There's no governmental obligation in Alberta to continually expand rural internet.

Edit:
Originally posted by blairtruck

its ok for now im with shaw and never paid for going over. yet. I get it. I'm not specifically attacking you. I have a pretty deep understanding of the costs to upgrading network infrastructure as that's pretty much all I'm doing these days. It's really really expensive to do, and unfortunately there's pretty limited fiber in the ground to work with. In some places, we can't even get fiber due to gov't restrictions on land use. It's a total gong show.... It's not as easy as just flipping a switch, and bandwidth usage in alberta has literally gone up exponentially in the past couple of years.

[speedog]

Originally posted by codetrap
There's no governmental obligation in Alberta to continually expand rural internet.

Edit: I get it. I'm not specifically attacking you. I have a pretty deep understanding of the costs to upgrading network infrastructure as that's pretty much all I'm doing these days. It's really really expensive to do, and unfortunately there's pretty limited fiber in the ground to work with. In some places, we can't even get fiber due to gov't restrictions on land use. It's a total gong show.... It's not as easy as just flipping a switch, and bandwidth usage in alberta has literally gone up exponentially in the past couple of years.
C'mon, there's got to be some way to use rainbows to make it all work.

[killramos]

Originally posted by codetrap
There's no governmental obligation in Alberta to continually expand rural internet.



Ok not quite obligated but they are being HEAVILY encouraged then. I highly doubt that even with the government footing the 50% of the bill in their rural internet programs that the projects pay out.

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=869539

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by rage2


The problem is that the torrenters are maxing out the network capacity. If it's not controlled, there's a huge cost in increasing network capacity to cater to these heavy users. That model isn't scalable.

You said that this was happening at night... is it really that big of a deal? Honest question. I will openly admit I do not know network utilization %'s dependent on hour of day, but I would guess that 75% of the user base is offline after 11pm. So if the network is saturated from 11pm to 6am, does it matter? Are the electrons going to stop flowing? If not, then there is no need to increase network capacity.

However, if this is an issue during the day, then I agree. But datacaps don't fix that, speed caps do.


Originally posted by rage2


You're overestimating how much data Netflix uses. I track all our usage by device in the house using PRTG so I have a good view of what actually uses the most bandwidth. In our house, it's XBOX digital purchases, eating up to 50% of our monthly capacity when a lot of new games are released.

We have 4 TV's in the house, watch 95% of our TV online between 2 adults and 2 children via iTunes movies (the biggest data consumer due to near BD quality), followed by Netflix, then Hulu and other misc services.

With no games out in January, meaning TV only usage, we incurred under 300GB usage. And that's 100% of our TV viewing over the internet, as I switched to NHL Gamecenter as a test for this year. Our worst months, Sept. and Nov. of last year, with a huge amount of new XB1 games (each game downloaded across 2 XB1's), we hit 502GB and 493GB respectively.

So you have been over your limit. And if content starts to regularily become available at 720p and 1080p, or low rez content no longer becomes available, your usage will skyrocket, right?


Originally posted by rage2


I've seen some of my friend's usage charts with their torrent downloads of absolutely everything, and they're in the TB's for 1 single person. Funny, because they probably watch less TV in total than we do.

I agree. I only download around 100gb a month now that I've caught up on the past decade of tv shows being put online that I was interested in watching. Blows my mind how some people download everything.


Originally posted by rage2

Besides, Netflix helps providers reduce the peering and network capacity costs by allowing ISPs to setup a local Netflix CDN for free. This allows ISP customers to connect within their network for Netflix without actually going over the internet.

https://openconnect.itp.netflix.com/ [/B]

That is neat! But netflix is just an example, I used netflix as an example of a streaming type service.

At the end of the day, datacaps are just another way to tier the internet and directly undermines internet neutrality. I would rather see speedcaps then datacaps I think.

Edit-
I am not necessarily saying datacaps are the devil. I just don't like them because as network capacity/speed becomes more readily available in this country, the amount of data flowing will spike and we will be left holding the bag as the ISP's will bend us over by keeping their old data limits.

[rage2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
You said that this was happening at night... is it really that big of a deal?
I never said that. I can tell you that torrent usage is throughout the day, with peaks in prime time hours. (at Shaw anyways)


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
So you have been over your limit. And if content starts to regularily become available at 720p and 1080p, or low rez content no longer becomes available, your usage will skyrocket, right?
Everything I watch is HD. I don't watch SD at all, refuse to. I'm not over my limit either. I'm grandfathered on the 250mbit plan, with a 1TB cap. I consider my family to be heavy users, and as such, I choose the appropriate data plans to accommodate our needs. Even Shaw's website explains each plan based on what kind of usage you're going to be doing to help you choose:

http://www.shaw.ca/internet/plans/


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
At the end of the day, datacaps are just another way to tier the internet and directly undermines internet neutrality. I would rather see speedcaps then datacaps I think.
Well of course you have to tier internet usage. It would be retarded for Telus/Shaw to offer 1 price for everyone, when my usage is completely different than a grandma checking her email.

What, should I start bitching that my FedEx shit doesn't arrive by 8am next day even though I only pay ground shipping?

[sputnik]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
So you have been over your limit. And if content starts to regularily become available at 720p and 1080p, or low rez content no longer becomes available, your usage will skyrocket, right?

H.265 encoding will drop bandwidth requirements as quality increases.

Netflix is already testing/using it for its 4K content.

[speedog]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
...

Edit-
I am not necessarily saying datacaps are the devil. I just don't like them because as network capacity/speed becomes more readily available in this country, the amount of data flowing will spike and we will be left holding the bag as the ISP's will bend us over by keeping their old data limits.
Please read codetrap's post just four or so posts above.

The amount of underlying infrastructure TELUS was building some 7+ years ago when I was in their network engineering area was mind boggling and I can only imagine it's way more massive now - it seems we were just was always playing catch-up back then and I don't imagine things are any better now. Hell, I remember some builds were doubled or tripled or ten-fold in capacity while they sat on our desks and this then meant going searching for monies to supplement power plants and air conditioning systems and the list goes on.

Rainbows, it all just works on rainbows, eh.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by speedog

Please read codetrap's post just four or so posts above.

The amount of underlying infrastructure TELUS was building some 7+ years ago when I was in their network engineering area was mind boggling and I can only imagine it's way more massive now - it seems we were just was always playing catch-up back then and I don't imagine things are any better now. Hell, I remember some builds were doubled or tripled or ten-fold in capacity while they sat on our desks and this then meant going searching for monies to supplement power plants and air conditioning systems and the list goes on.

Rainbows, it all just works on rainbows, eh.

Again you make it sound like they're bleeding cash for the good of the consumer. Telus has been recording larger profits year over year, this is just another way to increase those profits.

I'm not saying it's not expensive to roll out infrastructure, I'm just trying to point out that this is simply a cash grab targeted at a minority so that there won't be huge backlash.

Companies routinely evaluate strategies like this to see ways to implement maximum revenue while receiving the least resistance. First it's pay for overage fees, then they'll start scaling back datacaps like Shaw did and force more people into higher tier plans or paying overages.

[killramos]

Originally posted by pheoxs


Again you make it sound like they're bleeding cash for the good of the consumer. Telus has been recording larger profits year over year, this is just another way to increase those profits.

if Telus is SO profitable you should bet your retirement savings on them.

Actually with their current dividend it would pay for your monthly internet plan if you buy about a thousand shares. Of course that would involve about 44 Grand in Capital.

Weird that doesn't sound like a stupidly profitable deal at all... Maybe Telus has these little things called OPERATING COSTS to deal with :rolleyes:

[01RedDX]

.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by killramos


Ok not quite obligated but they are being HEAVILY encouraged then. I highly doubt that even with the government footing the 50% of the bill in their rural internet programs that the projects pay out.

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=869539 I don't see where it claims Shaw and/or Telus are involved in this project. I'm guessing it's ISPs like Xplornet, CCI and Moradnet that are getting this funding, and their infrastructure costs a hell of a lot less than Shaw/Telus.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Mibz
I don't see where it claims Shaw and/or Telus are involved in this project. I'm guessing it's ISPs like Xplornet, CCI and Moradnet that are getting this funding, and their infrastructure costs a hell of a lot less than Shaw/Telus.

I dont see any reason why Shaw or Telus would be ineligible?

[Mibz]

Originally posted by killramos
I dont see any reason why Shaw or Telus would be ineligible? Because they don't build rural broadband infrastructure for the same reasons you gave. It's not worth it. It sounds like this subsidy is to help existing rural ISPs improve their service, which makes way more sense than subsidizing Shaw or Telus building brand new stuff to compete.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Pretty happy as a Nucleus customer, none of this type of nonsense or bill surprises like I was dealing with from Shaw and Telus.
What bill surprises? Neither Telus nor Shaw has billed data overages up to today. Telus isn't starting till April.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Pretty happy as a Nucleus customer, none of this type of nonsense or bill surprises like I was dealing with from Shaw and Telus.

I have been with shaw for 2 years. The only time the amount they billed me for each month changes in that period was 2 months ago when they upped the rates for my internet.

IMO all the whining and complaining about Shaw and Telus comes from people not even reading what they are signing up for. There have been "bandwidth caps" written into shaw and telus contracts for years. If you didnt like it why did you sign with them?

[e31]

Originally posted by codetrap
There's no governmental obligation in Alberta to continually expand rural internet.

Expand Rural, Shit, I can't get anything faster than telus Internet 6 and i'm in town! Not only does it cost the same as internet 15, but the cap is less too (75 or 100gb?). How does that make sense?

I hope that Telus employee's pension fund is nice and fat, us loyal customers have been getting rammed without lube to pay for it.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Mibz
I don't see where it claims Shaw and/or Telus are involved in this project. I'm guessing it's ISPs like Xplornet, CCI and Moradnet that are getting this funding, and their infrastructure costs a hell of a lot less than Shaw/Telus. To my understanding, neither Telus nor Shaw has received any of those monies.

Incidentally, I'm not with Telus. :)

Here's a graph of one of our 10G links to show the usage pattern we're seeing on this particular link.. Right now, our lowest traffic time from an overall view is around 3am. To give you an idea where we're going is we're skipping over the 40G transport and going straight to 100G.

[Despair*]

Originally posted by codetrap
There's no governmental obligation in Alberta to continually expand rural internet.

Edit: I get it. I'm not specifically attacking you. I have a pretty deep understanding of the costs to upgrading network infrastructure as that's pretty much all I'm doing these days. It's really really expensive to do, and unfortunately there's pretty limited fiber in the ground to work with. In some places, we can't even get fiber due to gov't restrictions on land use. It's a total gong show.... It's not as easy as just flipping a switch, and bandwidth usage in alberta has literally gone up exponentially in the past couple of years.

For someone who's working on this stuff daily, is the Shaw and Telus infrastructure really far behind?

I've recently looked at their internet (Eastern Canada only) and for anyone who's looked recently their internet packages in terms of price and bandwidth limits completely blow the packages that Shaw and Telus both offer out of the water. Quite a few of their packages offer unlimited bandwidth options as well and for the most part their prices are lower or about the same as the shaw packages. I'm wondering if the Rogers infrastructure is that much more up to date that they can support those kind of packages with high speeds and no data caps.

I don't use up close to my max bandwidth so I've never had an issue with caps or worried about overage charges myself. But I found it very interesting to compare and see what there was available in the East vs. West.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Despair*


For someone who's working on this stuff daily, is the Shaw and Telus infrastructure really far behind?

I've recently looked at their internet (Eastern Canada only) and for anyone who's looked recently their internet packages in terms of price and bandwidth limits completely blow the packages that Shaw and Telus both offer out of the water. Quite a few of their packages offer unlimited bandwidth options as well and for the most part their prices are lower or about the same as the shaw packages. I'm wondering if the Rogers infrastructure is that much more up to date that they can support those kind of packages with high speeds and no data caps.

I don't use up close to my max bandwidth so I've never had an issue with caps or worried about overage charges myself. But I found it very interesting to compare and see what there was available in the East vs. West.

Eastern Canada is much more population dense than Western canada. Much better economics for infrastructure therefore lower costs for consumers.

https://travelcanada.wikispaces.com/file/view/population_map.gif/42496021/602x389/population_map.gif

[rage2]

Originally posted by Despair*
For someone who's working on this stuff daily, is the Shaw and Telus infrastructure really far behind?

I've recently looked at their internet (Eastern Canada only) and for anyone who's looked recently their internet packages in terms of price and bandwidth limits completely blow the packages that Shaw and Telus both offer out of the water. Quite a few of their packages offer unlimited bandwidth options as well and for the most part their prices are lower or about the same as the shaw packages. I'm wondering if the Rogers infrastructure is that much more up to date that they can support those kind of packages with high speeds and no data caps.

I don't use up close to my max bandwidth so I've never had an issue with caps or worried about overage charges myself. But I found it very interesting to compare and see what there was available in the East vs. West.
Rogers and Bell both throttle heavy users out east. While there is no listed cap, they'll just throttle your connection to meet the cap they dictate for your packages internally. Achieves the exact same goal.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Despair*


For someone who's working on this stuff daily, is the Shaw and Telus infrastructure really far behind?

I've recently looked at their internet (Eastern Canada only) and for anyone who's looked recently their internet packages in terms of price and bandwidth limits completely blow the packages that Shaw and Telus both offer out of the water. Quite a few of their packages offer unlimited bandwidth options as well and for the most part their prices are lower or about the same as the shaw packages. I'm wondering if the Rogers infrastructure is that much more up to date that they can support those kind of packages with high speeds and no data caps.

I don't use up close to my max bandwidth so I've never had an issue with caps or worried about overage charges myself. But I found it very interesting to compare and see what there was available in the East vs. West. I'm not with Telus or Shaw, so I can't really comment on what they're running for backbone infrastructure. I do know that right now it's super hard to get contracted field techs because Telus, Bell, Shaw, & Rogers are all saying "We have enough work to lock you up for the next year." on existing projects. I've heard rumors that some of them are trying to roll out the Cienna 10G ONS rings to upgrade their backbones, and others are going to 100G. Plus you see in the news where telus is trying to push FTTH in a lot of the larger communities like St Paul and Leduc. That requires a LOT of infrastructure behind it. When you're talking about setting up 100G Long Haul DWDM systems, you're talking big money for equipment. Then there's companies like Bell that are still running the Nortel metroethernet gear as transport.... *shrug*

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Mibz
I don't see where it claims Shaw and/or Telus are involved in this project. I'm guessing it's ISPs like Xplornet, CCI and Moradnet that are getting this funding, and their infrastructure costs a hell of a lot less than Shaw/Telus. http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/028.nsf/eng/h_00587.html

This sounds like Xplornet to me.


On August 25, 2014, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced the northern component of Connecting Canadians in Pond Inlet, Nunavut. The $50-million northern component will extend and augment satellite capacity, bringing service at a targeted 3 to 5 Mbps to an estimated 12,000 households in Nunavut and the Nunavik region of Quebec. This investment advances the Government of Canada's priority to promote social and economic development in the North, as outlined in Canada's Northern Strategy. The call for applications for the northern component also closed on January 12, 2015. More information about this investment is available in the northern component section.

aaand.. yup..
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/xplornet-plans-unprecedented-expansion-of-high-speed-internet-to-all-of-rural-canada/article19798876/

[speedog]

Originally posted by pheoxs
Again you make it sound like they're bleeding cash for the good of the consumer. Telus has been recording larger profits year over year, this is just another way to increase those profits.

I'm not saying it's not expensive to roll out infrastructure, I'm just trying to point out that this is simply a cash grab targeted at a minority so that there won't be huge backlash.

Companies routinely evaluate strategies like this to see ways to implement maximum revenue while receiving the least resistance. First it's pay for overage fees, then they'll start scaling back datacaps like Shaw did and force more people into higher tier plans or paying overages.
Not once have I implied that TELUS is bleeding cash - hell, I was employed there for quite a few years and am quite a critic of how poorly they're managed internally. But regardless of that, why is it that some people get their knickers in such a tight knot when it comes to actually having to pay for their fair share. If I compare data usage to water usage or electricity usage or natural gas usage or even buying apples at Safeway, in every case the consumers can get a volume discount. But there is no case where I can expect to get extra apples for free from Safeway regardless of whether they get huge volume discounts from their suppliers or not.

[speedog]

Originally posted by e31


Expand Rural, Shit, I can't get anything faster than telus Internet 6 and i'm in town! Not only does it cost the same as internet 15, but the cap is less too (75 or 100gb?). How does that make sense?

I hope that Telus employee's pension fund is nice and fat, us loyal customers have been getting rammed without lube to pay for it.
Really depends on which TELUS pension plan you're in.

[ZenOps]

Someone needs to put a permanent nuclear powered dish on the moon. I'm serious. Put a submarine nuke on the moon and have it as a relay station in the terabit+, 10 million watt range while visible to tracking ground stations.

It would be cheaper than the ISS, and infintely more usable for a longer period of time than the 12 years that a satellite lives.

CBC in Canada cannot even afford two transponders to get a 1080 signal on an aging satellite, they must squeeze a 720p signal to timeshift to five timezones.

We have the greatest natural satellite in the universe you could possibly get (does not even rotate) and yet - we use it for nothing.

[killramos]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Someone needs to put a permanent nuclear powered dish on the moon. I'm serious. Put a submarine nuke on the moon and have it as a relay station in the terabit+, 10 million watt range while visible to tracking ground stations.

It would be cheaper than the ISS, and infintely more usable for a longer period of time than the 12 years that a satellite lives.

CBC in Canada cannot even afford two transponders to get a 1080 signal on an aging satellite, they must squeeze a 720p signal to timeshift to five timezones.

You do know that even the longest running nuclear subs need refueling every 30 years...

Let me know how you think the economics of blasting 20 tons (for even the smallest theoretical naval nuclear power unit) to the moon will work out.

[rage2]

Originally posted by ZenOps
Someone needs to put a permanent nuclear powered dish on the moon. I'm serious. Put a submarine nuke on the moon and have it as a relay station in the terabit+, 10 million watt range while visible to tracking ground stations.
Xbox Live would lag to shit.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by blairtruck

throw some 4k streaming from Netflix and 2 games from Xbox live @ 50gigs each. people are only using more and more bandwidth. legally also.

Could you clarify what you're getting at?

Are you saying that users should be entitled to more bandwidth because of the increased consumption in hi-def media?

[Supa Dexta]

I love when people go on about how big canada is and needs entire coverage. You all realize there is but a tiny percentage of this country even used, let alone lived in right?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[thetransporter]

how much useful torrents do people actually download? 500gb a month is a lot

Bell just advertised LTE is 115 mbps - whats the point of that if we would hit our limit using a speedtest?

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by rage2

Xbox Live would lag to shit.

Yes it would, 8 seconds or so.

But you could put 8K HDTV uncompressed bandwidth streams on it and free the rest of the terrestrial fibre and copper on the planet so that it is not burdened with TV streams, and can primarily service fast ping applications.

Moon base ZenOps, vote Yes.

[speedog]

TELUS 50 gig optical being installed tomorrow afternoon, rep give us the 50 gig over our current 25 for only $5 a month more for the first 6 months which will only cost me $3 a month more. Am okay with that.

[codetrap]

speedog, I think you mean Mb. Not gig lol..

[spikerS]

I just checked my TELUS usage.

devices on WiFi: couple tablets, 3 laptops, couple gaming systems, some other random devices, and I work from home.

my usage? 140/250GB, and I still have 3 days on my current cycle.

[speedog]

Originally posted by codetrap
speedog, I think you mean Mb. Not gig lol..
Yupp. Old, mess things up. 50 gig would be amazing but 50 meg is still cool.

[speedog]

http://www.speedtest.net/result/4171539836.png
Was only expecting new modem for the optical feed but instead got new modem, the optical interface device, a wifi hotspot device and both Optik TV boxes replaced (new ones can do the 5 HD channel thing). Both new devices do both 2.4 and 5.0 Ghz wifi as well.

[rage2]

Did the new gear fix your iPhone 5C problems?

[speedog]

We replaced the 5C another time and all has been good.

[speedog]

Port bridging is available on the new TELUS box - Actiontec V1200H. Have heard lots of people want this ability - what does it provide?

Something called Samba configuration as well - whatever that is.

Lucent optical box has 4 LAN outputs of which one goes to the WAN side of the V1200H which also offers up 3 LAN ports. The Wifi hotspot devices also offers up an extra LAN port as well - which means with our 24 port switch we now have a glut of unused ports available in our home.

[eblend]

Originally posted by speedog
Port bridging is available on the new TELUS box - Actiontec V1200H. Have heard lots of people want this ability - what does it provide?

Something called Samba configuration as well - whatever that is.

Lucent optical box has 4 LAN outputs of which one goes to the WAN side of the V1200H which also offers up 3 LAN ports. The Wifi hotspot devices also offers up an extra LAN port as well - which means with our 24 port switch we now have a glut of unused ports available in our home.

Port bridging just allows you to make the router a modem, this making all those ports on the router switch ports with external IPs, vs being a NAT device with an internal IPs. This is often used if you want to use your own router, though there are other ways around that.

The Lucent modem only has one port enabled, so can't use the others. If you were to use those other ports, you would also get an external IP from Telus, but they are disabled unfortunately.

Forgot to mention, SAMBA is your file share, I presume the modem has a USB port so if you connected a USB hard drive to the modem you can create a network accessible share so anyone in your home can access the hard drives contents

[firebane]

SAMBA is file sharing protocol that is derived from *nix variants. Its slow as shit.

[shakalaka]

I didn't read the whole thread but how can I check how much I am using? I am going to log into my account and see what I can find. I don't even know what my plan is to begin with.

EDIT: So I checked online and it shows 0GB usage for the past several months. Is it because they weren't monitoring it then or is there something wrong? Also, does watching Optik Tv, recording shows etc use data as well? Doesn't the TV work on data as well?

[speedog]

Originally posted by shakalaka
I didn't read the whole thread but how can I check how much I am using? I am going to log into my account and see what I can find. I don't even know what my plan is to begin with.

EDIT: So I checked online and it shows 0GB usage for the past several months. Is it because they weren't monitoring it then or is there something wrong? Also, does watching Optik Tv, recording shows etc use data as well? Doesn't the TV work on data as well? Weird - a call to TELUS might be in order and Optik TV usage does not affect your data amounts with the exception of Netflix on channel 422 and a few oddballs like that. Our household of 6 is at 182G of our past plan's 250G limit with a week to go - 400G cap on the new 50Meg plan we just got installed today.

[eblend]

Originally posted by shakalaka
I didn't read the whole thread but how can I check how much I am using? I am going to log into my account and see what I can find. I don't even know what my plan is to begin with.

EDIT: So I checked online and it shows 0GB usage for the past several months. Is it because they weren't monitoring it then or is there something wrong? Also, does watching Optik Tv, recording shows etc use data as well? Doesn't the TV work on data as well?

TV is data, but it's from Telus's own network vs. from the internet, so it doesn't count towards any limits.

Think of it as your home network where you can transfer all your want, and then the internet, which is Telus...same situation for Telus, their own network is unlimited, but as soon as they have to route you to their internet backbone, they count the data.

[speedog]

Wicked fast wifi as well - over 50Mbps download speed on 5Ghz wifi capable devices (my son's S5) and 32Mbps on the 2.4Ghz wifi to my S3.

5 HD channels as well is a bonus as we often would have 3 HD streams being recorded on certain evenings. Speeds throughput the evening yesterday were consistently above 50Mbps for downloads and above 13 Mbps for uploads. Ping times on hard wired devices were at 2ms..

[speedog]

So a quick update, yes our newly installed TELUS Internet 50 optical is quite fast (always above rated DL & UL maximums when I test).

But, and this is a big but, there's been issues - install was done the afternoon of Wednesday, February 28th, this will be a TLDR version...
[list=1]
First off with the install, it was a contracted TELUS person who came to the door with limited ability to speak or even understand the English that I've been speaking for well over 5 decades - that complicated things. I'm not a man that has any prejudices but at least send someone into my home that can at least have a glimmer of a hope of communicating with me.
TELUS contractor started the install in my home by trying to drill about a half inch wide hole through a basement window casing with a spade type of drill bit. They gave up drilling from the outside and then proceeded to try and drill a hole from the inside - only managed to get an eighth of an inch before giving up - it appeared their drill bit was to dull to get through the wood. The tech eventually snaked the fibre (under 3mm across) through an existing hole which makes me wonder why the etch had to drill such a huge hole. After the tech left, I went outside and discovered they had drilled about 5-6 inches into the casing from the outside before giving up - not sure what their problem was but now I have to fill that hole and am even more confused as to why they'd have to drill such a huge whole for such a small fiber.
Also discovered after the tech left, that they didn't clean up any of the mess they made outside of my house by the basement window - quite unprofessional.
Friday morning we discovered he had damaged the end of the HDMI cable that went into our television. Why he was back there was beyond me as all he had to do as a part of the install was replace our existing PVR which meant disconnecting the HDMI cable there in plugging it into the new PVR box. This meant a phone call from myself to TELUS and getting frustrated with their still useless voice prompt system. Never the less got through to a TELUS manager after about 40 minutes who said TELUS would make everything right - at that point I wasn't sure if it was the HDMI cable or the actual HDMI port on our 60" LED that had been damaged, turns out it was the HDMI cable that had been damaged. Now it needs to be noted that I had left a message with the TELUS tech early Friday because he didn't leave the new Slimline remotes with us and it just so figures that someone in the home spilled water all over our existing one rendering it useless - message was to attempt to get the new slimline remotes as the tech wouldn't have any need for them. After finding out about the HDMI damage and the mess the guy had left on the side of our home and his general incompetence, I informed the TELUS manager that I did not wish to see this tech in my home ever again. TELUS manager said no problem, gave us a $50 credit on our bill to allow me to just go out and purchase a new HDMI cable and would send us two replacement slimline remotes the following week.
Then I get a call from the TELUS tech just as I am about to get home late Friday afternoon after purchasing a new HDMI cable. He said he was going to swing by the house with two slimline remotes and I informed him that he didn't have to because they were already being sent to us. He mumbled something that couldn't be understood (not profane as best as I could tell) and hung up. I get home to find he had been and gone and left two slimline remotes as well as two HDMI cables - apparently the message had gotten to him about some problems. Now it needs to be noted that in my conversation with him on Friday afternoon, he accused my 20 year old son of damaging the HDMI cable even though my son never touched anything - I happened top be downstairs at the time the TELUS tech was screwing around in behind our television.
Fast forward to Saturday evening and we're experiencing intermittent internet outages, 6-7 per hour each lasting about 15 or so seconds. I can even see them being logged in the Actiontec's V1200H's logs - reset/rebooted both the AlcatelLucent ONT and Actiontec devices that TELUS installed to no effect. Please note it's not a AC power issue as both of these devices are plugged into the same UPS that our main computer is plugged into and we know there's no power issues. So on to an on-line chat with a TELUS agent this morning because the internet outages were still ongoing - they had me do a factory reset which fixed nothing and now we have a different tech (my request) coming out Wednesday afternoon. Of note, TELUS sees something amiss between the Actiontec V1200H and their equipment in the back alley.
[/list=1]
So long story short, I am happy with the increased speeds but am not impressed with the contracted person TELUS sent in to do the work - certainly there will not be a glowing review done of the work performed and a follow-up email will be going to the TELUS manager I spoke with. Embarrassing for TELUS to have a contractor representing them that did such poor work and even worse, accusing my son of doing something that the TELUS tech themselves did - that is simply unacceptable. Also, 9 outages in the past hour - PITA..

BTW...
http://www.speedtest.net/result/4181189976.png

[pheoxs]

@speedog

Did they install the wifi plus? My tech was friendly and competent but I found after that with the 50mbit plan you get a free wifi range booster and I had to call back in to get them to install it.

They swapped one of my phone lines in the house over to ethernet and then put a booster in the upstairs corner of the house (main one is in the opposite basement corner) so now I've got way better wifi range outside

[revelations]

Originally posted by speedog
So a quick update, yes our newly installed ........- PITA..

BTW...
http://www.speedtest.net/result/4181189976.png

That sounds very typical for BOTH Shaw and Telus - it all depends on the luck of the draw, and the available tech.

When you hire contractors and pay through piece work, instead of hourly, this is the end result. Only thing that matters to the board of directors is share price so go ahead and buy Telus' or Shaw stock while youre at it, after becoming a subscriber.

[speedog]

Originally posted by pheoxs
@speedog

Did they install the wifi plus? My tech was friendly and competent but I found after that with the 50mbit plan you get a free wifi range booster and I had to call back in to get them to install it.

They swapped one of my phone lines in the house over to ethernet and then put a booster in the upstairs corner of the house (main one is in the opposite basement corner) so now I've got way better wifi range outside

Yeah, they also installed WiFi+ and I then moved my existing router/WiFi hotspot downstairs to the opposite end of the basement from where the V1200H is - now have all parts of our home covered with 3 WiFi devices.

[eblend]

Interesting about this Wifi+ thing, I am on 50 but been a telus customer for about 5 years now and moved on from DSL at 15mbps, then to 25mbps dsl, then to 25mbps fiber, and finally to 50mbps fiber. When I was on DSL in the beginning also had problems, the twisted pair of wires into my home seemed to be a little damaged and had lots of noise on them once in a while, causing my TV to freeze and internet to stop. After a few visits by Telus they tracked down the problem and switched to another pair (I guess they use like 8 cable wires + fiber in one, so they switched me to a different set and it was perfectly fine while on DSL ever since for about 3 years, before switching to Fiber, and fiber been perfectly stable for me since as well, same deal at my parents place who are also on fiber now. The reason it took a few visits is because they would replace the pots splitter first thinking it was a problem, but the line noise was so intermittent it was hard to track down. Got lucky with the second tech as he happened to have his phone tester connected exactly when the issue occurred and there was a lot of static on the line.

As for the tech, mine were always really good and very professional, made things very tidy with all the wires and stuff, never had an issue with one. Their support is also pretty good. I always dreaded calling Telus in the past (was a customer for a few years in the 90s), but since getting Optik always been satisfied for the most part.

My last telus call was a few weeks ago, my PVR died, and they had someone over the following day (sunday) with a new replacement PVR, guy came in, replaced the PVR, did a quick diag test on the PVR and that was it. I would say surprisingly Telus support has been some of the best in the lat 5 years I have been with them.

Telus guy said that the fiber (at least in my area) is direct buried, so if it got damaged when the hole was back filled you are SOL for Fiber install, not sure if thats still the case in newer communities or not.

Speedog, I really hope your issue is resolved, because unlike DSL, fiber is light, it's either on or off, and if the cable is damaged, that would not be good for you.

[speedog]

Well, issue didn't get resolved yesterday afternoon as TELUS didn't show. Called them and the word is my ticket got stuck in their system and didn't get dispatched and now I'm set up for a technician visit on Sunday afternoon. The good thing, I'll be paying nothing for the increase from 25 to 50Mbps for a year after the most recent credit they put on my account for missing their appointment yesterday.

[speedog]

So it's been 2 months since TELUS announced they would start charging their customers for going over their plan's monthly data allowance - has anyone been affected yet?

We've been barely over half of our 400Gb limit for the past 2 months - how are others doing?

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by speedog
So it's been 2 months since TELUS announced they would start charging their customers for going over their plan's monthly data allowance - has anyone been affected yet?

We've been barely over half of our 400Gb limit for the past 2 months - how are others doing?

I was over in Jan, and in the 300-350 range for Feb-May but I found out my router was being stupid and racking up huge bandwidth for local traffic. This month will be around 200 if that.

[djdragan]

I was over last month (274GB vs 250GB limit) but didn't see any additional charges.

I spoke to a rep a month ago, and we started talking about the overage charges. She mentioned that is was scheduled to start in AB in July. Not sure if she meant charges in July for June usage or that charges start based on July usage.

[eblend]

This is me. Haven't changed my usage behaviour at all, still wife 24/7 on Netflix/youtube, I started watching more youtube, and still download whatever I need.

http://www.eblend.ca/photos/i-PLsFkdR/0/XL/i-PLsFkdR-XL.jpg

[e31]

http://s3.postimg.org/7h9rgg7s1/tel.png