Prentise Blames Albertans

[Thales of Miletus]

While speaking with CBC radio on Wednesday, and after saying that the PC government will not raise corporate taxes. Prentice said all Albertans are responsible for getting the province into a financial mess and everyone has to help clean it up.

“In terms of who is responsible we all need only look in the mirror,” said Prentice.

“Collectively, we got into this as Albertans and collectively we’re going to get out of it, and everybody is going to have to shoulder some share of the responsibility.”

The province is considering a range of options to deal with the shortfall, including altering the personal income tax system, re-introducing health premiums, hiking the gasoline pump levy, and increasing taxes on liquor and cigarettes.


So there you go Alberta, it is all your fault that the government has mismanaged the economy and it's spending. And you are going to pay for it. Not corporation, you.

[Nitro5]

well the people do keep electing PC so he does have a point

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Nitro5
well the people do keep electing PC so he does have a point

I didn't think there was anyway to blame Albertans for what has happened, but you made an excellent point.


All the PC's have to do, to stay in power, is suggest that any alternative would bring about the end of days.

[sputnik]

Just watch the uproar when the suggestion to raise income or sales taxes are raised.

Then he will have proven his point.

[16hypen3sp]

Haha… I was waiting for this thread to show up. Maybe it was a poor choice of words.

Here's what I think about their "options":

Increasing personal income tax… No, No, and No. The people shouldn't have to bail the government out of years of financial mismanagement. Also, corporations shouldn't have to either.

Re-introducing health premiums… Again, everyone would pay, albeit its the lesser of two evils compared with increasing personal income tax.

Hiking the gas levy… This is one option that scares me. I understand fuel is cheap right now, but would this levy be reduced to normal after oil is back at $100/barrel?

Hiking the sin tax (again)… On the fence with it as I'm not really a drinker and don't smoke.


Moral of the story is… government fucked up in the good times, don't blame the people in the bad times.

[killramos]

#IFIWRITEITINBOLDITMAKESITTRUE

Of course its Albertans who are responsible. We want to have our cake and eat it to and have proceeded that way for decades.

You are the first one to advocate for increasing oil royalties and spending it on public services, well in that case we would be even more reliant on oil prices than we already are.

Sure the PC's are idiots. But we created them by telling them what we want, and letting them get away with their shit for so long. Now we are bitching that they listened and gave us what we wanted and didn't hold them accountable.

[Cos]

.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by killramos
Of course its Albertans who are responsible. We want to have our cake and eat it to and have proceeded that way for decades.

Bingo!

I lived in Alberta long enough to watch the spending frenzy from the provincial government. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the multi-million dollar interchanges on Deerfoot instead of stopping at traffic lights and the C-Train is a great way to get people around, but at the end of the day all of it was paid with oil royalties or taxes collected from businesses or people working in or for the oil and gas industry.

Albertans LOVE all that the benefits afforded to them by the wealth of O&G in their backyards, but seemed to be blind to the fact that it might change with little notice.

If this continues for more than a year Albertans will just end up living like everyone else in the country. Paying higher taxes, getting less services and watching roads crumble before they are fixed.

This would have happened regardless of the party stripe of the Premier, it happened because Alberta elected the party that was willing to give them what they wanted.

[killramos]

Yup the only difference between us and the rest of the country is we have managed to pull it off for longer without seeing pain due largely to how much we gain by oil royalties :dunno:

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by sputnik
I lived in Alberta long enough to watch the spending frenzy from the provincial government. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the multi-million dollar interchanges on Deerfoot instead of stopping at traffic lights and the C-Train is a great way to get people around, but at the end of the day all of it was paid with oil royalties or taxes collected from businesses or people working in or for the oil and gas industry.

Edmonton/Calgary got upgrade money… everything else went to shit. And Iveson/Nenshi always want more.

Too many infrastructure projects in my neck of the woods got cancelled for me to see a "spending frenzy" though, yes, I do agree there was one in the major cities.

[Nitro5]

What would be fare is that anyone that voted PC last election gets a tax increase.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Nitro5
What would be fare is that anyone that voted PC last election gets a tax increase.

yea and anyone who voted Liberal or NDP would get an even bigger one based on their platforms :rolleyes:

I guess the way to win would have been to vote wildrose :rofl:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
Haha… I was waiting for this thread to show up. Maybe it was a poor choice of words.

Here's what I think about their "options":

Increasing personal income tax… No, No, and No. The people shouldn't have to bail the government out of years of financial mismanagement. Also, corporations shouldn't have to either.

Re-introducing health premiums… Again, everyone would pay, albeit its the lesser of two evils compared with increasing personal income tax.

Hiking the gas levy… This is one option that scares me. I understand fuel is cheap right now, but would this levy be reduced to normal after oil is back at $100/barrel?

Hiking the sin tax (again)… On the fence with it as I'm not really a drinker and don't smoke.


Moral of the story is… government fucked up in the good times, don't blame the people in the bad times.

Everybody likes a fun infographic!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e98/hitempguy/Alberta%20PC%20bs_zps3prwzlpv.jpg

Basically, in short, corporate taxes need to go up. They are not paying their "fair share" for use of said infrastructure that they are driving costs through the roof of.

[MGCM]

i say fuck Alberta and lets bail, all of us.......we all gotoBC and the ppl who came west can go back east Ontario:devil:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by killramos
#IFIWRITEITINBOLDITMAKESITTRUE

Of course its Albertans who are responsible. We want to have our cake and eat it to and have proceeded that way for decades.



You should speak for yourself. I have been saying that the PC's are completely useless ever since Lougheed retired.

I also bitched about the government spending on roads when times were booming. I thought that was a completely stupid move and road construction should have be done when there was a downturn.

In any economics book, it will say, governments build roads during recessions.

[schocker]

Of course the royalty rates should be dependent on pricing. Imagine $10 royalty rates on a $50 bbl of oil, how many more jobs would be cut! :dunno:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by schocker
Of course the royalty rates should be dependent on pricing. Imagine $10 royalty rates on a $50 bbl of oil, how many more jobs would be cut! :dunno:

Yeah, but the percentage shouldn't change. If it's 9% at $120/bbl, it should still be 9% at $55/bbl.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Basically, in short, corporate taxes need to go up. They are not paying their "fair share" for use of said infrastructure that they are driving costs through the roof of.

And how much do you think they should go up? 2%? 3%?

The infrastructure would still deteriorate regardless if they used it or not. Also, some companies have built their own roads to their own sites.

If it was the correct thing to do, Prentice wouldn't have ruled it out.

[schocker]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Yeah, but the percentage shouldn't change. If it's 9% at $120/bbl, it should still be 9% at $55/bbl.
I was just basing it on the wording which I find to be dumb

The real question Albertans should be asking is, why did the government build a royalty system that gives oil companies a break when prices are low, and makes regular people pay for it?

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp


If it was the correct thing to do, Prentice wouldn't have ruled it out.

Ha ha ha ha.

Payola is a thing that people have to start understanding.

It is good that you look at politicians as a moral bunch. But you have to remember that most of them are tied to corporations and are lawyers.

The last health minister gave a contract for blood testing to an Australian firm. He retired a week later and was suddenly wealthy.

People get the government they deserve, and evidently Albertans deserve a very corrupt government.

[Kloubek]

I appreciate I don't have all the facts or necessarily know the effect it would have besides potentially bringing in more money. With that said, I think ALL those suggestions in the diagram should be implemented.

Corporate tax could go up 1%, and still be at least tied for the lowest in the country. Ie: If a company is to do business in Canada, this will change nothing except bringing in half a billion. So that's an easy one. Anything over the 1% I think you might start seeing loss of business, which clearly nobody wants.

When times are good, there is plenty of money and salaries to go around in Alberta. I believe that taxing the most wealthy families extra is a fantastic idea. Besides in desolate areas (to which Alberta has our own), the pay in Alberta is really quite good so I can't see anyone taking off as a result. The flat income tax rate that currently exists is an archaic model. Actually, BC's model is much better whereby people making lower wages are taxed less than Alberta, with mid-range about the same, and then you start paying more after you make moderate money.

I'd also support a small gas tax. We have the lowest prices in the country for fuel. And even though I smoke and prices for tobacco are already high, it wouldn't hurt to raise that up a little too... along with alcohol - which is also relatively cheap. Plus people consuming less of those has other side benefits in themselves. Everything at the end of that diagram is pretty much peanuts for revenue though.

Overall, that's some 2.4 billion right there, and Alberta still remains one of the least expensive provinces to live and do business. Still not enough to offset the possible 6b deficit, mind you.

Instead of placing blame, it should just be understood that Alberta's economy is driven by oil, and oil is a commodity that fluctuates with the market. There will be upturns and downturns... and it's during the good times that Alberta must replenish the Heritage fund so drastic actions don't have to be taken in order to survive the downtimes. And for the mismanagement of funds, even Prentice can't deny government responsibility.

[Darell_n]

Don't worry, guys. Equilization payments from Quebec will keep food on our tables.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Darell_n
Don't worry, guys. Equilization payments from Quebec will keep food on our tables.

The people of Quebec demand and surprise surprise they get.

The people of Alberta are terrified that if they ask for more pudding, that every business will leave Alberta, and as a result Albertans demand nothing and get nothing.

imo People have to demand for themselves. Todays governments represent corporations, because the corporation give the politicians perks.

Corporations demand and they get. Albertans have to be okay with saying "wtf"?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Someone get me up to speed, is this genius running for office now? Or is he just some e-blowhard with "all the answers" who's too lazy to try and effect change in the real world?

Does do, talkers talk, which is he? :confused:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Someone get me up to speed, is this genius running for office now? Or is he just some e-blowhard with "all the answers" who's too lazy to try and effect change in the real world?

Does do, talkers talk, which is he? :confused:

Someone bring me up to speed. Does this bloviating blowhard, often make these ostentatious displays?
They seem be constructed to make, what is obviously a dimwit, look as if he is educated or knowledgable?

If so, does this philistine understand that he looks like an uncultured, self-adulating narcissist?

I would attempt to analyze the dullard, but I lack interest in the field of scatology.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Darell_n
Don't worry, guys. Equilization payments from Quebec will keep food on our tables.

Funniest thing I read all week .... lol omg

[Mixalot27]

Originally posted by Darell_n
Don't worry, guys. Equilization payments from Quebec will keep food on our tables.

They will pay us in poutine and montreal smoked meat. :thumbsup:

[msommers]

And send us their French women :D

[16hypen3sp]

The most the province can do about the royalty debacle and corporate taxes is a slight increase to make them on par with the other nearby provinces... Not enough to cover the coming deficit.

Too dependant on oil revenue. What else other than beef is Alberta known for? Small amount of tourism? What else can they diversify the economy with?

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
The most the province can do about the royalty debacle and corporate taxes is a slight increase to make them on par with the other nearby provinces... Not enough to cover the coming deficit.

Too dependant on oil revenue. What else other than beef is Alberta known for? Small amount of tourism? What else can they diversify the economy with?

Natural Gas, Wheat, Coal, Edmonton is supposed to become the distribution hub for North America.

The mistake the Alberta government made was not having a plan for steady growth. Train Albertans for job, don't import people, build infrastructure in slow periods, save money during the boom.

Alberta wasted million, outbidding cities, for contractors.

Right now Alberta could be building the infrastructure needed for the retiring baby boomers. Who cares if Alberta goes in debt. It isn't like oil will stay at $50 a barrel.

Lastly vote out the PC. Even if it is only for four years. The closets need to be cleaned. And voting in the Wildrose is not voting out the PC.

Vote SC, Liberal, NDP, Communist, Green, anything but the conservatives.

[AndyL]

*cough*
http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/11050193_877442592312104_7198965995834540643_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

[killramos]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Someone get me up to speed,

From what I can tell Thales thinks if Albertans whine enough like Qubeecers we will get equalization payments. I think he has it in his head that somehow every province in the country can simultaneously receive equalization :rofl:

Oh and if the PC's are voted out everyone will have a job and the rich will give to the poor and the flowers will bloom and the babies will sing and we will all live happily every after.

Basically he sounds like he has just as much substance as a provincial Justin Trudeau. "Vote out the other guys and everything will be better, but i cant tell you how"

:nut:

[icky2unk]

Originally posted by killramos


From what I can tell Thales thinks if Albertans whine enough like Qubeecers we will get equalization payments. I think he has it in his head that somehow every province in the country can simultaneously receive equalization :rofl:

Oh and if the PC's are voted out everyone will have a job and the rich will give to the poor and the flowers will bloom and the babies will sing and we will all live happily every after.

Basically he sounds like he has just as much substance as a provincial Justin Trudeau. "Vote out the other guys and everything will be better, but i cant tell you how"

:nut:

I dunno I think he sounds like a promising politician...

spew a bunch of bs and pretend you are smart

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by icky2unk
spew a bunch of bs and pretend you are smart

Don't forget never actually answer your critics or back up your position, just hurl veiled passive aggressive insults in an attempt to deflect attention away from you. :eek:

[r3ccOs]

Thales of Miletus for president

[g-m]

Originally posted by killramos


From what I can tell Thales thinks if Albertans whine enough like Qubeecers we will get equalization payments. I think he has it in his head that somehow every province in the country can simultaneously receive equalization :rofl:

Oh and if the PC's are voted out everyone will have a job and the rich will give to the poor and the flowers will bloom and the babies will sing and we will all live happily every after.

Basically he sounds like he has just as much substance as a provincial Justin Trudeau. "Vote out the other guys and everything will be better, but i cant tell you how"

:nut: nailed it. You wouldn't expect him to understand economics though. Nothing to do with lifting pipe assemblies

[masoncgy]

Prentice isn't wrong though, despite how 'awful' those words might sound to the average Joe.

So many things are that much cheaper in Alberta than elsewhere and when the times are good, the government rolls in the dough and nothing needs to change.

Once the boom goes bust though, it's a whole different story, but again, no one wants anything to change.

Sales tax? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

The government needs a steady & reliable income stream... sales tax is the way to go... it doesn't need to be huge... but there has to be another way other than just relying on big energy revenues to fund everything.

[01RedDX]

.

[msommers]

It's very true. But many people have gone through the boom and bust before and it doesn't seem like anything changes, why is that? The latest generation is often criticized for spending like the boom never ends yet the previous generations don't demand change knowing full well, generally through first hand experience, what to expect during the bust portion of that cycle.

Have we spent so much money accommodating the population increase during the boom that we forgot about the bust? Shouldn't those with experience, political or civil, known better?

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
The most the province can do about the royalty debacle and corporate taxes is a slight increase to make them on par with the other nearby provinces... Not enough to cover the coming deficit.


If corporate taxes were on par with the next lowest in the country, it would be $6 billion dollars of extra revenue... huh. That would completely cover the "worst case scenario" deficit that hasn't even actually happened yet that Prentice is bitching about.

[LOLzilla]

We are going to get fucked hard on this upcoming budget. Hes right, look in the mirror as to whom is to blame. We voted for these assholes.

[M.alex]

Originally posted by masoncgy
Prentice isn't wrong though, despite how 'awful' those words might sound to the average Joe.

So many things are that much cheaper in Alberta than elsewhere and when the times are good, the government rolls in the dough and nothing needs to change.

Once the boom goes bust though, it's a whole different story, but again, no one wants anything to change.

Sales tax? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

The government needs a steady & reliable income stream... sales tax is the way to go... it doesn't need to be huge... but there has to be another way other than just relying on big energy revenues to fund everything.

in favor of a sales tax ... off with YOUR head :whipped:

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


All the PC's have to do, to stay in power, is suggest that any alternative would bring about the end of days.

Jaysus!

[speedog]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
We are going to get fucked hard on this upcoming budget. Hes right, look in the mirror as to whom is to blame. We voted for these assholes.
Most people did but one needs to ask one's self if the alternatives would've been any better.

[01RedDX]

.

[LOLzilla]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


The alternatives never had a chance because they were proposing things like PST, higher corporate taxes and royalty rates. :rofl:

:rofl:

[ZenOps]

I suggest we borrow $100 Billion at negative 1% interest rate.

Vote crazy in!

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by speedog

Most people did but one needs to ask one's self if the alternatives would've been any better.

You will never know if you don't give them a chance. At least vote for a opposition, put a scare into the PC's, and make them think they have to serve the public. Right now the public seems like a bunch of suckers.

If the Liberals don't work out you vote the PC's back in, and maybe they will do a good job the next time.

In the four years a new government is in, they can discover all of the skeletons the PCs have in the closet.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by killramos


From what I can tell Thales thinks if Albertans whine enough like Qubeecers we will get equalization payments. I think he has it in his head that somehow every province in the country can simultaneously receive equalization :rofl:


Yup, that's right. You go ahead and tell me what you think I am saying. It is an technique used by dishonest people. You can bend the truth with the power of interpretation.

I am saying that Albertans should demand an effective and efficient government.

You seem to be interested in telling everyone what a success you are and how everyone else sucks. Am I interpreting that right?


Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Don't forget never actually answer your critics or back up your position, just hurl veiled passive aggressive insults in an attempt to deflect attention away from you. :eek:

Hey Scot, Did you push that guy in the river then save him?

p.s. You are a hypocrite.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Kettles of Miletus


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l147/JRSC00LUDE/pot-meet-kettle_zpsl0ttujvu.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/JRSC00LUDE/media/pot-meet-kettle_zpsl0ttujvu.jpg.html)

[killramos]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l147/JRSC00LUDE/pot-meet-kettle_zpsl0ttujvu.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/JRSC00LUDE/media/pot-meet-kettle_zpsl0ttujvu.jpg.html)

I think hes more of the pot in this situation :rofl:

Pottles of Miletus maybe?

[JRSC00LUDE]

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt....

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt....

You two trolls done patting yourselves on the back yet?

Maybe you can form a human chain and go jump off a bridge.