Man alert: BIG SCREENS!

[Khyron]

So it's time to look at a big screen. I've been looking at some of the Toshiba cinema screens but I make the mistake of seeing a Sony Grand WEGA side by side to a rear projection. :drool:

However, after SEARCHING, I see in some older threads that bulbs burn out with projectors (Not rear projection).

300 bucks for a bulb is better than 1200 for a projection gun (rear proj have 3 guns which do die - but how often?). Do bulbs really burn out yearly?

Basically if you had around 5Gs for a big screen, would you get a WEGA or something else? And why?

Khyron

[prosh]

Samsung 50" DLP projection TV. Uses latest technology and only one single bulb that you can replace. Match it up with a HDTV digital reciever and you've got TV the way its supposed to be.

[Phuqu]

I have the 42" Sony Grand Wega KF-42WE610. It is really sharp with HD and DVD's. Best picture for $ when I went looking. Slim design and lightweight.

[roopi]

The new Samsungs are definately worth checking out. :thumbsup:

[sputnik]

I like the Samsung DLP better than the Sony Grand WEGA.

Toshiba and Panasonic will be releasing DLP TVs later this year.

[Khyron]

So the grand Wega is a digital light processing TV (projection but with a bulb instead of guns).

I see a 50 inch Samsung DLP for 5500, and an RCA DLP for 5000, so they are the same tech as the sony I looked at.

Ok - in general, I found the rear projection has washed out colors in different parts of the screen. Guns expensive.

DLP has better colors and clarity but can't do true black.

Plasma has a really short lifespan - I don't want to buy one and find it's dead after 6 years.

Is DLP a good technology to jump on? I want to buy soon, so it has to be as things stand now more or less.

Thanks!

Khyron

[ZorroAMG]

What about the sony LCD tv's in 42, and 50 etc...?

[prosh]

Sony Grand Wega is what sony calls LCD Projection, as for pure Sony LCD tv's in the 37"+ range you're looking around 9-15 grand

[ApexDrift]

dont go plasma... my buddy has one and one o f the pixils went out apparently if you want that fixed you have to replace the whole thing...:bullshit:

i recomend to cheak the warranty on the individual units, and the store warranty

[Khyron]

Yah plasma and LCD are pretty much dead end technologies. The LCD projection (DLP) TVs have close to plasma qualities (the bulb contains or creates plasma) and is actually cheaper to make than a current 3 gun projector.

Apparently you also don't have to worry about burned out/in pixels because its still a projection from the bulb onto the LCD screen rather than altering the LCD screen itself.

The more I read about this, the more DLP seems to be a sure bet. The current problem is there is a beta/vhs standards war going on - once that gets settled the sets will be cheaper than CRTs.

Khyron

[mo_virgin]

Whatever you're getting ... get four of them and set them up in a row... in front of your bar. SOrta like Joey's at chinook. Then watch all four sports nets... or CSI, Las Vegas, Family Guy, and freshprince all at the same time! while shooting ameretto!!!

[962 kid]

DLP is overrated, it looked good at visions when we took it home the colors didnt blend at all.... on lord of the rings the dudes beards are green!! plus its uber hard to use and after 10 days, the remote was already wearing out. We ended up getting a theatre-stylr projector for a fraction of a price, it looks wayyyy better and its 82 inches big!!

[izzoblitzo]

Oh man, Im moving into my new house, and I need a new tv, but Im torn, because in a way, I want to by the flat panel tv's.. and in a way, I wanna wait for those rollup tv's.. :D

it'll be crazy expensive, no doubt, but its sweet.. :eek:

[Khyron]

Originally posted by 962 kid
DLP is overrated, it looked good at visions when we took it home the colors didnt blend at all.... on lord of the rings the dudes beards are green!! plus its uber hard to use and after 10 days, the remote was already wearing out. We ended up getting a theatre-stylr projector for a fraction of a price, it looks wayyyy better and its 82 inches big!!

Which DLP did you buy? There are tons of color tweaking commands with hundreds of fine-tweaks that are sort of hidden ( people would wreck their picture and not know how to get it back).

Biggest I can go is 60 inch, but again the cost of rear projection is attractive. Replacing a gun is not - but how often is it done.

Khyron

[962 kid]

Originally posted by Khyron


Which DLP did you buy? There are tons of color tweaking commands with hundreds of fine-tweaks that are sort of hidden ( people would wreck their picture and not know how to get it back).

Biggest I can go is 60 inch, but again the cost of rear projection is attractive. Replacing a gun is not - but how often is it done.

Khyron

we got this one in the 46 inch, and yes we tried everything with the settings, we got it toned down a bit but it was still very noticable, enough for us to take it back. If you do buy it though, I believe you need to replace the bulb/gun every 4-6 thousand hours, but we were told it would cost around 500 dollars

it did sound very good though, amazing speakers

[PsI]

-LCD has the best quality, it will deteriate over time, it won't start getting noticable till about 6 years into use, and after about 9 years, your LCD is gona have pretty bad quality. You can not buy replacement bulbs for these. if you wana see what the quality is at after about 4 years, go check out the older LCDs at Future shop, they have been runing all day everyday for almost 4 years now, and the quality still isn't bad.

-DLP, uses a chip with about a million mirriors on it to show the picture. second best quality, not very expensive and after about 3 years of daily viewing the bulb needs to be replaced. A replacement bulb still isn't forsale yet for most of them but will likely cost anywhere from 300 to 500 dollars.

-rear projection, they suck, you can only view them from certain angles in the room, the bulbs burn out after a couple years, the tvs are heavy, and did i mention the picture quality is usually horrible. People don't talk about changing the bulbs/lasers in these things because they don't usually burn out for a while, they just keep getting worse and worse.

So, Get a DLP!!

[962 kid]

Originally posted by PsI
-LCD has the best quality, it will deteriate over time, it won't start getting noticable till about 6 years into use, and after about 9 years, your LCD is gona have pretty bad quality. You can not buy replacement bulbs for these. if you wana see what the quality is at after about 4 years, go check out the older LCDs at Future shop, they have been runing all day everyday for almost 4 years now, and the quality still isn't bad.

-DLP, uses a chip with about a million mirriors on it to show the picture. second best quality, not very expensive and after about 3 years of daily viewing the bulb needs to be replaced. A replacement bulb still isn't forsale yet for most of them but will likely cost anywhere from 300 to 500 dollars.

-rear projection, they suck, you can only view them from certain angles in the room, the bulbs burn out after a couple years, the tvs are heavy, and did i mention the picture quality is usually horrible. People don't talk about changing the bulbs/lasers in these things because they don't usually burn out for a while, they just keep getting worse and worse.,

So, Get a DLP!!

close but you're forgetting a few things

- a 46 inch inch DLP will end up being around 6 thousand, while a 40 inch LCD is about 2 thou less
-when you get the bulb changed in the DLP, it will be out of commision for about 2 weeks
-the DLP is better movie quality, but the biggest difference is in watching anything but HDTV or movies, the DLP will waste the LCD
-personally, I hate samsung and will always take the sony route whenver its best, its like the whole 50 years of ferrari thing
-the remote for the DLP absolutely sucks (they have a TV at costco with the exact same one), while I really liked the sony one
-I think if I were you I would just cheap out and buy one that will tie you over until canada goes HDTV, because the whole letterbox 4:3 16:9 thing is really, really annoying, its so hard to find some that work together, because on about 90 percent of DVDs, you'll either end up stretching the image or the edges, or seeing black bars, which is the biggest reason for buying a 16:9 tv


I still think theatre style is the best, you can get a DLP one at costco for 1300 bucks, which can be mounted like anywhere, is ultra thin :P, can adjust from 4:3 to 16:9 and the size is adjustable as well. The only downside is that it requires a lot of cables, and a reciever and stuff, as well as a tuner or VCR. Still though, all that totaled up cost us around 2500

projector: 1300
bose sound system: 700
DTS reciever: 400
new DVD player: 150
various optical and composite cables: 100

[Khyron]

Originally posted by 962 kid


close but you're forgetting a few things

- a 46 inch inch DLP will end up being around 6 thousand, while a 40 inch LCD is about 2 thou less
-when you get the bulb changed in the DLP, it will be out of commision for about 2 weeks
-the DLP is better movie quality, but the biggest difference is in watching anything but HDTV or movies, the DLP will waste the LCD
-personally, I hate samsung and will always take the sony route whenver its best, its like the whole 50 years of ferrari thing
-the remote for the DLP absolutely sucks (they have a TV at costco with the exact same one), while I really liked the sony one
-I think if I were you I would just cheap out and buy one that will tie you over until canada goes HDTV, because the whole letterbox 4:3 16:9 thing is really, really annoying, its so hard to find some that work together, because on about 90 percent of DVDs, you'll either end up stretching the image or the edges, or seeing black bars, which is the biggest reason for buying a 16:9 tv


I still think theatre style is the best, you can get a DLP one at costco for 1300 bucks, which can be mounted like anywhere, is ultra thin :P, can adjust from 4:3 to 16:9 and the size is adjustable as well. The only downside is that it requires a lot of cables, and a reciever and stuff, as well as a tuner or VCR. Still though, all that totaled up cost us around 2500

projector: 1300
bose sound system: 700
DTS reciever: 400
new DVD player: 150
various optical and composite cables: 100

Once you go past 40 inches, the LCDs become massively expensive. DLP isn't a model, it's a type, so the remote etc depends on which brand you got. Apparently the Grand Wega is Sony's version of a Digial Light Processing TV. The average joe can replace the bulbs in a few minutes (apparently - I am just reading a lot).

So far what I'm seeing is the DLP is best, but risk that the price will drop big time in the next few years, and to make sure the picture is what you want right away or return the thing.

The black bars look ok when watching normal TV - it's when watching movies
I could care less about the sound, as even the good ones are only like 40 watts - got a low end 6.1 system and I love it.

Khyron

[962 kid]

Originally posted by Khyron


Once you go past 40 inches, the LCDs become massively expensive. DLP isn't a model, it's a type, so the remote etc depends on which brand you got. Apparently the Grand Wega is Sony's version of a Digial Light Processing TV. The average joe can replace the bulbs in a few minutes (apparently - I am just reading a lot).


Khyron

Grand Wega is not a model either. Sony has no DLP yet, and say they have no plans for production, but they said the same thing about plasma. I think you may be right about the DLP and changing the bulb, its the sony one that will be out of commission. its a rear projector LCD, not pure LCD so it has a bulb too


Originally posted by Khyron


So far what I'm seeing is the DLP is best, but risk that the price will drop big time in the next few years, and to make sure the picture is what you want right away or return the thing.

Khyron

yes, the price will go down a lot, especially since other companies are starting to catch on


Originally posted by Khyron


The black bars look ok when watching normal TV - it's when watching movies
I could care less about the sound, as even the good ones are only like 40 watts - got a low end 6.1 system and I love it.

Khyron

yes the black bars are ok on 4:3, but the whole reason for them is so that the film does not need to be changed from its original 16:9 format. With most movies, there will still be black bars, which totally defeats the purpose, and the only way around this is to stretch the image.

If you're that sold on DLP, check out the new Toshiba one, its supposed to be way better than the samsung

[PsI]

TOSHIBA POWER

and ps, wana give me your old tv?

[kenny]

The Sony Grand Wega is an LCD Rear Projection TV. This TV is *NOT* an LCD panel. There are two different series that uses the LCD rear projection technology: XBR Grand Wega (60" and 70") and the regular Grand Wega (42", 50", and 60"). Sony outsources the production of the LCD rear projection technology, as does Panasonic. They both went to the same company so if you buy a Panasonic LCD Rear projection you are getting the exact same screen. when the bulbs go out on an LCD rear projection tv, you simply order a new one. Sony sells one for their TV for $299USD. this bulb replacement is not covered under warranty.

Samsung, and other companies back a technology called DLP Rear projection (Digital Light Processing). This technology has been around since 1989 and is used in many theatres. It is similar to the LCD rear projection technology in that it uses a single white bulb but rather than using LCDs to display the image it uses a color wheel and a chip developed by Texas Instruments (read: a tiny microchip with 921,000 pivoting mirrors on the surface).

Side by side comparisons using the same sources (DVI output from DVD player) show that the DLP TVs display a better picture. However, better is always subjective and is up to the TV buyer :)


Originally posted by PsI
[Bgo check out the older LCDs at Future shop, they have been runing all day everyday for almost 4 years now, and the quality still isn't bad.
[/B]

Store demos are sold ALL the time :) Chances are its been running for 2 months tops.

[Khyron]

Ahhh! Thanks for the clear description. So like Digital8, Sony will eventually go with the flow. At least now I understand when one DLP customer said "At least with the Sony you don't have to replace that spining disc thing".

I will check out a dlp at FS or something this week sometime.

Edit: Do you know offhand in normal english what the diff between the grand wega and the XBR or whatever is? I'm looking at 60 inch so I could go either way.

Khyron

[kenny]

XBR Grand Wega gives you more inputs on the back of the unit, and a better sound system but the unit gets much heavier which is one of the big benefits of the lcd rear projections.

[Xtrema]

Here's my take:

- LCD/Plasma (flat or projection). Burnt pixel happens too often, reliability questionable and they do deterorate over time. Refresh rate is low and high actions scenes looks bad. But static image looks sharp. Unless you have space issue, these are the worst type of HDTV monitor you can get.

- DLP Projection, color and refresh both superior to LCD. Cheaper than LCD/Plasma but takes up more room. Price still should have more room for drops as technology matures. But if you have the $$$, get these.

- 3 Gun rear projection. These are relatively dirt cheap ever since last Christmas. They are not as sharp as the above two but it's proven technology. All of them support up to at least 1080i anyway. The only downside is gun calibration. You'll have to do it once a while keep the best picture. And believe me, once you get over 50", sharpness matter less because your source media is not sharp enough to start with. (Until they start produce DVDs at 780P and 1080i HDTV become common place)

As with any projection (F/R), a bulb (or 3) is required. Usually these bulbs last around 2000hrs or less. So if you watch 2hr of TV/day, good chances are you'll need to replace bulb in about 3 years. And yes, bulbs are $300-$500 at the moment and I don't think they'll drop anytime soon. (same idea as inkjet is cheap but cartridges are expensive)

And I think Sony is overrated anyhow. I think all their products are crap. The only praise I got for them is the WEGA tubes TV. That's is 2nd to none. Everything else they just lags behind everyone.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Xtrema
As with any projection (F/R), a bulb (or 3) is required. Usually these bulbs last around 2000hrs or less. So if you watch 2hr of TV/day, good chances are you'll need to replace bulb in about 3 years. And yes, bulbs are $300-$500 at the moment and I don't think they'll drop anytime soon. (same idea as inkjet is cheap but cartridges are expensive)

That is if they are still making the bulb you need after 3 years.

Also projectors arent THAT cheap either. If you want a bright one (so that you dont have to sit in the dark to watch tv) with high resolution you will still need to pay quite a bit of money for it. Also the ones that support component video are pretty expensive too

[Khyron]

So I'm still watching prices, sales, and listening to opinions.

One thing I've heard is that since the LCD projection TVs are not great at dark shots, movies like Abyss, Gladiator etc with lots of night scenes are bad (how bad is bad, I don't know).

So now I'm considering a high end Toshiba 57 inch - they are about 2 grand less than the DLPs and frankly the viewing angle issue doesn't seem to be as much a problem on the newer ones.

Size and weight don't matter to me. Any suggestions or considerations about rear projections? I'd definately get a higher end one. They include initial convergence settings, and you have to do it again about every 2 years. Cost is aprox 150 bucks for the tech to come out and do it. Not bad at all I think.

Is there any issue with using Xbox etc on a rear projection?

Khyron

[googe]

Originally posted by Khyron
So I'm still watching prices, sales, and listening to opinions.

One thing I've heard is that since the LCD projection TVs are not great at dark shots, movies like Abyss, Gladiator etc with lots of night scenes are bad (how bad is bad, I don't know).

So now I'm considering a high end Toshiba 57 inch - they are about 2 grand less than the DLPs and frankly the viewing angle issue doesn't seem to be as much a problem on the newer ones.

Size and weight don't matter to me. Any suggestions or considerations about rear projections? I'd definately get a higher end one. They include initial convergence settings, and you have to do it again about every 2 years. Cost is aprox 150 bucks for the tech to come out and do it. Not bad at all I think.

Is there any issue with using Xbox etc on a rear projection?

Khyron

i have a 57" sony lcd projection, i found it to be the best looking thing that was reasonably priced short of plasma. if youre going to go with lcd projection, look at sony or toshiba cinema series if you want the best looking (not the lower end toshibas, i forget the name). i play xbox on it all the time. i wouldnt recommend leaving it on pause for a while, because they do burn, but even playing games with icons (health bars, scores, etc) for several hours at a time, even after several months i havent burned anything. i have forgot it on pause for longer than i should have too.

it does 1080i hdtv xbox games perfectly, in fact its so sharp that its the xbox that leaves more to be desired...

its no plasma, but im sure you wont regret it if you get it for a good price

if that toshiba 57" you are looking at is the cinema series, you cant go wrong. after doing my research i was going to go with that one, but i found a deal on the sony that i couldnt refuse.

as for being bad on dark shots, id have to disagree. im more picky than most, and it did a great job in dark movies (and dark video games for that matter, which are worse than any dark movie ive seen)

you can also adjust the brightness to lighten it so much that it doesnt look that dark and you can see more in the dark than intended, or you can darken it so much that you cant see things you should be able to...im not sure what end of the scale you heard it has problems with, but it does both ends and everything in between :dunno:

[Khyron]

Originally posted by googe


i have a 57" sony lcd projection, i found it to be the best looking thing that was reasonably priced short of plasma. if youre going to go with lcd projection, look at sony or toshiba cinema series if you want the best looking (not the lower end toshibas, i forget the name). i play xbox on it all the time. i wouldnt recommend leaving it on pause for a while, because they do burn, but even playing games with icons (health bars, scores, etc) for several hours at a time, even after several months i havent burned anything. i have forgot it on pause for longer than i should have too.

it does 1080i hdtv xbox games perfectly, in fact its so sharp that its the xbox that leaves more to be desired...

its no plasma, but im sure you wont regret it if you get it for a good price

if that toshiba 57" you are looking at is the cinema series, you cant go wrong. after doing my research i was going to go with that one, but i found a deal on the sony that i couldnt refuse.

as for being bad on dark shots, id have to disagree. im more picky than most, and it did a great job in dark movies (and dark video games for that matter, which are worse than any dark movie ive seen)

you can also adjust the brightness to lighten it so much that it doesnt look that dark and you can see more in the dark than intended, or you can darken it so much that you cant see things you should be able to...im not sure what end of the scale you heard it has problems with, but it does both ends and everything in between :dunno:

LCD/DLP projection is relatively new, and it's in 42, 50, 60 and 70 (and up). Rear Proection is 57, 65 etc. The Cinema screens from Toshiba (57 inch - http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=57HX83 ) are rear projection. The only LCD projections from Sony are the Grand WEGAs (and they're like 10 inches wide). Is your TV is 2 feet deep and weighs about 200 pounds? I suspect it's a rear projection CRT which explains why the night scenes are great.

All that aside, obviously your TV has a great picture and you don't seem to have any complaints. Which tells me that maybe I should just get a rear projector in 57 inch and save the extra few grand and chip my car. :D

That's one vote of confidence for the traditional rear projection. :D

Thanks!

Khyron

[googe]

Originally posted by Khyron


LCD/DLP projection is relatively new, and it's in 42, 50, 60 and 70 (and up). Rear Proection is 57, 65 etc. The Cinema screens from Toshiba (57 inch - http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=57HX83 ) are rear projection. The only LCD projections from Sony are the Grand WEGAs (and they're like 10 inches wide). Is your TV is 2 feet deep and weighs about 200 pounds? I suspect it's a rear projection CRT which explains why the night scenes are great.

All that aside, obviously your TV has a great picture and you don't seem to have any complaints. Which tells me that maybe I should just get a rear projector in 57 inch and save the extra few grand and chip my car. :D

That's one vote of confidence for the traditional rear projection. :D

Thanks!

Khyron

from what i understand, there is LCD panel and LCD projection, LCD panel being far better, and is only available in the smaller WEGA sizes

the larger sonys are LCD projection

then again i could be wrong

either way, yes mine is definitely projection. i thought it was LCD projection (last years model) but if there is no such thing, then i suppose its just regular projection :dunno:

[Khyron]

In the end I got the Toshiba 57HX83 - I love it. On sale for 2999 + staff discount, can't go wrong, and leaves enough $$ for a chip for the car. :D

Khyron

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Khyron
In the end I got the Toshiba 57HX83 - I love it. On sale for 2999 + staff discount, can't go wrong, and leaves enough $$ for a chip for the car. :D

Khyron

Good choice. It's good quality for the $$. Now only if they start broadcasting every channel in HD signal.....

[syeve]

Originally posted by Khyron
In the end I got the Toshiba 57HX83 - I love it. On sale for 2999 + staff discount, can't go wrong, and leaves enough $$ for a chip for the car. :D

Khyron

where did you end up buying?

[Khyron]

Well London Drugs had it on clearance, but I have contact at Sears so they price matched and gave discount. You just have to wait till someone puts it on sale - I found Sears, A&B, Future Shop and London Drugs were all priced the same to the exact penny for big screens. FS seemed to have the most models on sale at any given time, but London Drugs has the biggest discounts (but not as often).

What IS interesting is Sears has a FIVE year extended warranty service plan, including guns for 250 bucks. I thought it would be a lot more. (Digital Camcorders and Projection TVs are the only 2 things you really need a service plan).

Khyron

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Khyron

What IS interesting is Sears has a FIVE year extended warranty service plan, including guns for 250 bucks. I thought it would be a lot more. (Digital Camcorders and Projection TVs are the only 2 things you really need a service plan).

Khyron

FS also offer same service plan for about the same price.

With these behemoths, you'll need it.