Budget Watch 2015

[LOLzilla]

So how badly are we going to get hit personally? Remember, they won't be raising corporate taxes or Royalty rates.

PST?
Return of health care premiums? Confirmed.
Increase of provincial tax rate?

[kertejud2]

Progressive income tax seems as good as confirmed.

Probably more like BC and Ontario than Sask and Manitoba.

[Cos]

.

[holden]

I believe he ruled out a sales tax in the speech. Personally I'm for a progressive tax even if it means I end up paying a little more.

Do you think there will be many government layoffs related to the budget?

[nzwasp]

I for one would like to know what the maximum amount for health care premiums will be. It was $1050 per family approx in 2009, and 500 per year for individuals. I could handle it going up to 1500$ per family for the highest income earners. Although I wouldn't be too happy paying an extra 120$ per month for health care, having a child in intensive care for the last month probably cost the govt thousands.

[Thales of Miletus]

We are getting a health care levy of $1,056.00 a year.

I also heard the 5% PST idea bounced around again today.

Prentice said that prior PC government have been stupid, but was glad that Albertans are suckers and will vote for the PC again.

[JustinMCS]

I came in here thinking you wanted a decently priced time piece for this year.

:burnout:

[M.alex]

Originally posted by Cos
Yeah some cuts (can't figure out where) since they mention no cuts to infrastructure and front line pay. I would say graduated income tax (he mentioned protecting people) and health care (pretty much confirmed like you mentioned).

I hate to say it but Prentice and whoever his new team/PR people are doing a great job.

They're just a brunch of crooks and liars.

No deep spending cuts. No sales tax. No this no that. We'll just magically pull money out of thin air.

[ZenOps]

Print more money.

HpYHrbz6V4c

[Cos]

.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Cos
Maybe it is just me but he said that we are short $1700 a year a person. I don't find $1700 to be that steep to make up. I already pay way more federal tax than provincial, what would $65 a cheque be if we could actually have useful hospitals, schools, cancer centers, etc. etc.


The $1,700 cheque wont go to improving anything. It will go to maintaining the status quo...

[HiTempguy1]

The problem is to someone working a $14/h job, its a lot.

At the end of the day, Alberta has close to the lowest overall taxrate in north america. That has to change imo.

Also, I know sometimes people complain about services, but damn, our overall level of service in this province isn't THAT bad.

Has anyone ever thought that maybe we are doing things right/well? We have a hole in the current budget, that can't be helped. Run a couple surpluses the next couple years to get rid of it and call it a day.

There IS something to be said for Alberta's way of life. It isn't exactly awful. Some things do need improvement, I agree. If someone said a tax of $10/paycheque to fix pothholes and repair roads, I'd be all over that in a heartbeat for instance.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[sneek]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Although I wouldn't be too happy paying an extra 120$ per month for health care, having a child in intensive care for the last month probably cost the govt thousands.

It costs the govt thousands per day! Unlike most units, ICU's typically have a 1:1 patient to nurse ratio. Health care costs an unbelievable amount of money so I also wouldn't mind a premium.

[Feruk]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised there is no mention of cutting mega-projects. The two that come to mind are the Oilers arena and the SW Ring Road.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
At the end of the day, Alberta has close to the lowest overall tax rate in North America.
Did you mean Canada? Or are we talking about just provincial tax and not looking at the total someone is taxed?

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Health care premiums were the only real move they had.

An increase on income taxes or a sales tax would have had a huge backlash. They also seem unwilling to cut social programs back for fear of unpopularity.



The main positive I saw come out of this was that they are going to try and ween themselves off of O&G revenue. That would be a big step forward to getting Alberta back in the black long term.

Health care premiums, user fees and a phased rollback/ increase in requirements to receive social benefits would be a net gain for Alberta long term. The biggest hurdle is teaching people to take control of their own situation, which with the group of people 15-35 is like pulling teeth.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by sneek


It costs the govt thousands per day! Unlike most units, ICU's typically have a 1:1 patient to nurse ratio. Health care costs an unbelievable amount of money so I also wouldn't mind a premium.

Children's hospital ICU is 2 patient to 1 nurse.

Anyway I have a buddy who works as a doctor at a calgary hospital and he said that his department alone is over budget by 500 million.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[BigMass]

we don't know the format that healthcare premiums will come back as. It could be part of your income tax and progressive so the rich that can afford it pay more than the poor that would be most negatively effected by it. If that's the case that would be the best way to go about it instead of the old method of receiving an extra flat bill ever few months in the mail. The progressive income tax is a step forward as well. No sales tax is good because it hurts the poor disproportionally. However I see no problem in levying a luxury tax. However I have yet to hear any mention of a luxury tax from any politician in Canada.

[FraserB]

User fess would be better than premiums that come as a bill. No need to make people who don't use the service prop the cost up any more than now. The added benefit is that you cut down on the number of people who treat the hospital and the ER as a walk in clinic for every bullshit complaint.

As to SP's points:

I'd go even further. Subsidize tuition for those enrolled in programs that are in demand, introduce a premium on programs that typically wind up with fewer graduates employed in their area of study. Increase funding for trades education at the same time or offer an incentive such as tools or housing support in remote areas for people actively employed in a trade and pursuing their ticket.

Introduce a cut off for social programs for those who can work, but choose not to for whatever reason. Mandatory work programs for those incarcerated, excellent way to get roads fixed or garbage collected.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by FraserB
User fess would be better than premiums that come as a bill. No need to make people who don't use the service prop the cost up any more than now. The added benefit is that you cut down on the number of people who treat the hospital and the ER as a walk in clinic for every bullshit complaint.

As to SP's points:

I'd go even further. Subsidize tuition for those enrolled in programs that are in demand, introduce a premium on programs that typically wind up with fewer graduates employed in their area of study. Increase funding for trades education at the same time or offer an incentive such as tools or housing support in remote areas for people actively employed in a trade and pursuing their ticket.

Introduce a cut off for social programs for those who can work, but choose not to for whatever reason. Mandatory work programs for those incarcerated, excellent way to get roads fixed or garbage collected.

1) user fees hurt the poor disproportionately who will stop going to seek help when they need it and will have much more complications later on costing the system more than if they would have gone to get a check up without paying a stupid fee. That is why progressive with income tax would be a better idea.

2) Putting educational emphasis on money and materialistic production will hurt our overall society. A society needs philosophers, sociologists, anthropologists etc. It's part of an overall package. If your focus is completely pragmatic and monetarily focused, IMO it will hurt us in the long run and turn us into a failed utilitarian state.

3) The idea that people on social programs just don't want to work is like the idea that the beggar on the corner just wants money for drugs or liquor. As a progressive society we take care of our weak and less fortunate. We have the means to do so instead of focusing on the rich getting richer which is what we have been doing for the past 30 years. Canada has the means, unfortunately it has disproportionately been passed onto the very top %1 of our society just like in many western nations now due to corrupt banking and political systems.

4) Mandatory work programs are horrible as in a weak economy with a rising unemployment rate you will have corruption and slave labor taking jobs away from the middle and lower classes and enrich those managing the prison system and those working within this new worker program you're thinking of.


*** There is a reason that we as a society don't have these programs now, because they are downright terrible and god help us if they start going down this path to turn us into a failed, worse version of the USA.

[SmAcKpOo]

I would be in favour of cutting the SW ring road for sure. Can they still do that or are they under contact with the Tsuu Tina?

Can anyone remember back when we previously had health care premiums, did most employers cover the cost of that? I can't recall. I worked at FedEx at the time and I believe they did but I am not sure if that is a standard thing most companies did back then.

[nzwasp]

Yeah mine did too but in the news article it said no employer would be able to pay this new health care cost

[FraserB]

If you truly need to be on some form of social assistance (and these people exist), then you should receive it. If you're collecting government money but can do some kind of work, you should be doing it. Taxpayers should not be subsidizing lazy people who don't want to work, but can and are happy living off the government purse.

[Swank]

Hospital visits that are avoidable or just plain stupid should come out of the patients pocket 100%. Drug/booze ODs, driving 200 while texting then parking your car in a tree, going to emergency for a hang nail, etc. They're costing the system a fortune and clogging it up.

Giving the government more money just gives them more to piss away. Had it been managed properly in the first place we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[16hypen3sp]

It's going to be interesting tomorrow.

Half of me doesn't want to see it, but the other half just needs to.

[Thales of Miletus]

The latest I have heard is a sliding scale on health care premiums based on income. A new flat tax rate that is higher than the current. A 9% cut in services. And tax cuts for corporations.

Prentice evidently thinks that corporations should not pay for the past mistakes of Albertans.

[kertejud2]

A couple handy charts

First, about how much tax room there is to still have the 'Alberta Advantage'

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7477/15721569123_fa380f2011_o.jpg


The second, where a lot of this money goes

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7530/16249078856_cd91e08339_o.jpg

[Cos]

.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Cos
Holy shit. AHS is 48%!

I like the alberta advantage chart too. We have a bit to go, no matter what the oil companies say. Haha

Thats why I think the province should double the amount of gyms and make memberships free. They should also give tax breaks to people who maintain a healthy lifestyle.

[LOLzilla]

Here we go. Time to see how we all need to share in the pain (except for corporations).

[EM2FTL]

Livestream - http://www.cbc.ca/i/caffeine/syndicate/?clipId=2632108755

[16hypen3sp]

Traffic fines going up and more fuel tax?

[nzwasp]

Fuel tax going up 4c a liter to 13c. Also province is draining heritage fund by 4b making its balance 1b. Flat tax increasing for rich ppl earning more than 100k

[Cos]

.

[nzwasp]

Oh thought cbc said 9 c. Anyway it's going up at midnight tonight

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by Cos


I heard $0.04

Gas tax going up from 9 cents to 13 cents I think.

This whole budget is bad news for me.

[dino_martini]

Health-care levy effective July 1, 2015, to be added to taxable income of Albertans making more than $50,000

For those making over $250k/yr, tax goes to 11, 11.5, 12 and back to 11.5% in 2019

For $100k-$250k/yr, prov personal tax gradually goes up to 11.5% over the next four years.

No provincial sales tax included in the budget. Corporate taxes and oil royalties also unchanged.

Taxes on booze and cigarettes are going up, it's also going to cost more to camp, register a birth/death... traffic fines also up 35%

[Xtrema]

Don't have details yet but what I caught so far:

Premium returns to be taken as tax. $500 for $50-$130K income and $1000 for more than $130K.

Flat tax higher for $100K+ earners, 10.5%.

11% for $250K+

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Fuel tax going up 9c a liter. Also province is draining heritage fund by 4b making its balance 1b. Flat tax increasing for rich ppl earning more than 100k


The fuel tax applicable to gasoline and diesel will be raised by four cents, to 13 cents per litre.

Traffic fines are going up 35%.

[EM2FTL]

Apologies for the copypasta:

Health Care Contribution Levy
• Albertans with taxable income over $50,000 will begin to pay the new Health Care Contribution Levy (HCCL) on July 1, 2015. Individuals with taxable income below $50,000 a year will not be subject to the HCCL.
• The new levy is capped at $1,000 annually, which is reached at $130,800 in taxable income.
• It is estimated that the HCCL will impact about 1.1 million Albertans.
• The new Health Care Contribution Levy is expected to raise $396 million in 2015-16. This amount will rise to about $530 million in 2016-17, the first full fiscal year for which the change will be effective.




Personal Income Tax
• Budget 2015 introduces two new tax brackets starting January 1, 2016.
• Taxable income over $100,000 will be subject to a provincial income tax rate of 11.5 per cent once fully implemented over three years. It is expected that this change will impact about 330,000 Albertans, representing 11 per cent of provincial tax filers.
• Taxable income over $250,000 will be subject to a tax rate of 12 per cent once fully implemented. This rate will be reduced to 11.5 per cent after three years to match that of earners over $100,000.
• The additional 0.5 per cent rate is intended to raise additional revenue until the budget is balanced and is estimated to impact about 44,000 of Alberta’s highest income earners, about 1.5 per cent of tax filers.
• Taxable income below $100,000 will continue to be taxed at 10 per cent, as has been the case since 2001. The last time that personal income taxes increased in Alberta was in 1987.
• These new tax brackets are expected to generate an additional $330 million in 2016-17, rising to about $730 million in 2018-19.

[nzwasp]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Don't have details yet but what I caught so far:

Premium returns to be taken as tax. $500 for $50-$130K income and $1000 for more than $130K.

Flat tax higher for $100K+ earners but I didn't catch the numbers.

It's $200 from 50 to 70k

[ExtraSlow]

While any increase in taxes in unpalatable, I can support an increased fuel tax. That's a pure consumption tax, and it encourages behaviors like operating more fuel efficient vehicles and driving less that are good for the environment and also in many ways good for society. People have complained about urban sprawl and other planning issues, one of the many driving forces behind that is the low cost of fuel.

However, I have full confidence that the Alberta PC party can squander this money for political benefit and we'll be in no better shape a few years down the road.

[ExtraSlow]

Also, un-flattening the income tax isn't totally crazy.

[LOLzilla]

My tax bracket just moved up +1.5%.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
My tax bracket just moved up +1.5%.

Damn 11%er.

:rofl:

So your income splitting tax refund now belongs to Prentice if you are lucky.

Still, this is a election budget. What are they going to do about the $4B shortfall next year after heritage fund runs out?

[LOLzilla]

After they win the next majority election? PST. They'll call it something else though. AHFT. Alberta Heritage Fund Tax.

[Swank]

http://alberta.ca/budget-highlights.cfm

[Sugarphreak]

...

[quick_scar]

All traffic tickets are going up 35%.

[16hypen3sp]

Your guys' ring road is delayed.

[Swank]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
Your guys' ring road is delayed.
Is it?

Roads and transit

Under the Capital Plan, $6.7 billion will be invested over the next 5 years in the Provincial Highway Network, including:
road and bridge construction and rehabilitation
Highway 63 Twinning
the Edmonton and Calgary Ring Roads

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Ladies and Gentlemen... the "Alberta Advantage" has just left the building

Yep. Instead of being the lowest taxed province we are now the lowest taxed province.

Hopefully, somehow, life will go on.

[guessboi]

At least there is no PST. :banghead:

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by Swank

Is it?

Roads and transit

Under the Capital Plan, $6.7 billion will be invested over the next 5 years in the Provincial Highway Network, including:
road and bridge construction and rehabilitation
Highway 63 Twinning
the Edmonton and Calgary Ring Roads

Yah I seen that too but some reporter just said it was delayed until 2021 or something. I'm not familiar with the project so I don't really know... I'm just going by what was said.

[kertejud2]

The Glenmore to Trans Canada portion is delayed.

The Glenmore to 37th portion will go ahead, because of the nature of the deal with the Tsuu Tina.

[Masked Bandit]

Meh, all things considered I don't think this going to make much difference on a day to day basis.

[Xtrema]

After reading thru it, it's not that bad. The question is what's going to sneak in if PC is voted in.

[HiTempguy1]

But of course, no corporate tax rate increase:

http://www.taxtips.ca/smallbusiness/corporatetax/corporate-tax-rates-2014.htm

We have the lowest tax rate for the richest corporations in Canada. Of course we do :nut:

[Type_S1]

Why the fk are only people over 50k taxed on Healthcare? Higher educated higher income people just getting screwed again and again by our governments inability to make the necessary cuts to education and medical.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
But of course, no corporate tax rate increase:

http://www.taxtips.ca/smallbusiness/corporatetax/corporate-tax-rates-2014.htm

We have the lowest tax rate for the richest corporations in Canada. Of course we do :nut:

http://www.albertacanada.com/business/overview/competitive-corporate-taxes.aspx

We are actually don't have that much room there to remain competitive as a land locked province.


Originally posted by Type_S1
Why the fk are only people over 50k taxed on Healthcare? Higher educated higher income people just getting screwed again and again by our governments inability to make the necessary cuts to education and medical.

At maximum, the premium is no worse than Stelmach took it off. But it's better when they make it employer's problem.

[icky2unk]

So basically people are being forced to pay higher health care than others and get the same service lol

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Xtrema


http://www.albertacanada.com/business/overview/competitive-corporate-taxes.aspx

We are actually don't have that much room there to remain competitive as a land locked province.


"That much room"

1% equals an extra billion dollars a year. Match us to BC. That's all I ask.

Corporations earn absurd amounts of money in this province and utilize a LOT of public infrastructure to do it.

At the same time, the PC's really need to get their shit together on spending. I'm still not voting for them this election. :whipped:

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by icky2unk
So basically people are being forced to pay higher health care than others and get the same service lol

It's fair isn't it?

Here's a solution: 20% job cuts to every area of government and 10% wage roll backs just like private companies are doing. That's a huge cost savings. Cut social welfare programs 25%. Triple traffic fines. Make booze and liqour taxes 10x what they are. Shit, legalize pot for extra revenue if you need to.

I honestly would rather even PST then having the province single out higher earners and make them pay more for the same service. I am now going to be paying more taxes and a health care premium all because I worked my ass off to become successful. Counter-intuitive if you ask me. Tax the lower income individuals more because they probably use the health care system more getting doctors notes for sick days (higher income earners take less sick days), using services for drug and alcohol problems, etc.

[rage2]

Haha I'm hit by every single hike except tobacco. :rofl:

You're welcome Alberta.

On the bright side, it's still cheaper than a sales tax, especially for car guys.

[16hypen3sp]

The health care levy bothers me as a person who makes more than 50k.

Won't the added fuel tax increase transportation costs for everything?

How I feel about the entire thing - The government hasn't been very fiscally responsible for years now. Why should we give them more tax dollars for their mess up?

And they still didn't really cut spending.

[dino_martini]

From reading the budget, its almost like traffic fines are largely a form of revenue generation. :rofl:

[spikerS]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp


And they still didn't really cut spending.

And THAT is why for the first time ever, in the next election, I will NOT vote PC.

They had a chance to better ration the cookies from the jar. Instead, they just told us to buy more cookies.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Tax the lower income individuals more because they probably use the health care system more getting doctors notes for sick days (higher income earners take less sick days), using services for drug and alcohol problems, etc.

I think it is actually true that lower income individuals are more of a drain on the healthcare system than high income users are.

So we pay more for less and they pay less for more :dunno:

2 tier healthcare would have been a much better way to save healthcare costs.

Let the "rich" pay for a higher class of service and free up resources for the poor.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Originally posted by dino_martini
From reading the budget, its almost like traffic fines are largely a form of revenue generation. :rofl:
Doesn't traffic fines go back into city general revenue? Or is this only for rcmp highway tickets that's getting increased and going into the province?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by spikerS


And THAT is why for the first time ever, in the next election, I will NOT vote PC.

They had a chance to better ration the cookies from the jar. Instead, they just told us to buy more cookies.

And also accused everyone else of eating too many of the cookies to begin with.



Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I am actually pleased they decided to do it this way. It would have been such a waste of money and effort if they simply scrapped the deal with Tsuu Tina.

:werd:

Trying to reneogiate that deal in another decade would cost 100 times more. Just get it done, even if it goes to nowhere (for now), lol.

[Strider]

I would've much preferred to see a health care deductible.
$50 for every doctor visit, $200 for every ER visit (or something along those lines).

Why should I pay extra for health care based on what I earn rather than what I use? I haven't been admitted to a hospital in my life or been to a doctor in years.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by spikerS


And THAT is why for the first time ever, in the next election, I will NOT vote PC.

They had a chance to better ration the cookies from the jar. Instead, they just told us to buy more cookies.

Agreed spikers. Good analogy.

[Cos]

.

[mazdavirgin]

:dunno:

Most people want cuts to programs that don't impact them. However if you cut programs that impact them they bitch and moan to high heavens. So whats is the government to do?

Does anyone really think the budget would have been different if you all had elected the wild rose nutters? :facepalm:

[speedog]

Originally posted by quick_scar
All traffic tickets are going up 35%.
No, an average of 35%. Big deal - if you wish to flaunt the traffic laws, then you'll have to play to play. Running a red light will go from $287 to $388. Not stopping at a crosswalk while it's occupied/lights going from $172 to $233 - that one should be way more as motorists just keep running crosswalks while people are in them, though it was already $575 for not stopping while someone was in a crosswalk. Guess this is a different fine.

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
But of course, no corporate tax rate increase:

http://www.taxtips.ca/smallbusiness/corporatetax/corporate-tax-rates-2014.htm

We have the lowest tax rate for the richest corporations in Canada. Of course we do :nut:
You say that like it's a bad thing?

My only real complaints are them failing to adopt universal application on health care levies, minimal cuts to government spend, and an inability to balance the budget.

The government needs to find efficiencies just as privately owned companies do to survive. Once that is exhausted marginal tax rates should have been hiked for all individuals to balance the equation NOT corporations.

I will get hit with every single tax or levy except the smoking one. To be honest, I wish it was more to ensure the budget was balanced.

[BrknFngrs]

I'm shocked at the whining about the graduated approach to health care premiums. For people paying the maximum it's still a nominal cost while it could be very material for lower income families.

Im glad to see it done this way and yes, all of these changes hit me as well with the exception of the extra tax on cigarettes.

[OU812]

Aren't the "poor" generally the highest users of health care. Plus don't have money for gym b memberships or recreational sports and they don't have to pay??

We all got here but only those who make $xxxxx have to pay = bs

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by OU812
Aren't the "poor" generally the highest users of health care. Plus don't have money for gym b memberships or recreational sports and they don't have to pay??

We all got here but only those who make $xxxxx have to pay = bs

Those who have the blessing of making more should pay more.

What you pay in health care, is still way cheaper than the United States, and whatever you put into it, you will more than cost the system in the last few weeks of your life.

I don't know if all young people today are selfish, or just Albertans? I was proud of being in a high tax bracket and proud that I could help so many at the time.

Also you are whining about the poor getting these breaks, when corporations get the biggest social handout. How much extra did they have to pay? Nuffin.

p.s. Job Creators = Bullshit

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Strider
I would've much preferred to see a health care deductible.
$50 for every doctor visit, $200 for every ER visit (or something along those lines).

Why should I pay extra for health care based on what I earn rather than what I use? I haven't been admitted to a hospital in my life or been to a doctor in years.

How soon did people forget how the old premium works.

The old and poor never pay any. The working does. The idea is same as CPP/EI.

Except this time around, the charges are the same but they extract from the working population via income tax instead of employers because that is the lowest cost in implementation. If you don't like it, find someone willing to pay extra $1000/yr for your job?

The only thing I don't like is the self employed who doesn't have to pay either since they probably draw less to avoid taxes anyway and they get free health care on top.


If we are doing deductible, we may as well go 2-tier system. People are already dying because they don't want to call ambulance, it's going to be worse if you start charging for everything. I'm not saying single payer government help care is perfect because of too many government admin leeching too much from the system but at least people are taken care off.

Last I want is US style health care.

For this budget, I think PC didn't do enough but did as much as they think they can away with to be elected again. The problem still is

1) we have too much waste in admin
2) we don't collect enough from the people/corporations who can afford it.

And they are doing a hail mary that we will see $80 oil by next budget cycle which could be at least 4 years away. So WTF are we going to do with 3 of the years when heritage fund is $0?

[msommers]

Originally posted by OU812
Aren't the "poor" generally the highest users of health care. Plus don't have money for gym b memberships or recreational sports and they don't have to pay??

We all got here but only those who make $xxxxx have to pay = bs

:rofl: :rofl: Wow where did you get all that accurate information from??

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Also province is draining heritage fund by 4b making its balance 1b.

Originally posted by Xtrema
What are they going to do about the $4B shortfall next year after heritage fund runs out?

Originally posted by Xtrema
So WTF are we going to do with 3 of the years when heritage fund is $0?

It's not the Heritage Fund...:facepalm: it's the from the Sustainability Fund (Contingency Account) which was over $8B before shit hit the fan the last time....

They plan to grow the heritage fund ($17B) not shrink it thank god. :nut:

They should be taking the revenue from it and reinvesting it not putting it back into general revenue like they're currently doing. :thumbsdow

EDIT

Savings
Government will use its savings from the Contingency Account to balance off the forecasted deficit of $5 billion. The Contingency Account will be drawn down to $2.5 billion from its current balance of $6.5 billion.

With a return to surplus budgets in 2017-18, the Contingency Account will be replenished to $5 billion by 2019-20. When the Contingency Account reaches $5 billion, savings will be added to the Heritage Savings Trust Fund. This is forecasted to add $18 billion to the Heritage Fund in 10 years.

link (http://alberta.ca/release.cfm?xID=379486D767B80-E6B6-D13B-D2D8C1E809442C2F)

[Thales of Miletus]

Maybe we need two pilots in the cockpit?

The PC have been flying the plane alone for too long. Time to, at the very least, vote in an opposition.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[dubhead]

I'm affected by all these but tobacco, in the grand scheme of things the added cost stings on paper but really doesn't do anything to affect my day to day life.

My biggest gripes would be:
1. health care premiums just dump into general revenue
2. Major decrease in deduction for charitable contributions, it seems like this could hurt a lot of charities

[Nitro5]

Also remember it's a paper budget. Election will be called and the Legislature will fold before it passes.

Also why do we have a flat corporate tax? If a progressive income tax makes sense on the personal side, why not on the corporate?

[Thales of Miletus]

The fact that Albertan's are now paying 45 bucks a carton and 13 cents a liter for gas is the issue. The P.C.'s comment, that they can't tax the corporation, or else the corporations will go away, is idiotic. That piece of propaganda stinks of Reaganomics.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
The fact that Albertan's are now paying 45 bucks a carton and 13 cents a liter for gas is the issue. The P.C.'s comment, that they can't tax the corporation, or else the corporations will go away, is idiotic. That piece of propaganda stinks of Reaganomics.

:dunno: Alberta keeps voting conservative so that sorta comes with the territory... The wild rose would give you the same result. They all believe in the whole trickle down job creator business jazz.

If you want to tax the corporations you really should be electing the Liberals/NDP. Frankly it's pretty hilarious seeing the suggestions people have along the lines of the government being fiscally irresponsible when this is the definition of being responsible. Balancing the budget by increasing taxes.

George W Bush tried the whole tax cuts balancing budget act and look where that left the USA :rofl: Conservatives speeding money like drunken sailors since the 1900's.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin



George W Bush tried the whole tax cuts balancing budget act and look where that left the USA :rofl: Conservatives speeding money like drunken sailors since the 1900's.

Yup, Conservative's spout memes that are anti-logic but catchy.

"Trickle down economics" means "flow up capital". It really should have been labeled "trickle down poverty".

And the Alberta government uses the exact same kind of propaganda as the GOP. "The Job creators will leave, if you ask them to pay taxes, so no corporate tax increases".

If the PC's were interested in serving the public, they wouldn't be spouting propaganda that makes the public afraid to ask for more gruel.

Prentice asked Albertans to look in a mirror. I wonder how many Albertans did and are seeing suckers?

[Type_S1]

When people say higher corporate tax do you realize the implications? Do you not realize that our main employer is O&G? Do you not realize that thousands upon thousands of people were laid off so they can meet there bottom line for shareholders? If you raise taxes what do you think happens? If you don't think more job losses you are blind and don't understand basic business and economic concepts.

So yes, raising corporate taxes does not make sense for oil and gas. They ARE the job creators. Raise corporate taxes for other industries, sure, or some sort of progressive tax based on oil price where the higher oil price profits are shared, not taken.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Type_S1
When people say higher corporate tax do you realize the implications? Do you not realize that our main employer is O&G? Do you not realize that thousands upon thousands of people were laid off so they can meet there bottom line for shareholders? If you raise taxes what do you think happens? If you don't think more job losses you are blind and don't understand basic business and economic concepts.

So yes, raising corporate taxes does not make sense for oil and gas. They ARE the job creators. Raise corporate taxes for other industries, sure, or some sort of progressive tax based on oil price where the higher oil price profits are shared, not taken.

:werd:

And whenever i hear that someone thinks a corporation is to profitable blah blah blah i just encourage you to buy stock in that company if it makes SO MUCH MONEY. I think you will be sorely disappointed on your actual return on investment.

:dunno:

[Masked Bandit]

So for people who aren't going to vote PC next time, what's your solution? It's easy to raise a pitchfork & torch and vow to run 'em out of town, but who is going to do it differently? The WRA? They can't even keep their own team in line. The Liberals? NDP?

I don't honestly see this budget as that bad (all things considered of course). If someone came into your family home and stripped away a bunch of your revenue (loss of O & G royalty money), are you telling me you could honestly maintain the same lifestyle without finding additional sources of income? Maybe you've got that magic money tree out back that you can just go and pluck $4,000,000,000 from? But more than likely you send the wife back to work and possibly put a little more on the Visa card than you did in the past.

I'm not saying I LIKE paying more, but it sure could have been a lot worse. Our gas & liquor are still cheaper than either of our communist-minded neighbouring provinces. They've also got the beautiful PST going on. If you think shit's expensive here, try either of those places.

[Cos]

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[spikerS]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
So for people who aren't going to vote PC next time, what's your solution? It's easy to raise a pitchfork & torch and vow to run 'em out of town, but who is going to do it differently? The WRA? They can't even keep their own team in line. The Liberals? NDP?

NDP would make our current situation worse.
WRA - maybe, but Danielle Smith has fucked em over pretty hard. They are not ready.
Liberals - As much as I hate to say it, they will probably get my vote.

I am a PC through and Through, but the current PCs are taking advantage of us, and way too many liberties. They need to be sent a message. A painful message.



I don't honestly see this budget as that bad (all things considered of course). If someone came into your family home and stripped away a bunch of your revenue (loss of O & G royalty money), are you telling me you could honestly maintain the same lifestyle without finding additional sources of income? Maybe you've got that magic money tree out back that you can just go and pluck $4,000,000,000 from? But more than likely you send the wife back to work and possibly put a little more on the Visa card than you did in the past.

You are correct. The budget is not all THAT bad. But it is what isn't there that pisses me off. There is very little in the way of reigning in spending. If I have to take a wage cut at work to keep my job, I will probably take it, and be happy I have a job still. Obviously, I can't keep the same lifestyle. If I try to maintain it, I will end up with a pile of debt that I can never get out of.

This budget is sending the message of "spending remains status quo" and we are going to take more money out of your pockets, those people that have been laid off, lost their jobs, or whatever. Before taking that money from the tax payers, they should have looked internally first, and looked for cost savings there.


I'm not saying I LIKE paying more, but it sure could have been a lot worse. Our gas & liquor are still cheaper than either of our communist-minded neighbouring provinces. They've also got the beautiful PST going on. If you think shit's expensive here, try either of those places.

http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/02/canadian-costs.png?w=243&h=378

Cheaper in BC, only slightly higher in Sask...

[Cos]

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[freshprince1]

Originally posted by Xtrema
After reading thru it, it's not that bad. The question is what's going to sneak in if PC is voted in.

That's just it. They've been leaking "PST" and other larger increases to prepare us for REALLY bad news. Now they just lay on the SORT OF bad news (i.e. HC premiums, incremental income tax, increased fuel tax...etc) hoping that people's reaction will be, "oh, it's not that bad", thereby still winning a majority election. Once they have the majority...then they'll sneak in the undesirables like PST.

It was good while it lasted. As a single income household with 3 kids, I'm looking at $1000 health care, increased income tax, plus all the others. Everything Harper just lined up for us is now going directly to Prentice. Gotta see what Ol' Stevie can do for me when the PST arrives.

[spikerS]

I don't like the NDP on principal and seeing how they operate in BC.

Liberal i can mostly handle.

More than anything, I want to see the PCs humbled. I want to see them loose a majority for a term.

[Cos]

.