Why do dealers hide prices?

[3drian]

Is it a common practice for dealers to not give up their prices easily?
I am thinking of upgrading my vehicle, and last night I visited a mitsu dealer, after probably 90 min of talking, meeting the manager, answering their questions, I was unable to get a price on the car I was looking at, or how much the would give me if I wanted to trade in my vehicle.

I was getting frustrated, they brought up 3 vehicles that would fit my budget and preference, and even offered a test drive that I declined, but no prices, I decided to just leave.

Then I drove by Subaru, and noticed that they do have big prices on all their vehicles which is nice. So it left me wondering, why would some dealers not show their prices?

[killramos]

They want to decide how much of a rube you are before they the pick your markup?

Most dealers i know list their inventory complete with price on their websites. Cant say i have ever shopped for a Mitsubishi though.

[3drian]

Originally posted by killramos
They want to decide how much of a rube you are before they the pick your markup?



Good point, I even checked other mitsu dealers website and none of them show prices, not even on kijiji, makes me a bit uneasy to deal with them.

[killramos]

http://www.mitsu.ca/new-inventory/index.htm

Somehow i am seeing a price next to each car...

[roopi]

It seems like dealers like to ask you what your ideal monthly payment is and then they try and work from there to maximize profit.

Act like you're buying the vehicle cash (even if you aren't). Once you have your price agreed upon for a cash deal either buy it cash or tell them you decided to finance. :thumbsup:

[3drian]

Originally posted by killramos
http://www.mitsu.ca/new-inventory/index.htm

Somehow i am seeing a price next to each car...

Interesting, I am not in calgary so I did not check Platinum.
I guess I only checked the dealers they recommended since they are owned by the same person and according to them they could get me any car at those dealerships free of charge regardless the location.

[3drian]

Originally posted by roopi

Act like you're buying the vehicle cash (even if you aren't). Once you have your price agreed upon for a cash deal either buy it cash or tell them you decided to finance. :thumbsup:

Thank you, I will try this next time

[ExtraSlow]

Always tell them you are paying cash, always negotiate the price inclusive of all fees, levy's and taxes.
Always get it in writing.

[spikerS]

psychological.


$49k sounds like a lot of money, so by not listing it, they can talk to you. They can then make that number sound a whole lot smaller by saying it is $299 a month! It all helps them make a sale.

Their whole tactic is to get you saying "yes" enough times or to get you making positive statements, so that when you get asked the big question "do you want to buy it" you are already used to saying yes.

[blitz]

Monthly price negotiations work really well on Mar-like people.

[94boosted]

That or know what your max monthly payment and longest term you feel comfortable with. If you're ok with $500/mo for 60 months. Tell them you're not willing to spend more than $450/mo and you'll end up settling somewhere around the 500 mark. Of course these numbers are for a car in the high twenties.

Edit here's an example.

Sticker Price of car: $27,999
Freight, PDI, Dealer Fees: $1500
Tax: $1475
Total:$30,974
@ 0.9% Interest & 60 months that works out to: $528/mo

Knowing that I would of walked in there saying $450/mo is all I'm willing to pay, they come back at 510, you go 475 blah, blah, good chance you'll settle at $500

[rx7boi]

Sorry, but that's far from being good advice.

You can simplify and bypass all of that bullshit by just negotiating the out-the-door price, with all fees included. Work out the math of how much you're paying for a car based on the final price. All the dealer cares about is how much money they make.

It is easy to lose track of numbers when you have to remember your monthly payments, interest rates, and terms and each time they change a number, the others may change as well.

Dealerships will try to wear you down, so why on earth would you even consider playing the game they want you to play where they have the opportunity to confuse you with a bunch of numbers?

They don't put prices up for a reason: knowledge is power.

The less you know, the more power they have.

[J.M.]

Do people really negotiate monthly payments vs the total out the door price of the car? Seems like an easy way to get ripped off and end up paying way more haha :dunno:

[FraserB]

Originally posted by rx7boi
Sorry, but that's far from being good advice.
You can simplify and bypass all of that bullshit by just negotiating the out-the-door price, with all fees included.

This is what I did. Figured how much I was willing to spend, drove the vehicle, gave them my price. Once they agreed to it (after I walked once and switched to a different sales guy), I let them figure out their end for the taxes etc...


Originally posted by J.M.
Do people really negotiate monthly payments vs the total out the door price of the car? Seems like an easy way to get ripped off and end up paying way more haha :dunno:

PM Mar.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by rx7boi
Sorry, but that's far from being good advice.

You can simplify and bypass all of that bullshit by just negotiating the out-the-door price, with all fees included. Work out the math of how much you're paying for a car based on the final price. All the dealer cares about is how much money they make.

It is easy to lose track of numbers when you have to remember your monthly payments, interest rates, and terms and each time they change a number, the others may change as well.

Dealerships will try to wear you down, so why on earth would you even consider playing the game they want you to play where they have the opportunity to confuse you with a bunch of numbers?

They don't put prices up for a reason: knowledge is power.

The less you know, the more power they have.

I guess to each their own, it's worked great for me for years. If you're quick at math it's not hard to keep track of what's going on.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by J.M.
Do people really negotiate monthly payments vs the total out the door price of the car? Seems like an easy way to get ripped off and end up paying way more haha :dunno:

:werd:

The only time I did a trade-in at a dealership, I kept talking about the price difference between the two, and they kept trying to change the subject to financing, and "we'll lower the price to $X, but will only give you $Y for your trade-in" etc.

I finally just had to tell them in a very firm manner that
A) This is the price difference I'm will to pay, end of story, I don't care how you juggle the numbers at your end, I'm only giving you a cheque for $Z dollars.
B) I would not be financing through them, period, end of story stop fucking suggesting it, and talking about monthly payments.
C) It better include everything, taxes, fees, and a two keys.

They finally realized I wasn't a Mar and we proceeded with the deal.

[HiTempguy1]

Its all about psychology. They get your foot in the door, you are that much closer to buying a vehicle. Obviously you want a vehicle, and obviously if your foot is in the door, they have a vehicle you want.

Its no different than houses. It blows my mind how nonchalant people are about buying the most expensive purchase in their lives.

[3drian]

I think the mistake I made was not figuring out exactly what I wanted and what my top number was before stepping into the dealership. I now have a better Idea of how much I am willing to spend, I am not sure if they will contact me again, I hope they do since I am curious to know how much they will be willing to give me for my vehicle as a trade in.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by 94boosted


I guess to each their own, it's worked great for me for years. If you're quick at math it's not hard to keep track of what's going on.

For sure, and I respect if that works for you :thumbsup:

Just that even the best of us can have trouble keeping up with dealership tactics so I always opt for the OTD price only.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by 3drian
I think the mistake I made was not figuring out exactly what I wanted and what my top number was before stepping into the dealership. I now have a better Idea of how much I am willing to spend, I am not sure if they will contact me again, I hope they do since I am curious to know how much they will be willing to give me for my vehicle as a trade in.

FYI, I am not sure if you have looked at what the invoice price for your vehicle is yet.

The story doesn't end with the invoice pricing (unless you're okay with that and don't want to save more money). Everyone can get their hands on invoice pricing nowadays and they'll go in thinking they have an ace in their hands.

Dealerships make money on alot of things, so whatever they don't make money on is money in your pocket. Don't worry about being "cheap."

You'll know where the dealership draws a line on how much they're willing to give up to make a sale.

Things they make money on:
- The car they're selling you
- The car you're trading to them
- Dealer manufacturer holdbacks
- Bonuses for selling a certain amount of cars per month/quarter/annum
- Financing
- Extended service plans
- Hoping you return to them for services

[spikerS]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Its no different than houses. It blows my mind how nonchalant people are about buying the most expensive purchase in their lives.

No kidding! I was pre-approved for my last mortgage for 2.5 years before I pulled the trigger.

[guessboi]

Do your homework and negotiate the final price (taxes, everything included)
Last 2 new cars I bought...I got 20% and 10% off MSRP respectively.

Never ever negotiate by monthly payments.

[Strider]

Originally posted by 3drian
I think the mistake I made was not figuring out exactly what I wanted and what my top number was before stepping into the dealership. I now have a better Idea of how much I am willing to spend, I am not sure if they will contact me again, I hope they do since I am curious to know how much they will be willing to give me for my vehicle as a trade in.

Build the car to your exact specifications on their website, then use unhaggle or car cost canada to find the "invoice price" and search car specific forums to see what others are getting for a discount off MSRP.

Use that to determine your number. Be realistic and be firm.

Then call around or email dealers (almost every dealership has an "internet sales manager" these days) and find out who will play ball. Even better if you can play them against each other.

They're usually pretty happy to give you a good deal to make a sale with 20 minutes of paperwork rather than deal with you for 2-3 hours of hemming and hawing then another 2 hours of dickering.

And make sure you're talking bottom line (aka out the door / on the road) numbers with all freight/pdi/taxes included and no BS like block heater or vin etching on top.

[guessboi]

^ yes I purchased my last vehicle solely by email and low balling from the start. They agreed to my offer I couldn't refuse. :rofl:

[94boosted]

Originally posted by rx7boi


FYI, I am not sure if you have looked at what the invoice price for your vehicle is yet.

The story doesn't end with the invoice pricing (unless you're okay with that and don't want to save more money). Everyone can get their hands on invoice pricing nowadays and they'll go in thinking they have an ace in their hands.

Dealerships make money on alot of things, so whatever they don't make money on is money in your pocket. Don't worry about being "cheap."

You'll know where the dealership draws a line on how much they're willing to give up to make a sale.

Things they make money on:
- The car they're selling you
- The car you're trading to them
- Dealer manufacturer holdbacks
- Bonuses for selling a certain amount of cars per month/quarter/annum
- Financing
- Extended service plans
- Hoping you return to them for services

Don't forget extended warranties and protection packages (3M, paint protection etc.)

[msommers]

Whenever I have negotiated the price on a new vehicle for myself, friend or Mom, I always say "what's the price out the door." They have figure how GST and all the bologna fees come into play. If I'm not spending more than $40K, it doesn't mean $40K plus everything else to make it $45K out the door.

Also don't fall for the 0% financing. Basically:

$30,000 total over 5 years @ 1.5% = $31005.52 total

OR!!!

$31,0005.52 over 5 years @ 0%!!

They get the money either way.

[J.M.]

Originally posted by msommers
Whenever I have negotiated the price on a new vehicle for myself, friend or Mom, I always say "what's the price out the door." They have figure how GST and all the bologna fees come into play. If I'm not spending more than $40K, it doesn't mean $40K plus everything else to make it $45K out the door.

Also don't fall for the 0% financing. Basically:

$30,000 total over 5 years @ 1.5% = $31005.52 total

OR!!!

$31,0005.52 over 5 years @ 0%!!

They get the money either way.

My cousins wife just bought a brand new Corolla S, when he told me it ended up costing around $32k my fucking jaw dropped..

[zipdoa]

https://www.carcostcanada.com/en/

[klumsy_tumbler]

Originally posted by J.M.


My cousins wife just bought a brand new Corolla S, when he told me it ended up costing around $32k my fucking jaw dropped..

Ouch.... Mine was just under $28k out the door, fully loaded and with TRD extras. Also had them throw in 3M, paint protection, undercoating, and mats for free. Did your cousin and his wife pull a Mar or something?

[J.M.]

Originally posted by klumsy_tumbler


Ouch.... Mine was just under $28k out the door, fully loaded and with TRD extras. Also had them throw in 3M, paint protection, undercoating, and mats for free. Did your cousin and his wife pull a Mar or something?

Pretty much haha.. Looks like you got a pretty solid deal with all that stuff thrown in :thumbsup:

[soloracer]

Some of the recent tactics I have heard about make me shake my head. For example:

1) Dealership insists on a deposit be put down before talking about price on any vehicles. There is a domestic dealership here that works that way.

2) Refusing to quote vehicle prices over the phone, e-mail or fax. Insist that you must come to the dealership to talk prices

3) Offering 1 price for a vehicle for a cash sale. Then when you ask about 0% financing they increase the price of the vehicle. How is that 0% financing when the finance costs are built into the vehicle price?

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by soloracer


3) Offering 1 price for a vehicle for a cash sale. Then when you ask about 0% financing they increase the price of the vehicle. How is that 0% financing when the finance costs are built into the vehicle price?

That's been around forever. I bought my first brand new vehicle back in 2000 and it was priced at $27,xxx if I paid cash or $29,xxx if I financed at 0%. What idiot can't see that? Ray Charles can see that for crying out loud...lol.

I more or less rule out any dealership that doesn't openly list a price. Of course that's always just the starting point for negotiation but at least there's a number.

[3drian]

Originally posted by soloracer
Some of the recent tactics I have heard about make me shake my head. For example:

1) Dealership insists on a deposit be put down before talking about price on any vehicles. There is a domestic dealership here that works that way.

2) Refusing to quote vehicle prices over the phone, e-mail or fax. Insist that you must come to the dealership to talk prices



I do not get that either, a couple of months ago I had a salesman text me, and I showed interest on a car that was at another dealership but the same owner. The guy told me I would need to put a deposit down in order to get a price, I said that was nonsense and that I was no longer interested.

why would you put money down to find out the price? F that

I would love if they can send me quotes or prices over text or email makes my life easier

[Strider]

Originally posted by 3drian
I do not get that either, a couple of months ago I had a salesman text me, and I showed interest on a car that was at another dealership but the same owner. The guy told me I would need to put a deposit down in order to get a price, I said that was nonsense and that I was no longer interested.

why would you put money down to find out the price? F that

I would love if they can send me quotes or prices over text or email makes my life easier

When I was buying my car and mass spammed about 5 or 6 dealers in Edmonton & BC, I had a few that wouldn't give me prices without a deposit and to some extent, I can see why.

If Dealer A gives me a quote, I'll go to Dealer B and tell them to beat it. Dealer B gives me a better quote, and I take it back to Dealer A, or to Dealer C.

So now you're using their quotes as leverage and they'll lose your business, or end up selling you a car at a much lower price. Lose lose for them.

[msommers]

My boss was telling me when he bought his Ford, he sat in a coffee shop and emailed all the dealerships in AB with the exact truck he wanted and that he had cash for whoever was the cheapest. Got enough responses and just bought the cheapest one :rofl:

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by Strider


When I was buying my car and mass spammed about 5 or 6 dealers in Edmonton & BC, I had a few that wouldn't give me prices without a deposit and to some extent, I can see why.

If Dealer A gives me a quote, I'll go to Dealer B and tell them to beat it. Dealer B gives me a better quote, and I take it back to Dealer A, or to Dealer C.

So now you're using their quotes as leverage and they'll lose your business, or end up selling you a car at a much lower price. Lose lose for them.

Yeah, but that's where you really have to market your potential as a quick turnover customer.

Nothing better than a customer who already knows what he/she wants and what they'll pay for it.

Let the stealership chumps figure out the bottom line; that's their job.

They're just used to running their play-by-play and tactics on customers that it wouldn't feel right to them unless they at least tried to make a rube out of you :rofl:

[killramos]

Originally posted by Strider


When I was buying my car and mass spammed about 5 or 6 dealers in Edmonton & BC, I had a few that wouldn't give me prices without a deposit and to some extent, I can see why.

If Dealer A gives me a quote, I'll go to Dealer B and tell them to beat it. Dealer B gives me a better quote, and I take it back to Dealer A, or to Dealer C.

So now you're using their quotes as leverage and they'll lose your business, or end up selling you a car at a much lower price. Lose lose for them.

Cost of doing business. If customer offers a number that is below what the dealer is comfortable with then they should say no.

Other dealer can sell the car at the loss.

This would all be prevented if dealers would just list the cars at reasonable prices in the first place. But no, they want to play games. Well sometimes they get burned in their games. I have no sympathy.

I was able to negotiate the price of my GTI down SIGNIFICANTLY by offering to pay cash. The reason? They had 5 previous crackheads get turned down for financing on the car. It was just sitting on the lot to long. So when i said i will pay X dollars cash all in for the vehicle if you can have it ready for pickup ( in lethbridge ) in 3 days. They were ecstatic.

[spikerS]

when I went hunting for my truck, I emailed about 15 different dealerships, stating what I wanted, and I wanted their price. I also let them know I was shopping across brands and dealers.

I think I got maybe 3 or 4 emails back.

Once I did find my truck by going to the dealer, I called around to a bunch of other Ford dealers and spoke to the salesmen there, and had great success. told them what truck i was buying, but wanted a different color, and if they could get me it with the same options for the same or better price, I would come buy it from them instead.

The second way is most definitely they way I will shop for my next vehicle. Way better results, and actually had salesmen that were hungry for a sale.

[heavyD]

I also now only go through email to save time and BS. For example if it's a Ford car you are looking at it build your car and at the end send the email quote and select the local dealers you want to deal with. Do your homework on the dealer invoice price and available rebates pick a lowball price to start and tell them you want "this" car for "this" price and go from there. You will see some variance from dealer to dealer and some will be able to move more based on allocation, etc.

[Masked Bandit]

This is going to sound almost fake but I'm in the middle of this RIGHT NOW...lol.

I responded to a dealer add regarding a specific vehicle (stock number and everything). I stated that there is an exact match at another shop and they were asking $xx,xxx, so what is your price? The response I got was "Well, you can make an offer".

Sure, I could also stick my wiener in a meat grinder, but that's not going to happen either.

[JRSC00LUDE]

My friend just bought an SRT Grand Cherokee. He put it out for tender to three dealerships saying this is what I want, in this colour, here is who you're pricing against, prices are due Friday and I'll buy from the lowest bidder.

Worked great.

[Strider]

Originally posted by rx7boi
Yeah, but that's where you really have to market your potential as a quick turnover customer.

Nothing better than a customer who already knows what he/she wants and what they'll pay for it.
Exactly this. Which is why nobody wants to give you a written quote that you can shop around with.


Originally posted by killramos
This would all be prevented if dealers would just list the cars at reasonable prices in the first place. But no, they want to play games. Well sometimes they get burned in their games. I have no sympathy.
True, but the way they play now, they can sell at their bottom line to educated buyers but occasionally get an inflated value out of chumps like Mar.

I ordered my BMW at a time when they couldn't keep them on the lot and allocations were 3-4 months out. I talked to the local dealer and they offered me $1200 off due to a referral (normal customers get $500 off). Understandable though, if you have a steady stream of people filling your allocations at full price, why mark it down at all?

But I left and did my homework, saw that people out East had gotten 7.5% off MSRP. I based my number on that and emailed 5-6 dealers -- here's the exact specs I want + all weather floor mats, first one to quote me under $60k wins.

Most dealers wouldn't even discuss price without a deposit. Finally one dealer in Edmonton contacted me on the phone and said $59,995 but needed a deposit. So 10% went on my CC and signed contracts went through email. Straight forward, no BS.

Of course the local dealer followed up with me a few days later, and I told them I bought one and the price. They gave me the song and dance -- show us the quote and we'll see if we can beat it. Could I have saved a couple hundred extra dollars? Maybe, but I hate playing those games.

[shakalaka]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
My friend just bought an SRT Grand Cherokee. He put it out for tender to three dealerships saying this is what I want, in this colour, here is who you're pricing against, prices are due Friday and I'll buy from the lowest bidder.

Worked great.

Can you tell me which dealership he went with and what they did for him in the end? PM if necessary. I am looking at that exact vehicle and trying to shop around for the best deal.

[JRSC00LUDE]

It wasn't in Calgary Shakalaka, two in Saskatoon and one in Edmonton.

The Jeep is awesome FYI! :thumbsup:

[JRSC00LUDE]

Getting a fair deal is important but, so is getting what you want with a proper level of service.

I don't see the point of getting your panties in a knot over 1-2% to be honest, if you're getting what you want and being treated right. It's the same with houses, if you're spending 4-5-600k+, are you really going to walk away from the perfect place over 5 grand? People are funny.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Getting a fair deal is important but, so is getting what you want with a proper level of service.

I don't see the point of getting your panties in a knot over 1-2% to be honest, if you're getting what you want and being treated right. It's the same with houses, if you're spending 4-5-600k+, are you really going to walk away from the perfect place over 5 grand? People are funny.

Pretty much. I can't count the number of house deals I have seen fall apart because of 2-3K difference in price.

really anything under $12k difference on a $500k house is negligible, and really not worth haggling over. That amount in a mortgage over 25 years is sweet fuck all.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by spikerS


Pretty much. I can't count the number of house deals I have seen fall apart because of 2-3K difference in price.

really anything under $12k difference on a $500k house is negligible, and really not worth haggling over. That amount in a mortgage over 25 years is sweet fuck all.

Only if you're immediately rolling it all into your next home. I can't imagine selling my house, and only have say $90g in my bank account while looking for a new one instead of $102g. just because I didn't feel like haggling.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Only if you're immediately rolling it all into your next home. I can't imagine selling my house, and only have say $90g in my bank account while looking for a new one instead of $102g. just because I didn't feel like haggling.

it only matters if you want it in your bank account. Most of the time you sell one, and buy another, so that 12k becomes negligible.

even if you don't buy another house, that 12k is not 12k any more once fees and any other deductions happen.

And I guess I could have been more clear and stated that my statement was geared more towards buyers.

[Strider]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Getting a fair deal is important but, so is getting what you want with a proper level of service.

Blah. I'd welcome a day when dealerships are nothing but manufacturer owned test drive and servicing facilities and you can order your car online or through a kiosk at the dealership.

Just look at how useful Zhariak's absolute loyalty to his dealership/sales advisor is on his $100k lemon.

[FullFledgedYYC]

I will have to comment on this when I no longer work with a dealership. Some of the ways guys on here think they are "beating the dealers" is hilarious.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by FullFledgedYYC
I will have to comment without providing details just to make myself sound smarter in a way nobody can disprove.

FTFY.

Also, I don't know about those other guys, but I'm not looking to "beat" anyone, I'm just looking to buy an item without feeling like I get taken advantage of. I can tell you for sure, I'm 100% successful at that. I've felt very good after my last two new vehicle purchases.

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Getting a fair deal is important but, so is getting what you want with a proper level of service.

But sometimes getting that fair deal is the best indicator of the service you can expect in the future. I wouldn't be too optimistic about a dealer that was playing games or unwilling to deal with me in the beginning.

[shakalaka]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
It wasn't in Calgary Shakalaka, two in Saskatoon and one in Edmonton.

The Jeep is awesome FYI! :thumbsup:

Did he happen to end up buying from the Edmonton one? Cause that would work as well since that's where I am. Let me know if you can help in any way. Thanks!

[max_boost]

The dealers want more customers like mar lol

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by max_boost
The dealers want more customers like mar lol

Most customers are like Mar, no offense Mar. A good deal is so subjective to so many people.

When I quote beyonders I reduce the admin, do a small percentage over invoice and leave it at that. if there are rebates, I make sure to incorporate those into the deal as well. With that being said I've tried offering deals like that to less educated customers and they don't get it, they still think they're getting taken advantage of so all one can do is negotiate off payment, it's how they view car buying and that's what works for them.

[FullFledgedYYC]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow


FTFY.

Also, I don't know about those other guys, but I'm not looking to "beat" anyone, I'm just looking to buy an item without feeling like I get taken advantage of. I can tell you for sure, I'm 100% successful at that. I've felt very good after my last two new vehicle purchases.

I know coworkers and even my GM browse this forum, therefore I am not going to get into anything.

As long as you are happy that's all that matters really, it's win-win for you and the dealer.

[revelations]

Has anyone tried purchasing a new vehicle from a different province? The cost difference is staggering sometimes.

Apparently the markup on Trucks is far higher in AB than in BC for eg. :dunno:

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by FullFledgedYYC
I will have to comment on this when I no longer work with a dealership. Some of the ways guys on here think they are "beating the dealers" is hilarious.

I am interested in hearing your opinion as some things highlighted in this thread have been endorsed by people who worked directly in the car sales profession.

I'm thinking that perhaps you believe there are false assumptions made by the consumers?

[FullFledgedYYC]

Originally posted by rx7boi


I am interested in hearing your opinion as some things highlighted in this thread have been endorsed by people who worked directly in the car sales profession.

I'm thinking that perhaps you believe there are false assumptions made by the consumers?

Basically, yes. The big thing is people who have said "if you do this, you will get the best deal" and it's dead wrong....

[J.M.]

Originally posted by FullFledgedYYC


Basically, yes. The big thing is people who have said "if you do this, you will get the best deal" and it's dead wrong....

Please explain how you get the best deal.....

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Anyone watching W5 on hidden dealer fees in Calgary? It's on CTV right now.

[FullFledgedYYC]

Originally posted by Twin_Cam_Turbo
Anyone watching W5 on hidden dealer fees in Calgary? It's on CTV right now.

Saw this last night, it legit makes my blood boil. All these dumb fuckers at other dealerships make all of us look bad. Post delivery inspection? That guy just had no idea what he was talking about... And then he says they are gifting the block heater even though it's a line item, retard.

But, then I have to think maybe the W5 guy is stupid. Perhaps they left it as a line item for 250, but then added 250 to the discount line. That's half the problem with the industry, customers are so concerned with not getting screwed and getting the best deal that sometimes their logic and reasoning is completely lost. All the guys in this video though, I really hope they quit the business after this.

[snowcat]

Watch online

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/w5/most-new-car-dealerships-fail-mystery-shopper-test-calgary-survey-1.2300369

[eglove]

^ That is embarrasing

[C_Dave45]

Just watched this.
Looks like they're all a bunch of lying crooks, right from the minister, all the way down to the lowly sales person. All in cahoots with each other.
Last time I leased/bought new was in 2004 and as expected, got shafted by the dealer there too.

I'll never buy new again. At best will be a vehicle that is a couple of years old, with a good chunk of the depreciation already taken off.

Although it would be fun to just walk into these guy's offices, and the second they started with an "extra", quote the laws and get up and walk away.

[FullFledgedYYC]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
Just watched this.
Looks like they're all a bunch of lying crooks, right from the minister, all the way down to the lowly sales person. All in cahoots with each other.
Last time I leased/bought new was in 2004 and as expected, got shafted by the dealer there too.

I'll never buy new again. At best will be a vehicle that is a couple of years old, with a good chunk of the depreciation already taken off.

Although it would be fun to just walk into these guy's offices, and the second they started with an "extra", quote the laws and get up and walk away.

Therein lies the problem, it's not against the law. You can quote laws all day, it's not illegal. The advertisements that do not include the extra fees, that is illegal. Having extra fees? That's legal.

[FraserB]

The biggest problem with the survey is they fail to mention how many of the 19 dealers that "failed" actually had terms and conditions attached to the ads in terms of fine print.

If you go look at a car and don't read the fine print that is on the bottom of all those nice posters, the problem is you and not the dealer. t's not hard to buy a car without being taken advantage of, but it takes effort on the buyer's part and it seems like a lot of people don't want to put that effort in.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by FraserB
The biggest problem with the survey is they fail to mention how many of the 19 dealers that "failed" actually had terms and conditions attached to the ads in terms of fine print.

If you go look at a car and don't read the fine print that is on the bottom of all those nice posters, the problem is you and not the dealer. t's not hard to buy a car without being taken advantage of, but it takes effort on the buyer's part and it seems like a lot of people don't want to put that effort in.
Yep, I had mentioned this in Mar's thread when he brought up the W5 segment.


Originally posted by Disoblige
The newspaper ads they looked at all had stars (*) or footnotes for them that they did not bother to mention except the Ford ad. Misleading and sneaky for sure, but still not that difficult to spot. AMVIC is pathetic no doubt though.

[Redlyne_mr2]

It's all on the contract and bill of sale that the customer signs, I don't get how people over pay unless they're lazy and don't read what they're signing.

[3drian]

Originally posted by snowcat
Watch online

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/w5/most-new-car-dealerships-fail-mystery-shopper-test-calgary-survey-1.2300369

Wow that makes me mad, I dont want to ever visit a dealership again.
so many hidden fees! the whole charge for a block heater, nitrogen and what not is BS

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
It's all on the contract and bill of sale that the customer signs, I don't get how people over pay unless they're lazy and don't read what they're signing.

People simply don't want to put any effort in, they want the best price handed to them and then they can feel justified when they feel they get taken advantage of. Its the same way this “news” story will be treated. Treat it as gospel and not do any research into understanding it to justify people's indignation.

[revelations]

Its the same reasons why scam emails, scam phone calls and scam sellers exis - far too many people put out ZERO effort to educate themselves and just give money away - especially with major purchases.

[rage2]

Out of curiosity Ryan, is the mandatory PDI fee legal? While I've been able to negotiate it off, some people says the dealer won't sell you the car without a PDI fee.

[toshi45]

Originally posted by snowcat
Watch online

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/w5/most-new-car-dealerships-fail-mystery-shopper-test-calgary-survey-1.2300369


Good reporting..As these types of stories are never out there.

T&T, is the worst with their pricing.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
It's all on the contract and bill of sale that the customer signs, I don't get how people over pay unless they're lazy and don't read what they're signing.

Because people are idiots with contracts. Just look at how so many people complained about 3 year phone contracts, the government has to step in. :nut:

[FullFledgedYYC]

Originally posted by rage2
Out of curiosity Ryan, is the mandatory PDI fee legal? While I've been able to negotiate it off, some people says the dealer won't sell you the car without a PDI fee.

The dealer is charged freight, they have to pay the tech for the PDI inspection.

Nothing in the industry is mandatory, we can just present it to you differently. Don't want to pay PDI? Sweet, I'll take it off the quote, but it's coming out of the gross of the car, so your "discount" is now less.

Look at it this way, if you asked for 2 grand off a car and that left me with about 500 bucks profit and THEN you said you didn't want to pay freight and pdi.... that's not happening. You are either paying it, or your discount is coming down. It doesn't matter which pot it comes out of, at the end of the day the profit margin is the profit margin.

[msommers]

Hence why out the door pricing is the only way to negotiate.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by rage2
Out of curiosity Ryan, is the mandatory PDI fee legal? While I've been able to negotiate it off, some people says the dealer won't sell you the car without a PDI fee.

It's a charge over and above MSRP both to the dealer and to the end consumer. I get charged the car from the manufacturer then the manufacturer charges me freight and PDI. If I give away freight and pdi but then I've down $1605 and I need to try and make it up in the profit of the vehicle.

As Msommers mentioned out the door pricing is what a person should focus on when working a deal.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2


It's a charge over and above MSRP both to the dealer and to the end consumer.

Then it isn't really MSRP as you literally can not get the car at that price.

Again, people don't mind the pricing, its the games the companies play :dunno:

[FullFledgedYYC]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Then it isn't really MSRP as you literally can not get the car at that price.

Again, people don't mind the pricing, its the games the companies play :dunno:

So would you rather the dealer just mark up the MSRP $1,600 and not list the Freight and PDI as a line item? We can do that....

[bjstare]

Originally posted by FullFledgedYYC


So would you rather the dealer just mark up the MSRP $1,600 and not list the Freight and PDI as a line item? We can do that....

I think that's exactly what he is implying dealers should do.


Either way it's a moot point if people would just take the advice of negotiating an "all in" price.:whocares:

[killramos]

I have always believed in showing up to the dealer with a check for exactly was was agreed upon.

No adding on a bunch of shit in the finance office etc. If they come up with a number greater than the value of my check the deal isn't going to happen.

:dunno:

[sneek]

Originally posted by toshi45



Good reporting..As these types of stories are never out there.

T&T, is the worst with their pricing.

Agreed! I used to be a loyal T&T customer but I recently went to look at a vehicle with a friend and the experience was horrible. It was a sales experience I would expect from AutoMaxx or Gallery of Fine Cars. The sales guy switched cars on us and showed us an American Accord but said it was just as good and just as valuable as a Canadian car

:rofl:

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
It's all on the contract and bill of sale that the customer signs, I don't get how people over pay unless they're lazy and don't read what they're signing.

But the story is not about the "contract price" that the customer signs...it's about what is advertised in print, and then what that specific car costs when they DO go to sign that contract.

A dealer can't advertise the price of a specific model for $X and then when the customer goes to sign the contract, add a bunch of extra stuff on top. The law states the advertised price must include everything except GST. But that is not what's happening.

[Calgarian]

Originally posted by Strider


Blah. I'd welcome a day when dealerships are nothing but manufacturer owned test drive and servicing facilities and you can order your car online or through a kiosk at the dealership.

Just look at how useful Zhariak's absolute loyalty to his dealership/sales advisor is on his $100k lemon.
So you're okay with paying MSRP. If that's the case why not stop haggling a dealership and just pay the MSRP set by the manufacturer. Do you think MSRPs will actually drop?

[killramos]

Originally posted by Calgarian

So you're okay with paying MSRP. If that's the case why not stop haggling a dealership and just pay the MSRP set by the manufacturer. Do you think MSRPs will actually drop?

The "MSRP" includes a substantial cost markup I order to keep dealers profitable.

For example. Honda decides in order to recoup R&D and manufacturing costs on their new car they must recieve $ 22,000 on each sale. They decide a margin based on the projected sales volumes and expected return on investment plus projected volatility etc (unsold units, warranty repairs, recalls etc) . So Honda wants to recieve $ 25,000 for each car. Now Honda wants to encourage dealers to be profitable to keep dealers in markets they want, offer
A level of service etc.

They decide the dealer needs to make $2,000 profit on each car to acomplish this. Now the MSRP of the car is $27,000. It's up to the dealer to price the cars above of below that value to make their ends meet.

If the dealers are company owned the last markup doesn't need to be that substantial or even exist. Depending on area competition.

So yea. I think it would bring down costs. Honda looks at the big picture. And doesn't care if the individual dealers are extremely profitable.

Middle men drive up costs. Fact.

[Calgarian]

Originally posted by killramos


The "MSRP" includes a substantial cost markup I order to keep dealers profitable.

For example. Honda decides in order to recoup R&D and manufacturing costs on their new car they must recieve $ 22,000 on each sale. They decide a margin based on the projected sales volumes and expected return on investment plus projected volatility etc (unsold units, warranty repairs, recalls etc) . So Honda wants to recieve $ 25,000 for each car. Now Honda wants to encourage dealers to be profitable to keep dealers in markets they want, offer
A level of service etc.

They decide the dealer needs to make $2,000 profit on each car to acomplish this. Now the MSRP of the car is $27,000. It's up to the dealer to price the cars above of below that value to make their ends meet.
What about the cost of providing the service and the interest on the loan to stock vehicles. We could work on a order basis to eliminate the flooring cost but you would have to wait 5 months to pick up your vehicle. what about

If the dealers are company owned the last markup doesn't need to be that substantial or even exist. Depending on area competition.

So yea. I think it would bring down costs. Honda looks at the big picture. And doesn't care if the individual dealers are extremely profitable.

Middle men drive up costs. Fact.

There could be some cost savings by changing to a manufacturer wholesale and retail process however a good portion of the retail margin would continue to exist if not all. Why on earth would Honda want to go all the trouble of operating retail stores with out some form of a return for their efforts and additional costs.