The Photographer and privacy issues

[C_Dave45]

*edit*...sorry guys....gonna pull the plug on this discussion. In case it goes legal.

[spikerS]

I just would have told him to fuck off and carry on, and if he would like to indicate which of the kids he knows should not have their pics taken, you will do your best, as a courtesy, to not take their picture.

But you are right, one does not have the reasonable expectation of privacy in a publicly accessed facility. They can not stop you from taking the pictures. and even the city can't because it is a public forum. The only ones who could, would be the event organizers, and take the necessary and reasonable steps to ensure privacy with explicit instructions that photos and videos are prohibited. IMP of course, i am not a legal expert.

the flip side to this, is this husband and wife duo could make life difficult for you and the organization, and in turn, this could negatively impact your son and his experiences at these events.

[D'z Nutz]

Generally speaking, you're free to shoot anything you want without permission as long as it's public property but this sounds like it's an organized event at a private facility (unless the basketball court actually is public property)?

Ultimately I'd go talk to the head chief in charge and get it cleared with him so you're not going by any assumptions and by his word. If they give you shit again, tell them to go take it up with him because he gave you the go ahead.

[lilmira]

You didn't do anything wrong imo. Some people are just super sensitive or overzealous for whatever reason. You did the right thing by not escalating the situation. I would just calmly discuss the matter with whoever in charge and with everyone there. Tell them why you are taking pictures there and find out why someone may be uncomfortable with that. Apply your common sense and move on.

[msommers]

If the images they're concerned about are not public, then you won't have an issue. It's potentially when those images go public and you're using them commercially then you'll have problems, which doesn't seem to apply here.

I know it's frustrating but I would politely pass along where you publicly display photos and ask for them to review them there and then criticize if there is a problem still.

[ExtraSlow]

Everyone on here knows you are a good guy Dave, and so we all know your heart is in the right place, but I can see this from the asshole's point of view. They probably know one or more kids who come from those unfortunate situations you mentioned, and that's made they hyper-sensitive to privacy issues. It's too bad that led them to approaching you in an emotional and irrational fashion, but that's a normal reaction to a parent who believes they are protecting a child.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz
Generally speaking, you're free to shoot anything you want without permission as long as it's public property but this sounds like it's an organized event at a private facility (unless the basketball court actually is public property)?

Correct.

However the only one that can restrict photography is the organizer of the event or the owner of the property/facility.

Their complaint should have been directed at one of those two people and not directly at Dave.

[CanmoreOrLess]

Sounds like the husband and wife have their personal concerns over their son/daughter, which is fine. They need to be made aware of the legal rights in a public venue. On the husband note, his ego required him (wife watching and cheering on her mate) to march over like an alpha ape and confront you in a less helpful tone. In the end his "might over right" proved true, as you backed down just as he knew you would. The score so far: wife of ape 1, ape 1, Dave 1, onward to the play-offs! How is anyone going to ensure "privacy" these days in regard to photos? At a public event there is zero chance of privacy. Offer a Zorro mask to those terrified of being photographed, or is it the parents who are the real issue here. I'm sure the kids have no concerns at all and think the idea of being photograhed is pretty cool.

I'd get a letter from the organizing body and slam the fucker in said ape's face as he is in mid-march mode. Tell him you'd like to see his ID, photo it and charge him with verbal assault. On the day of the court case, be there taking photos outside the court house.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Mitsu3000gt]

You can take pictures of whoever you want unless they're on private property, then they can ask you to stop. That lady sounds like a B. The only thing I am not sure of is if it is private property, who exactly can ask you to stop, and if there needs to be rules somewhere in order to get you to stop, given that it is a crowded gymnasium - it's not like you're trying to take pictures into someone's window or something.

Maybe get some of the other parents to write consent notes for you? Or better yet, just print off a quick form they can sign with minimal effort.

[C_Dave45]

*edit*

[sputnik]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
I thought only the facility owners could ask me to not photograph (in this case the City of Calgary).

It is like taking pictures at a hockey game or concert.

The Saddledome with have their policy and the NHL or band will have theirs as well.

Just because you are permitted inside a building doesn't mean that other policies do not apply.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by sputnik


It is like taking pictures at a hockey game or concert.

The Saddledome with have their policy and the NHL or band will have theirs as well.

Just because you are permitted inside a building doesn't mean that other policies do not apply.

Is this the same thing though? I pay the NHL to attend their private event. Thereby agreeing to the conditions set forth on the back of my ticket. They have a right to what I do inside that event.

This is a public facility rented by a group. You mean to tell me that every single parent with his cell phone or tablet can't take pics of their own kids, (or anyone else that might be in the pic?) at this public place?

So at a soccer game? A baseball diamond? A city-owned field? They can tell me I can't take photographs?

[Khyron]

If I'm wearing a go pro on my head, recording everything, the only people that have a right to tell me to stop or turn it off would be the owners of the facility I'm in (Ie, the manager of a McDonalds or the management at the Saddledome). The other spectators or bystanders can put on a burka if it bothers them that much.

[Go4Long]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

So at a soccer game? A baseball diamond? A city-owned field? They can tell me I can't take photographs?

No, they can't. It falls to reasonable expectation of privacy. In a public place there isn't one, and as such they can't restrict you from taking pictures. In the case of a private event, if you have a reason to be there and it's not stated that you can't have cameras then you're still in the right unless requested by the organizing body of the event.

Could you be a dick and tell them to go fuck themselves and continue taking pictures? sure. You'd be legally right, but you have to remember that being legally right doesn't always mean you win...in fact, by making it adversarial, you're probably going to end up losing.

You're much better off to address them as professionally as possible, explain to them exactly what (and who) you're taking the pictures for. Even in your quotes on your response it makes it seem kind of odd. If it were to be me I would say "Hi, I'm Dave, I'm (insert child name here)'s Dad, and I'm just taking a few pictures of the game for myself and to share with a few of the other parents here." or something along those lines. You're giving them assurances that:

1. You have a reason to be there
2. You're not just a creep taking pictures of kids, and
3. You're doing something that other people have supported
4. You're using the pictures in a reasonable manner

I'm not saying it'll work...judging by the sounds of this duo it probably won't. But maybe it will, and if it doesn't you've exhausted all your options before going over their head. Odds are they've never talked to any of the event organizers and are just trying to beat their chest at you because they have NO idea what their rights are, or yours. In all honesty, most people don't know their rights and are just worried that all of a sudden they're going to see a picture of their kid either in an international wheaties advertisement, or some sort of strange lurker website.

[Mar]

Most people here only seem to be concerned with their rights, which I disagree with. Some people simply don't want to be found by social media and they can't exactly stay inside with the curtains drawn. I knew someone that spent every day trying not to be found by someone that was only interested in doing very bad things to her. She had to avoid all social media and stopped people from taking public photos of her whenever possible. You don't know what persons' reasonings are for not wanting to be photographed. Someone can be under witness protection or anything else, you don't know.

On the flip side it was your right I guess, and I do have a request. Do you have any photos of the 2008 national tournament for Special Olympics? My aunt took home a lot of gold medals for Newfoundland and eventually got voted Canadian Female Athlete Of The Year for 2008. Unfortunately she died of cancer before being able to accept her award and I would really like to see some photos of her during the games if you have them.

[C_Dave45]

*edited*

[The_Penguin]

I rarely shoot in public, but I've still run into issues.
If I'm photographing an event and someone asks me not to photograph them or someone, no problem. I'll even be nice and not call them a effing hypocrite if it's a Mormon drinking, or a JW at a party (yes both have happened, and more than once)

But, if someone demands I don't shoot at all, or tells me I can't do x y or z, they have one chance to change that demand to a polite request, then I tell them to pound sand.

What's wrong with people today that they can't nicely request that you don't photograph a person, and instead be an asshat and make angry demands?

I was shooting a little league game quite a few years ago, a good friend of mine was the coach of one of the teams asked me if I would do some shots for their website. I said sure. One particular parent did not want any photos of his kid published, and asked me. No problem. I made sure none of the shots on the web had that player in them. He thanked me, and I thanked him for actually asking instead of demanding.

Back in 1980something before I was even remotely serious about photography, I happened to be in my hometown in Ontario, so drove past my childhood home. I rolled down the window and raised my camera and got about 3 frames off before this guy came running out, flipping out about me taking a picture of his house.

WTF? I politely informed him that this was my home from when I was born until I was 9. And I'm just snapping a few pics for my family.
He grilled me about what years, and argued that he purchased the house in '68 when I clearly lived there until April '70. effing nutbar. Had it been in the U.S. he'd probably have a gun pointed at me,

You never know. That's why I pretty much only shoot nature. :)

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by The_Penguin
I rarely shoot in public, but I've still run into issues.
If I'm photographing an event and someone asks me not to photograph them or someone, no problem. I'll even be nice and not call them a effing hypocrite if it's a Mormon drinking, or a JW at a party (yes both have happened, and more than once)

But, if someone demands I don't shoot at all, or tells me I can't do x y or z, they have one chance to change that demand to a polite request, then I tell them to pound sand.

What's wrong with people today that they can't nicely request that you don't photograph a person, and instead be an asshat and make angry demands?

I was shooting a little league game quite a few years ago, a good friend of mine was the coach of one of the teams asked me if I would do some shots for their website. I said sure. One particular parent did not want any photos of his kid published, and asked me. No problem. I made sure none of the shots on the web had that player in them. He thanked me, and I thanked him for actually asking instead of demanding.

Back in 1980something before I was even remotely serious about photography, I happened to be in my hometown in Ontario, so drove past my childhood home. I rolled down the window and raised my camera and got about 3 frames off before this guy came running out, flipping out about me taking a picture of his house.

WTF? I politely informed him that this was my home from when I was born until I was 9. And I'm just snapping a few pics for my family.
He grilled me about what years, and argued that he purchased the house in '68 when I clearly lived there until April '70. effing nutbar. Had it been in the U.S. he'd probably have a gun pointed at me,

You never know. That's why I pretty much only shoot nature. :)

Hahaha...that's funny. The sad part is, in the case of the ball player's parent, that kid will grow up thinking "My Dad was an asshole...I have no photographs of me playing ball". Kids WANT their picture in print. They WANT to see themselves somewhere...a web site, the paper, their friends FB pages. These parents that think any published photo of their child will bring a flock of pedophiles to their doorstep are just idiots. I lump them in with Bigfoot believers and tinfoil hat wearers.

[The_Penguin]

Originally posted by C_Dave45


Hahaha...that's funny. The sad part is, in the case of the ball player's parent, that kid will grow up thinking "My Dad was an asshole...I have no photographs of me playing ball". Kids WANT their picture in print. They WANT to see themselves somewhere...a web site, the paper, their friends FB pages. These parents that think any published photo of their child will bring a flock of pedophiles to their doorstep are just idiots. I lump them in with Bigfoot believers and tinfoil hat wearers.

Yep. I actually got some pretty good shots considering I'd never done any sports photography. Many made it to their website. Gave the coach some free 8x12s of his Son pitching, and sold prints to about 3 other parents. Oh well. Whattaya gonna do?