Vacation allocation duped

[cgyITguy]

Feeling slightly deceived. I started with a new company in October who poached me from a competitor company. One of the most important factors for me was vacation time which i made clear, I needed to still be at 3 weeks/year, as well I was going on a vacation in December that was already booked. The new company said no problem on both accounts. Fastforward to April (now), and I requested a day off later this year which I figured was no big deal as i had only used 8 days. I was told I have no more vacation allowed this year as they dont allow employees to take vacation in the first year. (although i can take unpaid if i want). Not only that I only have 7 remaining days for next years vacation as i used 8 days for the December trip which they said was an exception that they allowed me. I don't know if this was just a massive miscommunication or if i was just told what I wanted to hear to come on board. I was fully expecting 3 weeks in my first year, 3 weeks in the next year and every year just as I've always had it. Not what it will end up being 1.5 weeks first year and 1.5 weeks second year. What I find odd is they have no problem with me taking time as long as its unpaid, they would still owe me the money accrued in vacation pay since day 1 anyway so why would it matter to them as long as i dont go over what has actually been earned ?

Probably my own fault for not getting this crystal clear in writing, it was just verbally implied at the time that none of that would be an issue :banghead:

[BrknFngrs]

Have you talked directly to the person that hired you? Maybe it's just a simple misunderstanding.

Also, no vacation in the first year is pretty old school; most places I've seen just let you start accruing it monthly when you start regardless of when in the year it is.

[dirtsniffer]

Ya that's annoying.

[HiTempguy1]

You said you wanted 3 weeks, you probably have three weeks accept you didn't acrue any in the "1st" fiscal year you have worked for them.

So yea, you certainly didn't do your "due diligence". If it isn't in writing, it doesn't mean shit.

But on top of that, did you specifically talk to the person who hired you? Have you filed a complaint/inquiry with HR?

And finally, why would you want to work for a.company that would f&%k you around like that? It may be time to.start searching for a different job if that is how they treat their employees. There isn't much more valuable to myself than vacation time!

[killramos]

+1

Dicking around with people vacation time, whether they have the right to or not, is a stupid move that doesn't even really benefit the company in any appreciable way.

Anywhere I have worked ( aside from hourly ) my prorated years worth of vacation ( ie start in June you get half the days, start in march you get 3/4 etc.) available the next day after starting obviously with manager discretion.

TBH i have also never been denied a time off request, probably because i don't take a half dozen sick days a year like some people do for every runny nose.

I have heard managers to other departments rib their junior guys on " well you shouldn't even be taking vacation at your age blah blah blah" imo its not funny, and tells alot of the kind of attitude they have.

:dunno:

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
And finally, why would you want to work for a.company that would f&%k you around like that? It may be time to.start searching for a different job if that is how they treat their employees. There isn't much more valuable to myself than vacation time!

Well I do quite enjoy working for the company, normally i would be so pissed off I would dust off the resume right away. The ownership that runs it is in Edmonton, I get to work in the Calgary branch which is a nice place to work, although this makes me question a few things

[JRSC00LUDE]

Just politely and respectfully discuss the discrepancy with the person who hired you, there may be a reasonable explanation or breakdown in communication between departments.

If there isn't, remain polite and respectful and take a few days to evaluate your environment, move on if necessary or remain if it's a minor blip in your estimation.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Kijho]

Everything in writing - always.

[ercchry]

You don't start off with 3 weeks from day one... you earn it through out the year. So every 6 months you would be at 1.5 weeks... which means you already used your time up to now in dec. If you used the rest now then you will always be owing. Personally i dont see the issue, you DO have 3 weeks per year... thats what you asked for, thats what you got. Would you expect your entire salary paid out for the year on day one too?

[revelations]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
they dont allow employees to take vacation in the first year. (although i can take unpaid if i want).

Probably my own fault for not getting this crystal clear in writing, it was just verbally implied at the time that none of that would be an issue :banghead:


That sounds like a bad place to work. Hope youre not planning on staying too long. Next youll be posting about how 1st years are "expected" to work unpaid OT. :thumbsdow

[spike98]

Originally posted by ercchry
You don't start off with 3 weeks from day one...

Why not, i did? Without asking as well.

OP needs to talk it out with HR. As everyone else said, generally companies aren't in the business of fucking you over or tricking you to get you on board.

IF they are screwing you, abort mission.

[ercchry]

I doubt you started with 3 weeks... depending on the date you choose to leave on dont be surprised if you owe them money instead of getting paid your final cheque

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by ercchry
You don't start off with 3 weeks from day one... you earn it through out the year. So every 6 months you would be at 1.5 weeks... which means you already used your time up to now in dec. If you used the rest now then you will always be owing. Personally i dont see the issue, you DO have 3 weeks per year... thats what you asked for, thats what you got. Would you expect your entire salary paid out for the year on day one too?

Most places are use as acrued now. It's pretty lame that this place expects you to keep vacation in the bank until you quit, but it is what is it is. I think it is within their obligation.

At my company I have use as accrued with the option to go up to 40 hours in the deficit. I like this option. I have 3 weeks vacation so the deficit allowance would allow me to take two weeks in the summer if I wanted to. If I quit there is a chance I may have some clawback on my last check due to vacation but atleast I didn't have to wait a year to use vacation

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by ercchry
You don't start off with 3 weeks from day one... you earn it through out the year. So every 6 months you would be at 1.5 weeks... which means you already used your time up to now in dec. If you used the rest now then you will always be owing. Personally i dont see the issue, you DO have 3 weeks per year... thats what you asked for, thats what you got. Would you expect your entire salary paid out for the year on day one too?

Not quite, because they are not allowing me to use it as I earn it because they want to enforce the "no vacation for first year thing" So after I have worked say 11 months, I would mathematically have a few more days this year to take, they won't let me take those until next year. Then the worst part is next year I only have 7 days left for the ENTIRE year because they say i used 8 when I first started. So basically I have 0 vacation left until October 2015 and then only 7 more days until October 2016.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by ercchry
I doubt you started with 3 weeks... depending on the date you choose to leave on dont be surprised if you owe them money instead of getting paid your final cheque
Every job I've had, I started with all the vacation available on the first day of the year. The accruals only mattered if I had resigned.

[turbotrip]

Does ur employment contract not clearly specify the number of vacation days you are entitled to?

[Pacman]

Originally posted by turbotrip
Does ur employment contract not clearly specify the number of vacation days you are entitled to?

As stated, have a look at your employment letter contract. Does it state you can't take vacation in the first year? Does it indicate how many days you have? Does it describe the policy about not being able to use vacation days until they are accrued?

If it doesn't have it in writing, then I would be challenging what you are being told.

[cgyITguy]

I just pulled out the hiring document, turns out it doesn't even mention a year!

It says: "you have up to three weeks ordinary vacation each year; no ordinary vacation may be taken during the first 6 months, including the probationary period, of employment;"

They verbally said they would make an exception to allow me to go in December which they did. Now it has been 6 months later we should be all square on that. I see nothing in here to say that I can't take vacation as accrued now!!

[ExtraSlow]

This sucks. It does appear to be very company specific. I have worked for places where you get all your vacation on Jan 1, and others where you accrue it throughout the year.
My wife had a job where she got zero vacation in her first year. That really sucked.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
I just pulled out the hiring document, turns out it doesn't even mention a year!

It says: "you have up to three weeks ordinary vacation each year; no ordinary vacation may be taken during the first 6 months, including the probationary period, of employment;"

They verbally said they would make an exception to allow me to go in December which they did. Now it has been 6 months later we should be all square on that. I see nothing in here to say that I can't take vacation as accrued now!!

you still wont have your next 1.5 weeks till your one year anniversary anyways... its still not a big deal, either you pay now or later. want time off now? take it unpaid. you'll be reimbursed when you leave the company. take it paid now? well... be ready to pay it back when you leave the company.

or suck it up and accrued your time like normal people... be grateful you get more than the government mandated 2 weeks :nut:

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by ercchry


you still wont have your next 1.5 weeks till your one year anniversary anyways... its still not a big deal, either you pay now or later. want time off now? take it unpaid. you'll be reimbursed when you leave the company. take it paid now? well... be ready to pay it back when you leave the company.

or suck it up and accrued your time like normal people... be grateful you get more than the government mandated 2 weeks :nut:

I don't really see how this makes me not a "normal" person, in fact all I'm really asking for is to be able to take vacation like a normal person. I'm not even trying to take more vacation than I have accrued, just trying to take it in a reasonable spread out fashion over the course of the year like normal people

[ercchry]

Originally posted by cgyITguy


I don't really see how this makes me not a "normal" person, in fact all I'm really asking for is to be able to take vacation like a normal person. I'm not even trying to take more vacation than I have accrued, just trying to take it in a reasonable spread out fashion over the course of the year like normal people

you've been running a deficit since dec :nut:

and now that you are "even" you are bitching about not being able to take time off for the next 6 months...

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by ercchry


you've been running a deficit since dec :nut:

and now that you are "even" you are bitching about not being able to take time off for the next 6 months...

Ya but do you normally go 6 months without a single paid day off ? Most companies don't do it this way, and it's not what I signed papers for. So I think it should be well within my right to question it.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ercchry


you still wont have your next 1.5 weeks till your one year anniversary anyways... its still not a big deal, either you pay now or later. want time off now? take it unpaid. you'll be reimbursed when you leave the company. take it paid now? well... be ready to pay it back when you leave the company.

or suck it up and accrued your time like normal people... be grateful you get more than the government mandated 2 weeks :nut:

I have changed companies multiple times and EVERYTIME I have had my vacation time available to me from day one. It is something I request and get in writing. I always get all promises in writing. I also get a lawyer friend to review my contracts after getting shafted about 12 years ago on a bonus structure.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by rotten42


I have changed companies multiple times and EVERYTIME I have had my vacation time available to me from day one. It is something I request and get in writing. I always get all promises in writing. I also get a lawyer friend to review my contracts after getting shafted about 12 years ago on a bonus structure.

you still pay for it either way! its just a god damn shift :banghead:


Originally posted by cgyITguy


Ya but do you normally go 6 months without a single paid day off ? Most companies don't do it this way, and it's not what I signed papers for. So I think it should be well within my right to question it.

ya... i do, and i have also worked with people that have gone 40 years without a day off

[killramos]

Originally posted by cgyITguy


Ya but do you normally go 6 months without a single paid day off ?

I haven't taken a day of vacation since August. Lots of people don't take regular time off in liue of bigger trips or banking for a rainy day.

Me for example if i get laid off in the next few months. I will be sure glad i didn't take a week off for spring break when that week of vacation payoff will pay my mortgage for a month.

Vacation is a tool in your belt. Nothing more.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by ercchry


you still pay for it either way! its just a god damn shift :banghead:



ya... i do, and i have also worked with people that have gone 40 years without a day off

Going six months without a day off is NBD, I've gone about a year and half before.

But 40 years? I really doubt thats true. I don't know you, or this guy, but that sounds fucking ridiculous. :rofl:

[ercchry]

Originally posted by cjblair
Going six months without a day off is NBD, I've gone about a year and half before.

But 40 years? I really doubt thats true. I don't know you, or this guy, but that sounds fucking ridiculous. :rofl:

yeah he was a crazy french man, my first boss of big boy work... they put in a policy that you can only bank two weeks, so he is now forced to take his time off... but still has 40 years banked. its his insurance policy, way too expensive to lay him off :rofl:

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ercchry


you still pay for it either way! its just a god damn shift :banghead:





Not necessarily. ...because I have gone to a company mid year and still received my 4 weeks for that year and then 4 weeks again the next. So for that half year I'm not earning them per-say but it ends up being more like a singing bonus in my mind.

[Moonracer]

Originally posted by ercchry


you still wont have your next 1.5 weeks till your one year anniversary anyways... its still not a big deal, either you pay now or later. want time off now? take it unpaid. you'll be reimbursed when you leave the company. take it paid now? well... be ready to pay it back when you leave the company.

or suck it up and accrued your time like normal people... be grateful you get more than the government mandated 2 weeks :nut:

:werd: Ya you don't get 3 weeks holidays in your first year of work and then get another 3 weeks after you've been there for a year. If you get any vacation time in the first year you're lucky.

[austic]

Originally posted by rotten42


I have changed companies multiple times and EVERYTIME I have had my vacation time available to me from day one. It is something I request and get in writing. I always get all promises in writing. I also get a lawyer friend to review my contracts after getting shafted about 12 years ago on a bonus structure.

Same deal, I have never not had access to them on day 1. Now if I left before I technically earned them they were deducted off my final pay but that was just another tool to get a bigger signing bonus at the next company.

Why would someone go 40 years without a day off? talk about being the richest stiff in the grave yard.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by austic



Why would someone go 40 years without a day off? talk about being the richest stiff in the grave yard.

some people enjoy their work? :dunno:

lots of old timer like that, in a way it was a much better attitude than people of today

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by Moonracer


:werd: Ya you don't get 3 weeks holidays in your first year of work and then get another 3 weeks after you've been there for a year. If you get any vacation time in the first year you're lucky.

I would say that statement isn't typical, if what I sign says you get 3 weeks each year. That would imply 3 weeks first year, 3 weeks second year, 3 week third year etc. (as accrued of course). I have never worked somewhere that expects you to go a full year with out taking time off.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by cgyITguy


I would say that statement isn't typical, if what I sign says you get 3 weeks each year. That would imply 3 weeks first year, 3 weeks second year, 3 week third year etc. (as accrued of course). I have never worked somewhere that expects you to go a full year with out taking time off.

um... thats actually the law... so anything above and beyond is the exception. but you still dont have a full grasp of the english language and/or math skills

3 weeks/year "as accrued" would mean that if you wanted to take a full 3 week vacation, it wouldnt be till your one year anniversary... or "no vacation for the first year" SAME THING. what you wanted was what rotten42 wrote into his contract and is a BONUS 3 weeks for switching companies... thats they only way you could take 3 full weeks this year and 3 full weeks next year

[Moonracer]

^^^Yup

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by ercchry


um... thats actually the law... so anything above and beyond is the exception. but you still dont have a full grasp of the english language and/or math skills

3 weeks/year "as accrued" would mean that if you wanted to take a full 3 week vacation, it wouldnt be till your one year anniversary... or "no vacation for the first year" SAME THING. what you wanted was what rotten42 wrote into his contract and is a BONUS 3 weeks for switching companies... thats they only way you could take 3 full weeks this year and 3 full weeks next year

You are mis-interpreting what I am saying. I never said I am looking to take a 3 week chunk at one time. I am simply looking to take vacation as it becomes earned. How are my math skills off ? If you get 15 days a year that's 1.25 earned/month. Most companies will allow you to take them as you earn them. At the end of working 2 full years that will be 6 weeks of vacation pay they owe me no matter what. All I am asking is to be able to take those 6 weeks spanned through out those 2 years.

[killramos]

Most places wont let you carry vacation year to year or have a specific policy (ie 5 days per year max carry over). So even your having 6 weeks after 2 years of working isnt correct.

Just go talk to HR they will be able to explain it to you and lay out scenarios. That's their job.

[cgyITguy]

Unfortunately there isn't an HR department. Company only has about 60 people. I have to go to one of the owners. Just want to make sure I have my ducks in a row before I do. Looking at what was in writing, I think I do.

As for the people questioning why it's a big deal. If I want to take a week vacation with friends or family later this year - I should be able to do so if I have earned the vacation for it. If I have to take it unpaid that is a lot of money I have to cover for that week off.

[ercchry]

i dont even want to get into the ethics of asking for MORE time off in your first year and how that might change your future career path :rofl:

unless of course you are in O&G and all your projects are done, and nothing is coming down the pipeline... but then again, asking for any special treatment during hard times could also be of issue...

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by ercchry
i dont even want to get into the ethics of asking for MORE time off in your first year and how that might change your future career path :rofl:

unless of course you are in O&G and all your projects are done, and nothing is coming down the pipeline... but then again, asking for any special treatment during hard times could also be of issue...

:werd: You're walking on thin ice with this one.

They might say "Oh shit, yeah our bad, you definitely get that time off", or "Huh. We're sorry you see it this way" (while jotting down your name on the first to be laid off list).

[killramos]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok

We're sorry you see it this way" (while jotting down your name on the first to be laid off list).

In which case this whole time off/vacation pay problem will sort it self out nicely.

:rofl:

[cgyITguy]

it's not so much this year I'm worried about, I can live working to October with no more time off. It's next year that is my big concern. To say I only have 7 more vacation days to use from now until basically 2017 seems wrong. When 3 weeks per year was signed in writing

[Pacman]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
It's next year that is my big concern. To say I only have 7 more vacation days to use from now until basically 2017 seems wrong. When 3 weeks per year was signed in writing

The more I read this thread, the more confused I get.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Pacman


The more I read this thread, the more confused I get.

I was just thinking the same thing.

[cgyITguy]

I'll break it down one more time as it is confusing

When hired in October of 2014. I signed on for 3 weeks of vacation every year. I had previously booked a vacation in December of that year (3 months after start date) I was told this is absolutely no problem to take it. This vacation consisted of taking 8 vacation days, that obviously i would be in debt to.

Fastforward 6 months. I haven't taken any days since, 6 months works out to roughly half my vacation entitlement for the year (as I thought). I simply asked for a day off later this year, thought it wouldn't be an issue as I would have accrued addition days by then.

Their response was that I don't have any vacation days for the remainder of this year (till October 2015). As they don't normally allow people to take vacation in their first year. In addition to that, the next year I only have 7 remaining vacation days for the entire year (till October 2016) as I used the 8 days for the original trip.

This comes at a shock to me as when I checked the hiring agreement that i signed it mentions nothing of this. So instead of the 3 weeks each year I was expecting to get. Im basically getting 1.5 weeks each year.

This is why I'm slightly perturbed by it. I'm not trying to take anything I'm not owed, just what I thought I was signing on to

[Pacman]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
I'll break it down one more time as it is confusing

When hired in October of 2014. I signed on for 3 weeks of vacation every year. I had previously booked a vacation in December of that year (3 months after start date) I was told this is absolutely no problem to take it. This vacation consisted of taking 8 vacation days, that obviously i would be in debt to.

They should have just used up the vacation days you had earned from October to December, and then the remaining amount should have been deducted off your paycheque as "unpaid vacation". So, you carried over a vacation debt to the next year?




Originally posted by cgyITguy
Their response was that I don't have any vacation days for the remainder of this year (till October 2015). As they don't normally allow people to take vacation in their first year. In addition to that, the next year I only have 7 remaining vacation days for the entire year (till October 2016) as I used the 8 days for the original trip.

So, when they say nobody takes vacation in their first year, does that mean you earned 15 days vacation but you are not supposed to use them and they pay you for those 15 days, or they expect you not to take vacation and you dont get paid out for them? If it's the later.....something isn't right.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Pacman



So, when they say nobody takes vacation in their first year, does that mean you earned 15 days vacation but you are not supposed to use them and they pay you for those 15 days, or they expect you not to take vacation and you dont get paid out for them? If it's the later.....something isn't right.

its pretty common... he just has to bank year one, then at termination of the employment he would be paid out 15-29 days depending on the date

labour standards say, yes... yes that IS how it works :nut:

http://work.alberta.ca/documents/Vacations-and-Vacation-Pay.pdf

if anyone needs ESL lessons, im not available

[cgyITguy]

I should clarify they consider a year from date started to anniversary date (not calendar date) which is fine. So in my case October to October.

The way they tried to explain it is you earn 3 weeks your first year but can use that in your second year. You earn 3 weeks in your second year and can use it in your third year.

I just find it unusual they would expect you to lose a full year of your life worth of vacations when by law you are still earning vacation pay through out it

[ercchry]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
I should clarify they consider a year from date started to anniversary date (not calendar date) which is fine. So in my case October to October.

The way they tried to explain it is you earn 3 weeks your first year but can use that in your second year. You earn 3 weeks in your second year and can use it in your third year.

I just find it unusual they would expect you to lose a full year of your life worth of vacations when by law you are still earning vacation pay through out it

law? oh... okay...


Therefore, employees are entitled to take two weeks’ vacation in each year from the second to the
fifth year of employment,

[whiteout]

What do you do for a living? There are certain professions that are exempted from the vacation time regs.

If you are not exempted, what they are saying seems to be fine, although a fairly strict interpretation of the labor law wording.

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by ercchry


law? oh... okay...



Explain how accruing vacation pay from your first day of work is not a law in Alberta ?

If I start a job and agree to x number of vacation days, work a year not using any of them, quit. You still get paid those vacation days

[ercchry]

Originally posted by cgyITguy


Explain how accruing vacation time from your first day of work is not a law in Alberta ?

If I start a job and agree to x number of vacation days, work a year not using any of them, quit. You still get paid those vacation days

im not responding anymore to this circular argument till you read the damn pdf i provided stating the actual labour laws...

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by cgyITguy


Explain how accruing vacation pay from your first day of work is not a law in Alberta ?

If I start a job and agree to x number of vacation days, work a year not using any of them, quit. You still get paid those vacation days

Yes, you get your accrued vacation days paid out. However if you remain employed, you don't get to take any vacation until your first anniversary date. So if they agreed to 3 weeks vacation to start, you don't get the 3 weeks until October, 2015 (minus what you've already taken).

A lot of companies don't do it this way, but nothing illegal about it.

[cgyITguy]

where in that document does it say you don't earn vacation pay in your first year ? If they don't want to give TIME until the second year that's fine based on the labour document, except that is not what I agreed to and not what is stated in the document I signed when hired

[ercchry]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
where in that document does it say you don't earn vacation pay in your first year ? If they don't want to give TIME until the second year that's fine based on the labour document, except that is not what I agreed to and not what is stated in the document I signed when hired

you earn it, but you are not entitled to take the time till you have worked a full year, unless the company out of the kindness of their hearts gives it to you. from what you quoted before you can start taking it after 6 months, but you fucked that up cause you took your first 6 months' worth in the first 3 months...

small company, no HR department, probably no official policies on paper then, so you were quoted the actual labour law... probably cause whoever you talked to was pissed off that you already want more time off. if it was me i'd wait till next oct, and book out the entire year at that time. sit down with your boss, explain what you want to book and be done with it. im sure at that point in time he'd have no issues giving you the time off that you have actually earned up to those dates given the letter of intent you have says you can start taking it after 6 months

[cgyITguy]

That may be exactly what i do. To be clear, I did not say there was anything illegal about what they have done, simply it was a tad shady to imply otherwise when I was hired.

[M.alex]

If you take vacation you're lazy and can be easily replaced.


Originally posted by ercchry


yeah he was a crazy french man, my first boss of big boy work... they put in a policy that you can only bank two weeks, so he is now forced to take his time off... but still has 40 years banked. its his insurance policy, way too expensive to lay him off :rofl:


I like the sound of him - we need more motivated people like that who love their work so we can get ahead!

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by killramos
I have heard managers to other departments rib their junior guys on " well you shouldn't even be taking vacation at your age blah blah blah" imo its not funny, and tells alot of the kind of attitude they have. :dunno:


I guess it depends how motivated the person is to climb whichever ladder they're on. How you work gets you places, always has and always will. You just have to recognize the people with that mindset who will reward you for it over those who will only use you up.

When i walked away from my 12 yr "career" in Gov't, I took a year off to have a good time and relax. When I started my new job it was in construction, it was purely a stop gap, literally sweeping floors/cleaning up sites and painting to make some cash after using up my reserves not working for a year as I was undecided on what to do with myself.

Never late/awol for a year and the invitation comes to move into a supervisory role, well ahead of people who had been there for years ahead of me. Three years in and I still hadn't taken a week off (odd day here/there), too much to learn/keep on top of with ever increasing responsibilites. Then before I know it, BOOM, second in command of our company overseeing all projects and day to day operations with the Owner.

Two more years later and all is great. My ability and work ethic is proven, I come and go as I please, take vacation whenever I want with no questions asked. I don't know if they "owe" me any vacation time, nor do I care. Now, I expect the same out of anyone who wants to make a significant impact. Short term sacrifice for long term rewards.

.02

[M.alex]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Now, I expect the same out of anyone who wants to make a significant impact. Short term sacrifice for long term rewards.



exactly the way it should be

unfortunately most people are lazy today and arn't willing to put in the hard work to push it to the next level.

case in point, those who whine about vacation.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
where in that document does it say you don't earn vacation pay in your first year ? If they don't want to give TIME until the second year that's fine based on the labour document, except that is not what I agreed to and not what is stated in the document I signed when hired

You should had those in writing from recruiter and HR when they gave you offer letter. I hope you didn't whine to HR like this thread because that's just bad form.

Nothing seems out of place as vacation policy goes. You should have asked for 4 weeks instead of 3 IMO but that still doesn't change your situation, much.

As everyone stated, if you have 3 weeks, that means you earn 1 week for every 4 months of work. I know there are places that are lax about this but that is not the norm. And if they are lax about it before, they probably won't be lax about it now as there are so many cheaper people on the street. Especially in IT service business where turnover could be huge.

I you are entitled to 3 weeks on starting day, someone can theoratically get paid for going on vacation just by switching job every 3 weeks. :rofl:

And if you really want vacation days, be a contractor. Come and go as you wish.

[cgyITguy]

Originally posted by Xtrema
I you are entitled to 3 weeks on starting day, someone can theoratically get paid for going on vacation just by switching job every 3 weeks. :rofl:

I'm not asking to take any kind of deficit in vacation days. Weather it's calculated as 1.25 days earned/month or 1 week earned/4 months doesn't even matter. Just looking to take the time earned. From a business point of view it shouldn't matter to them either cause the vacation pay banked is still owed either way. If the time off doesn't matter work wise (as in if major projects going on or whatever). It shouldn't matter money wise.

[sabad66]

I don't think he is whining for nothing like you guys are making it out to be.

The worst i have heard for a professional job is that you have to earn vacation on a monthly accrual basis before you take it. (i.e. 1.25 days per month. So if you've worked 4 months you can take 5 days off, 2 months you can take 2.5 days off etc)

But this is basically saying it's accrued on a yearly basis which is pretty shitty to be honest. I would be pretty pissed too in your shoes.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by Xtrema

I you are entitled to 3 weeks on starting day, someone can theoratically get paid for going on vacation just by switching job every 3 weeks. :rofl:


This is how we do it, and lots of other big companies as well. My 3 weeks for the year is given to me on Jan 1. If you start half way through the year then you get a prorated # of days. Makes me wonder now what happens if you quit before earning your days used.. maybe they claw it back on your last cheque?

[revelations]

Originally posted by Xtrema


And if you really want vacation days, be a contractor. Come and go as you wish.

:werd: I could never work for the man again.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by sabad66


This is how we do it, and lots of other big companies as well. My 3 weeks for the year is given to me on Jan 1. If you start half way through the year then you get a prorated # of days. Makes me wonder now what happens if you quit before earning your days used.. maybe they claw it back on your last cheque?

You work for a tier 1 company. Not some small 60 person IT outfit. So there is a difference.

Companies who cares are usually small outfits. Bigger ones won't as they know it may cost more to fight it then just give it to you.

And to OP, have you explained your situation to your manager? How's your rapport with him/her? Many managers will fudge numbers to help you out if you really need it. Of course, given you are also responsible enough not being a critical path during some implementation and ask for days off as well.

[nonofyobiz]

nvm. I'm just regurgitating what's already been said

[Gainsbarre]

Originally posted by M.alex


exactly the way it should be

unfortunately most people are lazy today and arn't willing to put in the hard work to push it to the next level.

case in point, those who whine about vacation.

Yeah, it's like how Ben Affleck put it here :D

JfIKzReNDF4

"A piker asks how much vacation time you get in the first year. Vacation time? [...] You want vacation time? Go teach third grade public school..."

[tirebob]

http://work.alberta.ca/employment-standards/vacations-and-vacation-pay.html

You are entitled to vacation "after" the first year of employment is completed... Not during. Sorry but that is regulation. That said, I personally try and accomadate my employees however I can as long as I am not being abused by them. If they have accrued a week off over 6 months after starting, I woud let them take a week off, but you absolutely do not start a job with a legal right to vacation time from the get go...

[Sugarphreak]

....

[M.alex]

Originally posted by Gainsbarre


Yeah, it's like how Ben Affleck put it here :D

JfIKzReNDF4

"A piker asks how much vacation time you get in the first year. Vacation time? [...] You want vacation time? Go teach third grade public school..."

Money :drool: :drool: :drool:

[CompletelyNumb]

People quoting labour laws about vacation time need to realise that those are standards. Minimum standards. Employers often give out more to qualified staff. :rolleyes:

Op: this sounds like a clear case of miscommunication. In your interview, you asked for three weeks vacation to start. You were being poached and in your mind this gave you leverage. And you're right. The problem is you implied that you wanted to have three weeks vacation per year, including a bonus three weeks in your first year (bonus, since its not "accrued"). Your employer clearly inferred that you meant you wanted to be entitled to three weeks of vacation accrual, which as its been posted many times, you are entitled to after one year by law. The problem is you got none of what you assumed was promised in writing.

Now that leaves you two options. 1) speak to the owner and calmly explain the miscommunication and hope he sides with you and gives you the bonus days, but risk him saying no and damaging your reputation, or 2) chalk it up to a life lesson. Next time you're in the position to make an offer or counter off for employment, put it all in writing clearly and get it signed.

As it stands the company is doing nothing wrong, save for maybe taking advantage of a guy that wasn't wise enough to get an offer in writing.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
People quoting labour laws about vacation time need to realise that those are standards. Minimum standards. Employers often give out more to qualified staff. :rolleyes:

Op: this sounds like a clear case of miscommunication. In your interview, you asked for three weeks vacation to start. You were being poached and in your mind this gave you leverage. And you're right. The problem is you implied that you wanted to have three weeks vacation per year, including a bonus three weeks in your first year (bonus, since its not "accrued"). Your employer clearly inferred that you meant you wanted to be entitled to three weeks of vacation accrual, which as its been posted many times, you are entitled to after one year by law. The problem is you got none of what you assumed was promised in writing.

Now that leaves you two options. 1) speak to the owner and calmly explain the miscommunication and hope he sides with you and gives you the bonus days, but risk him saying no and damaging your reputation, or 2) chalk it up to a life lesson. Next time you're in the position to make an offer or counter off for employment, put it all in writing clearly and get it signed.

As it stands the company is doing nothing wrong, save for maybe taking advantage of a guy that wasn't wise enough to get an offer in writing. of course the regs are minimum standards, and if you have no signed contract, minimum standards is what applies. Nobody is saying he couldn't have gotten more and had it put in his contract, but he didn't, so unless his employers want to be lenient, his rights are determined by minimum standards unfortunately. Not sure why that info deserved an eye roll...:dunno:

[cgyITguy]

All good now, Issue was discussed with management and we came to an agreement for what I wanted. :)

Thank you all for your input

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by cgyITguy
All good now, Issue was discussed with management and we came to an agreement for what I wanted. :)

Thank you all for your input

I don't think this need to be thread on Beyond in the 1st place. Anyone worth working for should be able to accommodate.

[adam c]

Originally posted by revelations


"expected" to work unpaid OT. :thumbsdow

In IT this is the norm as IT is considered an essential industry and not subject to OT requirements, a company could force you to work 100+ hours a week and only pay you for 40 and there's nothing you could do about it except quit

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by adam c


In IT this is the norm as IT is considered an essential industry and not subject to OT requirements, a company could force you to work 100+ hours a week and only pay you for 40 and there's nothing you could do about it except quit

While true, I'm sure you will only be tricked once, not twice.

Most good shops will pay you if hours are billable, if not at least let you take time in lieu off.

BTW IT workers are considered as professionals, not essentials. Hence OT exempted.

http://work.alberta.ca/documents/Overtime-Hours-and-Overtime-Pay.pdf

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by ercchry


you still wont have your next 1.5 weeks till your one year anniversary anyways... its still not a big deal, either you pay now or later. want time off now? take it unpaid. you'll be reimbursed when you leave the company. take it paid now? well... be ready to pay it back when you leave the company.

or suck it up and accrued your time like normal people... be grateful you get more than the government mandated 2 weeks :nut:

I got 3 weeks vacation the day I was hired on to use in my first year, and now 4 years later I take a week off every month of the year...

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Unknown303


I got 3 weeks vacation the day I was hired on to use in my first year, and now 4 years later I take a week off every month of the year...

.... enjoy working this weekend :rofl:

[birdman86]

Originally posted by Xtrema


While true, I'm sure you will only be tricked once, not twice.

Most good shops will pay you if hours are billable, if not at least let you take time in lieu off.

BTW IT workers are considered as professionals, not essentials. Hence OT exempted.

http://work.alberta.ca/documents/Overtime-Hours-and-Overtime-Pay.pdf

Is that why us finance guys get paid dick all for OT but the accountants across the hall get boatloads of it?

[adam c]

Originally posted by Xtrema


While true, I'm sure you will only be tricked once, not twice.

Most good shops will pay you if hours are billable, if not at least let you take time in lieu off.

BTW IT workers are considered as professionals, not essentials. Hence OT exempted.

http://work.alberta.ca/documents/Overtime-Hours-and-Overtime-Pay.pdf

I work in IT and know this, I've worked for companies that didn't give a shit if you worked 30 hours deploying a new network over the weekend, you were expected to be there Mon-Fri during normal business hours regardless and didn't get anything in return. I've also worked for companies who bank your hours or pay overtime, these are few and far between

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by birdman86


Is that why us finance guys get paid dick all for OT but the accountants across the hall get boatloads of it?

Certified accountants are exempt too.

But EY and the likes do ground noobs down, rarely does anyone stay there after they get their CPA title.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by ercchry


.... enjoy working this weekend :rofl:

I will since I only work 143 days in a year.

[ekguy]

Originally posted by spike98


Why not, i did? Without asking as well.

OP needs to talk it out with HR. As everyone else said, generally companies aren't in the business of fucking you over or tricking you to get you on board.

IF they are screwing you, abort mission.

agreed. I did as well with my last office job. was there 11 months till i found something else and took 3 weeks off. it was glorious!!!

[Dertz]

The place I am at, started with 2 weeks vacation, then they took it away in the new year and started paying us extra on our checks. Since they can't hold onto staff, they get a higher then normal turnover and don't want to offer it anymore, including to current longstanding employees.
Whack.
Even when we banked extra hours for vacay, those somehow got fudged up.
There are some whack bosses out there and I got one of them lol
:banghead:

[FraserB]

What industry? What they are doing is acceptable under the legislation for some areas.

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Certified accountants are exempt too.

But EY and the likes do ground noobs down, rarely does anyone stay there after they get their CPA title.

Agreed. The GF was all gung ho to stay with her big 4 company.. Now that her test is approaching she can't wait to get out of there.