I really like what the NDP is saying

[Thales of Miletus]

I like the ideas coming out of that party. Especially the idea of refining more of Alberta resources in province. More jobs and more money for the people of this province.

I could care less if Texas loses jobs as a result.

And if the NDP raises corporate taxes a few percentage points, corporations will still have the lowest tax rate in north America.

NDP for the win. :)

[schocker]

NDP has this plan called, lets spend all this money we don't have, I am guessing they would introduce a PST. The Sturgeon refinery will also open in 2017. It has been very expensive.

[oster]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
I like the ideas coming out of that party. Especially the idea of refining more of Alberta resources in province. More jobs and more money for the people of this province.

I could care less if Texas loses jobs as a result.

And if the NDP raises corporate taxes a few percentage points, corporations will still have the lowest tax rate in north America.

NDP for the win. :)

You know how much it would cost to refine oil here?? Its not practical...

[revelations]

The NDP = a pimple in the face of BC politics during the 90s.

Refining oil here sounds awesome for from the jobs side, but is a RETARDED idea from a practical and a business sense.

The NDP would be pushing this here.

http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/2013/11/refine-it-here-wishful-thinking/

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by schocker
NDP has this plan called, lets spend all this money we don't have, I am guessing they would introduce a PST. The Sturgeon refinery will also open in 2017. It has been very expensive.

It's weird.... I keep hearing folks leving criticisms of this against the NDP, but at this point they only seem like rote talking points.

The Alberta conservatives spent money they didn't have, and are increasing taxes and reducing services.

Time to give the NDP a chance?

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by revelations
The NDP = a pimple in the face of BC politics during the 90s.

Refining oil here sounds awesome for from the jobs side, but is a RETARDED idea from a practical and a business sense.



Perhaps. In a sentence, why is it a bad idea to refine our own oil before sending abroad?


Originally posted by revelations
http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/2013/11/refine-it-here-wishful-thinking/ [/B]

Didn't read the article, but please appreciate that there will be vested interests in us NOT refining our oil abroad, and they will be able to buy press.

It seems like a no-brainer to me, but please, help me understand...

[oster]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


Perhaps. In a sentence, why is it a bad idea to refine our own oil before sending abroad?



Didn't read the article, but please appreciate that there will be vested interests in us NOT refining our oil abroad, and they will be able to buy press.

It seems like a no-brainer to me, but please, help me understand...

The cost of building a refinery would not be offset by any extra revenues.

[MGCM]

at what point do the people become more important than the money?

[revelations]

Consider the Fast Ferries idea in BC - the NDP "lets spend 1/2 a billion dollars on 3 ferries (instead of a bridge) and hope it all works out"!!!.

Common sense went right out the window (in terms on engineering, logistics, long term planning) all in favour of big union labour.

The ferries were useless - carried less traffic than before, caused shore damage from the wake, etc.

500 million dollars of BC tax payer money - down the toilet.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by schocker
NDP has this plan called, lets spend all this money we don't have, I am guessing they would introduce a PST. The Sturgeon refinery will also open in 2017. It has been very expensive.

Refineries make gobs of money.

IMO you are being negative out of fear, instead of being hopeful that a different party can maximize the profit from our resources.

The PC have cut costs, and those cuts always fall on the lowest. I am done with the PC bullshit about how we have to tighten our belt for a better tomorrow, when that tomorrow never comes.

In other words, PC memes are meaningless, it is time for the people to get ahead.


Originally posted by revelations
Consider the Fast Ferries idea in BC - the NDP "lets spend 1/2 a billion dollars on 3 ferries (instead of a bridge) and hope it all works out"!!!.

Common sense went right out the window (in terms on engineering, logistics, long term planning) all in favour of big union labour.

The ferries were useless - carried less traffic than before, caused shore damage from the wake, etc.

500 million dollars of BC tax payer money - down the toilet.

500 million wasted? I am pretty sure that people got wages.

Big Unions? Which big Unions were those? 191? Too Funny.

[dubhead]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


Perhaps. In a sentence, why is it a bad idea to refine our own oil before sending abroad?



Didn't read the article, but please appreciate that there will be vested interests in us NOT refining our oil abroad, and they will be able to buy press.

It seems like a no-brainer to me, but please, help me understand...

Read a good analogy comparing refined products to why we export wheat instead of baking our own bread. Similar to Bread refined products have a shelf life were as crude can be stored indefinitely. Also like bread each region will have different tastes or in the case of refined products different standards. Bread would also be a pain in the ass to transport as which is the same as sending refined products is more difficult then crude (it is far more volatile)

Another couple reasons why it doesn't really make sense:
1. Refining is a dirty business that I say we leave for the chemical waste lands of Sarnia and the Gulf coast
2.Just one of the many Gulf coast refineries has more capacity then western Canada combined no sense in trying to compete with the capacity out there

[speedog]

Why do people continue to engage Arash2.0?

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by MGCM
at what point do the people become more important than the money?

And how do you "take care of the people" without the money? Where do you think the money comes from, the tree in the back yard? Like it or not, natural resource revenue runs this province and that's all there is to it.

[Cos]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[schocker]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
Refineries make gobs of money.

IMO you are being negative out of fear, instead of being hopeful that a different party can maximize the profit from our resources.


The Sturgeon upgrader will have a processing cost of $63/bbl, at current pricing it would not make a profit...

[ZenOps]

Bad idea to put a tarsands refinery here. Low profit, minimal job creation, huge upfront expense.

We should just ship the tarsands directly to Texas as is, sand and all. We already ship copper to China as a 23% rocky slurry as its too expensive and dirty to refine here.

Especially this year, and for as many years as the California drought exists:

Then we could conserve natural gas, and sell natgas straight to the desalination plant in Santa Barbera (which is adjacent to a natgas electricity producer, required to keep the plant running) and other "emergency" natgas power producers that will need to run this year because of low hydroelectric power output because of low water levels. By next year, Hoover dam may be half output, and the only immediate ability to create electricity is natgas as the US did not invest in Coal power plants.

Water rationing started early, but if it gets hot - California will be electricity rationing as well (Fines for having thermostat set below 25 celsius would be my guess)

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by oster


The cost of building a refinery would not be offset by any extra revenues.

I think the big one is pollution. East Edmonton is bad enough as it is :dunno:

I'm happy to ship the oil out, and for the record, WE DON'T NEED MORE JOBS, we already have more than enough for Albertans :thumbsup:

Due to the downturn, some people might have to retrain and people who should never have gotten to the positions they currently have hopefully will get sent back down the ladder to a position more appropriate to their talents.

[Cash Money Hoes]

This is a bitumen refinery that will produce Diesel just outside of Edmonton. Interesting read. Currently under construction with the project right now. This gives background on the economics of the upgrader.

http://www.northwestupgrading.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/nwu%20investor%20pres%20march%202014.pdf

[01RedDX]

.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


It's weird.... I keep hearing folks leving criticisms of this against the NDP, but at this point they only seem like rote talking points.

The Alberta conservatives spent money they didn't have, and are increasing taxes and reducing services.

Time to give the NDP a chance?

You points about the PC government spending money and increasing taxes is correct.

It's also exactly what the NDP would do… only worse. They have no place in government.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Cos
Does anyone actually read platforms anymore? Lol.

The Alberta NDP would not be the same as BC NDP. It would political suicide. They do actually want to become an opposition.

It's the same reason Liberal is in such a bad shape even financially, they are no different than PC.

[gwill]

Blame an NDP govt in another province as a reason not to elect the NDP here in AB? Yeah that makes total sense... Mulcair is a crazy lunatic in federal politics but i wouldn't let that sway my vote for here in AB.

We need an opposition party so i'll be voting NDP in the hopes that's the best chance in my riding. to get an opposition member voted in.

I can't understand how anyone can bash any of the other parties knowing all the drama the PC's have caused over the last 5-6 years or more. I have next to no faith in AB's for voting in an opposition party.. which is a sad state of affairs.

Liberals are non existent, AB party is too small to useful for anything, Wild Rose abandoned their members and ditched all they believed in when crossing their floor... so what real alternative do people have for an opposition?

Guess we'll see what happens this time around.

[speedog]

Sometimes it's better to dance with the devil you know as opposed to the devil you don't.

Wildrose might've have had have a chance this time around if they hadn't gone through all the turmoil they did in the last few months of 2014 - if they can clean up their act and come forward as a unified party with it's house in order, they might become a viable choice in the future.

[gwill]

Originally posted by speedog
Sometimes it's better to dance with the devil you know as opposed to the devil you don't.



Congrats for living in a bubble. I don't know how anyone who can read would say the PC's are the better alternative after all the crap they've pulled.

[Cos]

.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by schocker

The Sturgeon upgrader will have a processing cost of $63/bbl, at current pricing it would not make a profit...

Where did you get that from?

Sounds like the governments poorly estimated cost at the Northwest Refinery.

You have to remember that the PC are experts at maximizing corporate, not public profit.

Bitumen is a valuable product, Alberta has to get some return for the resource. Either selling it raw for a better profit, or refining it here and selling a finished product for a profit.

A barrel of oil usually doubles in value when it is refined into its various components.

Voting PC is voting out of fear. But conservative minds are not good with change. This is why the PC party is always suggesting disaster will result from asking for a fair share.

For example, you are scared that the Sturgeon Upgrader will not make a profit. But you forget about the wages earned by the people of Alberta. While the upgrader may no profit in the short term, the community a large profits.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Cos


http://shop.thechronicleherald.ca/assets/images/de_adder_mar_17_2015.png



The conservatives do understand their base.

Liberals have more tolerance to uncertainty (bigger anterior cingulate cortex), and conservatives have more sensitivity to fear (bigger right amygdala).

Therefore, conservatives are focused on preventing negative outcomes, while liberals are focused on advancing positive outcomes.

It is an unfortunate reality, that our fellow citizens are terrified of change. We have to accept when we liberals talk about change, that we are going to encounter the fight or flight response from our conservative neighbors.

[HiTempguy1]

From the refinery article:

"Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood NDP candidate Brian Mason said his party has been concerned for some time about public funds going into the refinery.

“I think it’s a mistake to get directly involved in loan guarantees and government financing of private projects,” he said.

Mason said the key is to put a royalty and tax policy in place that will provide companies the incentive to invest in refining in Alberta."

Damn, that sure sounds reasonable.

Of course, they'd probably cock it up, tree-hugging liberal hippies that they are :devil:

Edit-
Oh, but it gets so much more better!

"PC Leader Jim Prentice was unavailable for comment, but his spokesman Mike Storeshaw pointed out the key decisions on the project predate the premier’s arrival in office.

“At this time, there are contractual agreements in place for the project, and we have no intention of breaking those contracts,” Storeshaw said."

So they have no problems trying to fuck with the public sector unions, but to change contracts with corporations is sacrilege? FUCK those people :guns:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

Liberals have more tolerance to uncertainty (bigger anterior cingulate cortex), and conservatives have more sensitivity to fear (bigger right amygdala).


Of course you'd say that...you have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter!

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Of course you'd say that...you have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter!

Of course your say that. You don't read and have the brainpan of a troll.


http://2012election.procon.org/sourcefiles/Kanai_Political_Orientations.pdf

Substantial differences exist in the cognitive styles of
liberals and conservatives on psychological measures [1].
Variability in political attitudes reflects genetic influences
and their interaction with environmental factors [2, 3].
Recent work has shown a correlation between liberalism
and conflict-related activity measured by event-related
potentials originating in the anterior cingulate cortex

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


That is like saying "Well, Timmy burned his hand touching the red hot stove burner at his house... but I am sure touching our red hot stove burner here at home won't be the same"

The underlying party principles are similar; they took an otherwise healthy province with an abundance of renewable resources and decimated it in a couple of years.

I don't really understand why people think it would be different? I read the Alberta NDP party platform... It is the typical pro-union, anti-business, big spending NDP garbage they always spew.

If voters want to play with fire, they are going to get burned.

Do you always think in memes?

Conservatives memes, use fear to generate a desired response from a segment of the public.

Look at the memes you types out. Fear, scapegoating, blame, anger, fear.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
Recent work has shown a correlation between liberalism
and conflict-related activity measured by event-related
potentials originating in the anterior cingulate cortex

That's your evidence? You sure you don't want to include a wikipedia reference in there too? :rofl:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


That's your evidence? You sure you don't want to include a wikipedia reference in there too? :rofl:

Like I said, "you don't read". I provided a PDF. If you would like I am sure I could find many related peer reviewed studies for you.

When a person makes an assertion on a blog. I read up on their POV before I respond.

You seem to discount what a person says, and then ask them to prove it.

That is the difference between a person that wants to understand, and a person who doesn't want their false reality shattered.

Even if you do have a conservative mind, you must realize that the Conservative party is not serving your conservative interests. They are serving corporate interests, which is against the public interest.

Corporations should only have a fair a level playing field. Granting special privileges to corporations is socialism for the rich.

[Thales of Miletus]

This thread is getting a little pissy. Perhaps I can get it back on track.

There is a saying that says "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst" It is wise as it is useful.

The saying combines the conservative principle of being prepared and careful. With the liberal philosophy of living with joy and happiness.

However political strategist break that saying in two by inserting fear. And I think many people will realize that anytime anyone mentions doing better for the province, the PCs will respond by speaking of doom and gloom.

But the PCs also appeal to people belief in preparing for the worst. The PC will say, "we have to bite the bullet today, in order to ensure a better tomorrow". However, while it is a good and wise strategy, the PC are only paying lip service. I don't see the PC's investing properly with the money that is saved today. They don't invest in education, or health, or society as a whole.

On the flip side, I do not believe that the NDP will be sunshine and unicorn farts. Gleefully foolish with our provinces future. However if they are not as expected, we vote them out. That is how you ensure that a political party serves the public trust. You vote.

Continually electing a party that continually fucks up, just tells them that they can continue doing the same old thing.

[16hypen3sp]

What the province needs is spending cuts. Real spending cuts. Not the kind that Jimmy came up with.

Who belongs to a union on this forum? Do your leaders tell you guys the same thing at your meetings? "Only vote NDP!"

Like c'mon… how in bed are unions and the NDP going to be if the dippers win the election? I only see more problems. More bureaucrats wallets will only get fatter.

We need less problems, not more.

[revelations]

As much as I loathe the NDP - I think the NDP would do better than the PCs personally.

4 years of shaking things up towards a centrist movement in this province would help tremendously. Vote liberal or AB party in the next elections around 2020.

[Nitro5]

My experience with the NDP is a lot of tax and spend and instead of cosying with big business, it's big Union.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
What the province needs is spending cuts. Real spending cuts. Not the kind that Jimmy came up with.

Who belongs to a union on this forum? Do your leaders tell you guys the same thing at your meetings? "Only vote NDP!"

Like c'mon… how in bed are unions and the NDP going to be if the dippers win the election? I only see more problems. More bureaucrats wallets will only get fatter.

We need less problems, not more.


This ^^^^ is what I was talking about when I suggested people think in memes.

You don't enact austerity during downturns. That simply makes things worse. Economics 101. Government is supposed to save during the boom, which the PC's didn't, and spend on infrastructure during slow economic times.

Without Unions there would be no developments Tarsands, or Refineries. Unless you think you can go pull a bundle or even tie a bowline out of high school, you need training.

Yes there are negatives in unions, but there are a entire group of benefits that you currently enjoy because of them.


Originally posted by Nitro5
My experience with the NDP is a lot of tax and spend and instead of cosying with big business, it's big Union.

Comparing BC NDP to the Alberta NDP, is like comparing Alberta Conservatives to the Texas Tea Party. Apples and Oranges.

Would you be willing to give up every right unions earned for you? To go back to sweatshop working conditions?

[revelations]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
Comparing BC NDP to the Alberta NDP, is like comparing Alberta Conservatives to the Texas Tea Party. Apples and Oranges.



Must be some good crack you're smoking since the NDP is fully integrated provincially and federally. :dunno:

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by revelations


Must be some good crack you're smoking since the NDP is fully integrated provincially and federally. :dunno:

An Albertan is different than a person from B.C.

You would have to have lived in B.C. to understand what I mean.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
What the province needs is spending cuts. Real spending cuts. Not the kind that Jimmy came up with.

Who belongs to a union on this forum? Do your leaders tell you guys the same thing at your meetings? "Only vote NDP!"

Like c'mon… how in bed are unions and the NDP going to be if the dippers win the election? I only see more problems. More bureaucrats wallets will only get fatter.

We need less problems, not more.

How unions negatively affect you, or virtually anyone on Beyond is "beyond" me. It seems like there is a whole bunch of angst on here about the public sector being paid properly.

But, you know, you would actually have to read some papers or do a little digging yourself to understand these things :rolleyes:

Why do you equate politicians, management, and bureaucracy with unions? What have they ever done to you?

Seriously, give some info. I'd love to see it. The PCs scapegoat unions, while it has been made clear that without factoring in public service MANAGEMENT, we are paid equal or less than equivalent private sector.

So if you have a problem with the public sector, thats cool. If you have a problem with bureaucracy, layers of wasteful management, cronyism, and career politicians who earn too much, I get that too.

But it isnt the front-line worker who is getting rich. As I've said elsewhere, in any union I've been a part of, there is nothing stopping management from firing bad employees or trimming the fat. Blame management/politicians.

[HiTempguy1]

Has there EVER been a successful NDP government in Canada? I think that would be some interesting data to see.

And at the end of the day, the WildRose say they'll chop the shit out of public sector management, which I am all for.

[revelations]

Yes I did live in BC thanks, for 26 years. Never again.

In Canada, the NDP is NDP, they stand for unions, social issues. You can see the results of their tenure in their respective provinces.

Ont. and BC both paid the price - not that the successive governments were much better.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by revelations
Yes I did live in BC thanks, for 26 years. Never again.


I can't understand how anyone would not want to live in B.C. ?

But to each their own.

I look at Rachel Notley. A lawyer who represented workers against WCB and fought for workers safety.

And I compare her with Prentice. As a lawyer, he has worked in physical property rights including relocations, and defending corporations against environmental protection suits.

One seems to represent citizens, one seems to represent corporations.

p.s. Union bashing seems to be a hobby of people who never belonged to one. But when I ask people if they would give up all the benefits they have gained from Unions, they never answer.

[oster]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


I can't understand how anyone would not want to live in B.C. ?

But to each their own.

I look at Rachel Notley. A lawyer who represented workers against WCB and fought for workers safety.

And I compare her with Prentice. As a lawyer, he has worked in physical property rights including relocations, and defending corporations against environmental protection suits.

One seems to represent citizens, one seems to represent corporations.

p.s. Union bashing seems to be a hobby of people who never belonged to one. But when I ask people if they would give up all the benefits they have gained from Unions, they never answer.

You dont understand a lot of things.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus


I can't understand how anyone would not want to live in B.C. ?

But to each their own.

I look at Rachel Notley. A lawyer who represented workers against WCB and fought for workers safety.

And I compare her with Prentice. As a lawyer, he has worked in physical property rights including relocations, and defending corporations against environmental protection suits.

One seems to represent citizens, one seems to represent corporations.

p.s. Union bashing seems to be a hobby of people who never belonged to one. But when I ask people if they would give up all the benefits they have gained from Unions, they never answer.

I've been a member of many unions - IAMAW, PPWU, CUPE, etc. Only one that applied a modicum of common sense was the IAMAW (during my tenure at AirCanada as a turbine mechanic) - rest were worse than useless.

BC is gorgeous from a natural point of view - thats it. Nothing else appeals to me. Great place to vacation, or to live 3 months of the year.

[Cos]

.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by dork


You dont understand a lot of things.

Children. ^^^

[JRSC00LUDE]

Chump here starting hating on me because I bashed Unions. Apparently my 12 years in one including sitting on Committee, transitioning a branch of Executive Government into a Crown and writing/bargaining/enforcing its first Collective Agreement isn't valid enough experience for my hatred of them.

Children.

Edit - and yes, I gave up all the "benefits" of a Union happily for a better life in the private sector but, that too invalidates my opinion because it doesn't match his.

:nut:

[JRSC00LUDE]

Prepare for the ensuing diatribe......

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Chump here starting hating on me because I bashed Unions. Apparently my 12 years in one including sitting on Committee, transitioning a branch of Executive Government into a Crown and writing/bargaining/enforcing its first Collective Agreement isn't valid enough experience for my hatred of them.

Children.

Edit - and yes, I gave up all the "benefits" of a Union happily for a better life in the private sector but, that too invalidates my opinion because it doesn't match his.

:nut:


Your experiences in your union are not the same as everyone elses experiences in theirs.

Your need to bash something, that no longer involves you, indicates that you are bitter or have feelings of guilt.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Aaaaaaannnnd the hypocrisy show fires up for another season. This guy spouts off that no one here is open minded and yet he can't accept any point of view that isn't his own. You're <insert laundry list of adjectives here> if you don't agree with him. You're just plain WRONG if you don't tow his line. :dunno:


Psycho-analyze this - Grow up you fucking baby.

Edit - you could be an engaging person to communicate with if you weren't so fucking arrogant and close-minded.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Aaaaaaannnnd the hypocrisy show fires up for another season. This guy spouts off that no one here is open minded and yet he can't accept any point of view that isn't his own. You're &lt;insert laundry list of adjectives here&gt; if you don't agree with him. You're just plain WRONG if you don't tow his line. :dunno:


Psycho-analyze this - Grow up you fucking baby.

Edit - you could be an engaging person to communicate with if you weren't so fucking arrogant and close-minded.

LOL. Looks like it may be the guilt thing. :)

Perhaps you should refrain from posting when you have been drinking.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[revelations]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

I hate to say it, but people in Alberta have been pretty sheltered when it comes to horrible governments. I still remember BC scandals when I lived there... the NDP premier and his underground casino, moving debt into crown corporations so it won't show up on the budget, taking all the ''profits'' out of BC Hydro and ICBC that would normally be used for upkeep and growth, and normally the profit would be returned as a cheque to the people, the Fast Cat ferry scandal, the 16.5% corporate tax that drove out companies, the 10% unemployment rate, depleting the forestry sustainability fund (basically the same idea as the heritage fund) by naming projects so they sound like trees... people here have no concept of how bad the NDP really are.

My god, the memories. I used to yell at my radio during my Vancouver morning commute when news like this was announced. Klein used to say the BC NDP was the best thing that ever happened to AB.

[LOLzilla]

They have proposed some damned good ideas. Unfortunately their branding won't fly here. Merge with the Alberta party and they'd stand a much greater chance of getting some votes.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[HiTempguy1]

I don't think corporate income tax across the board being raised 1% is unreasonable do you?

People are getting pay cuts in Alberta but our taxes just went up; why is it only the people that must feel the squeeze?

Also, the purpose of raising the corporate tax rate is because it is currently politically viable, and you have to take these changes while they are favoured due to the fact it could be argued industry (AND the higher income earners in this province) have not been paying enough for the benefits they get by being here :dunno:

At the same time, cuts definitely do need to be made. As I've mentioned previously, WildRose's pledge to cut management positions and politicians perks gets me hard ;)

[Cos]

.

[g-m]

It would be like electing a party comprised of thale and arash. A collection of tools with no fucking idea how things work in real life. Like having your idealistic 5 year old running a province. Cringeworthy.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Cos]

.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Cos]

.

[killramos]

Anyone who advocated for heavy corporate tax increases needs to think to themselves with a follow the buck mentality.

What do they think the corporations do with their money, money that they think should be taken in taxes? They either invest it or they pay it out to their shareholders and employees.

So they invest it? That creates economic growth, jobs, etc. Which is exactly what a "government stimulus" would do but in all likelihood more efficient than anything done by the government ( golden pensions, union inefficiencies, bureaucracy etc).

Pay it to employees? Well those employees pay income tax to the government. At a high rate.

Pay it to shareholders, ie dividends etc? Still taxed, albeit at a different rate.

Oh and the money that goes into employees and shareholders hands will in all likelihood get dumped back into the economy anyways when they buy shit.

I see very marginal net benefit to increased corporate taxes unless you are a public employee or union shill.

As people know the alberta government has had silly money handed to it over the decades. And yet they/we have little to nothing to show for it. Not much of an argument for giving them more if you ask me.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Cos
Does anyone actually read platforms anymore? Lol.



Didn't read the whole thread, but...


Does anyone actually believe election platforms anymore? Lol.

Fixed.

Anyway, in our Democratic political system (ya right), I'm voting for the least of the entitled pigs at the trough. That is , the WR, as they exposed PC corruption without seemingly little effort, They did so despite the newness of the party. Yet, the NDB and LIBS said fucking basically NOTHING for decades.

It's a shitty place to start, but climbing out of shit has to begin somewhere.

[Thales of Miletus]

People have gone on and on about how evil unions are. Then they start preaching for the rights of corporations.

These people do the opposite of what the people in unions do. They preach for the rights of corporations and diminish everyone else.

North American Corporation tax rate are lowest in Alberta. Where are they going to go if Alberta taxes them a little more?


Originally posted by g-m
A collection of tools with no fucking idea how things work in real life. Like having your idealistic 5 year old running a province. Cringeworthy.

Tell me oh wise one. How do things work in real life?

[Cos]

.

[Seth1968]

Unbelievable.

You people argue the nuances of being whipped, while you're being whipped.

There's a word for that dysfunction.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Seth1968
Unbelievable.

You people argue the nuances of being whipped, while you're being whipped.

There's a word for that dysfunction.

As my friend would say, "The Dunning–Kruger effect".

[01RedDX]

.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus



Your experiences in your union are not the same as everyone elses experiences in theirs.

Your need to bash something, that no longer involves you, indicates that you are bitter or have feelings of guilt. [/B]

So debating 101 right here.

1. Suggest he has no experience in a union.
2. Once he shares his experience in a union, suggest his experience doesn't matter or is atypical
3. Claim debate victory.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by CapnCrunch


So debating 101 right here.

1. Suggest he has no experience in a union.
2. Once he shares his experience in a union, suggest his experience doesn't matter or is atypical
3. Claim debate victory.


Hyperbole 101

Twist what is said, into what you want it to mean.

Does it ever strike you that bashing unions is a form of discrimination?

You are casting insults at not one union member, but all of them. Stereotyping 1000s of people as lazy, spoiled, stupid. etcetera.

[HiTempguy1]

From what I've seen, government can run an industry inefficiently and get away with it because the shareholders (ie us) don't demand billions of dollars in revenue.

You understand that the 1% in this world own 80+% of the wealth right? That right there shows me the 1% (and probably the 2%, and and and) take in a liiiiiiitttttlle too much.

The problem with the basis of the idea that corporations create prosperity is that the money they "pay" goes towards altrusitic things which is patently false.

They go towards things that help the person they paid or that benefits their corporation. Dont kid yourself, corporate slavery is still slavery. It just so happens that the people in charge realized that they can sustain the expirement longer by not treating the slaves COMPLETELY like crap.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
Stereotyping 1000s of people as lazy, spoiled, stupid. etcetera.
Where exactly do you think stereotypes come from? I'm not arguing anything, I just find it annoying when someone says something like "oh that's just a stereotype." Yeah true, but stereotypes don't just come out of thin air...

[sabad66]

Nothing to add except can a mod please fix the thread title? It's driving me nuts lol

[Mibz]

Originally posted by sabad66
Nothing to add except can a mod please fix the thread title? It's driving me nuts lol Just came in here to change it, haha.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Mibz
Just came in here to change it, haha.

You should have left it.

Gave me a small sense of self satisfaction seeing that.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Feruk

Where exactly do you think stereotypes come from?

Stereotyping is the first step toward discrimination.

While it may not occur with conscious awareness, it leads to an negative emotional response towards a group.

You seem to be saying that stereotype is a word that is meant to imply the average. I hope I am wrong.

Vote Wildrose if you believe in a conservative mentality. Just don't vote for the PC as that is voting for corruption.

[JRSC00LUDE]

So......every Union worker isn't lazy but every PC is corrupt. But don't stereotype or discriminate. :nut:

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus



Hyperbole 101

Twist what is said, into what you want it to mean.

Does it ever strike you that bashing unions is a form of discrimination?

You are casting insults at not one union member, but all of them. Stereotyping 1000s of people as lazy, spoiled, stupid. etcetera.

Kinda like your shots at Americans?

[Cos]

.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
So......every Union worker isn't lazy but every PC is corrupt. But don't stereotype or discriminate. :nut:

I did not stereotype, as the PC party represents itself as a single entity. Therefore I can say that a political party is corrupt, while that other political party is not. Or in words you prefer, that union is corrupt and the other union is not.


Originally posted by Nitro5


Kinda like your shots at Americans?

Those Americans that let themselves be polarized are giving up their independence. As polarized groups they lack diversity.

[Nitro5]

keep fucking that chicken

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Johnny Cluck Cluck
keep fucking that chicken

Keep laying those eggs.

[tenth]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
And if the NDP raises corporate taxes a few percentage points, corporations will still have the lowest tax rate in north America.
If the NDP raise corporate tax rates 2 percentage points, Alberta's corporate tax rates would be behind BC, Ontario and even Quebec, a province not exactly known as a tax haven, and tied with a myriad of others. At 3 percentage points, we'd only be ahead of some of the crazy high tax Atlantic provinces. While Alberta is the lowest in Canada for corporate tax rates, it's not by much, and certainly wasn't by nearly as much as the personal tax rates were. A 1 percent increase would tie us (again) with BC, who had briefly dropped their rate to Alberta's 10% before increasing it recently.

At various points, 4 or 5 provinces have announced plans to come down to Alberta's rate long-term, but it's been tough for other provinces to achieve. I do think our low corporate tax rates are an important part of the reason why the province has been able to attract businesses to start-up, move or stay here (CP and Viterra being recent examples), and despite the significant cost of the current budget to my household, I'm okay with it.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
From what I've seen, government can run an industry inefficiently and get away with it because the shareholders (ie us) don't demand billions of dollars in revenue.

You understand that the 1% in this world own 80+% of the wealth right? That right there shows me the 1% (and probably the 2%, and and and) take in a liiiiiiitttttlle too much.

The problem with the basis of the idea that corporations create prosperity is that the money they &quot;pay&quot; goes towards altrusitic things which is patently false.

They go towards things that help the person they paid or that benefits their corporation. Dont kid yourself, corporate slavery is still slavery. It just so happens that the people in charge realized that they can sustain the expirement longer by not treating the slaves COMPLETELY like crap.

Wow. Yet another of the few that gets it.

This part really came to mind:


The problem with the basis of the idea that corporations create prosperity is that the money they &quot;pay&quot; goes towards altrusitic things which is patently false.

Ah yes, vested interest for profit and greed. To even start, the bankers and acrostics swim in our kid's blood. Our so called government takes our money, while the free blowjobs continue.

Fuck you.


No bankers were convicted. They got a bailout from our kid's working at McDonaldss.

I'm probably going to die soon, and I'm glad of it. I'm finding it harder and harder to deal with the ignorance of th average person. Don't get me wrong though. I see that other people are seeing the truth, but we are few and far between.

Someone once told me, "the Earth is like a boil that needs to be lanced. Except he didn't mean Earth, or animals for that matter. He meant humans of course..

Start with population control. It's not that hard.

I'm looking at you Africa.

[Thales of Miletus]

Originally posted by Seth1968



Someone once told me, &quot;the Earth is like a boil that needs to be lanced. Except he didn't mean Earth, or animals for that matter. He meant humans of course..

Start with population control. It's not that hard.

I'm looking at you Africa.

The age of enlightenment was certainly undone by television.

However a plague that only kills foolish people is unlikely.


Originally posted by tenth

, and despite the significant cost of the current budget to my household, I'm okay with it.

Think of it this way. The PC are very likely going to be elected. The PC represents corporations. So the opposition should represent the public. Therefore a strong NDP is a good balance with the PC.

[Thales of Miletus]

The NDP is up by as much as 8 points in parts of Calgary,

Freedom is on the horizon.

[oster]

Originally posted by Thales of Miletus
The NDP is up by as much as 8 points in parts of Calgary,

Freedom is on the horizon.

Are you an infirm dependant??

[cancer man]

NDP + Ontario = Failed
History will repeat itself in AB if elected.

[dirtsniffer]

Originally posted by oster


Are you an infirm dependant??

Dependant only on the government.

[JRSC00LUDE]

NDP + anything fails, they're only good for big Union and people who want the Government to get them through life.

[Cos]

.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Edmonton is obviously just more enlightened, socially conscious blue collar folk! Not like them greedy corporate dirtbags in Calgary....

It will be interesting to see what happens there though.

[Cos]

.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Edmonton is obviously just more enlightened, socially conscious blue collar folk!

Or a bunch of laid off rig workers looking to ride the government coffers.

I am disappointed though. My plan was to vote for whatever party had the best chance of ousting the PC's (and wasn't WRP) I honestly didn't think it would be the NDP.

I'm going to have to reconsider my plans.