GET OUT and VOTE!! NDP Bitches!!!

[Toma]

1) PC's ran continuous debt during RECORD oil prices that were built on the blood of the mid east with the US's post 9-11 "tour". Cut services, ran debt, insulting royalty rates and insulting "mega corporation" taxes. INFLATION ADJUSTED oil prices hardly ever get above $30 a barrel unless there is serious instability in the mid east. They could not provide for our health care, our environment, education, or kids with oil at 100 year highs without cuts, borrowing and debt.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Crude_oil_prices_since_1861.png

2) The moment oil dipped into the $50's, what was the PC's solution? TAKE from the AVERAGE Albertan. Suggest cuts. Suggest a Provincial sales tax. NO MENTION of decreasing corporate subsidy. This it what NORWAY did with similar population, and similar oil production.... EVERY CITIZEN is a crown millionaire. Every man woman and child. http://rt.com/news/norwegians-become-crown-millionaires-349/

3) “Politicians, like underwear, should be changed often, and for the same reasons.”

4) Trickle down economics is a lie. No real Economist believes it, and they all KNOW a strong economy starts with a strong middle class. Average family spends 95% of earnings in Alberta. Average multi billion dollar company TAKES BILLIONS OUT of Alberta. It only makes sense.
http://robertreich.org/post/117948294805
http://billmoyers.com/2014/09/11/a-wealthy-capitalist-on-why-money-doesnt-trickle-down/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/the-wealth-that-failed-to-trickle-down-report-suggests-rich-do-get-richer-while-poor-stay-poor-9989183.html

You know what trickles down? When a dog pisses on a fire hydrant.

GET OUT AND VOTE FUCKERS!

[Thaco]

Yep Joe ceci

[FixedGear]

Hopefully Thales will come and converse with Toma

[Graham_A_M]

^I was waiting for that :rofl: I just wish he had schizophrenia to really make this an intriguing debate.

[Nitro5]

Don't worry, Toma will edit the posts so that they suit his purpose

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Nitro5
Don't worry, Toma will edit the posts so that they suit his purpose

"Get out and vote!! NDP Bitches!!!"

Or what you'll delete our posts? :rofl:

[16hypen3sp]

And Toma makes his return.

[HiTempguy1]

There is NO WAY IN HELL it is coincidence that Toma returned on the same day Thales gets banned. I refuse to believe it.

I will give Toma credit, his ability to troll is over 9000. A tip of the hat good sir, continue Toma'ing along!

[cancer man]

NDP thinking or PC

Eye wuz jus loking round ta hood wen eye sea 2 peeple holdin handz and thy weer da same sx.
I saz mrs Okerbi dis normel? She gos Mr Okerbi tymes a changin and eye seez whuts going on wut dis wurld.
And wutz dat? Tay like eech utter tay no cuz no problems.
But if tay all go tat way no babe bee born an wee go xtinct.
Mr Okerbi it will com like jurissic parc axeuall wee geet pregant buy r selvs.
woman u reely dinkso i dink u rong.
Wee will sea Mr Okerbi lets goe hom and make us a babe..
Mrs Okerbi u craze wee old peeple and whatz yu gunna du wit dis babe.
MR OKERBI WE CULL IT OUR BABE.
dANG U TRN NASTI O i sea wut u meen mak babe tu save ta werld.

[A790]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
There is NO WAY IN HELL it is coincidence that Toma returned on the same day Thales gets banned. I refuse to believe it.

I will give Toma credit, his ability to troll is over 9000. A tip of the hat good sir, continue Toma'ing along!
This thread was made a few hours before Thales was banned.

[Toma]

$2.5 billion in unpaid royalties the PCs dont want to collect?

http://m.thetyee.ca/News/2015/05/02/Royalty-Miscalculation-Cost-Alberta-Billions/

[cancer man]

Well Toma is back i found Arash more interesting.
Bring him back as well.. my vote PC .

[GoChris]

I won't vote PC, but I know it will be useless in my riding. It was only last night I saw my first non PC/WR sign (granted I've been gone a week).

[Pacman]

Originally posted by FixedGear
Hopefully Thales will come and converse with Toma

Then Toma would have to log out of his account and into the other one.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by A790

This thread was made a few hours before Thales was banned.

Hence trolling over 9000. Toma got sick of his alter-ego Thales, so he decided to go out with a bang.

In order to fool everyone, he knew he'd have to post as Toma before Thales got banned to not raise suspicion that they are indeed one and the same.

A clever ruse. Its a conspiracy! ;)

[revelations]

Even after living in BC during the 90s, I feel that 4 years of NDP in this province will be better than 4 of continued PC debacle. I just hope and pray that enough was learned from the BC/ONT NDP debacles.

Personally, I voted for the Alberta Party as they are centrist (like the Liberals in this province).

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

Its a conspiracy! ;)

Wow.. :nut:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn222/icegberg70/19aemabpw8svzjpg_zpsq1uoujrr.jpg

[M.alex]

If there's a minority government what happens with the budget - stalemate on every issue?

[phreezee]

Even Ezra wouldn't vote PC lol.

Kac4r1yUkO4

[phreezee]

Consecutive deficits since 2009 for NDP in Manitoba despite increasing taxes.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/special/budget/budget-deficit-203344161.html

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/manitoba-government-projecting-higher-deficit-than-expected-due-to-more-spending-1.2145140

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-government-posts-580m-deficit-for-2012-13-1.1873759

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/05/02/no-end-in-sight-for-ndp-deficit-after-selingers-latest-budget

[Toma]

you want to compare the richest resource region in North America, to Manitoba? haha

CUTE!

the pcs and their evil twin, wild rose, to me are kinda like that friend that says "I'm honest, I'm honest, Im honest, I'm honest", but all he does is lie to you..... how long before you catch on? lol

Don't let the 'conservative' oxymoron fool you. there hasnt been a conservative in their midst since Peter Lougheed ~35 years ago!!!

Vote NDP!

but whichever way you hang, at least get out there and make your voices heard.

[Feruk]

I'll definitely be voting, but not for the NDP.

[Toma]

This is a proper comparison. Not Manitoba lmao!!

This is why you should vote NDP.... in case you forgot!

PS, our debt is now $12+ BILLION, it has increased since this infographic was made

http://tarsandssolutions.org/images/uploads/article_images/Alberta_vs_Norway_infographic.jpg

[dirtsniffer]

First Arash gets banned, then Thales gets banned and I was thinking things might get boring..

As for me, I won't vote based on an infogaphic.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[phreezee]

Enough about Norway. You think a bunch of under 25 year old kids, some still in school getting Arts degrees is a good comparison to the government of an EU country?

One of which doesn't even live in Alberta, hasn't graduated, and implied semi-automatic gun owners are terrorists. The party is made up of a bunch of seat warmers parachuted in and have no clue.

Since pretty much every party is going to run a deficit, I'm going to vote for the only one campaigning to cut the government fat. After a term of that, re-evaluate a potential reformed/gutted PC party.

[ZenOps]

Nation of painters and singers. Water coloured Macaroni and cheese on cardboard $1 million for every artist.

I mean, Game of thrones season one for $25 is damn good value compared to a half barrel of oil.

Its arguably is more productive and less wasteful than racing around a track 500 times with 40,000 spectators - when cars are burning up the only thing that can keep their showers running. Someday a few generations from now, they are going to be cursing the Indy 500 because they don't have the ability to take a shower anymore.

[heavyfuel]

Pro union and raising corporate taxes? Yeah I'll get right on that one.

[LOLzilla]

I'm voting NDP. Hoping for either a minority PC or minority NDP government.

[Toma]

You wouldn't want to go against the light side of the Force would you??? Yoda, Luke, Chewy, Han, and Leia would be disappointed!

http://www.nedhardy.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2010/january/star_wars_propaganda/star_wars_propaganda_4.jpg

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Toma
Han

Sorry, but Han was all about free enterprise. He didn't have any socialism in him at all.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Sorry, but Han was all about free enterprise. He didn't have any socialism in him at all.

Bullshit, he pretended like he started that way, abut always ended up HELPING THOSE IN NEED, and less able.

Putting his neck out for others. Not a selfish bone in his body, even though he wanted to come off as a bad ass lone wolf.

Silly boy.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Toma


Bullshit, he pretended like he started that way, abut always ended up HELPING THOSE IN NEED, and less able.

Putting his neck out for others. Not a selfish bone in his body, even though he wanted to come off as a bad ass lone wolf.

Silly boy.


Bullshit. He just knew when to get on the ground floor of some lucrative contracts, asides from that he was playing nice just trying to get some princess tail. He also knew the rebels would be a good hiding spot from Jabba.

[Nitro5]

Han shot first

[CapnCrunch]

If there's anything that Beyond has taught me, it's that you should always do the opposite of what Toma says.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
I'm voting NDP. Hoping for either a minority PC or minority NDP government.
Wouldn't you feel pretty stupid if the NDP got a majority though?

[LOLzilla]

Originally posted by Feruk

Wouldn't you feel pretty stupid if the NDP got a majority though?

Whats the worst that can happen in 4 years? They'll raise my taxes? Big deal.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Toma
Bullshit, he pretended like he started that way, abut always ended up HELPING THOSE IN NEED, and less able.
The Rebel Alliance was a paramilitary army, not a ragtag band of dirty Tatooine refugees... He took on Luke and old Kenobi for a crap load of money, rescued the princess for a crap load of money, and certainly didn't pay taxes on any of that income. He was then promoted to "General" which I'm sure paid really well while being tax-free. Everything after, he did for some sweet princess tail. Where's the socialism?

[Feruk]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
Whats the worst that can happen in 4 years? They'll raise my taxes? Big deal.
The worst? The NDP introducing a new strain of Ebola here in Alberta that quickly kills all non-unionized workers. Survivors see the utopia of lower class sizes, affordable housing, more beds available in hospitals, and no need for further silly elections as everyone left alive now knows to vote NDP and obey their union master. All remaining NDP supporters are now to engage in polygamy, pedophilia, and any other means to quickly re-populate Alberta.

I will, however, grant you that this is not a likely outcome...

[JAYMEZ]

Def vote out the current party.. Fuckers are bitches to anyone with a bit of money

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by Feruk

The Rebel Alliance was a paramilitary army, not a ragtag band of dirty Tatooine refugees... He took on Luke and old Kenobi for a crap load of money, rescued the princess for a crap load of money, and certainly didn't pay taxes on any of that income. He was then promoted to "General" which I'm sure paid really well while being tax-free. Everything after, he did for some sweet princess tail. Where's the socialism?

I'm sure the 2 Death Star's he helped blow to provide where full of union workers trying to support their families and we're paying taxes.

[ZenOps]

I always thought Rob Anders was what you would get if you crossed Jar Jar Binks and Kermit the Frog.

But Yoda was actually pretty cruel. Do or do not, there is no try? Damn harsh, even Wildrose aren't that harsh.

[InRich]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
I'm voting NDP. Hoping for either a minority PC or minority NDP government.

cause your stupid. Thats the only logical conclusion I can come up with...

Originally posted by LOLzilla


Whats the worst that can happen in 4 years? They'll raise my taxes? Big deal.


God your so fucking dumb, its a waste of my time to even take you seriously... But if you really wanna know... I'll tell ya.
They'll trash business's like mine right into the ground. Where I employ 21 FULL time workers. Who pay alot in taxes. I pay alot in taxes... Now... times that by thousands of other businesses just like mine all over Alberta. Imagine what will happen.

Let me tell you something. Its businesses like mine that keep our economy going strong. Where I'm creating jobs for people who wouldn't have them in the first place. I create jobs, which in turn creates wealth for the province. And let me tell you. ITS NOT EASY - what I do. Every day I gotta go door to door. thats right, like a piece of shit, I go door knocking, so I can scrounge up enough leads, so that I can flip and sell them on some type of home renovation... Ever go door to door? you should try it, see what its like, see how hard it is. Where people slam doors in your face, call you a piece of shit for disturbing them, yell at you, etc. But its something I gotta do, to keep my business going, and to keep my guys busy. Otherwise everything falls apart. I can go on and on. But your not a very smart person. So I'll leave you with this, and hope you make the right choice tomorrow.

[ercchry]

YOU'RE!

... and its a lot, not alot... but yes, continue to call people dumb

[mr2mike]

http://boereport.com/2015/05/04/ndp-stance-on-fraccing-could-have-crippling-implications-to-albertas-oil-industry/

I'll leave this right here... that Norway vs. Alberta picture is a non issue if there's no fracturing.

[Disoblige]

So, vote NDP is what InRich is saying? I wasn't sure because his post seems like reverse psychology to me.

:rofl:

durrrrr, dun vote no NDP y'kno what im sayin, they dumb as fuk, your dumb, thats all i got k..

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by InRich


cause your stupid. Thats the only logical conclusion I can come up with...



God your so fucking dumb, its a waste of my time to even take you seriously... But if you really wanna know... I'll tell ya.
They'll trash business's like mine right into the ground. Where I employ 21 FULL time workers. Who pay alot in taxes. I pay alot in taxes... Now... times that by thousands of other businesses just like mine all over Alberta. Imagine what will happen.

Let me tell you something. Its businesses like mine that keep our economy going strong. Where I'm creating jobs for people who wouldn't have them in the first place. I create jobs, which in turn creates wealth for the province. And let me tell you. ITS NOT EASY - what I do. Every day I gotta go door to door. thats right, like a piece of shit, I go door knocking, so I can scrounge up enough leads, so that I can flip and sell them on some type of home renovation... Ever go door to door? you should try it, see what its like, see how hard it is. Where people slam doors in your face, call you a piece of shit for disturbing them, yell at you, etc. But its something I gotta do, to keep my business going, and to keep my guys busy. Otherwise everything falls apart. I can go on and on. But your not a very smart person. So I'll leave you with this, and hope you make the right choice tomorrow.

You should sell your business and go work for Navigator, this is some really compelling stuff bro.

[kertejud2]

I'd rather have a recession than door knockers.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by InRich


I pay alot in taxes...

Pure number wise, maybe, but percentage-wise, certainly not. Do you pay yourself a salary or dividends? Because if you pay dividends, then you are exactly the problem with small business owners. And you ONLY pay tax on your profits, so give me a f*&kin break.

[schocker]

Originally posted by mr2mike
http://boereport.com/2015/05/04/ndp-stance-on-fraccing-could-have-crippling-implications-to-albertas-oil-industry/

I'll leave this right here... that Norway vs. Alberta picture is a non issue if there's no fracturing.
Sweet, I hate having a job :rofl:

[msommers]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Pure number wise, maybe, but percentage-wise, certainly not. Do you pay yourself a salary or dividends? Because if you pay dividends, then you are exactly the problem with small business owners. And you ONLY pay tax on your profits, so give me a f*&kin break.

LOL...X5M company vehicle bro

If Inrich is currently knocking on doors to get business, what would the NDP do to make things worse? I'll give it him credit, doing whatever it takes to stay busy.

[rage2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Pure number wise, maybe, but percentage-wise, certainly not. Do you pay yourself a salary or dividends? Because if you pay dividends, then you are exactly the problem with small business owners. And you ONLY pay tax on your profits, so give me a f*&kin break.
I love how nobody understands how dividend tax works. Here's a quick primer:

http://www.epr.ca/dividends-vs-salaries/

While dividend tax rates is lower, it's also post corporate tax, which combined *gasp* works out to the same as salary.

The difference is the differing benefits between the 2 types of income.

It's hilarious how everyone thinks that pays themselves through dividends are cheating on taxes and screwing everyone else lol.

[InRich]

Maybe I'll hope NDP gets in than, and your taxes surge, and your overall quality of life hits the floor, and you'll remember just how retarded you were. Talking to you guys about this is like like talking to a door knobs.

Alberta has been FANTASTIC place to live for the past 40 years. Its the best place in the country in my opinion, and one of the best places to live in the world. I love it here. Its this good for a reason. Now I know that its been a rough ride for the last year cause of oil prices. I understand people feel we need a change, but NDP will ruin everything thats good about Alberta, give your heads a shake.

http://iwuz.me/2015/05/01/socialism-remembered/

NDP RUINED BC, Saskatchewan, and Ontario. Why would you wanna ruin Alberta too!

[flipstah]

How I'm voting tomorrow. Fits me quite well.

[schocker]

Originally posted by rage2

I love how nobody understands how dividend tax works. Here's a quick primer:

http://www.epr.ca/dividends-vs-salaries/

While dividend tax rates is lower, it's also post corporate tax, which combined *gasp* works out to the same as salary.

The difference is the differing benefits between the 2 types of income.

It's hilarious how everyone thinks that pays themselves through dividends are cheating on taxes and screwing everyone else lol.
Isn't it also only $30k tax free which is not that much....

If they get in I just plan to join a union then I am safe forever :D

[you&me]

Originally posted by ercchry
YOU'RE!

... and its a lot, not alot... but yes, continue to call people dumb

LOL

Not its... It's... (It is)... "It's a lot"

But to be fair, both you and 'Rich got that one wrong.

:poosie:

[M.alex]

Originally posted by InRich
Maybe I'll hope NDP gets in than, and your taxes surge, and your overall quality of life hits the floor, and you'll remember just how retarded you were. Talking to you guys about this is like like talking to a door knobs.

Alberta has been FANTASTIC place to live for the past 40 years. Its the best place in the country in my opinion, and one of the best places to live in the world. I love it here. Its this good for a reason. Now I know that its been a rough ride for the last year cause of oil prices. I understand people feel we need a change, but NDP will ruin everything thats good about Alberta, give your heads a shake.

http://iwuz.me/2015/05/01/socialism-remembered/

NDP RUINED BC, Saskatchewan, and Ontario. Why would you wanna ruin Alberta too!

oh look, the rich bourgeoisie is whining, wahhh wahhh

rich people should be jailed; long-live communism!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Danghui.svg/2000px-Danghui.svg.png
(this bimg change brought to you by A790. When you need moderation, choose A790!)

[A790]

Originally posted by InRich


cause your stupid. Thats the only logical conclusion I can come up with...



God your so fucking dumb, its a waste of my time to even take you seriously... But if you really wanna know... I'll tell ya.
They'll trash business's like mine right into the ground. Where I employ 21 FULL time workers. Who pay alot in taxes. I pay alot in taxes... Now... times that by thousands of other businesses just like mine all over Alberta. Imagine what will happen.

Let me tell you something. Its businesses like mine that keep our economy going strong. Where I'm creating jobs for people who wouldn't have them in the first place. I create jobs, which in turn creates wealth for the province. And let me tell you. ITS NOT EASY - what I do. Every day I gotta go door to door. thats right, like a piece of shit, I go door knocking, so I can scrounge up enough leads, so that I can flip and sell them on some type of home renovation... Ever go door to door? you should try it, see what its like, see how hard it is. Where people slam doors in your face, call you a piece of shit for disturbing them, yell at you, etc. But its something I gotta do, to keep my business going, and to keep my guys busy. Otherwise everything falls apart. I can go on and on. But your not a very smart person. So I'll leave you with this, and hope you make the right choice tomorrow.
What a bunch of tripe.

This kind of scare-tactic bullshit is what has kept the PC's in power for 44 years. A marginal increase to business tax/personal tax isn't going to destroy your business. It's called adapt or die.

"I go door to door, my life is so hard. BTW, should I upgrade and pay $40k for a new SUV guys? Guys? Do you like my Corvette? Guys?!"

Don't make me laugh.

I'm an employer and an entrepreneur as well. I know how hard it is to build a business, let alone grow it into something profitable and responsible. I also completely support increasing the corporate tax rate and increasing taxation for higher income earners (of which, I'm one of them).

Increasing our taxes to a level that are long-term sustainable and fair to both businesses and consumers is important in maintaining a balanced economy. It's important in ensuring that we can fund the services we require. It's important so that income inequality becomes more balanced. It's important so that regular Albertans, the ones that are just trying to get by, can do so knowing that they have options should they fail.

I'm not saying the NDP are the solution, either. What I am saying is that scare tactic bullshit, like your post, does far more harm than good. It doesn't promote conversation. Hell, look at how you talk to people. "Cause your stupid." Wow. Compelling argument you've made.

Can you explain how they're going to "trash businesses like yours"? Give me an example, please. I'm not even asking this because I think you're wrong, either. I'm asking this so that you can contribute something meaningful to the conversation and promote an actual discussion.

[InRich]

Originally posted by msommers


LOL...X5M company vehicle bro

If Inrich is currently knocking on doors to get business, what would the NDP do to make things worse? I'll give it him credit, doing whatever it takes to stay busy.

Thank-you for that comment. I do appreciate that. And yes I will do ANYTHING to keep my business going as strong as possible. Believe me its hard, dealing with trades alone is a nightmare!!! but on top of that keeping them busy is a while other story. if I gotta door knock 7 days a week (which I do btw) I'll do it to keep the leads flowing. Oh btw this year has been the hardest year in 8 YEARS. I'm already going to be laying off 25% of my work force, if the NDP get in, I can see my business suffering even worse. I know i
m a hot head when speaking on here, I'm just saying how I feel, no filter between my head and my mouth. Dont take it personally fellas. DO NOT VOTE NDP plz! Its tough for guys like me in the front line trenches.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ZenOps]

If you factor in that the US did not land on the moon, lefty Putin-land doesn't look all that bad comparitively. Sure, they massively overspent on now rusting military - but they also do have great industrial capacity.

If you factor in that the US did land on the moon, then yes - the US kicks everyones ass and noone in the world should be allowed to use their netflix - other than US exceptional citizens because eveyone else sucks gonads.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing a NDP minority govt or five way tie.

[M.alex]

I don't pay much attention to how govn't budgets work, but if there's a minority govn't taxes wouldn't go up, would they? NDP would vote yes, the others would vote no, and there should be more no's than yes's?

[flipstah]

Originally posted by M.alex
I don't pay much attention to how govn't budgets work, but if there's a minority govn't taxes wouldn't go up, would they? NDP would vote yes, the others would vote no, and there should be more no's than yes's?

Liberals might work with NDP with conditions so it's not that easy to get a lot of 'no'.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by rage2

I love how nobody understands how dividend tax works. Here's a quick primer:

http://www.epr.ca/dividends-vs-salaries/

While dividend tax rates is lower, it's also post corporate tax, which combined *gasp* works out to the same as salary.

The difference is the differing benefits between the 2 types of income.

It's hilarious how everyone thinks that pays themselves through dividends are cheating on taxes and screwing everyone else lol.

Hey, I appreciate the learning opportunity. Fair enough! But to make it sound like small-business owners don't get perks is hilarious. Yes, there has been some serious clamping down on it as there should be.

If corporations and businesses are "people" in the eyes of the law, I see little reason why they should be subsidized. Then again, I see little reason why ANYTHING is subsidized, it all just becomes pork.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok



Bullshit. He just knew when to get on the ground floor of some lucrative contracts, asides from that he was playing nice just trying to get some princess tail. He also knew the rebels would be a good hiding spot from Jabba.

good grief man. thats the ENTIRE concept in the movies.

light side, people's champions=ndp
dark side, imperialists/corporatists= pc/wildrose.

nothing wrong with individuals making a living. its the evil EMPIRE that we are after.

lol. man.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Toma


good grief man. thats the ENTIRE concept in the movies.

light side, people's champions=ndp
dark side, imperialists/corporatists= pc/wildrose.

nothing wrong with individuals making a living. its the evil EMPIRE that we are after.

lol. man.

That's your version of the concept.

Another persons version is that that the Empire was practically NDP heaven because everyone was the same, every single soldier was a clone... all... equal...

[Feruk]

Originally posted by mr2mike
http://boereport.com/2015/05/04/ndp-stance-on-fraccing-could-have-crippling-implications-to-albertas-oil-industry/

I'll leave this right here... that Norway vs. Alberta picture is a non issue if there's no fracturing.

Oh man, fear mongering at it's very worst. Nobody has even said a word about a fracking moratorium; nobody's that stupid. Actually, someone is that stupid... the employees of BOE Report. Or should I say current and ex Long Run Energy employees. I'd never vote NDP, but this story is just pathetic drivel.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

But to make it sound like small-business owners don't get perks is hilarious. Yes, there has been some serious clamping down on it as there should be.


"Perks" are just a trade off for unpaid vacations, no health benefits, no ESOP, no RRSP matching, no employment insurance, etc. You make it sound like these people are stealing from you. They also potentially employ others and help the economy.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by phreezee


You make it sound like these people are stealing from you.

I think everyone should pay their fair share :dunno: Also, your trickle down economics ("they" provide jobs) has been disproved time and time again.

So yes, if a company of any sort is utilizing public infrastructure and gets a larger return on their use of it (be it the citizens, resources, hard infrastructure, governance, etc etc) they should be paying. And I would argue right now that with the "no taxes before $500k revenue" and 10% corporate tax rate, its currently not enough :dunno:

Edit-
As well, everyone likes to scapegoat union workers as taking more than their fair share. Having been on both sides, I clearly have a different viewpoint than some on "who gets what" and "who pays enough".

[ZedMan]

Originally posted by Toma


good grief man. thats the ENTIRE concept in the movies.

light side, people's champions=ndp
dark side, imperialists/corporatists= pc/wildrose.

nothing wrong with individuals making a living. its the evil EMPIRE that we are after.

lol. man.

Oh BS. I don't remember seeing any contractors working on the deathstar. Every guy there was a public sector employee.

[ExtraSlow]

All the TFW's were in that filthy cantina.

[7thgenvic]

All we need is another Cunt in charge of this Province... UGHHHH

[300zxfairlday]

Ill vote for pc before i ever vote ndp
Wildrose ftw

[revelations]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic
All we need is another Cunt in charge of this Province... UGHHHH

What an extremely well thought out statement. :rolleyes:





But, back to the NDP. You can see that Mrs. Notley squarely aligns with the typical NDP background in big labour. Expect her actions to reflect those of the past. She wont pander to big oil, but she probably wont kick them to the curb either.


(wiki)


After law school, Notley articled for Edmonton labour lawyer Bob Blakely, and went on to work for the AUPE representing members with Workers' Compensation cases.

In 1994, Notley moved to Vancouver, British Columbia, where she worked for the Health Sciences Association of BC as their occupational health and safety officer.[9]

During her time in BC, she worked for one year as a ministerial assistant to the provincial Attorney General.[10] In this role, she was part of the team that first expanded the application of BC's family relations laws to same sex couples, several years before the Government of Canada took similar initiatives.

Notley acted as a representative of the provincial labour movement in the negotiation and drafting of new workplace health and safety standards.[1]

During her time in Vancouver, Notley was active with “Moms on the Move”, an organization that advocated for the rights of special needs children. She is also a past board member of the Vancouver Community College.[7]

Notley returned to Edmonton in 2002. She worked for a short time for the National Union of Public and General Employees (NUPGE),[11] worked at Athabasca University,[12] acted as volunteer co-ordinator for the Friends of Medicare "Romanow Now" campaign, and finally as a labour relations officer for the United Nurses of Alberta.[1]

[Nitro5]

so wait, I'm a little behind, I should hate on someone because they worked hard and have a nice car? Got to get this NDP mindset right for tomorrow.

If the NDP wins, should we start some BMW's on fire?

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I think everyone should pay their fair share :dunno:
I've been pretty quiet about this fair share business because I'm probably going to sound like a douche but here we go.

We had a fair share system. Under a flat tax system everyone paid a fair share. Low earners pay a lot less than high earners. Simple. Under the NDP platform the progressive tax system punishes hard workers who make more than 125k and severely punishes earners over 300k (to be fair PC failed here with their new progressive tax system, but not as bad as what the NDP are proposing). The problem is that PC is spending out of control, and NDP is proposing even more spending which is mind boggling. We need to trim the fat, not open up our wallets and give the NDP a blank check.

Does that make me a money hungry asshole? I believe I'm fairly generous. More money in my pocket means I can donate and contribute to what I want to, support the things that I believe in. I don't like the government taking more from me, and dictating where those contributions go.

The huge shift to NDP goes to show that the majority of people have become entitled today, and that annoys the hell out of me. Punish the rich, the (mostly) hard working people who are creating wealth and pouring it back into the economy. Hardly fair share.

[msommers]

Originally posted by InRich


Thank-you for that comment. I do appreciate that. And yes I will do ANYTHING to keep my business going as strong as possible. Believe me its hard, dealing with trades alone is a nightmare!!! but on top of that keeping them busy is a while other story. if I gotta door knock 7 days a week (which I do btw) I'll do it to keep the leads flowing. Oh btw this year has been the hardest year in 8 YEARS. I'm already going to be laying off 25% of my work force, if the NDP get in, I can see my business suffering even worse. I know i
m a hot head when speaking on here, I'm just saying how I feel, no filter between my head and my mouth. Dont take it personally fellas. DO NOT VOTE NDP plz! Its tough for guys like me in the front line trenches.

Well I hate to break this to you man, but some family friends of ours run a custom homes company. She designs and he project manages, so I've heard all the horror stories of dealing with trades. Today, they aren't knocking on doors for business (and haven't been for well over 5+ years now) and they are actually getting progressively busier building homes instead of high-end renos. So while things have definitely slowed as a whole, the current government may be partially to blame for that, not one that currently has zero say on how business is done here.


Originally posted by rage2

I've been pretty quiet about this fair share business because I'm probably going to sound like a douche but here we go.

We had a fair share system. Under a flat tax system everyone paid a fair share. Low earners pay a lot less than high earners. Simple. Under the NDP platform the progressive tax system punishes hard workers who make more than 125k and severely punishes earners over 300k (to be fair PC failed here with their new progressive tax system, but not as bad as what the NDP are proposing). The problem is that PC is spending out of control, and NDP is proposing even more spending which is mind boggling. We need to trim the fat, not open up our wallets and give the NDP a blank check.

Does that make me a money hungry asshole? I believe I'm fairly generous. More money in my pocket means I can donate and contribute to what I want to, support the things that I believe in. I don't like the government taking more from me, and dictating where those contributions go.

The huge shift to NDP goes to show that the majority of people have become entitled today, and that annoys the hell out of me. Punish the rich, the (mostly) hard working people who are creating wealth and pouring it back into the economy. Hardly fair share.

Agreed -- for the most part. The only issue is "punishes hard workers who make more than 125k." It makes it sound like anyone who is making <125K isn't working hard when in reality they could be putting in way more hours than people making >125K for various reason. But I get your overall point.

Regarding dividends and salaries, it really depends. If you start a business and have the intention of keeping money in the company, making various family members shareholders (like your children), setting up trust funds etc, then yes you do end up paying less tax overall. Essentially, you can setup a retirement fund within the company and disperse funds later on to limit your yearly salary and taxable income. Not having to pay CPP saves you personally at least 2,600/year, if not 5,200/year depending on your setup. Times that by how many years and it adds up. Various tax write-offs do also add up at the end of the year, but aren't government-paid items like a lot of people seem to think.

There are also O&G companies downtown that haven't paid a cent of tax for years, primarily through acquisition.

I think as a whole, Albertans recognize the need to get off the boom-bust cycle that dictates entirely how good or bad things are here, and come to a level that's more predictable and sustainable. Those are two lovely catch-words that every fucking politician will promise, but the reality is this latest cycle really illustrates how quickly things turn to shit when we haven't planned properly. If this was the first time then I think there would be more forgiveness. But the 80's was the perfect example of what not to do and the government didn't change a thing. That's hard to ignore.

[rage2]

Originally posted by msommers
Agreed -- for the most part. The only issue is &quot;punishes hard workers who make more than 125k.&quot; It makes it sound like anyone who is making &lt;125K isn't working hard when in reality they could be putting in way more hours than people making &gt;125K for various reason. But I get your overall point.
That's why I said (mostly) hard working. :)

But ya, to add to my opinion, I'm not opposed to tax increases. I'm just opposed to overspending, and progressive taxation. If we cut the fat and still can't make ends meet because we've been subsidizing ourselves over the years with O&G money, then we should definately increase the flat tax rate so that everyone actually pays a fair share.

[HiTempguy1]

In my opinion, its not a fair share. Even having the flat tax based on percent, at the end of the day it still is disproportionately harder financially on the poorer folk than the more well off people. The systems we have in place have given everyone (including myself) a leg-up to get where we are today. If we need a bit more money to support them, I think it is in almost everyone's best interests to do so. Rage, is 2% higher tax really going to affect your bottom line? Will you even NOTICE that money gone after the initial year? I know right now if somebody said 1% of my salary was gone, it'd be a pretty yawn moment.

Understand, I earn enough money that I will probably get hit with higher taxes, if not immediately, almost certainly within the next couple of years if the progressive tax goes through. I have skin in this game. I'm also a business owner now.

I agree with your assessment of needing to trim the fat. As I've said before, wildrose says it will cut half of AHS management. I personally believe that could be done and service quality would not suffer.

Hell, where I work could cut half of management and nobody would notice :rofl:

So while we do have a spending problem, we do have a revenue problem as well, mainly that O&G royalties (when the times are good) have subsidized that flat rate.

Of course, as I always point out, O&G has been subsidized in many ways. Have the plants up north paid for the twinning and multiple overpasses north of Fort Mac? Fuck no! Did they pay for the additional oversized load routes that go around those overpasses so they don't have to ship large equipment on barges down the Athabasca? Nope! (please correct me if I am wrong!)

Alberta citizens being put on the hook for a refinery that could cost us billions? Sole sourcing bullshit contracts for the modular schools in southern Alberta when the floods hit?

I am sick of ALL subsidies, loop holes, etc etc. I want it all gone, whether its said issues I have with corporate welfare, or healthcare that costs us $1k more per year than any other province and we still have worse service. So the Wildrose could do it, but unfortunately, I don't believe this province has its tax system structured to survive WITHOUT oil royalties. We need to change that NOW, the sooner we can do that, the better off we'll be to get past peak demand of oil and a changing world in general.

The NDP currently advocates for that. They have their issues though. Minimum wage is already what, $10.50/h or close to it? A gradual increase to $15/h (if that ever goes through, and I honestly doubt it would) over the next couple of years isn't insane. I don't agree with it, buI can overlook it as a flaw vs a fundamental policy issue, especially considering most fast food joints seem to be advertising $13/h anyways, and in the larger cities, it is pretty damn tough to get by on that (so again, society subsidizing labour for corporations by having a minimum wage that may not truly reflect a "minimum" wage).

These are tough issues. I actually don't like any of the parties running. I personally feel we do a pretty good job in this province of taking care of business, including the business of the people who need a helping hand. The PC party in and of itself isn't the problem, its that they are a bunch of crony dickheads.

So wildrose or NDP? One is going to raise taxes, no questions asked. The other is going to start cutting like back in the Klein years. Some would argue that Klein hurt this province by kicking the can of infrastructure and development down the road, and we are now feeling what happens (especially in an acute sense due to the until recently blazing hot economy).

Wow, that got out of hand quick. TLDR; our taxes are too low to sustain the province without oil royalties. Something has to give/be changed. The well off can afford to have services that the province provides cutback, the less well off can't. Therefore, I side with NDP.

[dirtsniffer]

just make sure you go vote tomorrow.

My prediction:
WR 40
NDP 25
PC 15
Lib 5
AB 2

[Sugarphreak]

....

[dirtsniffer]

They also predicted that they would get killed last time..

[rage2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
In my opinion, its not a fair share. Even having the flat tax based on percent, at the end of the day it still is disproportionately harder financially on the poorer folk than the more well off people.
I disagree here. It will affect both the same if both are irresponsible with their money. It's going to hurt a person making $30k a year who "needs" to pay for a smart phone, rent a place of their own, and living check to check as much as the person making $200k a year leveraged to his eyeballs in mortgage and car payments. A flat tax increase from 10 to 11% (with a 10k tax free base for simplicity sake) means an additional $200 a year for a $30k earner vs $1900 for a $200k earner. Living on the financial edge, it'll hurt both equally.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
The systems we have in place have given everyone (including myself) a leg-up to get where we are today. If we need a bit more money to support them, I think it is in almost everyone's best interests to do so.
Not really, why should we help low income earners be more irresponsible with their money than high income earners? At the end of the day, you create your own financial hardship, regardless of your income level. If you make $30k a year, you shouldn't eat out, you shouldn't rent a place on your own, and properly control your finances. Want kids? Too bad. You're not entitled to have kids if you can't afford it.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Rage, is 2% higher tax really going to affect your bottom line? Will you even NOTICE that money gone after the initial year? I know right now if somebody said 1% of my salary was gone, it'd be a pretty yawn moment.
Would it affect myself? Nope. But it sure would affect others. It would affect where I donate my money, where I invest my money, and where I spend my money. All of which affects others, as that money goes right back to the economy.

I think bottom line is, I'm sick of entitlement lol.

[FraserB]

PC - 39
WRA - 26
NDP - 20
Lib - 2

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by rage2


Not really, why should we help low income earners be more irresponsible with their money than high income earners? At the end of the day, you create your own financial hardship, regardless of your income level. If you make $30k a year, you shouldn't eat out, you shouldn't rent a place on your own, and properly control your finances. Want kids? Too bad. You're not entitled to have kids if you can't afford it.



I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. Do you think the Wildrose will do this? Without negatively affecting government services?

I'm saying that to maintain the levels we have are currently unsustainable. Are you saying that the entitlement itself needs to get cut back? What entitlement specifically and how? Honest questions.

[rage2]

All I know is reading the NDP platform is not doing any of this. And no, I never mentioned cutting back on entitlements. I said trim the fat from existing services and programs. The entitlement comment was from people who think we should take even more money from people that earn more.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by InRich


Thank-you for that comment. I do appreciate that. And yes I will do ANYTHING to keep my business going as strong as possible. Believe me its hard, dealing with trades alone is a nightmare!!! but on top of that keeping them busy is a while other story. if I gotta door knock 7 days a week (which I do btw) I'll do it to keep the leads flowing. Oh btw this year has been the hardest year in 8 YEARS. I'm already going to be laying off 25% of my work force, if the NDP get in, I can see my business suffering even worse. I know i
m a hot head when speaking on here, I'm just saying how I feel, no filter between my head and my mouth. Dont take it personally fellas. DO NOT VOTE NDP plz! Its tough for guys like me in the front line trenches.

I'm genuinely worried you're going to have a heart attack depending on the outcome tomorrow - please read this article and breathe deeply. It's from the Fraser Institute (your ideological brethren):

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/articles/canadas-history-of-dealing-with-deficits-in-the-1990s.pdf

[msommers]

I would absolutely love to "trim the fat" especially with AHS in mind. The problem is the fat is actually a lot of management controlling what to trim. So instead of trimming their brethren, they trim front-line workers and care goes further down meanwhile expectations consistently go up. I mean I completely get why people who have money want a system where they can just buy better care; 6 months for an MRI or tomorrow for $1,200!

I've said this before and I'll say it again, education and health care should not be the first targets to cut costs and quite frankly unless things are lavish and outrageous spending is going on, should never be cut.

The reality is for low income earners that you either want to be middle class or below the poverty line to qualify for social programs. People just above the poverty line I really feel for.

[InRich]

Gotta admit. Rage your a pretty smart guy ;) we should play poker together sometime and chit chat :D might be fun

[Ergo-Sun-Tzu]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5LRKkpddTsQ/VUgVzBl0QYI/AAAAAAAAWQA/t_TAyttDbeg/s660/Projection%2BFront.png

Based on statistical analysis done by threehundredeight.com, and if this analysis is done correctly, the NDP might form the government tommorrow. However, if it is wrong, either the PC or Wildrose will form tomorrows government. But mind you the poll may be wrong.In some cases, like the last Alberta election, the polls had the Wildrose in the lead; however, the PC won a majority. "The vote and seat projections in the central columns reflect the best estimates based on the available polling data." from threehundredeight.com.

I would also like to point out certain facts, threehundredeight.com analysis are created from various polls done by various organizations like EKOs, Nanos, etc.

The full report done by threehundredeight.com on the Alberta Election Seating and Voting probability results: http://www.threehundredeight.com/p/alberta.html

[403Gemini]

Scares the shit out of me that these KIDS may be running our province in 2 days....

http://www.albertandp.ca/joncarson
http://www.albertandp.ca/michaelconnolly
http://www.albertandp.ca/thomasdang
http://www.albertandp.ca/catherineharder
http://www.albertandp.ca/jessicalittlewood
http://www.albertandp.ca/hannahschlamp
http://www.albertandp.ca/grahamsucha
http://www.albertandp.ca/tristanturner

[dirtsniffer]

Exactly. The biggest budget these kids have dealt with is their fucking allowance. How about finding some candidates with life experience. The lady in my riding has been a gardener in the Okanogan for 20 years. We're so fucked if they win.

[Ergo-Sun-Tzu]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
Exactly. The biggest budget these kids have dealt with is their fucking allowance. How about finding some candidates with life experience. The lady in my riding has been a gardener in the Okanogan for 20 years. We're so fucked if they win.

Healthcare, and Education seems to be their motto, if they do win, I suppose you can try and find a job there. If not join the picket line for EI; however, considering Stephen Harper made it difficult for people to get EI, you may want to consider going to a drop in centre for the homeless for some food and shelter, or getting your food at the local Calgary Food Bank.

[[GaGe]]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
Scares the shit out of me that these KIDS may be running our province in 2 days....

http://www.albertandp.ca/joncarson
http://www.albertandp.ca/michaelconnolly
http://www.albertandp.ca/thomasdang
http://www.albertandp.ca/catherineharder
http://www.albertandp.ca/jessicalittlewood
http://www.albertandp.ca/hannahschlamp
http://www.albertandp.ca/grahamsucha
http://www.albertandp.ca/tristanturner

Yeah that's scary. The Edmonton South-West guy is a computer science student lol.

Maybe I should've run for NDP.

[themack89]

Originally posted by rage2
I disagree here. It will affect both the same if both are irresponsible with their money. It's going to hurt a person making $30k a year who &quot;needs&quot; to pay for a smart phone, rent a place of their own, and living check to check as much as the person making $200k a year leveraged to his eyeballs in mortgage and car payments. A flat tax increase from 10 to 11% (with a 10k tax free base for simplicity sake) means an additional $200 a year for a $30k earner vs $1900 for a $200k earner. Living on the financial edge, it'll hurt both equally.

Not really, why should we help low income earners be more irresponsible with their money than high income earners? At the end of the day, you create your own financial hardship, regardless of your income level. If you make $30k a year, you shouldn't eat out, you shouldn't rent a place on your own, and properly control your finances. Want kids? Too bad. You're not entitled to have kids if you can't afford it.

Your assumption makes your argument really convenient. I mean, assuming both poor and rich economic agents are living to the extreme end of their means, a proportionate tax adjustment will affect both equally.... yes. The comparison is not apples to apples though when you consider that the poor person can only choose from a very limited list of lifestyles before reaching that "financial edge" as opposed to the rich person who has considerably more choice.

So, if neither are living on the financial edge, it certainly does NOT affect them the same. Depending on how you perceive the possibilities frontier (which, normally exhibits concavity). The more you expand ones income, their choice expands exponentially.

Your second paragraph is more ignorant to the fact that we live in a lottery and tournament style economy. It is easy to speak that way when you have been lucky through the course of your life--lucky to end up where you are, regardless of how much you perceive your success to be strictly a result of how "hard" or how "smart" you worked. Try to consider, objectively, how many subtleties you stumbled across--people you met, right place right time, those who failed before you making the tiniest mistake, etc. Consider how much society as a whole could benefit if we remove luck from the filtering system (indirectly this is done through income redistribution, i.e. higher taxation at the upper ends)... I don't want to use any specific examples or they might get twisted.

Actually, this reminds me of a thought that used to often cloud around in my mind: money is an arbitrary measure of entitlement (maybe this is what you were saying?). Husband and Wife X may be lucky enough to be in a socioeconomic status which would allow them to have a family whereas Husband and Wife Y are not. But, what if objectively Husband and Wife Y are genetically superior? They have perfect eye sight, they are attractive, they are smarter, stronger, faster--only they had not stumbled upon a decent inheritance or simply were not as lucky in their ventures due to off timing, wrong place wrong time, etc. If society had a choice as to where to re-distribute wealth and resources to move someone from the "too bad no kids" bracket to the "have $ to have kids" bracket.... What would they do?

It is all too easy to forget that equality does not yield justice. It's also easy to forget socioeconomic status is largely a function of luck.

[Toma]

Ahhh, yes, Attribution Theory, Self Serving Bias, and Fundamental Attribution Error....

The plague of mankind everywhere, especially the righties lol;)

But this is no place for such nonsense. Shouldn't we be talking about steak, and what we had for dinner last night?

Please get out and vote "tomorrow". ;)

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by themack89


Your assumption makes your argument really convenient. I mean, assuming both poor and rich economic agents are living to the extreme end of their means, a proportionate tax adjustment will affect both equally.... yes. The comparison is not apples to apples though when you consider that the poor person can only choose from a very limited list of lifestyles before reaching that &quot;financial edge&quot; as opposed to the rich person who has considerably more choice.

So, if neither are living on the financial edge, it certainly does NOT affect them the same. Depending on how you perceive the possibilities frontier (which, normally exhibits concavity). The more you expand ones income, their choice expands exponentially.

Your second paragraph is more ignorant to the fact that we live in a lottery and tournament style economy. It is easy to speak that way when you have been lucky through the course of your life--lucky to end up where you are, regardless of how much you perceive your success to be strictly a result of how &quot;hard&quot; or how &quot;smart&quot; you worked. Try to consider, objectively, how many subtleties you stumbled across--people you met, right place right time, those who failed before you making the tiniest mistake, etc. Consider how much society as a whole could benefit if we remove luck from the filtering system (indirectly this is done through income redistribution, i.e. higher taxation at the upper ends)... I don't want to use any specific examples or they might get twisted.

Actually, this reminds me of a thought that used to often cloud around in my mind: money is an arbitrary measure of entitlement (maybe this is what you were saying?). Husband and Wife X may be lucky enough to be in a socioeconomic status which would allow them to have a family whereas Husband and Wife Y are not. But, what if objectively Husband and Wife Y are genetically superior? They have perfect eye sight, they are attractive, they are smarter, stronger, faster--only they had not stumbled upon a decent inheritance or simply were not as lucky in their ventures due to off timing, wrong place wrong time, etc. If society had a choice as to where to re-distribute wealth and resources to move someone from the &quot;too bad no kids&quot; bracket to the &quot;have $ to have kids&quot; bracket.... What would they do?

It is all too easy to forget that equality does not yield justice. It's also easy to forget socioeconomic status is largely a function of luck.

So your upset life isn't fair?

[themack89]

Originally posted by Nitro5
So your upset life isn't fair?

To an extent, yes... Aren't we all?

I am more upset that we have been trained to think that any unfortunate individual in society is entirely at fault for their position in life, and the same for the fortunate. Honestly I was raised to think this way, it took a long time to learn other perspectives.

I am appreciative though how you pandered my response from the emotional angle and did not challenge my reason. Does that mean it was a reasonable statement?

Disclosure: I'm totally neutral to all parties because I think they are all crooked in different ways. If it were up to me, I'd look at countries with the highest quality of life / median happiness of citizen and copy whatever they do. Of course, only doing comparisons to other countries who face winters comparatively as harsh as ours (bad weather tends to bog people down).

[ZenOps]

This vote could have small impacts on the UK vote as well. If a solidly right colony can go left, then surely the crown can as well.