12th Ave Cycle Track Lane Insanity

[mazdavirgin]

So it looks like they gave a drunk preschooler a paint brush and had them randomly draw lanes. Shit goes right then left and practically forces quasi lane changes in the middle of intersections. Not to mention the craziness with the weird dual turn lanes which people are driving through. I can't wait for there to be snow on the ground to see the epic level cluster fuck the city planners have caused. At the moment it makes for a very exciting drive with people randomly getting in and out of lanes and trying to figure out where the hell they should be when the white lines suddenly randomly cut left or right... :rofl:

[msommers]

I noticed this as well. They really did a poor job implementing this.

[jaeden]

I haven't seen the full length of 12th yet but the lanes jog over quite a bit mid-intersection at 4th St, and then around 2nd there is a forced left turn lane that could easily allow cars to proceed straight as well. That means there is only one lane getting through (because the right lane is parking). Its going to be fun driving that at night trying to dodge the taxis spontaneously stopping or pulling into traffic without looking.

[88CRX]

Drove it this morning…. What a gong show!

Didn’t even consider winter driving hahahaha…. Gonna be an epic disaster. Also I'd be pissed if I lived on 12th as there is literally no street parking or loading left.

[BrknFngrs]

I walk by this everyday on my way home and the way that this has piled up traffic on 12th is pretty unreal

[J-D]

I already saw someone get high centered on one of the concrete barriers :rofl:

These bike lanes are getting out of hand, but still doesn't have shit on that one by Northmount.

[msommers]

The way the bike lanes are setup are ideal for. The concrete barrier is safer for bikers and restricts them to one area of the road, and is easier to tell distance to the biker from the driver's perspective.

This only works when the lanes are clearly and intuitively marked. No one expects the lane they're in to disappear when they go through an intersection :rofl:

[JustinMCS]

These cycle lanes downtown are ruining downtown. I can't stand it.

[schocker]

Originally posted by JustinMCS
These cycle lanes downtown are ruining downtown. I can't stand it.
The one in front of the court house is just plastic bollards and a block south just parking stop curbs :rofl:

[msommers]

If it can work for NYC, it can work here. These lanes were just poorly designed, no way around it.

[J-D]

Originally posted by msommers
If it can work for NYC, it can work here. These lanes were just poorly designed, no way around it.

It makes a bit more sense in a city of 8.5 million (urban) versus 1.1 million (mostly suburban)

[msommers]

Yes that's true. But Manhattan traffic is anything but light. In fact it's worse than it is here.

So if we're both looking at improving the cores of each, improving flow should be harder in NYC and yet it was a total success there.

Or do I need more coffee this morning?

[Type_S1]

thank god for Nenshis hard on for bikes...changing calgary for the better one road at a time.

[speedog]

I have to wonder why this wasn't put on 13th Avenue - 13th just seems like a more logical and safer choice and better yet, there's a multi-use pathway being built into the 13th Avenue Heritage Greenway (north side of 13th Ave)..

[rage2]

Drove it at lunch today. Was a traffic gong show, took 5 mins to go 2 blocks. Turns out trucks stopping for delivery doesn't have a curb lane anymore, so they just stop right in the middle of the road blocking an entire lane. :nut:

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by rage2
Drove it at lunch today. Was a traffic gong show, took 5 mins to go 2 blocks. Turns out trucks stopping for delivery doesn't have a curb lane anymore, so they just stop right in the middle of the road blocking an entire lane. :nut:

Yeah the left hand lane is a parking lane and in some places so is the right hand lane. They moved the parking signs out right next to the cycle track thing. So you do actually really park smack in the middle of the road. As best as I can tell that means that in some places at certain times of the day the road will actually go down to being a single lane? :nut:

[schocker]

Originally posted by rage2
Drove it at lunch today. Was a traffic gong show, took 5 mins to go 2 blocks. Turns out trucks stopping for delivery doesn't have a curb lane anymore, so they just stop right in the middle of the road blocking an entire lane. :nut:
Don't worry, none of the budgeted money went to design. One third each to signs, paint and random dividers.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Yeah the left hand lane is a parking lane and in some places so is the right hand lane. They moved the parking signs out right next to the cycle track thing. So you do actually really park smack in the middle of the road. As best as I can tell that means that in some places at certain times of the day the road will actually go down to being a single lane? :nut:

Like the parking lane out across the street from Hotel Arts. If you thought the parking lanes on 17th weren't wide enough for a parked car and a normal traffic lane, I'm pretty sure these parking/traffic lanes are even smaller.

I'm intrigued to see how this is going to work. I'm reserving all judgment until next summer after a full year.

[snowcat]

With no stopping signs, people still stopped with the hazard lights on.

Making a lane for a specific vehicle is stupid. It should at least be a multi purpose lane, motorcycle, bus lane, cyclist lane - like the rest of the world.

[clem24]

Any pics?

[rage2]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2012/10/14/09/ab/gridlock_traffic_02.JPG

Seriously, it was something like that haha.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by clem24
Any pics?

It was more fuck up earlier in the week when it was snowing/raining and the markings are gone.

The fuck up part is they somehow kept the double turn lanes on 8th. So from west to east, you went from 3 lanes to 4 lanes to 2 thru lanes within a block and everyone is fucked up.

I'm starting my biking to work after I return from Montreal F1. Hopefully the chaos will die down by then.

[The_Penguin]

I park in a lot right in the middle of this cluster fuck, have to cross the bike lane to enter the lot.
I even leave early (3:00) and it's backed up.

Bad enough that they've removed the left lane, but now they're forcing a left turn at 1st st W. and a right turn on McLeod. Just ridiculous.

[rage2]

It's like they looked at all the problems of crowchild over Bow river north/west bound, and applied it to 12th ave. Cant wait till hockey season starts again to see how fucked saddledome traffic gets in the middle of rush hour.

Maybe they secretly want us to ride bikes in winter to see the game?

[J-D]

Originally posted by rage2
It's like they looked at all the problems of crowchild over Bow river north/west bound, and applied it to 12th ave. Cant wait till hockey season starts again to see how fucked saddledome traffic gets in the middle of rush hour.

Maybe they secretly want us to ride bikes in winter to see the game?

Bad traffic clearly just means we need more bike lanes. Maybe we can convert the NB lane on crowchild over the river to a two way bike lane?

Peace Bridge (http://eco-public.com/public2/?id=100018487)

7 Street (http://eco-public.com/public2/?id=100017181)

Stephen Ave (http://www.eco-public.com/public2/?id=100020243)

[rage2]

Found the design pdf. Enjoy.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Documents/cycling/City%20Centre%20cycle%20track/cycle-track-network-12ave-maps.pdf

[J-D]

How does the signal timing work?

http://i.imgur.com/cfSAPlS.jpg

Let's say you're turning left on a green light heading Eastbound on 12 Ave, do you have to watch for two directions of cyclists and two directions of pedestrians? Seems kind of insane given that cyclists move a lot faster than most pedestrians and are a lot less visible than most cars.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by rage2
Found the design pdf. Enjoy.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Documents/cycling/City%20Centre%20cycle%20track/cycle-track-network-12ave-maps.pdf

Holy dear balls... That's epically bad and it's on purpose.

http://i.imgur.com/JVz8wWp.png

3 lanes to 2 lanes to 3 lanes

:facepalm:

Going to be awesome once you can't see any lines in the winter.

[schocker]

Originally posted by J-D


Bad traffic clearly just means we need more bike lanes. Maybe we can convert the NB lane on crowchild over the river to a two way bike lane?

Peace Bridge (http://eco-public.com/public2/?id=100018487)

7 Street (http://eco-public.com/public2/?id=100017181)

Stephen Ave (http://www.eco-public.com/public2/?id=100020243)
Well those super high counts, like 700 a day including both directions on 7th, makes it well worth it :rofl:

[Boat]

I used to take 12th ave eastbound all the time to get to mcleod SE. The lights never seemed to be synced in the last year or even longer. We drove that today at lunch and it was pretty crazy. As mentioned, there was a SUV parked on one of the dual turning lanes.

I honestly say that I will likely never take that route again, no matter the time of day.

[revelations]

That just looks like a debacle of epic proportions.

[jaeden]

I love the part at 5th St SW

http://i.imgur.com/PmGoO9E.png

[rx7_turbo2]

After watching the shit show on Northmount unfold nothing surprises me anymore. It's hard to believe the level of incompetence involved in these designs is even possible. All in the name of progress I suppose. :nut:

[Isaiah]

You guys don't even know the half of it, literally. The new cycle track also now eliminated the left lane of 5th St SW from 3rd Avenue to 17th Avenue. Remember all the lanes that are closed off already for construction on 5th St & 7-8th Ave? How about the median on the following block (between 9-10th Ave splitting the CP underpass with two lanes on each side?

If you've ever driven that during rush hour and tried to go left on 10th, you know it was already a struggle with the construction closures on 10th Avenue and heavy pedestrian traffic at the intersection of 10th & 5th. 5th Street now backs up for 5 lights.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by J-D


It makes a bit more sense in a city of 8.5 million (urban) versus 1.1 million (mostly suburban)

Copenhagen isn't much bigger than Calgary, and is much smaller than New York, and has shitty weather in winter, yet has a ridiculous amount of cyclist commuters, even more than Amsterdam. They got that by building hundreds of kilometres of cycle tracks.

It makes sense wherever you actually build infrastructure for more than one mode of transportation. Amsterdam and Copenhagen weren't cycling cities either until they decided they wanted to be.


Originally posted by msommers
Yes that's true. But Manhattan traffic is anything but light. In fact it's worse than it is here.

So if we're both looking at improving the cores of each, improving flow should be harder in NYC and yet it was a total success there.

Or do I need more coffee this morning?

18ZyA9PIQwQ

-build bike lanes
-increase commuter cyclists
-decrease in cyclist injuries
-transition is hard because people don't like change

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by speedog
I have to wonder why this wasn't put on 13th Avenue - 13th just seems like a more logical and safer choice and better yet, there's a multi-use pathway being built into the 13th Avenue Heritage Greenway (north side of 13th Ave)..

The Greenway isn't being designed as a commuter space, and the road can't handle a bike lane without taking away residential parking. If they could do that, they would have had the 5th St cycle track go all the way to the river rather than be forced to do what they're doing at 17th Ave.

There's also a signalling issue. 13th Ave only has lights at 4th and 5th St which isn't a desirable commuter space either. On 12th you can at least have priority with traffic which is what people want (I mean, if 13th Ave was a great commuter street, we'd probably see all these cars getting annoyed with the 12th Ave construction flocking to it).

It also ends at McLeod Trail which eliminates possible growth as the East Beltline develops and something happens in Victoria Park.

Just a few reasons.

[speedog]

Copenhagen's metropolitan population is probably close to double what's Calgary's is and Copenhagen whole structure when it comes to housing is quite a bit different then Calgary. Lifestyle's are different too so one can not make a straight across comparison between these two cities.

Personally, I don't think Calgary will ever become a cycling mecca of any sort - maybe in the beltline and inner city areas when densification occurs but let's even take one inner city community and ponder what changes have to come about to make it a truly cycling freindly area akin to what one might see in Copenhagen.

Capitol Hill for example - it's under going quite a rapid change over the last decade and will continue to do so but it's mostly single family homes being replaced by single family homes or duplexes. There's not much in the way (if any) densification happening in the form of townhomes or row housing or such multi-unit dwellings and that usually means that there'll be more vehicles being used for simple trips here and there as opposed to a bicycle. Add into that the fact, that there really is nothing of any significance for shopping in Capitol Hill - yeah, on it's peripheries there is but not in the actual community.

Hell even in my mid-50's community, if I need to got get a few quick grocery items I hop in the car and not on my bicycle even though the nearest grocery store is well under 2km away. Now if I opt to go to one of our two in-community convenience stores, I'll often walk because they're under 0.5 kilometers away and really, it's easy to walk and carry something as opposed to doing it in my bicycle.

The fact of the matter remains is that it's very few people in Calgary who are truly avid cyclists who utilize their bicycle in a way that many would use our car for - yeah, there's lots of avid cycle-commuters but shit like this 12th Avenue bike lane mess isn't going to be used by them for the most part. I know the city's intentions are good but these intentions are misguided IMHO - the monies for this E-W bicycle lane corridor would've been better spent one block to the north on 13th Avenue.

Yupp, there were probably public sessions had and everything but most regular schmucks (like me) didn't bother making their voices heard and like everything, the fringe groups did make an effort and are now reshaping our city's infrastructure. Never the less, we're Calgary. We're not like Portland or Copenhagen or New York or where ever and my prediction is that this 12th Avenue mess we're seeing now will not be the final solution - problem is that whatever solution the city eventually comes up with will be messed up. All I know is that I find myself avoiding the belt line and some parts of downtown more and more because of how messed up shit has become with respect to bike lanes and such and better yet, I do cycle and I avoid this shit for the most part when I'm cycling as well as it just isn't well designed for cyclists and motorists alike IMHO..

[speedog]

Originally posted by kertejud2


The Greenway isn't being designed as a commuter space, and the road can't handle a bike lane without taking away residential parking. If they could do that, they would have had the 5th St cycle track go all the way to the river rather than be forced to do what they're doing at 17th Ave.

There's also a signalling issue. 13th Ave only has lights at 4th and 5th St which isn't a desirable commuter space either. On 12th you can at least have priority with traffic which is what people want (I mean, if 13th Ave was a great commuter street, we'd probably see all these cars getting annoyed with the 12th Ave construction flocking to it).

It also ends at McLeod Trail which eliminates possible growth as the East Beltline develops and something happens in Victoria Park.

Just a few reasons.

There in part lies the problem, this Greenway should've been designed as such and you know what, I regularly use 13th Avenue as a speedy short cut in my car because I can get across the belt line often much quicker on 13th Avenue without it's controlled intersections as opposed to 10th, 11th, 12th or 17th. Have done so on my bicycle as well because I often find that getting across an uncontrolled intersections is quicker than waiting for the signalized intersections on the other 4 major E-W routes. Better yet, it's a more peaceful ride on 13th Ave because no one hardly uses it and as far as the East belt line, big deal - just skip a block north to 12th and you're good to go.

[rage2]

Originally posted by speedog
Yupp, there were probably public sessions had and everything but most regular schmucks (like me) didn't bother making their voices heard and like everything, the fringe groups did make an effort and are now reshaping our city's infrastructure.
This is not true. I've been to every session they had for the upcoming 8th street project, and all of the questionnaires are completely one sided to push this through. I wasn't the only one there against some of the proposals, and even though my answers were as negative as it can be on the questionnaire, it somehow was presented as just concerns over the future bike infrastructure and how to make it better.

Fact is the city has already decided this and not the fringe groups.

[J-D]

Originally posted by rage2

This is not true. I've been to every session they had for the upcoming 8th street project, and all of the questionnaires are completely one sided to push this through. I wasn't the only one there against some of the proposals, and even though my answers were as negative as it can be on the questionnaire, it somehow was presented as just concerns over the future bike infrastructure and how to make it better.

Fact is the city has already decided this and not the fringe groups.

Yup. You think they'd focus on pedestrian and transit infrastructure instead of touching what is esentially the least used method of transportation in the city.

http://i.imgur.com/TjqXPRs.jpg

Now that the cycle track is up though, I've decided that I really want to

Bring my dress clothes and shower supplies to the office in a backpack
Shower once I get to work! Showering at home is so passe.
Bike to & from work in terrible conditions in the winter


I'll make sure to carry my helmet around with me and tell everyone how much I love cycling to work.

[flipstah]

Those lanes are horrible. I just go on 11th and either through Kensington or 17th. 10th is bad with MARK right now.

The markings around the school are terrible.

[speedog]

What I don't get about all of this is why people are changing to feeling like they need dedicated on-street cycling infrastructure. For about 15+ years I cycle commuted into the downtown core from the north central area - I cycled on streets and only had one incident in all of those years and it was on Centre Street in the core and I had unwisely chosen that day to cycle on Centre Street. Most often, I stuck to 2nd Street NW because it was a good straight in approach for me and because vehicular traffic wasn't a big concern.

I also spent a 5+ years cycling across town over towards Princess Auto in the NE and that was a bit more of a challenge but even then, I never had any issues of cycle commuting over there all on streets - one just had to pick their routes wisely and keep their wits about them.

So the need now to have more dedicated cycling infrastructure is why? Because there's suddenly more cyclist or motorists? I don't think those ratios have really changed that much. I personally don't think adding these ill conceived cycle lanes are going to convert all that many more people into avid cyclists either. My experience with cycle commuters I know is they'll pick the easiest and shortest way and usually a route that will avoid vehicular traffic as much as possible - possibly 10th Street NW/Cambrian Drive has been the best on-street bike lane conversion I've seen to date and mostly because it is a direct in shot into the core from outlying communities. [b]But[/] this has come with a cost because the NB PM rush hour back-ups for vehicles is really ridiculous many times now with it being backed up single lane all the way from 14th Street/Northmount back to Confederation Park - so while we've added so great cycling infrastructure there, we've also added to our pollution counts with many,many more vehicles stuck idling in traffic rush hours now.

Doesn't matter though, the city will plow on ahead with this cycling strategy which I, for one, really don't believe is needed for the most part - yupp, avid cyclists will argue with me and that's fine but my own personal experience is that this is all overkill unless of course, there's some fancy award or trophy the city could win and then I'm all okay with it. ;)

[rage2]

Agreed. I'm by no means an avid cyclist, but I did ride to work for 2 years from arbour lake and by no means did I have any problems sharing the road with cars when there was no bike paths available (basically to and from bow river pathway).

Another funny thing about these sessions is that I attended the Crowchild one as well, and there was no questionnaire whatsoever. Somehow the city just shelved that one without any real consultation and just balked at the price tag.

[rx7_turbo2]

The city doesn't seem to care about the functionality of any of these projects. Most of them don't function well for motorists or cyclists. It's all about optics and ideology. Push it through regardless of how spectacularly poorly they're designed and how utterly shitty they're implemented because the only thing that matters is the fact they exist.

If you work for the city, directly or indirectly and you had any input on this project and other bike lane debacles you should be embarrassed by and ashamed of your incompetence.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by speedog
Copenhagen's metropolitan population is probably close to double what's Calgary's is and Copenhagen whole structure when it comes to housing is quite a bit different then Calgary. Lifestyle's are different too so one can not make a straight across comparison between these two cities.

Fair enough, but Copenhagen is much closer to Calgary than it is to New York and has even better cycling infrastructure (than NY). THe weather argument wouldn't hold up either. And it isn't a city that just always had it, they made a consious decision to do so (for a good documentary on how these spaces transformed, I suggest watching 'The Human Scale').


Personally, I don't think Calgary will ever become a cycling mecca of any sort - maybe in the beltline and inner city areas when densification occurs but let's even take one inner city community and ponder what changes have to come about to make it a truly cycling freindly area akin to what one might see in Copenhagen.

*snip*

Hell even in my mid-50's community, if I need to got get a few quick grocery items I hop in the car and not on my bicycle even though the nearest grocery store is well under 2km away. Now if I opt to go to one of our two in-community convenience stores, I'll often walk because they're under 0.5 kilometers away and really, it's easy to walk and carry something as opposed to doing it in my bicycle.

I completely agree.

Problem is, you have people who don't live in the area feeling like they should have as much of a say in what happens because they commute to or through it. Public outrage on what happens in Wards 7,8 and 9 happens constantly and is seemingly acceptable because it is where everybody wants to (or has to) be. If the inner city wards dictated how suburban people lived in the same way suburban commuters want to dictate how inner city people live, things would get very ugly.

Because that is what this is essentially about. People whine about social engineering all the time, completely oblivious to the fact that focusing around one form of transportation (vehicles), you are socially engineering a society to be completely reliant on cars.

Being reliant on cars means you consistently need to build infrastructure for cars which is the most expensive, and as population increases but space doesn't, it will provide the least return on investment.

It also reduces the availability of affordable inner city housing. As we just saw with N3 in East Village, you can shave off a lot of costs if you do not need to build parking in a condo building. If this can be applied to rental buildings throughout the inner city, then we could see a scattering of more affordable housing for a wider range of demographics, which is the key to making vibrant and sustainable neighborhoods.




The fact of the matter remains is that it's very few people in Calgary who are truly avid cyclists who utilize their bicycle in a way that many would use our car for - yeah, there's lots of avid cycle-commuters but shit like this 12th Avenue bike lane mess isn't going to be used by them for the most part.

The building of cycling infrastructure around the world has shown that people don't use their bicycles for this purpose because they couldn't. The studies consistently show that people want to make cycling their mode of transport of choice for everyday living but cite safety as the main reason they don't want to.

Avid cyclists use their bicycles for this purpose because they feel comfortable doing it. The goal with these tracks are not for the avid cyclists, but for the 'casual' cyclists and people who want to cycle but don't feel comfortable enough to do so. The 5th St. cycle track will be the biggest contributor to this as it will be the one that cuts through the heart of the Beltline, is close to the River Pathway, but most importantly separates cyclists and cars for the underpass.


I know the city's intentions are good but these intentions are misguided IMHO - the monies for this E-W bicycle lane corridor would've been better spent one block to the north on 13th Avenue.

Yupp, there were probably public sessions had and everything but most regular schmucks (like me) didn't bother making their voices heard and like everything, the fringe groups did make an effort and are now reshaping our city's infrastructure.

In order to reshape the city's infrastructure (four cycle tracks) they needed more public sessions than the Ring Road...which people in certain communities whine about because the access isn't good: i.e. Cranston. More public money went to find an acceptable place for a less than $20M infrastructure project for the Beltline than went into a $7B+ project. that surrounds the city.


The amount of time and money that has gone into debating the bicycle infrastructure compared to its cost is disproportionately greater than the time and money that goes into debating any other type of infrastructure.



Never the less, we're Calgary. We're not like Portland or Copenhagen or New York or where ever and my prediction is that this 12th Avenue mess we're seeing now will not be the final solution - problem is that whatever solution the city eventually comes up with will be messed up.

Again, neither were Portland, Copenhagen or New York until they decided to be. The main push for cycling infrastructure wasn't because a lot of people were cycling, it was because the ones that were cycling kept getting hit, injured and killed by cars. Because the space and money that was committed to cyclists and pedestrians was not proportionate to the amount of users. These are transformations that every city that undergoes densification and urban growth goes through and now Calgary is doing it.


All I know is that I find myself avoiding the belt line and some parts of downtown more and more because of how messed up shit has become with respect to bike lanes and such and better yet, I do cycle and I avoid this shit for the most part when I'm cycling as well as it just isn't well designed for cyclists and motorists alike IMHO..

Seeing people talk here makes it seem like downtown and the inner city have a bike lane on every street.

[speedog]

I do get it kertejud2, you're from of a different mindset of cyclists than I am or was. How I am or have been able to get to where I needed to be safely on a bicycle is a complete anomaly.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by speedog
I do get it kertejud2, you're from of a different mindset of cyclists than I am or was. How I am or have been able to get to where I needed to be safely on a bicycle is a complete anomaly.

I am also from a different mindset of drivers. I can get around on 12th Ave no problem so I guess I am a complete anomaly as well.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2
I am also from a different mindset of drivers. I can get around on 12th Ave no problem

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/54427137.jpg

:rofl:

[Type_S1]

just wait until we need to invest in new mini snow plows to plow the dedicated bike lanes because the .00000001% of calgary that rides their bike in the winter needs millions spent on them.

Talk about catering to the 1%. Bicycle riders are usually lower income but expect to be catered to then also go and complain about how the financial 1%ers and how life is unfair and society should help the many, not the few.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Type_S1

Talk about catering to the 1%. Bicycle riders are usually lower income but expect to be catered to then also go and complain about how the financial 1%ers and how life is unfair and society should help the many, not the few.

Catering to the 1% with 0.6% of the resources.

The horror.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Type_S1
just wait until we need to invest in new mini snow plows to plow the dedicated bike lanes because the .00000001% of calgary that rides their bike in the winter needs millions spent on them.

Talk about catering to the 1%. Bicycle riders are usually lower income but expect to be catered to then also go and complain about how the financial 1%ers and how life is unfair and society should help the many, not the few.

It's already happening. All winter long, Northland bike lanes plowed and cleared with a special plow/brush. Not a single mark in the snow indicting even one rider using it. Meanwhile vehicle lanes on the same stretch of roadway un-plowed.

Then when a plow does get the vehicle lanes it throws snow all over the unused cycle lane and out comes the special plow again, for the zero riders that use the bike lane.

It's fucking comical at this point.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Catering to the 1% with 0.6% of the resources.

The horror.

Talk about a 1 sided view. 0.6% of money doesn't matter...talk about thick headed lol. The issue is the ridiculous amount of issues this is causing for the 99%. Hundreds of thousands of man hours being lost every year now due to increased commute time, increased stress while driving, people losing money and potentially their jobs because they are late for work due to the massive congestion problem caused by the entitled 1%.

I actually am not even sure 1% of calgary commutes on a bicycle. I would think it would be less. I live in the NW and biking downtown would take well over an hour so I doubt anybody in the while area commutes using bike lanes. Talk about catering to the extremely low % of the population while causing so many issues for the masses.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Talk about a 1 sided view. 0.6% of money doesn't matter...talk about thick headed lol. The issue is the ridiculous amount of issues this is causing for the 99%. Hundreds of thousands of man hours being lost every year now due to increased commute time, increased stress while driving, people losing money and potentially their jobs because they are late for work due to the massive congestion problem caused by the entitled 1%.

I actually am not even sure 1% of calgary commutes on a bicycle. I would think it would be less. I live in the NW and biking downtown would take well over an hour so I doubt anybody in the while area commutes using bike lanes. Talk about catering to the extremely low % of the population while causing so many issues for the masses.

99% of people do not drive. In fact, most people don't drive downtown.


http://www.calgaryherald.com/people+travel+through+Calgary+downtown/10382317/story.html

The city’s 2014 “downtown cordon activity” data shows 361,000 Calgarians pass through the downtown core on average each weekday, with half now taking public transit — a significant shift over the past two decades.

“We did see a pretty significant use in transit over the last 15 to 20 years,” said Ekke Kok, manager of transportation data for the city. “It used to be, in 1996, about half the people were coming downtown by car and now it is only 39 per cent.”

During the morning rush hour, 61,000 Calgarians head into the core, with 50.1 per cent using transit, 39.3 per cent driving, 8.1 per cent walking and 2.5 per cent riding a bicycle.

[J-D]

Originally posted by kertejud2


99% of people do not drive. In fact, most people don't drive downtown.


http://www.calgaryherald.com/people+travel+through+Calgary+downtown/10382317/story.html

The city’s 2014 “downtown cordon activity” data shows 361,000 Calgarians pass through the downtown core on average each weekday, with half now taking public transit — a significant shift over the past two decades.

“We did see a pretty significant use in transit over the last 15 to 20 years,” said Ekke Kok, manager of transportation data for the city. “It used to be, in 1996, about half the people were coming downtown by car and now it is only 39 per cent.”

During the morning rush hour, 61,000 Calgarians head into the core, with 50.1 per cent using transit, 39.3 per cent driving, 8.1 per cent walking and 2.5 per cent riding a bicycle.

Right. So why do we make it harder for the transit and driving users (don't know what % of the transit numbers are bus, but they use the same roads as cars) for the 2.5% (maybe on a sunny day) bicycle users?

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by kertejud2


99% of people do not drive. In fact, most people don't drive downtown.


http://www.calgaryherald.com/people+travel+through+Calgary+downtown/10382317/story.html

The city’s 2014 “downtown cordon activity” data shows 361,000 Calgarians pass through the downtown core on average each weekday, with half now taking public transit — a significant shift over the past two decades.

“We did see a pretty significant use in transit over the last 15 to 20 years,” said Ekke Kok, manager of transportation data for the city. “It used to be, in 1996, about half the people were coming downtown by car and now it is only 39 per cent.”

During the morning rush hour, 61,000 Calgarians head into the core, with 50.1 per cent using transit, 39.3 per cent driving, 8.1 per cent walking and 2.5 per cent riding a bicycle.

Way to avoid the various issues raised. People in the majority of the city cannot ride a bike to work. We are a suburban city and that is a fact that is not changing and never will.

Let's do some fun math. From me current experience my commute has increased a minimum of 10 minutes each way with the new bike lanes being put in downtown. 61k people x 40% = 24,400 cars during rush hour. 10 minute increase in commute x 24,400 cars = 244,400 lost minutes or 4,067 lost man hours per trip. That's 8,133 lost man hours per day based on commuting to and from downtown in rush hour. This works out to 2.1 million lost man hours over the year based on 5 day work weeks. Are bicycle commuters really receiving a benefit that could offset 2.1 million lost hours to calgary citizens?

[Type_S1]

Further to the above, 2.1 million hours = the total lifetime of 3 individuals who pass away at 65. Calgary Bike lanes and our mayor have effectively decided to kill 3 individuals per year to make .1% of Calgarys commute slightly more convenient.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by J-D


Right. So why do we make it harder for the transit and driving users (don't know what % of the transit numbers are bus, but they use the same roads as cars) for the 2.5% (maybe on a sunny day) bicycle users?

Because the 2.5% can increase, and has done so in every other city that has built cycling infrastructure (both warm and cold weather cities). Driving cannot get better in this city going into downtown and only gets worse with each additional driver, regardless of whether you put in cycle tracks or not. The share of drivers has been decreasing, but hte number of cars has not been.

It is also why the lanes were built where they were. By being on the north side of 12th Ave and the east side of 5th St. you avoid interfering with bus stops, and 5th St only affects the southbound buses before it jumps back over to 4th St (where they want to build transit only lanes).

If you want to break it down to how the transportation people break it down (beyond the budget numbers), less than 1% of lane kilometres are being affected for 2.5% of current cyclists (a number which is expected to rise).

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Way to avoid the various issues raised. People in the majority of the city cannot ride a bike to work. We are a suburban city and that is a fact that is not changing and never will.

Let's do some fun math. From me current experience my commute has increased a minimum of 10 minutes each way with the new bike lanes being put in downtown. 61k people x 40% = 24,400 cars during rush hour. 10 minute increase in commute x 24,400 cars = 244,400 lost minutes or 4,067 lost man hours per trip. That's 8,133 lost man hours per day based on commuting to and from downtown in rush hour. This works out to 2.1 million lost man hours over the year based on 5 day work weeks. Are bicycle commuters really receiving a benefit that could offset 2.1 million lost hours to calgary citizens?

24,000 people do not take the same routed into downtown, and the roads affected only affect one-way commutes, so your numbers are pretty damn inflated.


But using your breakdown, let's keep the fun math going. Let's assume that all these cyclists go to the other forms of transportation: 1525 cyclists *.4 = 610 cyclists turned drivers. 610* 4.5m (rough average length of a car) = 2.745km of vehicles on the road.

To lump all drivers together like you did, that would back you up at least 8 blocks coming in and out of downtown on Centre Street. Put volume delays past Sunalta Station going into downtown on Bow Trail. Push people past Crowchild waiting at 14th St on 17th Ave etc.

Probably going to be losing 10 minutes each way as well. So killing a lot of people.


Originally posted by Type_S1
Further to the above, 2.1 million hours = the total lifetime of 3 individuals who pass away at 65. Calgary Bike lanes and our mayor have effectively decided to kill 3 individuals per year to make .1% of Calgarys commute slightly more convenient.


2.5% turns into .1% now?

You seem like you have quite the grasp on this issue.

[msommers]

LujWrkYsl64

And a follow up interview:

http://www.npr.org/2014/06/06/318553309/how-do-you-make-new-yorks-mean-streets-a-little-nicer

[J-D]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Because the 2.5% can increase, and has done so in every other city that has built cycling infrastructure (both warm and cold weather cities). Driving cannot get better in this city going into downtown and only gets worse with each additional driver, regardless of whether you put in cycle tracks or not. The share of drivers has been decreasing, but hte number of cars has not been.

It is also why the lanes were built where they were. By being on the north side of 12th Ave and the east side of 5th St. you avoid interfering with bus stops, and 5th St only affects the southbound buses before it jumps back over to 4th St (where they want to build transit only lanes).

If you want to break it down to how the transportation people break it down (beyond the budget numbers), less than 1% of lane kilometres are being affected for 2.5% of current cyclists (a number which is expected to rise).


Technically, Portland reached that wall in 2008, when the number of commuters riding downtown plateaued at just over 6% — but the city kept spending anyway.

Despite new and better cycle lanes, the number of work-day peddlers remained stagnant after ’08, even dipping slightly, while the number of cars stayed the same.

Stagnation, in the face of a landmark 2010 decision to invest $613 million into bicycle commuting, in hopes of increasing that ratio to 25% by 2030.

Six years later, the number of cyclists remains the same, and Portland is finally saying enough.

After two decades of free-wheeling finances, it seems even Portland has realized there’s only so much spending you can do for a fixed minority of commuters — and with the Oregon city in the midst of a financial rough patch, infrastructure that benefits only 6% of citizens was first to go.


The most recent Statistics Canada data shows that bike commuting in the Metro Vancouver region inched to 1.8% in 2011, from 1.7% in 2006, while in Vancouver proper, bike commuting went from 2.9% in 2008 to 3.8% in 2011.

As well, a study of separated Vancouver bike lanes published in kitsilano.ca last fall shows almost no increase in use since 2009 when they first opened.

What both cities found is that the initial investment in bike infrastructure does attract new riders, but the point of diminishing return is quickly reached — and according to an 2013 City of Calgary report, Calgary is already approaching 4.7%, as measured on a May weekday.

[mazdavirgin]

I live downtown and take 12th street to get out of downtown to go to work since some geniuses dedided to move jobs out of dowtown and into quarry park. So yeah... Can someone tell me why I would take transit to get there when it takes 3 times the amount of time to drive there? Yeah gogo transit infrastructure that doesn't serve the new areas where people are working :facepalm:

So as someone who actually lives in the ward let me tell you I am straight up pissed at this fiasco of a bike lane bullshit.

[kertejud2]

VANCOUVER -- Five years after it began a rapid expansion of separated bike lanes, Vancouver is seeing record number of cyclists use the facilities.

Helped greatly by the hot summer weather, the city says use of cycling routes and separated bike lanes is up by as much as 21 per cent over the same period last year.

Burrard Bridge, on which the city built two permanent bike lanes five years ago, has seen record traffic with 195,000 trips in July, compared with 161,000 for July, 2013. Overall, more than five million bike trips have been made across the bridge since the lanes’ inception five years ago.



Investments in bike facilities over the past decade are credited with inducing the city’s new love of bicycling. Many more residents are said to be commuting by bike, and based on Census data, DDOT says some neighborhoods like Logan Circle, Mount Pleasant and Capitol Hill have bicycle commute shares of up to 14 percent.


For those who lived within 3 miles of the Greenway, rates of bicycle commuting increased from 1.8 percent in 2000 to 3.4 percent in 2010. Biking to work increased from 1.2 percent to 1.8 percent for those living within 6 miles of the Greenway.


The organization’s annual count, conducted in September with the help of volunteers at 43 spots across the Twin Cities, jibes with the latest census data. About 11 percent of Minneapolis residents reported biking or walking to work in 2012 — an increase of 25 percent from 2011, according to the American Community Survey released in September. Minneapolis is No. 2 in the nation in bike commuting, per capita, after Portland, Ore., the survey found.

The swell of people pedaling, even in the cold, reflects a dramatic expansion of bike trails and lanes that make biking safer and more accessible, the Bike Walk Twin Cities report argues. Counts done at locations with new facilities, including bike lanes, showed bigger bumps in bicycling traffic than those without.







However what I do like about your Michael Platt article is this:

while in Vancouver proper, bike commuting went from 2.9% in 2008 to 3.8% in 2011

and

according to an 2013 City of Calgary report, Calgary is already approaching 4.7%


So I guess we can dump the weather as a reason not to build cycling infrastructure because Calgarians already (apparently) cycle more than Vancouverites do. And that is without the actual 'initial investment' in a cycle network.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
I live downtown and take 12th street to get out of downtown to go to work since some geniuses dedided to move jobs out of dowtown and into quarry park. So yeah... Can someone tell me why I would take transit to get there when it takes 3 times the amount of time to drive there? Yeah gogo transit infrastructure that doesn't serve the new areas where people are working :facepalm:

So as someone who actually lives in the ward let me tell you I am straight up pissed at this fiasco of a bike lane bullshit.

Can somebody tell me why a company would think moving to a place that is yet to be adequately serviced by any other mode than driving would be an attractive work option for their employees?

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by kertejud2
Can somebody tell me why a company would think moving to a place that is yet to be adequately serviced by any other mode than driving would be an attractive work option for their employees?

Because it's cheaper than the core and the City of Calgary effectively was the one pushing this idea in the first place? They are all for these "mini" downtowns outside of the core. I would love to be able to walk to work but the push nowadays is companies are moving out of the core and locating themselves randomly in these industrial enclaves as promoted by the City of Calgary.

It's simple really the city planners are making the core such a disaster with their parking/bike lane lunacy that companies are saying fuck it and packing it up to go move in the subburbs. I guess you have to sell your house every time you change jobs in this new car free utopia?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


Because it's cheaper than the core and the City of Calgary effectively was the one pushing this idea in the first place? They are all for these "mini" downtowns outside of the core. I would love to be able to walk to work but the push nowadays is companies are moving out of the core and locating themselves randomly in these industrial enclaves as promoted by the City of Calgary.

It's simple really the city planners are making the core such a disaster with their parking/bike lane lunacy that companies are saying fuck it and packing it up to go move in the subburbs. I guess you have to sell your house every time you change jobs in this new car free utopia?


The city wants TODs (which Quarry Park is not, but has the hopes of eventually becoming one), but is limited on how it can dictate how land is used. Quarry Park wasn't owned or developed by the city, it was just zoned by the city. The developers decided to build what they did when Imperial Oil wanted to move there. They did it to save money.

On the other hand, companies aren't really leaving downtown in the numbers you make it sound like. Millions of square feet of office space are being built downtown right now with anchor tenants. What they found is that the bulk of their current and potential workforce wants to be downtown, so this is where they should be. IO essentially fucked up when they made their move because they predicted future development wrong.

The buildings being erected now have more cycling infrastructure in them because that is what more young people want, which are the people the companies are looking to hire which is why developers are jumping on it.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/why-big-downtown-developers-are-betting-on-cyclists


Planning for cycle lanes and an increased pedestrian realm didn't make parking downtown a nightmare, the lack of it did. Planning around limited modes of transportation leaves a lot of competition for limited resources with few options. What equals a city planning failure? People being forced to move or forced to find a new job because they lack the mobility to do so. The places this happens most is places that were designed around the car and refused to try and rectify it. People who don't understand the problem blame the latter for the failings of the former.

[dino_martini]

Originally posted by Type_S1
just wait until we need to invest in new mini snow plows to plow the dedicated bike lanes because the .00000001% of calgary that rides their bike in the winter needs millions spent on them.

Talk about catering to the 1%. Bicycle riders are usually lower income but expect to be catered to then also go and complain about how the financial 1%ers and how life is unfair and society should help the many, not the few.

Its like that already. 7th ave cycle track is the best cleared piece of road I have ever seen. All winter it is Perfectly cleared right down to the pavement and that ice melting crap poured all over. Of course when I complain on twitter about this I get an earful from hipsters. This city is just straight fucked up

[schocker]

Originally posted by dino_martini
Its like that already. 7th ave cycle track is the best cleared piece of road I have ever seen. All winter it is Perfectly cleared right down to the pavement and that ice melting crap poured all over. Of course when I complain on twitter about this I get an earful from hipsters. This city is just straight fucked up
Yup, it was clean all winter with piles in the crosswalk so that I could jump a few times on my way to the office :rofl:

[clem24]

Entertaining thread... kertejud2 is actually backing up his ideas with solid arguments and a look to the future, while everyone else just sound like the mad rednecks arriving in their lifted 4x4s and pitchforks LOL. Also judging by his insights (and his prior posts) it certainly appears that he works for the city..

[schocker]

wtf is this:
http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Documents/cycling/City%20Centre%20cycle%20track/cycle-track-network-8ave-maps.pdf

Instead of removing parking on one side, remove it on both. :nut:

[JfuckinC]

5th ave is fucked. absolutely fucked. so is 12th at 8th just like said earlier in the thread. This is fucking ridiculous lol....


where do we provide feedback to the city?

[blitz]

Originally posted by schocker
wtf is this:
http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/Documents/cycling/City%20Centre%20cycle%20track/cycle-track-network-8ave-maps.pdf

Instead of removing parking on one side, remove it on both. :nut:

8th Ave was pretty dangerous for cyclists this morning with the big barriers at each intersection forcing us out into traffic to get by them :rofl:

I assumed for 8th Ave they'd just paint lines. As a cyclist I feel there was more than enough room for both cars, bikes and parking the way it was before. :dunno:

[88CRX]

Originally posted by Type_S1
Further to the above, 2.1 million hours = the total lifetime of 3 individuals who pass away at 65. Calgary Bike lanes and our mayor have effectively decided to kill 3 individuals per year to make .1% of Calgarys commute slightly more convenient.

:rofl:

Amazing haha.

[rage2]

8th Ave is just painted lines. I must've stopped traffic for a block making a left hand turn onto 6th street at lunch because I had to yield to traffic and pedestrians. There's no space to go around a left turner there anymore lol.

[Xtrema]

Some dude with protest sign is on 12th.

I can only read one as I drove by: "Nenshi-chev, tear this bike path down".

:rofl:

[msommers]

That's pretty good :rofl:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by JfuckinC
5th ave is fucked. absolutely fucked. so is 12th at 8th just like said earlier in the thread. This is fucking ridiculous lol....


where do we provide feedback to the city?

It's a joke, a complete fucking joke.

Feedback? Light up your councillors email/phone, complain to 311. Most important? Don't forget this bullshit when the next election rolls around.

[Joel_D]

Moar bike Lanes please :nut: :nut: :nut:

Bike Lanes along LRT line (http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1371697/1-3m-bike-path-along-lrt-line-north-of-calgarys-chinook-centre-a-great-idea-chu-says/)


Building a bike path along the existing LRT right-of-way that runs parallel to Macleod Trail north of Chinook Centre would cost about $1.3 million, according to a new estimate, and the idea is getting support from traditional cycling advocates and opponents alike.

I would rather see the money go towards bike racks on the front or rear of C-trains and buses for multi-mode transportation.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Joel_D
Moar bike Lanes please :nut: :nut: :nut:

Bike Lanes along LRT line (http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/1371697/1-3m-bike-path-along-lrt-line-north-of-calgarys-chinook-centre-a-great-idea-chu-says/)

This is a good idea actually because it would use a pretty much unused space that runs along aside the LRT and CP Rail tracks - much better than converting existing street infrastructure. Safer for cyclists and drivers alike because they'd truly be separated in this instance.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by speedog


This is a good idea actually because it would use a pretty much unused space that runs along aside the LRT and CP Rail tracks - much better than converting existing street infrastructure. Safer for cyclists and drivers alike because they'd truly be separated in this instance.

Agreed.

There's this idea that if you oppose these stupid bike lanes you oppose ALL bike lanes. At least in my case this isn't true. I just oppose what seems to be a "bike lanes anywhere at any cost" mentality.

Some of this bike infastructure is so poorly planned I find it hard to believe the people who've designed it even live here. Most of it looks/drives/rides like it was designed with nothing more than an aerial view.

[schocker]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Agreed.

There's this idea that if you oppose these stupid bike lanes you oppose ALL bike lanes. At least in my case this isn't true. I just oppose what seems to be a "bike lanes anywhere at any cost" mentality.

Some of this bike infastructure is so poorly planned I find it hard to believe the people who've designed it even live here. Most of it looks/drives/rides like it was designed with nothing more than an aerial view.
Yup. For example on 10th street, the buses use the bike lane as a traffic lane and just drive along inches from your car. :rofl:

[kertejud2]

Main problems w/ the LRT lane:

Lease and land acquisition and all the other things they mention means the project would cost considerably more than $1.3M

Signaling priority. Getting across McLeod and the tracks can be timely enough, so adding red lights to let cyclists go by isn't going to win any fans. Or you don't give cyclists any priority in which case it is a failed route before it begins and the idea of safety is thrown out the window. A no-win situation trying to have cyclists share priority signaling with the LRT on that stretch.

Connectivity: it separates you from drivers compared to say, McLeod. But getting to and away from this lane doesn't have any cycling infrastructure to speak of. It's a very inaccessible route.

[mazdavirgin]

Well looks like 12th Ave is now a make your own lane type street where you just randomly cut people off. People are driving through the mandatory turns and accidentally changing in and out of lanes without realizing it. Oh and the lunch trucks are now parking right in the middle of traffic lanes with explicit no parking signs?! :nut:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Well looks like 12th Ave is now a make your own lane type street where you just randomly cut people off. People are driving through the mandatory turns and accidentally changing in and out of lanes without realizing it. Oh and the lunch trucks are now parking right in the middle of traffic lanes with explicit no parking signs?! :nut:

What's fucked up is nobody is towing during no stop hours.

2 days in a roll, someone is parked and in the way. This only works if everything get towed away much like the core at 3:30pm.

On top of that, they fucked up the block in front of the school. The right most lane isn't 2 lanes but since they left it as a parking/loading zone, it's wide enough for 2 cars. That's how everyone is making their own lanes there.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Some dude with protest sign is on 12th.

I can only read one as I drove by: "Nenshi-chev, tear this bike path down".

:rofl:

:rofl: Most young people wont get this unfortunately ......

[Moonracer]

Guys they're not even done working on it yet ffs wait til it's done before you start bitching.

[rage2]

Drove the whole 8th Ave today. Cluster fuck westbound 8th Ave @ 5th street. They need to restrict left turns there since there is zero room for anyone to go around now and traffic was getting through 1 car per light change. Eastbound 8th at 6th street still fucked, same problem with left turners blocking traffic.

All the parking is gone, not even exaggerating. At this rate the city should just ban all street parking in the core today to get the pain over with, so future bike lanes aren't as painful. While they're at it ban all left turns too, cuz those are all fucked now.

The car2go clustering rules isn't necessary anymore, there are no spots for car2go's period lol. The surprising one is 8th Ave between 3rd and 4th street. The whole slanted parking area that's indented off the road is a bike lane now.

[benyl]

No need for parking when everyone is riding their bike.

I'm surprised the city is ok with the lost revenue from the loss of parking spots.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by rage2
Drove the whole 8th Ave today. Cluster fuck westbound 8th Ave @ 5th street. They need to restrict left turns there since there is zero room for anyone to go around now and traffic was getting through 1 car per light change. Eastbound 8th at 6th street still fucked, same problem with left turners blocking traffic.

All the parking is gone, not even exaggerating. At this rate the city should just ban all street parking in the core today to get the pain over with, so future bike lanes aren't as painful. While they're at it ban all left turns too, cuz those are all fucked now.

The car2go clustering rules isn't necessary anymore, there are no spots for car2go's period lol. The surprising one is 8th Ave between 3rd and 4th street. The whole slanted parking area that's indented off the road is a bike lane now.
It looks like the Ramada lost its loading zone for Taxi's as well. That's going to be bad for business.

[JfuckinC]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Agreed.

There's this idea that if you oppose these stupid bike lanes you oppose ALL bike lanes. At least in my case this isn't true. I just oppose what seems to be a "bike lanes anywhere at any cost" mentality.

Some of this bike infastructure is so poorly planned I find it hard to believe the people who've designed it even live here. Most of it looks/drives/rides like it was designed with nothing more than an aerial view.

Just this morning as i was driving down 5th st, and they had it down to one lane so they could put the bike lane parking blocks in, and people were driving through turn lanes and getting jammed up between traffic and bike lanes, i was thinking to myself, do the people that design these things use these roads ever? And the only people that post on my Facebook supporting it when I'm bitching don't even work/drive downtown haha... Beat it.

The idea of putting a bike path beside the c-train actually makes sense, so i agree on that at least? :dunno:

[rage2]

Before:

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc475/rage2amg/F147185D-7971-481B-9049-442379FE3296_zps5ocs7gpe.png

After:

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc475/rage2amg/F31242ED-1329-4E0C-A56A-089ED5B4698F_zps7v3yyd6h.jpg

Before:

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc475/rage2amg/119C4B71-0E91-442E-94A1-E1E11877C1E4_zpsndbbvqa3.png

After:

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc475/rage2amg/08D9FBC6-3569-4794-B9CB-353E672F1F3D_zpseva9fhas.jpg

I don't get why removing those spots was necessary.

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by benyl
No need for parking when everyone is riding their bike.

I'm surprised the city is ok with the lost revenue from the loss of parking spots.

City says there are more on street parking now in the downtown core.

[rage2]

Originally posted by lasimmon
City says there are more on street parking now in the downtown core.
There's no way the city said that.

edit - here's the article.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/downtown-parking-stall-gains-barely-cutting-it-keating


A report by the Calgary Parking Authority and the city’s Transportation Department to be presented Wednesday shows an overall increase of 477 stalls, while 397 parking spots were removed from Centre City areas due to the addition the city’s new cycle track network.

The net gain of 80 stalls amounts to a 1.7 per cent increase. Downtown Calgary gained 49 stalls — a 1.9 per cent increase — and Beltline gained 31 stalls — a 1.5 per cent increase, according to the report.
Where are these new stalls?

[JfuckinC]

Originally posted by rage2
Before:

*picture

After:

*picture

Before:

*picture

After:

*picture

I don't get why removing those spots was necessary.

I can't believe they did that either :rofl:

i thought bikes and skateboards and such weren't even allowed on stephen ave? Maybe i'm crazy...

[rage2]

Originally posted by JfuckinC
I can't believe they did that either :rofl:

i thought bikes and skateboards and such weren't even allowed on stephen ave? Maybe i'm crazy...
They weren't, but it never stopped people from doing it. That changes this year with bike lanes going through there.

[firebane]

Fuck bike lanes and Stephen Ave in the summer :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[schocker]

Originally posted by rage2
Where are these new stalls?
The miniature 1m spots at intersections for car2go, so REALLY an increase in spots :facepalm:

[blitz]

Originally posted by rage2
The surprising one is 8th Ave between 3rd and 4th street. The whole slanted parking area that's indented off the road is a bike lane now.

I saw that this morning while riding and my first thought was how these bike lanes are going to further sour the relationship between cyclist and motorist.

Pre-bike lanes 8th Ave was the best street downtown for riding with traffic. They could have just painted a dashed line a few feet away from the parked cars and it would have been fine. Or just a few "Share the Road" signs and a few more pictures of bicycles painted on the pavement.

[codetrap]

.

[rage2]

The article has some data.

182 spots added were from curb space review. Not sure what kind of spots they are.

114 spots added were car2go only spots.

I can't find the report anywhere, just what Herald has reported.

[flipstah]

Will these bike lanes be useful 8/12 months when it snows?