Accident question, who's at fault???

[infamous]

Ok, so I was driving last week northbound on Bonaventure drive se approaching 84 ave. (Just south of the cop shop on Bonaventure and heritage drive). There was a bicyclist waiting to cross the road, and had hit the button activating the crosswalk lights. There was a minivan waiting to turn southbound on Bonaventure drive from 84 Ave, and as the cyclist went across the road (ON HIS BIKE) he waved the minivan to go. A dodge caravan in the northbound left lane, and while the crosswalk lights are flashing, she decides to not wait for the cyclist and go through the crosswalk.

The lady turning off of 84 Ave onto southbound Bonaventure drive was watching the southbound traffic (northbound had been stopped for almost 20 seconds now), and ended up hitting the caravan that decided NOT to wait for the pedestrian.

who's at fault?

I feel the cyclist should be in trouble for not walking his bike across the street like he should have.

The van turning off of 84th would usually be in the wrong, but because the caravan was running a crosswalk that was lit, does she get off?

And the lady in the caravan should NOT have tried to go through the crosswalk with the lights flashing. if she wouldn't have been so impatient this never would have happened......

[ExtraSlow]

I can't help interpreting this situation, but my least favourite thing of ALL TIME is people waving through another driver.
The laws of right-of-way don't magically change with a wave of the hand.

This gives me road rage.

[Mibz]

I'm not a lawyer or insurance agent or police officer, but here's my internet opinion.

Cyclist failed to yield at a stop sign.
Van failed to yield at a stop sign and made an unsafe left turn.
Caravan should've been going slow enough to stop before the crosswalk because the lights were flashing.

Everybody's retarded, Van is the only one that gets a ticket.

[infamous]

Originally posted by Mibz


Everybody's retarded, Van is the only one that gets a ticket.


lol your right on everyone being retarded. it took quite a while even for the cops to figure it out. only good part is it was across the street so it took them <1 min to get there. :D before the end of the day i'll post what the cops actually did and who got a ticket(s).

[bjstare]

Women in minivans terrify me; almost as much as women in big ass SUVs.

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by infamous



lol your right on everyone being retarded. it took quite a while even for the cops to figure it out. only good part is it was across the street so it took them &lt;1 min to get there. :D before the end of the day i'll post what the cops actually did and who got a ticket(s).

The cyclist actually stayed?

[pheoxs]

I would imagine the Caravan would actually get the ticket for an unsafe left turn.

The cyclist, even though still on their bike, would probably get away with it because those laws rarely get enforced. Waving someone on is stupid, they aren't in control of traffic, I hate when people do that.

The northbound minivan went through the crosswalk, but you don't say whether it was before or after the cyclist had gone through their lane. Technically they should wait until the cyclist had cleared the road all together but people rarely do and typically go once they've crossed their individual lane.

There is nothing illegal about going through a crosswalk when the lights are flashing, provided it is safe to do so and the pedestrian has crossed. So although the Minivan went through the cross-walk while flashing it becomes sorta grey area depending if the cyclist had crossed already. Not saying they couldn't get a ticket, just that more likely than not they wouldn't.

The one thing that isn't grey in this situation is that the Caravan had a stop sign and so they are required to wait until it is safe to enter the intersection. Having a pedestrian crossing (and waving) doesn't give them the right of way, they are still required to ensure it is safe before turning left. They entered the intersection and collided by a vehicle that had the right of way.

I'm not saying I agree with it, just that this is likely who got the ticket and would be at fault insurance wise.

[FraserB]

Was this at the crosswalk where the London Drugs plaza is?

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by pheoxs

Waving someone on is stupid, they aren't in control of traffic, I hate when people do that.


:rofl: Agreed. I gave some lady shit because she pressed the light at a crosswalk and proceeded to wave me by. The car next to me actually went.

I stopped and wouldn't move an inch. After about 10 awkward seconds I finally rolled my window down and told her that if she's a pedestrian she needs to act like one and stop fucking with traffic.

She looked confused haha

Then of course there are the people who clearly stop first at a 4-way stop, and proceed to wave others through.

Jesus :facepalm:

[infamous]

Originally posted by pheoxs
I would imagine the Caravan would actually get the ticket for an unsafe left turn.

The cyclist, even though still on their bike, would probably get away with it because those laws rarely get enforced. Waving someone on is stupid, they aren't in control of traffic, I hate when people do that.

The northbound minivan went through the crosswalk, but you don't say whether it was before or after the cyclist had gone through their lane. Technically they should wait until the cyclist had cleared the road all together but people rarely do and typically go once they've crossed their individual lane.

There is nothing illegal about going through a crosswalk when the lights are flashing, provided it is safe to do so and the pedestrian has crossed. So although the Minivan went through the cross-walk while flashing it becomes sorta grey area depending if the cyclist had crossed already. Not saying they couldn't get a ticket, just that more likely than not they wouldn't.

The one thing that isn't grey in this situation is that the Caravan had a stop sign and so they are required to wait until it is safe to enter the intersection. Having a pedestrian crossing (and waving) doesn't give them the right of way, they are still required to ensure it is safe before turning left. They entered the intersection and collided by a vehicle that had the right of way.

I'm not saying I agree with it, just that this is likely who got the ticket and would be at fault insurance wise.

just so that we are clear, THE BIKER WAS STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CROSSWALK (NOT EVEN HALFWAY ACROSS) WHEN THE caravan decided to go through the crosswalk. she missed the biker by about a foot tops lol.....

[infamous]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz


The cyclist actually stayed?

he didn't stay, but left his name/number with the lady turning. the cops were already on the phone with him while we were all filling out statements....

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by rx7boi


:rofl: Agreed. I gave some lady shit because she pressed the light at a crosswalk and proceeded to wave me by. The car next to me actually went.

I stopped and wouldn't move an inch. After about 10 awkward seconds I finally rolled my window down and told her that if she's a pedestrian she needs to act like one and stop fucking with traffic.

She looked confused haha

Then of course there are the people who clearly stop first at a 4-way stop, and proceed to wave others through.

Jesus :facepalm:

Yeah, above all else the most important unwritten rule is: Be predictable.


Originally posted by infamous


just so that we are clear, THE BIKER WAS STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CROSSWALK (NOT EVEN HALFWAY ACROSS) WHEN THE caravan decided to go through the crosswalk. she missed the biker by about a foot tops lol.....

Thanks for the clarification. But now I'm more confused what happened. Northbound traffic was stopped for 20 seconds, then the Minivan decides to go and narrowly misses the cyclist, still on his bike.

Did the cyclist stop in the middle of the intersection or something to wave this Caravan on? How does it take anywhere near that long to cross a 4 laned road (on a bike non the less?)

[FraserB]

Actual collision:

Van turning southbound from 84th gets a ticket for unsafe left turn and is 100% at fault in the matter of insurance. The person who drove through the crosswalk gets no ticket related to the accident since driving across the potential path of the left turning van is legal and they don't have to yield to the vehicle that wants to turn off a side street. Being waved out does not remove the responsibility to ensure the path of travel is clear.


Crosswalk violation:

The person who ran the crosswalk and nearly hit the cyclist gets a failure to yield ticket.


Cyclist waving to left turning car:

The cyclist can probably expect a call from the van's insurance company, whether or not they get held partly accountable is debatable. Stunting ticket for the cyclist would be thin and would probably be tossed in court, but could see it being issued.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by FraserB
Crosswalk violation:

The person who ran the crosswalk and nearly hit the cyclist gets a failure to yield ticket. Mounted cyclists don't get right of way at crosswalks, lit or not. They're vehicles. Cyclist should get the failure to yield ticket, not the Caravan.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Mibz
Mounted cyclists don't get right of way at crosswalks, lit or not. They're vehicles. Cyclist should get the failure to yield ticket, not the Caravan.

Upon reading the TSA, it appears that "pedestrian" is narrowly defined. In that case, I would take the ticket for failure to yield from the van and give the cyclist a stop sign ticket since there is a sign on the E/W portion on the intersection in question.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear there was a failure to yield ticket issued to the driver for going through the crosswalk though. Looks like this ticket could be fought pretty easily since, like you said, a mounted cyclist is not a pedestrian and the a driver would not have to yield right of way (even in a crosswalk)

[max_boost]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I can't help interpreting this situation, but my least favourite thing of ALL TIME is people waving through another driver.
The laws of right-of-way don't magically change with a wave of the hand.

This gives me road rage. Yes. Fuck the wave. :thumbsup:

[ercchry]

there was no pedestrian present, the only illegal maneuvers were the one turning left and the dipshit cyclist that makes up his own rules. should be cut and dry, but i find it rare that anyone in this city could even find their own asshole with both hands, so i wouldnt be surprised if the outcome isnt as predicted

[pheoxs]

I'm even more confused by this. The crosswalk is on the north side of the intersection. How did the caravan (West, turning left) and minivan (North, going straight) collide and the minivan also drive through the crosswalk almost hitting the cyclist? The cars would've hit each other first.

Did the minivan just keep going after the collision?

[infamous]

Originally posted by pheoxs


Thanks for the clarification. But now I'm more confused what happened. Northbound traffic was stopped for 20 seconds, then the Minivan decides to go and narrowly misses the cyclist, still on his bike.

Did the cyclist stop in the middle of the intersection or something to wave this Caravan on? How does it take anywhere near that long to cross a 4 laned road (on a bike non the less?)

ok, so the cyclist got a quarter of the way across the road before stopping to wave the lady through...I've created a bit of a picture to try and help everyone understand lol....

PARDON MY AWESOME PAINT SKILLS :D

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u150/infamous3469/ACCIDENTLOL_zpsakgqqujh.png

oh, and the lady in the caravan almost hit the biker, the other van turning left off of 84th was watching the southbound traffic on Bonaventure, and the lady hit the rear wheel area of the caravan. caravan almost ran over buddy on the bike and then slammed on her brakes.

[infamous]

Originally posted by FraserB
Actual collision:

Van turning southbound from 84th gets a ticket for unsafe left turn and is 100% at fault in the matter of insurance. The person who drove through the crosswalk gets no ticket related to the accident since driving across the potential path of the left turning van is legal and they don't have to yield to the vehicle that wants to turn off a side street. Being waved out does not remove the responsibility to ensure the path of travel is clear.


Crosswalk violation:

The person who ran the crosswalk and nearly hit the cyclist gets a failure to yield ticket.


Cyclist waving to left turning car:

The cyclist can probably expect a call from the van's insurance company, whether or not they get held partly accountable is debatable. Stunting ticket for the cyclist would be thin and would probably be tossed in court, but could see it being issued.

:werd: this is exactly what happened, the cop wanted to give the bike rider a ticket, but he knew it wouldn't hold up. caravan got the failure to yield ticket and the van turning left got an unsafe left turn ticket.

[OTown]

Although the van did make an unsafe left turn, its technically not an unsafe left turn ticket. As there was a stop sign, the van should be getting a Proceed unsafely after stopping ticket.


Proceeding after stopping
38 When a person driving a vehicle is required to stop the vehicle
pursuant to section 36 or 37, that person
(a) shall not cause the vehicle to proceed until the condition
of the traffic on the highway being entered on is such that
the vehicle can enter onto the highway in safety, and
(b) shall yield the right of way to all vehicles and pedestrians
approaching that person’s vehicle and that are on the
highway being entered.