NDP and coal fired power plants

[16hypen3sp]

Everyone knows about Notleys planned phase out of coal fired power plants. This article is interesting.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/notley-looks-to-ontario-as-she-gets-ready-to-phase-out-alberta-coal-plants-and-offer-subsidies-for-solar-and-wind


I'm curious. There are some members of this forum that are involved either directly or indirectly with the power generation industry. I'd like to know what they think about this. Is there any real plan forward with this? Will our bills skyrocket? What's the word from the industry on Notleys plan?

[dirtsniffer]

well not to good for thermal coal producers in the area.

Won't affect end users much as the coal will be supplanted by gas turbine co-generation.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
well not to good for thermal coal producers in the area.

Won't affect end users much as the coal will be supplanted by gas turbine co-generation.

Correct. Much like ENMAXs 800MW Sheppard plant.

Just commissioned and can supply half of Calgary if required.

[ZenOps]

Coal plants here are the envy of the world. How can I tell? Because the internet DNS servers from the US tend to block access to the pages in Canada that refer to what we pay for electricity per kwh, and still make profits. A Hawaiian paying 36 US cents per kwh really does not need to know that Calgarians pay < 6 cents Canadian per kwh (arguably, its like 5 cents US per kwh)

We can afford to dabble in both solar and wind in Alberta. It won't be as powerful as say, a city that has the sun go directly overtop a desert (we are always at a northern angle, and a devastatingly short and low sun angle in the winter)

But reason will come into play, you don't invest heavily in solar in Calgary if you only get a few hours of light in December at a hard to catch angle.

http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/calgary?month=12

Not surprisingly, areas where the sun passes directly overhead with the highest intensity on the earth can produce the most solar power.

"The central and the eastern part of the Great Desert receive over 3,600 h (about 82% of the time) of bright sunshine annually amounting to nearly 4,000 h where the borders of Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Chad and Niger meet.[6] In the belt encompassing northern Chad with the Tibesti Mountains, northern Sudan, southern Libya and Upper Egypt, the sunshine duration easily surpasses 4,000 h and this is the sunniest vast region in the world. Percentages of sunshine soar up to 95% in these sun-drenched deserts."

[J-D]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
Everyone knows about Notleys planned phase out of coal fired power plants. This article is interesting.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/notley-looks-to-ontario-as-she-gets-ready-to-phase-out-alberta-coal-plants-and-offer-subsidies-for-solar-and-wind


I'm curious. There are some members of this forum that are involved either directly or indirectly with the power generation industry. I'd like to know what they think about this. Is there any real plan forward with this? Will our bills skyrocket? What's the word from the industry on Notleys plan?

I think Bruce Power still has the rights to build a nuclear plant in Alberta. My understanding is that the government would have to de-risk some of the capital aspects before it'd make sense though.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
well not to good for thermal coal producers in the area.

Won't affect end users much as the coal will be supplanted by gas turbine co-generation.

Originally posted by Darkane


Correct. Much like ENMAXs 800MW Sheppard plant.

Just commissioned and can supply half of Calgary if required.

I'd agree with both of you, however, I haven't read an article yet where Notley says she'd consider more co-gen plants. Plus, you'd have to feed those plants with nat gas, which means more gas extraction, conventional/fracking, and more pipelines. Am I wrong on that? Are the NDP just as against gas pipelines as they are oil pipelines?


Originally posted by J-D


I think Bruce Power still has the rights to build a nuclear plant in Alberta. My understanding is that the government would have to de-risk some of the capital aspects before it'd make sense though.

And the general public would have to get behind it... lots of NIMBYs out there.

[R154]

If it is replaced with natural gas cogen plants, I'll be doing back flips. Any new plants being built puts money in my pocket. If she does it, I'll vote ndp the rest of my Alberta life.

[Gainsbarre]

Natural gas-fired combined cycle plants (e.g. Sundance 7/8/9, Heartland, Genesee 4/5) were already on the books to replace baseload coal-fired plants -- now we might just see timelines accelerated. If natural gas prices stay at their current levels (and the general consensus out there is that they will), I don't expect power prices to significantly increase as a result of the switch from coal-fired plants to natural-gas fired combined cycle plants. Cogeneration units are only built to support an industrial process (where electricity is produced and sold as a by-product).

I don't expect nuclear power plants in Alberta anytime in the next 10 years (if ever). Capital costs for nuclear power plants have skyrocketed in recent years, making them far less atrractive compared to natural gas combined cycle.

[ZenOps]

External demand for natgas fueled electricity will be high this year.

Santa Barbara should be powering up its desalination plant right about now. 31.3 MW on a constant basis, running off the adjacent power plant.

Carlsbad desalination should be online by year end. Uses 588 MW on a constant basis, and mostly uses nagas/oil. Estimated about $2,000 per acre foot of drinkable water.

But it will still not be enough for a Californian to have a full length shower.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Gainsbarre
Natural gas-fired combined cycle plants (e.g. Sundance 7/8/9, Heartland, Genesee 4/5) were already on the books to replace baseload coal-fired plants -- now we might just see timelines accelerated. If natural gas prices stay at their current levels (and the general consensus out there is that they will), I don't expect power prices to significantly increase as a result of the switch from coal-fired plants to natural-gas fired combined cycle plants. Cogeneration units are only built to support an industrial process (where electricity is produced and sold as a by-product).

I don't expect nuclear power plants in Alberta anytime in the next 10 years (if ever). Capital costs for nuclear power plants have skyrocketed in recent years, making them far less atrractive compared to natural gas combined cycle. NG plants just seem to take forever to build, not sure there's really any opportunity to accelerate their construction. They've been building them like mad in the US for years now, some are finally starting to come online.

Too bad about nuclear, there's a lot of uranium in Alberta.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by R154
If it is replaced with natural gas cogen plants, I'll be doing back flips. Any new plants being built puts money in my pocket. If she does it, I'll vote ndp the rest of my Alberta life.

Feed some more sweets to the ignorant. In other words, if they don't fuck with my life style, then fuck everyone else.

Got news for ya buddy. that mind set is counter productive to human development, and is leading us to total destruction. Yes, that means babies will starve to death.

As far as the current topic goes? Well learn the chain of command and start a new thread. I dare you.

Oh wait, there is no actual chain of command. Buying out the media has solved that problem.

Except, the internet came along. Now watch for "the guys that be" try to censor the knowledge that the average human is a slave to corruption and most importantly, greed.

[atgilchrist]

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2013/03/28/28-09-jack-nicholson-the-shinning.nocrop.w529.h316.2x.jpg

Gas is a great idea, especially cogen where available.

[redblack]

They need to build more wind farms.

[jacky4566]

Originally posted by suntan


Too bad about nuclear, there's a lot of uranium in Alberta.

Is there? What ever happened to the Nuclear plant in Peace River?

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by redblack
They need to build more wind farms.

Wind is the future of this province! :thumbsup: