The Confederate Flag: Still at war

[Sugarphreak]

...

[vengie]

I understand the sensitive issue surrounding the meaning of the flag. But it truly bothered me when they took the flag down at the Confederate Memorial.

All of those soldiers fought and died for that flag, for a belief they all had. Whether or not it is the correct belief by today's standards is irrelevant.

The sensitivity of the population today is actually disgusting.

[msommers]

The winds of change are strong these days. Southerns have always been sticklers for keeping things the same but it's welcoming to hear these discussions are even taking place.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/19/benjamin-tillman-south-carolina_n_7622334.html

Freedom of expression isn't under attack. Racist as fuck KKK members can still have rallies if they want. But corporate entities can do as they will (ie: conform to the common societal mentality) to remain profitable. Something tells me that Walmart doesn't care if they're racist or not. But taking these flags down could insinuate that they aren't, solely to attract black-coloured customers.

[benyl]

Originally posted by vengie

All of those soldiers fought and died for that flag, for a belief they all had. Whether or not it is the correct belief by today's standards is irrelevant.

The sensitivity of the population today is actually disgusting.

I am guessing you don't support the renaming of the Langevin bridge either then?

[vengie]

Originally posted by benyl


I am guessing you don't support the renaming of the Langevin bridge either then?

Doesn't bother me at all :dunno: however it isn't relevant in this conversation.

My great granparents were in Residential schools growing up, before they passed away I asked my grandmother about it, to paraphrase she literally said "Yes it was horrible, but I am past it, I am over it, I am the person I am today because of my experiences." She got over it, and so should everyone else, it was in the past.

It also doesn't bother me that the US is trying to abolish the confederate flag, I don't believe in what it stands for either. However it DOES bother me that they are removing it from the Confederate War memorial, which is extremely disrespectful of all the soldiers who fought and died for that flag.

Either way, our history should be embraced, it'll never be changed, putting a bandaid on an issue does nothing. Accept it, move on.

[YCB]

vcuWj4MR-SU

[suntan]

White people and their overt racism.

But now the flag is verboten, so racism is solved! :rolleyes:

[Sugarphreak]

...

[NoPulp]

I don't agree with removal of the flag where it still has a historical meaning.

The flag should definitely be removed where it's inappropriatly used. If you display the flag it doesn't mean you're redneck/country/cool...

Like wearing clothing with the flag on it, not cool.
Flying the flag off the back of your lifted pick up, not cool.


Especially in canada, wtf.


On the General Lee, well that's an exception. Still cool.

[suntan]

Originally posted by NoPulp
The flag should definitely be removed where it's inappropriatly used. Isn't that true of basically, well, anything?

[rx7_turbo2]

Removing a flag or re-naming a bridge doesn't rewrite history.

[NoPulp]

Originally posted by suntan
Isn't that true of basically, well, anything?

No. I think if it has a historical meaning, such as a memorial or museum, it's perfectly fine. It's inappropriatly used if it's used to represent something it doesn't truly represent. Such as being a redneck truck driver

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by NoPulp
The flag should definitely be removed where it's inappropriatly used.

And who decides "inappropriate"?

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind "it's appropriate here but not there." If it's appropriate in public at one place why not another?

I wouldn't personally rock a Confed flag, I also wouldn't stroll around wearing a Justin Bieber shirt, but I'm not all that offended when other people do, again rocking the flag or wearing the shirt doesn't change the fact the war happened and Justin Bieber exists.

[NoPulp]

I think it's pretty "black and white" what's appropriate and what's not. Maybe that's just me.

Edit: I didn't mean that racially. *face palm*

[sputnik]

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m335/dmhlt48/Civil%20Rights/Confederate-Flag-that-Matters_white_surrender_zpsvzx0p8o7.jpg

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by NoPulp
I think it's pretty "black and white" what's appropriate and what's not. Maybe that's just me.

It's just you ;)

Nothing is "black and white" about it. It's actually a pretty complicated and emotionally heated scenario. If it was "black and white" would there be this much controversy surrounding it?

[vengie]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


It's just you ;)

Nothing is "black and white" about it. It's actually a pretty complicated and emotionally heated scenario. If it was "black and white" would there be this much controversy surrounding it?

I mean... TECHNICALLY it is "Black" and "White".

[FraserB]

So they want to get rid of the Virginia Battle Flag, not one of flags of the Confederate States of America?

Or are people just calling it the wrong thing?

[suntan]

Originally posted by NoPulp


No. I think if it has a historical meaning, such as a memorial or museum, it's perfectly fine. It's inappropriatly used if it's used to represent something it doesn't truly represent. Such as being a redneck truck driver You're agreeing with me. Context is important. So what does Amazon not selling the flag have to do with anything?

[NoPulp]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


It's just you ;)

Nothing is "black and white" about it. It's actually a pretty complicated and emotionally heated scenario. If it was "black and white" would there be this much controversy surrounding it?

That doesn't mean anything lol. People can have debates over the stupidest things, especially Americans... but yeah you're right I suppose.

[Xaroxantu Zero]

Originally posted by sputnik
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m335/dmhlt48/Civil%20Rights/Confederate-Flag-that-Matters_white_surrender_zpsvzx0p8o7.jpg

Funny you mentioned that:

ULBCuHIpNgU

[E46..sTyLez]

So they are getting rid of the confederate flag, and the US Supreme Court is allowing gay marriage...in the same day? Some rednecks gone be pissed lol

[FixedGear]

The debate is mainly about whether the flag should be flown at the South Carolina capitol - all of the retailers pulling it has been their own decision.

As an american, I do not think the government should be flying the flag of a regime that promoted slavery. Slavery is still a very sensitive issue in the US, and I can't imagine what it would be like to be an African American and having to look at that flag fly above your state capitol. It would be similar to being Jewish, and seeing the swastika flying over german bundestag.

[GTS4tw]

Originally posted by FraserB
So they want to get rid of the Virginia Battle Flag, not one of flags of the Confederate States of America?

Or are people just calling it the wrong thing?

the people who are for this are actually, literally retarded (not an insult, I mean the actual definition). They will not understand your comment, but will be belligerent about it anyway.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by FixedGear
It would be similar to being Jewish, and seeing the swastika flying over german bundestag.

That was going to be my argument.

I saw some clip out there a couple days ago, but obviously forgot now, where the superficial (though still valid, I think) argument is that the Confederates lost the Civil War, and losers don't get to fly their flag in the capital. It's not the end all be all of the debate, but I think it's definitely a valid point.

[GTS4tw]

Sucks to be Mississippi.......

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Flag_of_Mississippi.svg/2000px-Flag_of_Mississippi.svg.png

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ZenOps]

Its pretty obvious the south lost.

Hawaiian welfare recipient, probably of polynesian origin $60,950 US in welfare benefits. Most southern states $14,500 US in welfare benefits.

Convert that to Canadian, and you would have to be positively insane to not be a welfare bum in Hawaii and make Texas and all those confederate losers pay for it.

Haha! You lose, you pay - its the American way.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by vengie

All of those soldiers fought and died for that flag, for a belief they all had. Whether or not it is the correct belief by today's standards is irrelevant.

The sensitivity of the population today is actually disgusting.
they should build a huge memorial in Germany with the Nazi flag proudly flying there.

Hitler and all those SS soldiers fought and died for that flag, for a belief they all had. Whether or not it is the correct belief by today's standards is irrelevant.

:rolleyes:

[Fly Fishin']

Fuck em, no one is proud of their Nazi grand parents. Why are these guys any different.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Fly Fishin'
Fuck em, no one is proud of their Nazi grand parents.

That's not even remotely true. Do you know any German people whose grandparents fought in the war? Many are still extremely proud of their grandparents. Not all German soldiers were Nazi war criminals.

[Feruk]

The confederate flag is a flag of treason and slavery. Honestly, it's not that much different a symbol than the swastika.

[vengie]

Originally posted by sabad66

they should build a huge memorial in Germany with the Nazi flag proudly flying there.

Hitler and all those SS soldiers fought and died for that flag, for a belief they all had. Whether or not it is the correct belief by today's standards is irrelevant.

:rolleyes:

You know... there are plenty "Third Reich" memorials in Germany.

If you are unaware what the "Third Reich" was, look it up.

Hitler and several members of the SS are convicted war criminals, those individuals should not be publicly remembered, but not every soldier who fought for Germany had the same twisted beliefs of the SS. They fought and died for their country.

[rage2]

The General Lee is losing the flag. Lynyrd Skynyrd is losing it too. The terrorists have won. :(

[killramos]

The fact that this is being debated is ridiculous. Let people fly whatever flag they want, like it or not its part of their culture and history and flying a "confederate" flag has nothing to do with why some crazy guy walked into a church and killed 9 black people.

This is nearly as stupid as the debate in city council this week about painting a crosswalk on 17th rainbow colors to promote gay pride :nut:

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by vengie
You know... there are plenty "Third Reich" memorials in Germany.

If you are unaware what the "Third Reich" was, look it up.

Hitler and several members of the SS are convicted war criminals, those individuals should not be publicly remembered, but not every soldier who fought for Germany had the same twisted beliefs of the SS. They fought and died for their country.

Yep. Like my Opa. He didn't commit any atrocities. In fact, he was a simple farmer whom was recruited into the Luftwaffe. The Allies did a lot of horrible stuff as well to the German people. Like fire bombing the shit out of my Oma's town. Or summary executions of Waffen SS officers by our good ol' Canadian boys in the process of liberating the camps etc.

I'm extremely proud of my Opa and the German people in general for rising up against that ridiculous treaty of versailles. Let's not have that feat be tainted by the later evil inflicted by Hitler & co on the Jewish people.

War is inherently evil. Churchill in fact was quite a racist fellow. He didn't have a lot of good to say about brown people in India. I believe that he actually shot a few of them for sport. Blows my mind.

Look at Erwin Rommel. My profile picture lol. He's the perfect example of someone who drew the line between his allegiance to Germany and Hitler's master plan. For that, he paid the price.

[mazdavirgin]

I'm frankly amazed at the revisionism of history going down. The American Civil war was NOT fought because of slavery. It was fought to prevent the destruction of the Union. Anyone who tells you otherwise is bending history for their political agenda. This was not a good guy vs bad guy war. There was Union states where slavery was legal that participated in the war. :nut:

[g-m]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point


Yep. Like my Opa. He didn't commit any atrocities. In fact, he was a simple farmer whom was recruited into the Luftwaffe. The Allies did a lot of horrible stuff as well to the German people. Like fire bombing the shit out of my Oma's town. Or summary executions of Waffen SS officers by our good ol' Canadian boys in the process of liberating the camps etc.

I'm extremely proud of my Opa and the German people in general for rising up against that ridiculous treaty of versailles. Let's not have that feat be tainted by the later evil inflicted by Hitler & co on the Jewish people.

War is inherently evil. Churchill in fact was quite a racist fellow. He didn't have a lot of good to say about brown people in India. I believe that he actually shot a few of them for sport. Blows my mind.

Look at Erwin Rommel. My profile picture lol. He's the perfect example of someone who drew the line between his allegiance to Germany and Hitler's master plan. For that, he paid the price.

Yea my grandparent's parents had such a good experience with WWI that as soon as my Opa could, he jumped on a boat for Canada around 1943-44. Not everyone agreed with Hitler but the SS was so pervasive and the consequences so bad, that people had to. See what they did to the jews? They'd do similar for treason. People didn't have a choice.

[schurchill39]

What blows my mind over all of this oversensitive bullshit thats rampant in today's society is that 1 month ago no one was talking about this, now its all over the news. Its the same as people changing sport team names or school names because some sensitive pussy got offended. In my home town there are a couple of white students trying to change their highschool team name from the Mohawks because they find it offensive. The schoolboard went to the local bands and they had no problem with it.

Its just absolutely astonishing.

[A790]

Originally posted by schurchill39
What blows my mind over all of this oversensitive bullshit thats rampant in today's society is that 1 month ago no one was talking about this, now its all over the news. Its the same as people changing sport team names or school names because some sensitive pussy got offended. In my home town there are a couple of white students trying to change their highschool team name from the Mohawks because they find it offensive. The schoolboard went to the local bands and they had no problem with it.

Its just absolutely astonishing.
A guy went and murdered a bunch of people. Promoted racism & the confederacy.

Listen, I agree with you regarding the SJWification of our society, but I don't feel that the issue with the flag is a result of that.

It's the result of a mass-murder bringing to light some of the archaic and racist practices still taking place in some parts of the USA.