Lease question

[CompletelyNumb]

Howdy,

I have a lease on a house valid until July 31. It has been paid in full. I moved out of the property last month and informed the landlord I would not renew the lease.

I've since found out the landlord has gone in and done work, as well as changed the locks.

Thisbcant be legal, can it? A lease is a lease, regardless of whether I'm living there. I paid rent for the month of July. He gets his keys back at noon on the 31st as per Alberta law.

I'm not wrong, am I?

[A790]

Nope, you aren't.

[lilmira]

Just call him in the middle of the night saying that you can't get back in.
Once you get back in, call him back in an hour saying that some nut job has been working inside.

Or did you tell him that you already moved out?

[lasimmon]

Yup if you paid it's yours.

Just happened to my gf. She moved out this month but paid till end of august. They asked if they could have people come in to look and move in in august.. She said of course, if she gets her rent back.

Well they found someone to rent it and she got her money.

[A790]

So, here's the real question: what are you looking to accomplish? If you've already moved out and no "harm" was done to you, what result are you seeking?

I'm asking because you may find yourself opening up a can of worms for really no reason.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that the courts aren't about "Justice" or "Principle". It will be a time sink to pursue it. Just my $0.02.

[Rocket1k78]

Originally posted by A790
So, here's the real question: what are you looking to accomplish? If you've already moved out and no "harm" was done to you, what result are you seeking?

I'm asking because you may find yourself opening up a can of worms for really no reason.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that the courts aren't about "Justice" or "Principle". It will be a time sink to pursue it. Just my $0.02.

Exactly!

It 100% is your place until july 31 though.

[HomespunLobster]

Originally posted by A790
So, here's the real question: what are you looking to accomplish? If you've already moved out and no "harm" was done to you, what result are you seeking?

I'm asking because you may find yourself opening up a can of worms for really no reason.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that the courts aren't about "Justice" or "Principle". It will be a time sink to pursue it. Just my $0.02.

The way I see it if he wanted to get back in to renovate, it's now being 'lived in' by the landlord. The tenant should get a refund on the property for the month if that's what was going on. True, no harm was done, but at the same time the landlord got a free months rent for renovations and showings.

[AE92_TreunoSC]

When I leased I handed keys over early to avoid this and freeze my utilities ASAP.

Feels wrong but in the end if its not occupied then its just water under the bridge.

[CompletelyNumb]

No harm was done to me, no. I'm merely offended he'd take advantage of the situation.

I simply emailed him, explaining he was in the wrong to enter the property with telling me and changing the locks. Asked him to refund half a months rent, and I would gladly drop it. Otherwise, I'll just file a complaint with RTDRS and get a legally binding judgement from them. I have phoned them and they supported my case, suggested I file a complaint.

Guess we'll see what happens.

[A790]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
No harm was done to me, no. I'm merely offended he'd take advantage of the situation.

I simply emailed him, explaining he was in the wrong to enter the property with telling me and changing the locks. Asked him to refund half a months rent, and I would gladly drop it. Otherwise, I'll just file a complaint with RTDRS and get a legally binding judgement from them. I have phoned them and they supported my case, suggested I file a complaint.

Guess we'll see what happens.
Yea, that's fair.

I wasn't saying to/not to pursue it. I was just pointing out that it may be more trouble than it's worth to pursue.

Either way, I'm curious to hear the outcome.

[SOAB]

let me get this straight.

you informed your landlord that you were moving before the end of your lease.
your lease was paid in full until the end of July and the house was sitting empty.
you had no plans of moving back in for the month of July.

what's the big deal? to me, it seems like wasted energy on your part. you moved out early on a lease and didn't ask for a refund (which imo you shouldn't get) and he figured you were gone so went ahead and did some repairs on his investment for the next renters to come in.

so you find out that he has gone in and worked on a house that you no longer live in and you feel slighted? or is it because he didn't offer to refund your 1 month rent to you?

if it meant this much to you in the beginning, you should have just told him that you were not extending your lease and would leave at the end of July.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by SOAB
if it meant this much to you in the beginning, you should have just told him that you were not extending your lease and would leave at the end of July.

I also think it should be negotiated up front about the refund instead get pissed off afterward that landlord double dipped.

[gwill]

Laws don't exist so people can pick and choose what they want to follow in life. If I was the op I would strengthen his case by trying to enter the house again to grab items he "left behind". Call the police when you show up so they have that on record.

Show the landlord you'll sue his ass for items missing and having no access to a home that's legally rented to you.

That might be a quicker way to get your money back. If the landlord wants to pretend the law doesn't exist for him make him realize he can't live there when it's rented to you. Have the police evict him. Get the locks changed back... Be a nuisance so he steps back In line.

[SOAB]

seems to me like the OP is just butthurt because the landlord took advantage of a situation that was in his favor.

if you move out of a house and don't plan on returning to it, what does it matter? are you really willing to commit fraud like gwill is recommending because YOU decided to move out on a lease early?

sounds like a bunch of shit that belongs in the crazy ex-girlfriends thread.

I think when you gave notice and moved out early on your lease, you forfeited your right to the place. law or not, it's right in my mind.

[dirtsniffer]

He's still paying and it's still leased so it is still his. pretty clear he is in the right.

[A790]

Originally posted by SOAB
seems to me like the OP is just butthurt because the landlord took advantage of a situation that was in his favor.

if you move out of a house and don't plan on returning to it, what does it matter? are you really willing to commit fraud like gwill is recommending because YOU decided to move out on a lease early?

sounds like a bunch of shit that belongs in the crazy ex-girlfriends thread.

I think when you gave notice and moved out early on your lease, you forfeited your right to the place. law or not, it's right in my mind.
OP has every right to be upset. The law is on his side, and that is why he is right.

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
He's still paying and it's still leased so it is still his. pretty clear he is in the right.
I think that is clear to everyone but SOAB. My point is that, while he may be right, that doesn't mean it's worth pursuing.

[Rocket1k78]

Originally posted by gwill
If I was the op I would strengthen his case by trying to enter the house again to grab items he "left behind". Call the police when you show up so they have that on record.

Show the landlord you'll sue his ass for items missing and having no access to a home that's legally rented to you.


Please enlighten us on how you think fabricating a story of missing items is going to help his cause?

[SOAB]

the law may be black and white but my world is not. this situation seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill.

the OP gave the landlord his notice of his intent on moving out early, therefore breaking his lease. does giving the landlord notice means nothing? what if it was 3 months early? or 6 months? should the landlord have to just leave the property vacant while nobody lives there?

if I rent a car for a week and return it the morning and legally I have it rented until 11pm of that day, I feel like I have would have no right to tell the car rental place that they can't clean the car and fill it with gas until the agreed upon return time.

the OP has already moved on. he has no use of this place. he's probably upset that breaking a lease early didn't work out in his favor.

[jwslam]

^ I disagree.

In the case of the car rental, sure you paid for the use of the vehicle up til 11pm, but you VOLUNTARILY gave up the use of it by returning it early.

In the case of the OP, he did not return the keys to the property and has paid for the right to use it up to the lease termination date.

[JustinMCS]

Originally posted by SOAB

the OP gave the landlord his notice of his intent on moving out early, therefore breaking his lease.

Moving out early and breaking a lease are two separate things.

The only issue with moving out early is that the place is still the tenant's responsibility until the end of the lease. Most leases stipulate that you must be checking in on the place every 36 hours (to fulfil insurance requirements.) If OP was ok with fulfilling his requirements as a tenant, even though he moved out, he was still in accordance with the lease and the place is to do what he likes.

If he rents the place for 6 months and only stays for 3, but fulfils the lease, the owner can't go in and "double dip" just because it's empty.

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by SOAB
let me get this straight.

you informed your landlord that you were moving before the end of your lease.
your lease was paid in full until the end of July and the house was sitting empty.
you had no plans of moving back in for the month of July.



Nice work putting words in my mouth. I never said that I told the landlord I was moving elsewhere in June. I said I wasn't renewing my lease.

I also never said the property was sitting empty, I said I wasn't living there. As a matter of fact I still have some property atbyhe old house I was planning on moving prior to month end.

You're clearly angry about something, of what I'm not sure. Either way, he broke the law. Cut and dry. Its not about fairness or being butthurt. He entered my leased property without notice, did a walkthrough without me present, and changed the locks. Not once was I informed of anything.

I didn't want a "refund because I moved out". I didn't want to pay rent on a place that I was illegally locked out of. Nice try on the trolling though soab.
:whocares:


And Cam, since you were curious, I ultimately decided not to persue it. After posting this I learned my prior roommate contacted the landlord after I moved out essentially saying " the place is vacant, I want my half of the DD back". I wasn't aware of this. He's still in the wrong for what he did, but after learning this I didn't want the drama.

[Xtrema]

End of the day, the proper way to handle this is early termination and if unit is rented out, the tenant should get balance of whatever weeks that the unit is occupied.


Originally posted by CompletelyNumb



Nice work putting words in my mouth. I never said that I told the landlord I was moving elsewhere in June. I said I wasn't renewing my lease.

I also never said the property was sitting empty, I said I wasn't living there. As a matter of fact I still have some property atbyhe old house I was planning on moving prior to month end.

You're clearly angry about something, of what I'm not sure. Either way, he broke the law. Cut and dry. Its not about fairness or being butthurt. He entered my leased property without notice, did a walkthrough without me present, and changed the locks. Not once was I informed of anything.

I didn't want a "refund because I moved out". I didn't want to pay rent on a place that I was illegally locked out of. Nice try on the trolling though soab.
:whocares:


And Cam, since you were curious, I ultimately decided not to persue it. After posting this I learned my prior roommate contacted the landlord after I moved out essentially saying " the place is vacant, I want my half of the DD back". I wasn't aware of this. He's still in the wrong for what he did, but after learning this I didn't want the drama.

You are completely in the right, fuck the landlord.

[SOAB]

trust me, I don't really give a shit one way or another. you could go ahead and sue the landlord for all I care. I'm just giving my viewpoint based on the info I have. just because it doesn't agree with yours, doesn't mean its wrong.

my question is would you have gone back to mow the lawn, take in the mail, etc if it was still your responsibility? probably not. most renters don't give a shit about the place they live in. what makes you different?

you and your roommate obviously vacated the place. the landlord was told that it was now vacant so IMO he has every right to go in and make repairs and make sure that the previous renters can't go in afterwards and trash the place.

anyway, I'm done. like I said, I don't give a shit.

[TomcoPDR]

OP, are utilities under your name? So are you paying for July utilities?

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by SOAB


my question is would you have gone back to mow the lawn, take in the mail, etc if it was still your responsibility? probably not. most renters don't give a shit about the place they live in. what makes you different?

Um, yes. I would have. Part of getting your damage deposit back is returning the property in the same condition you received it in.



you and your roommate obviously vacated the place. the landlord was told that it was now vacant so IMO he has every right to go in and make repairs and make sure that the previous renters can't go in afterwards and trash the place..

A fact you were not aware of until 10 minutes ago when I posted it.

And for the record, I talked to RTDRS and gave them all the facts. They said the landlord was still in the wrong. Just so its black and white for everyone reading.

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR
OP, are utilities under your name? So are you paying for July utilities?

Yes. Enmax specifically asked "until what date are you responsible for the property". I shut off the gas, water and power when i moved though so I don't expect it to be much.:dunno:

[gwill]

Originally posted by SOAB


I think when you gave notice and moved out early on your lease, you forfeited your right to the place. law or not, it's right in my mind.

I like to speed... Law or not it's right in my mind. Same thing with drunk driving, the occasional murder and whatever else I feel is right. Imagine if that's the way we could treat laws? We'd be living in the Wild West.

[gwill]

Numb: did your roommate get the deposit back and not you? Did he do a legitimate move out inspection without you? If not then the landlord still has some responsibilities.

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb


Yes. Enmax specifically asked "until what date are you responsible for the property". I shut off the gas, water and power when i moved though so I don't expect it to be much.:dunno:

Shut off as in removed your name/close account for month of July on this rental with the utility companies?

[max_boost]

Why didn't you negotiate with the landlord to end the tenancy one month early?

I see why you are pissed and also see why the landlord took advantage of the situation.

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by TomcoPDR


Shut off as in removed your name/close account for month of July on this rental with the utility companies?

Shut off as in closed the main valves and flipped the master breaker.

I did get my DD back. I'm just washing my hands of the rest.

[SOAB]

Originally posted by gwill


I like to speed... Law or not it's right in my mind. Same thing with drunk driving, the occasional murder and whatever else I feel is right. Imagine if that's the way we could treat laws? We'd be living in the Wild West.

we all know you're willing to break the law with your last post about committing fraud to mess with the landlord.

[Rocket1k78]

I think what SOAB is getting at is more along the lines of street rules(i know it sounds lame but i couldnt come up with the right term) Yes theres rules to protect rentals but i think what SOAB is saying is in some situations rules can be broken. Rentals are not an easy venture and its a give and take on both parts, if rents late do you go by the book and run to the courts or do you bend the rules and give them time(example only, this fails99% of the time).

In this case it sounds like there was a lot of miscommunication from both parties but glad it got sorted out

[TomcoPDR]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb


Shut off as in closed the main valves and flipped the master breaker.

I did get my DD back. I'm just washing my hands of the rest.

Hindsight now, but I guess better if just telling the landlord you weren't renewing, without saying you've left the property.