$4000 engine rebuild from 4Kruzn Motorsports

[kdwebber]

Today I saved a fellow Rotorhead from suffering what I went through and getting ripped off by what I believe to be a scam artist/ Con artist/ and in general sad and dishonest individual. My goal here is to educate and inform anyone who is considering getting a rebuild from Conroy @ 4 Kruzn. This is what you might get.
For those of you who don't know or haven't seen these are the pictures and story of my fresh engine rebuild from Conroy @ 4 Kruzn.

I paid $3800 plus a core deposit for this rebuild. I gave Conroy a 13B-REW core on top of the $3800 I paid him for a fresh rebuild, or so I thought. Unfortunate circumstances necessitated the replacement of the coolant seals after less than 300 kms. At this point no blame had been laid for the coolant leaking into the rotor chamber. Upon opening the keg with a fellow rotorhead much more knowledgeable than I, what we found inside was truly disgusting. I received a re-built engine with an FC3S E-shaft. The tension on the timing chain (I meant oil pump chain) was out of spec. We found used side seals with gaps to the corner seal less than 0.10mm and in excess of 0.4mm as per Mazda specs. For those of you in the know, to not use new side seals and to not carefully measure them is completely disgusting. If he failed to spend the proper amount of time sizing and shaping the side seals what else had he cut corners on?

The front stationary gear was showing copper. We had specifically discussed the replacement of any bearing that was in need of replacement. Apparently Conroy didn't think this bearing needed replacement. Onto the porting. The porting looked like it had been done by an amateur, decide for yourself. The rotor housings were in poor condition and Conroy had nicked the sealing surface when he was porting them. He told me that this was "no big deal" and that I was being "too picky". If you can't port the housings without nicking the sealing surface take a few minutes and tape them up, seems simple right? Back to the coolant seals. From time to time in the casting process there can be slight imperfections and indentations in the aluminum along the path where the coolant seal sits. Proper procedure is to fill this hole when building the engine. Conroy either failed to see this imperfection or decided not to fill it. As a result the coolant seal bubbled and I started to get coolant in the rotor chamber. This was the reason I had to pull the motor and the true story of the motor began.

I suspect Conroy did not think I would pull the motor at less than 300km's and could get away with not replacing the bearing. As I'm sure many of you can attest dealing with Conroy is a slow and painful process. Before he has your money he is quick and deliberate. Afterwards however he will straight up ignore you and is a complete PITA to deal with. After calling and text messaging Conroy with no response I decided to PM him on RX7 club. The beauty of RX7 club is that you can see when someone has logged on and of course I knew when I had messaged him. He was completely ignoring my PM's. Fantastic customer service!

Months later in a last ditch effort of frustration before I opened up the engine I text Conroy and finally got a reply. Dealing with him was terrible. All he offered me was warranty work on the motor. Why on earth would I want him to touch my motor again after everything that I found. I asked him for monetary compensation but all he offered was to exchange parts. I accepted the replacement parts. I invite Conroy to come here and defend himself, I'd love to see him try and explain his work.

PICTURES
http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/kyledwebber/library/4%20Kruzn%2013B-REW%20rebuild?sort=3&page=1

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a619/kyledwebber/4%20Kruzn%2013B-REW%20rebuild/die%20skip%20and%20porting_zpsfceoj06n.jpg

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a619/kyledwebber/4%20Kruzn%2013B-REW%20rebuild/stationary%20gear%20bearing%20at%20gt500km_zpsiz4fip4p.jpg

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a619/kyledwebber/4%20Kruzn%2013B-REW%20rebuild/IMG_1151_zpsegnohrj9.jpg

[-Jay21-]

Hopefully no one else repeats the same mistake of buying a 'built' engine from Conroy. Having seen this with my own eyes, I wouldn't advise anyone to waste their hard earned cash on his third rate handy work.

[94boosted]

Sorry to hear about your poor experience with 4KRUZN Motorsports (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/393291/4000-engine-rebuild-from-4-kruzn/). Hope the guy smartens up and does the right thing.

[Tik-Tok]

So, my general rule of never using a business with the letter Z as a replacement for S in their name, still holds true.

[HiTempguy1]

As with every story, my impression is there is more than one side to this.

Conroy is a very well respected member of the racing community in Western Canada. Having personally dealt with Conroy, I have a hard time believing his personal actions were malicious or with ill-intent.

I am not defending him, so much as saying that he has a lot to lose and the actions described in this post are not the ones of someone I've seen in the racing community.

YMMV

[EM2FTL]

^I'll second that. No idea what went on between OP and Conroy, but I've done business with him for the past 3 years and have never had an issue. Anytime something broke he was able to rectify it and never left me feeling like I got a bad deal, and he has gone out of his way to help me with several issues that aren't even his problem.

[Graham_A_M]

Wow that porting was done with a grinding wheel and a die grinder (normal, thats how I ported the heads on my buddies 5.0 mustang) but in the pics it wasnt even polished (let's say using a flapper/buffing wheel) afterwards.... yikes.

[revelations]

Sounds like possible sub-contract work to me - if he has an otherwise good rep with engine builds.

[P_D]

From 780tuners


I will not reply to Kyle in any way. And won't fight with him on the Internet.

But to say,
1-Three years ago when his engine was built it had warrentee.
2-One year ago when he actually called me he was offered warrentee which he did not accept and chose to tear down engine himself. Therefor I don't know what parts he actually found or how he tested them.
3- He no longer has warrentee and chose to go down this road to somehow make himself feel better.
4- there is WAY more to this story than what Kyle chooses to post and I will not argue and fight about who and what is true and what is not. This will be the last I say on this matter. If you know me and wish for more info on me or text my cell.
Those of you who know me... You know what i have posted is true and Kyle has now gone down the road of no help from anyone. Even got himself banned from rx7 specialties.
Good luck on your rotory endeavours Kyle.

Conroy.

[G-ZUS]

:drama:

[kdwebber]

Conroy @ 4Kruzn Motorsports will try and say that I refused his warranty, which I did, and that too much time took place after he built the engine.

All I have to say is that the motor was dis assembled at a professional shop here in Calgary and that the pictures speak for themselves. Just look at the porting on the rotor housings and even the irons for that matter. Also Conroy admitted to me that he nicked the rotor housing and it was not a big deal.

[962 kid]

Quick post and I'm out of here.

Kyle wanted Conroy to take apart and figure out what went wrong. He did not refuse Conroy's warranty, Conroy simply did not offer any sort of plan or timeline for Kyle. After many many frustrating months of dodged and ignored messages, I pulled his engine apart with a couple of witnesses. It was not until the motor was disassembled and shoddy workmanship discovered that the offer of warranty work was declined.

Engine disassembly - this will always be he my word vs Conroys unfortunately. After pulling the timing cover and front stat gear, I advised kyle to go home and get a camera. He took pictures along the way of every side seal measured in each corresponding seal slot as well as any other substandard or out of spec parts. That's all I have to say on that.

This Upsets me to post because I was not expecting to find anything shady upon disassembly. Kyle picked Conroy to build his engine based on his good reputation and standing in the racing community. Unfortunately, the pictures do not lie. Even if Kyle was being dubious and misrepresented the seal gaps, or overheated the motor, or overboosted or didn't break it in... The wrong parts were used, the porting is not acceptable, the die grinder marks on the sealing surface are not acceptable. The housings are out of spec as are the irons and bearings.

No good

[A790]

Originally posted by P_D
From 780tuners


A reply like that to me suggests that he is more likely at fault as opposed to the opposite.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by A790

A reply like that to me suggests that he is more likely at fault as opposed to the opposite.

We could go back and forth all day long about what I said and what he said. Better yet we could look at the pictures of the engine itself and decide based on the cold hard facts.

[A790]

Originally posted by kdwebber


We could go back and forth all day long about what I said and what he said. Better yet we could look at the pictures of the engine itself and decide based on the cold hard facts.
If I'm honest, I have no real interest in who is at fault.

I was just pointing out that when I see someone accused of something post a non-reply like that one, more often than not they turn out to be guilty.

A reply like that inspires no confidence in me. It doesn't tell me that person is genuinely interested in their customers or their businesses reputation. It suggests that your accusations are true.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by A790

If I'm honest, I have no real interest in who is at fault.

I was just pointing out that when I see someone accused of something post a non-reply like that one, more often than not they turn out to be guilty.

A reply like that inspires no confidence in me. It doesn't tell me that person is genuinely interested in their customers or their businesses reputation. It suggests that your accusations are true.

I get what you meant earlier, I must have mis read it.

My only goal here is to prevent others from going through the headache and frustration that I did.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by A790

A reply like that to me suggests that he is more likely at fault as opposed to the opposite.

Really? A reply like that I usually find indicates a person who is at their wits end trying to placate a poor customer. At the end of the day, you need to know when to cut your losses.

Also, I don't know 962 kid from a hole in the ground; does he have a shop?

I tried finding some info on him on this forum, and ran across this hilarious (and fitting) post from a RX8 thread


Originally posted by 962 kid
Sorry, but no mechanic will take a customers word on "diagnosis." It sounds like you are confused as hell. If I were you, I would have the dealer do the comp test. If results are ok, have them change the plugs - the job is half done from comp test, just need to swap the leading plugs after. Drive the car home and have your mechanic friend change the coils (can be done from above quite easily) and then sell the car haha.

:rofl: Pot meet kettle, something something.

[rx7_turbo2]

Wow, if I was the builder of that engine I wouldn't want a public fight over it either, pretty tough to defend that type of craftsmanship. Well not tough, impossible. If you paid for a "streetport" then that porting is downright fraudulent.

I don't know Conroy, never seen the inside of one of his motors, but this sure does remind me of what I've seen in another "Specialists" motors :rofl:

There really isn't a back and forth on this one. I really don't see what "the other side of the story" could be? Unless "the other side of the story" is the OP was told "Hey I'm gong to charge you for porting but instead of doing it I'm going to just let a die grinder rattle around in there on its own while I go for lunch"

My opinion having seen my fair share of rotary internals? Fucking pathetic, and as someone who has a soft spot for the rotary engine this makes me sad, saddest of all this type of shit doesn't surprise me anymore.

[A790]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Really? A reply like that I usually find indicates a person who is at their wits end trying to placate a poor customer. At the end of the day, you need to know when to cut your losses.
I agree with your sentiment, but not with his execution. Yea, you need to cut your losses, but maybe you do that after posting your side.

A single post explaining your position is all you need. Give the people who are reading an opportunity to evaluate your position and make their own judgements.

What he posted is a complete non-reply.

My experience with defending myself/my business on social media is to tell the truth, back it up with anything I've got to do it, and let the people sort it out. He's not doing that, and his lack of interest doesn't paint him favorably either.

[mobius]

The part that bothers me is that you have decided to take a tear at Conroy on a public forum because of one bad experience. Having known Conroy since 2006, I can tell you that this is not indicative of his work. I can also tell you that he has gone out of his way many times to help people diagnose and repair their cars with no gain to himself.

Did Conroy actually say the he was the one to spec and assemble your engine? I would find it more likely that someone he had working for him 3 years ago (or however long it was) was the one who actually assembled the engine. Does it make it right? No. But it does sound like he offered to make it right and you turned him down, so now it is your problem.

[JEFFRIX]

WARRANTEE no guarantee

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by mobius
Does it make it right? No. But it does sound like he offered to make it right and you turned him down, so now it is your problem.

If it was a stealership that fucked up his engine, what would you say about him if he took it back to the same place? We would all call him an idiot if he did that.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by mobius
The part that bothers me is that you have decided to take a tear at Conroy on a public forum because of one bad experience. Having known Conroy since 2006, I can tell you that this is not indicative of his work. I can also tell you that he has gone out of his way many times to help people diagnose and repair their cars with no gain to himself.

Did Conroy actually say the he was the one to spec and assemble your engine? I would find it more likely that someone he had working for him 3 years ago (or however long it was) was the one who actually assembled the engine. Does it make it right? No. But it does sound like he offered to make it right and you turned him down, so now it is your problem.

I chose to make this public because I gave Conroy every chance to make this right and he refused. He is too stubborn to admit that he was wrong. Only monetary compensation would have been sufficient. The workmanship inside that engine was disgraceful and under no circumstances would I let him touch a motor for me again. The best he could offer me was replacement parts which I have mentioned I took as there was no other alternative.

Ultimately he is responsible for the product that leaves his shop and ends up in my car. That's what I paid good money for and did not receive. He doesn't get a pass because he might or might not have assembled that motor, that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. I see it as professional accountability and he has none.

What bothers me is that you have a passion for rotaries and not be disgusted by the pictures that I posted. Forget about the relationship you have with Conroy and just look at the pictures.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by kdwebber


Only monetary compensation would have been sufficient.

As has been said, you are an unreasonable customer. No shop would give you said compensation, so in essence, you did not give him the opportunity to fix the issue. :closed:

Basically, you goofed. Hard lesson to learn.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


As has been said, you are an unreasonable customer. No shop would give you said compensation, so in essence, you did not give him the opportunity to fix the issue. :closed:

Basically, you goofed. Hard lesson to learn.

Once in a long while, I actually agree with your posts haha.


Only monetary compensation is acceptable? That's a horseshit stance to take as a customer. At least give him one more shot to redo the work, it's only fair. Just about any shop would tell you to kick rocks if you didn't accept their offer to do the work again. And I don't know OP or the mechanic in question, just using common sense and my own personal experience.

[A790]

Originally posted by kdwebber
Only monetary compensation would have been sufficient.
You lost me here.

I agree with the other posters: give the guy a chance to fix the mistake.

I've had customers demand money from me too, and they don't get much of a response. That kind of customer is the kind of customer that won't be happy regardless of what you do... so why play into it?

[kdwebber]

First of all I did not refuse warranty right away. I gave him a chance to answer my pm's on Rx7club to which he straight up ignored me. I can even post my logs to prove this. After a long time of him ignoring me I contacted him one last time to let him know that the motor would be dis assembled and he finally answered me.

Guys why on earth would I want another motor from him given what was found in the first one? This wasn't a warranty issue where a part had failed or had suffered a quality control issue. This was a case of mis representation and in my opinion borderline fraud. Used parts were used in the place of new ones. Proper procedure was not followed. Parts that were out of spec were re-used. Very specific tolerances outlined by Mazda were disregarded. This is gross negligence. At this point I am well within my rights to refuse any warranty offer.

Also I did not request full compensation. I offered for him to keep the portion of the $3800 that was responsible for his labor. I asked for $1100 in return, not unreasonable whatsoever.

[dirtsniffer]

sue him?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by kdwebber
First of all I did not refuse warranty right away. I gave him a chance to answer my pm's on Rx7club to which he straight up ignored me. I can even post my logs to prove this. After a long time of him ignoring me I contacted him one last time to let him know that the motor would be dis assembled and he finally answered me.

Guys why on earth would I want another motor from him given what was found in the first one? This wasn't a warranty issue where a part had failed or had suffered a quality control issue. This was a case of mis representation and in my opinion borderline fraud. Used parts were used in the place of new ones. Proper procedure was not followed. Parts that were out of spec were re-used. Very specific tolerances outlined by Mazda were disregarded. This is gross negligence. At this point I am well within my rights to refuse any warranty offer.

Also I did not request full compensation. I offered for him to keep the portion of the $3800 that was responsible for his labor. I asked for $1100 in return, not unreasonable whatsoever.

This makes perfect sense to me.

[Zhao Kan]

like I said on 780 tuners:

Keep in mind you are not a mechanic, and you are not knowledgeable enough to do this work yourself. That means you have a lot of holes in your knowledge. You’re getting told XYZ from someone and taking it as gospel. That’s pretty dangerous.

My experience with a conroy rebuild process is he doesn’t replace stuff that fine to reuse and replacing would nickel and dimes your rebuild up into the stratosphere. You could also ask why he didn’t replace the rotor housings, and the injectors, every bolt, and a number of other things. The answer would probably be to save YOU money, which is why you went to conroy in the first place, right? otherwise you could have called up racingbeat and had them ship out one of their 3 rotor setups for 50g USD, or drop it off at mazda and pay 10g+ for a guy who once did an oil change on a rotary rebuild it for you.

Like chris F said, what is wrong with that stationary gear? There are tolerances for it, and it doesn’t look that worn. They wear out faster on one side then another so why it is worn funny is not the issue, only if it is out of spec or something we are not seeing is fucked with it.

I like looking stuff up occasionally and here is what I found: Tolerances for that bearing from mazda state that it is 0.0013”. The grey coating on that bearing is only 0.0005” thick. That means copper showing is perfectly fine and with how little is showing, it’s gotta be easily within tolerances still.


Now maybe the published info I found is bs, and maybe the info your guy gave you is which sounds like it has no numbers and consists only of 'i see copper = replace!!!' regardless of what is ok or not. So IMO just from looking at that picture, I can tell that at least one thing your ‘expert' told you is bullshit, so he’s not as smart as he's leading you to believe.

I'm going to say he's probably wrong about a whole lot more, and is probably not so much an expert as a backyard mechanic. I'm at best a quasi backyard mechanic (not a day of formal training) and even I knew to look up what the tolerances are and how thick that coating is to gauge how screwed that bearing was. I'm guessing conroy looked at that and said yup, its within easily within tolerances...... and that is why it's in there still.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
sue him?

I considered this option however I did not want to go through the hassle of small claims court. In the end I made the decision to exchange parts and sell them to recoup some of my loss.

This whole debacle has been a learning experience for me. My only motivation here is to post my experience supported by facts as a warning for others. I'm getting a lot of hate and abuse from his supporters which I expected however I feel the rotary community and the car community in general deserved to be informed.

I'm learning as much as I can about rotary motor and still have a long way to go. Just like any motor it is the small things that matter most and unfortunately most of that work does not get scrutinized properly by the uninformed. I certainly would have missed much of the BS that was found in my motor without help from someone more experienced. I feel this is why his reputation has not been disputed much. Also I do not believe that his personal cars or the cars of his close friends receive the same quality parts/builds as the average joe.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by kdwebber
First of all I did not refuse warranty right away. I gave him a chance to answer my pm's on Rx7club


You talk about business and "professionals"; while PM's are a form of communication in the business world, this really doesn't mean anything, its not an official form of communication. I just logged onto reddit today and had some PM's asking about race fuel and ethanol and I hadn't been on there in two weeks. I'm not saying that is an excuse, but if you are having issues, you contact the company, not post on *insert forum here*



Used parts were used in the place of new ones


Unfortunately, this is (IMO) impossible to document. Unless you have proof of the worn parts going in BEFORE running the motor, the tear down after the fact is not definitive proof of this. Also of note, most shops don't give warranty with custom built motors, the fact that Conroy does speaks volumes IMO. Nor do they do it after you've torn is down instead of taking it to them. And they certainly don't go off the "opinion" of somebody else who isn't their shop and it appears doesn't even own a shop.



Guys why on earth would I want another motor from him given what was found in the first one? *snip* At this point I am well within my rights to refuse any warranty offer.


That's the choice you get unfortunately when you spend money with someone. You are indeed within your right to refuse a warranty offer, just as he is within his right to not compensate you further.



Also I did not request full compensation. I offered for him to keep the portion of the $3800 that was responsible for his labor. I asked for $1100 in return, not unreasonable whatsoever. [/B]

Again, but why? We are getting your side of the story. Maybe it would have been better for Conroy to take this one on the chin and tough it out, but he certainly is not OBLIGATED to.

I don't even know the guy "that" well. But you coming on here and slagging him shows the kind of customer you are. I wouldn't want to deal with you either :dunno:

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by Zhao Kan
like I said on 780 tuners:

Keep in mind you are not a mechanic, and you are not knowledgeable enough to do this work yourself. That means you have a lot of holes in your knowledge. You’re getting told XYZ from someone and taking it as gospel. That’s pretty dangerous.

My experience with a conroy rebuild process is he doesn’t replace stuff that fine to reuse and replacing would nickel and dimes your rebuild up into the stratosphere. You could also ask why he didn’t replace the rotor housings, and the injectors, every bolt, and a number of other things. The answer would probably be to save YOU money, which is why you went to conroy in the first place, right? otherwise you could have called up racingbeat and had them ship out one of their 3 rotor setups for 50g USD, or drop it off at mazda and pay 10g+ for a guy who once did an oil change on a rotary rebuild it for you.

Like chris F said, what is wrong with that stationary gear? There are tolerances for it, and it doesn’t look that worn. They wear out faster on one side then another so why it is worn funny is not the issue, only if it is out of spec or something we are not seeing is fucked with it.

I like looking stuff up occasionally and here is what I found: Tolerances for that bearing from mazda state that it is 0.0013”. The grey coating on that bearing is only 0.0005” thick. That means copper showing is perfectly fine and with how little is showing, it’s gotta be easily within tolerances still.


Now maybe the published info I found is bs, and maybe the info your guy gave you is which sounds like it has no numbers and consists only of 'i see copper = replace!!!' regardless of what is ok or not. So IMO just from looking at that picture, I can tell that at least one thing your ‘expert' told you is bullshit, so he’s not as smart as he's leading you to believe.

I'm going to say he's probably wrong about a whole lot more, and is probably not so much an expert as a backyard mechanic. I'm at best a quasi backyard mechanic (not a day of formal training) and even I knew to look up what the tolerances are and how thick that coating is to gauge how screwed that bearing was. I'm guessing conroy looked at that and said yup, its within easily within tolerances...... and that is why it's in there still.

I'm always open to new information and if I am wrong I will fully admit it. Based on what you mentioned (I will look up the specs independently later) just from seeing the copper would that not mean that at a minimum 40% of that tolerance has been worn away. Without measuring it further we cannot know for sure what the true number is.

Now lets talk about the gap between the side seal and the corner seal. Since you like to look up facts and tolerances you should know the Mazda spec on this particular area. Excess of 0.4mm was found and if you want I could post every gap for you to see (I've posted two already) Given that he could not be bothered to use new seals and shape/spec them properly I'm going to go out and say that he did not measure the bearing.

The bearing is just one small piece of the puzzle and if I was wrong about the bearing I will admit it. The bearing is not the make it or break it issue with the engine but it speaks to a pattern. You guys are getting hung up on one small issues and are not looking at the engine as a whole. Not one of you has even touched upon the porting or the die grinder skip and again that is just one of the issues with this particular motor.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


You talk about business and "professionals"; while PM's are a form of communication in the business world, this really doesn't mean anything, its not an official form of communication. I just logged onto reddit today and had some PM's asking about race fuel and ethanol and I hadn't been on there in two weeks. I'm not saying that is an excuse, but if you are having issues, you contact the company, not post on *insert forum here*



Unfortunately, this is (IMO) impossible to document. Unless you have proof of the worn parts going in BEFORE running the motor, the tear down after the fact is not definitive proof of this. Also of note, most shops don't give warranty with custom built motors, the fact that Conroy does speaks volumes IMO. Nor do they do it after you've torn is down instead of taking it to them. And they certainly don't go off the "opinion" of somebody else who isn't their shop and it appears doesn't even own a shop.



That's the choice you get unfortunately when you spend money with someone. You are indeed within your right to refuse a warranty offer, just as he is within his right to not compensate you further.



Again, but why? We are getting your side of the story. Maybe it would have been better for Conroy to take this one on the chin and tough it out, but he certainly is not OBLIGATED to.

I don't even know the guy "that" well. But you coming on here and slagging him shows the kind of customer you are. I wouldn't want to deal with you either :dunno:

In addition to PM's I called and sent text messages. I stated the PM because this I can prove definitively. Also I should state that he answered the first PM and ignored the 2nd. This is how I know he was ignoring me. He also claimed he did not receive my texts or calls. The PM is how I know he was lying to me directly.

The worn parts used is not up for debate, the side seals speak to this issue specifically. Either he used worn side seals or he did not measure them once. Either scenario doesn't bode well for the workmanship this motor received. Also the rotor housing were not in acceptable condition. I didn't pay for used garbage housings he had laying around the shop.

The fact that he is not defending the motor and specifically the porting speaks volumes. He's not defending the porting because it is indefensible. Instead of using facts he is resorting to ad hominem attacks and reasonable doubt.

[Zhao Kan]

No one is getting hung up on any one issue. I'm guessing we have about 20% of the facts here, so all we can really work with is what we're given. No one has anything to gain in this. I picked that specific picture to pick apart because chris F brought up a good point. I thought about it and decided to check the tolerances on that part since it was something that was actually easy to figure out based on a picture if that coating was thicker or thinner than tolerances making a perfect measuring tool. Nothing else I can measure by just looking at a picture, so no proof on anything else being out of spec.

If it's clear to you conroy screwed you, then it's clear x100 to me that your expert isn't read up on what he's talking about. If he really told u that reusing that bearing was a big no no, then what he's saying goes against what the people who engineered the car published.



.....also, why would you replace something that is so far in the range of spec that it'll likely be technically good for another rebuild the next time it's cracked open? Like I said, the reason he didn't change that is probably the same reason you didn't go with brand new rotor housings and a bunch of other crap that was perfectly ok to reuse.

As someone who has dealt with service as a retail customer, and a business owner (as guy providing service, a guy trying to get something done for less from other businesses for my own, and a guy having customers trying to nickle and dime his repair down as low as possible against all advice), i gotta say, stop and think about why a business would not replace everything with new parts? We make money off selling parts because every single part is marked up, and it's much easier to work with shiny new things then old crap. There is less liability using new stuff then old crap. Why does someone not use new parts for everything? because the person paying for it doesn't want them to due to costs, or wait times for it to show up. I don't need to hear 4kruzn's answer as to why used parts were used, because it will come down to either you were in a rush for your engine, or you were worried about price. i'm happy when they reuse stuff that's in spec for me too, rather then spending 5 figures on a engine rebuild for a car worth 4 figures.

I also gotta say, from having dealt with tens of thousands of customers, I know what someone says after the fact with they were willing to pay for is often completely different then what they say before the fact on what they are willing to pay for.

I know with experience it's very rare for someone to pull the 'i would have paid to replace that' card, and actually have had them willing to replace it prior to everything going south because of that part. I suspect you're guilty of this because of the words you used, which bring up flashbacks to a ton of encounters with people over the years.

[ekguy]

No matter the situation there is no defending work of such low quality. Those ports are horrendous to look at...

I am a huge fan of rotary engines and that hurt me to see.

[-Jay21-]

The guy that disassembled the motor is an experienced technician who works for a high end European shop, not a backyard mechanic. He also has more experience than most with rotary engines.

Why is asking for a partial refund not acceptable? The work is terrible, the proof is in the pudding. Just look at the photos for crying out loud. $3800 and a core for a 'built engine' that went about 300kms? Not acceptable. Not to mention huge flaws already pointed out, parts like an fc3s eccentric shaft which wasn't what was promised is a fine example.

It's hilarious that some people in this thread are defending Conroy. I bet not a single one of you would dare buy a motor from him, yet you still insist on defending him.

[xnvy]

Originally posted by A790
I was just pointing out that when I see someone accused of something post a non-reply like that one, more often than not they turn out to be guilty.

A reply like that inspires no confidence in me. It doesn't tell me that person is genuinely interested in their customers or their businesses reputation. It suggests that your accusations are true. I agree. With issues like this, it's more comforting as a customer to see a response like Ravi's in the Minute Muffler thread, one that gives the shop's perspective as well rather than a statement of silence on the matter.

[spikerS]

I don't know much about rotary engines, and even less about the people involved in this thread, but even to my eye that workmanship looks like it was done by a bunch of toddlers.

as to what could be done for remediation? I can understand the reluctance to let him work on the engine again, I mean, if care wasn't given to do it right the first time...and that's what it looks like, that the proper time wasn't invested. why would I take the chance that the second time he would do it right, especially when he is probably pissed at me?

Just my $0.02 as a 2nd year mechanic's apprentice in my youth.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by -Jay21-
The guy that disassembled the motor is an experienced technician who works for a high end European shop, not a backyard mechanic. He also has more experience than most with rotary engines.

Why is asking for a partial refund not acceptable? The work is terrible, the proof is in the pudding. Just look at the photos for crying out loud. $3800 and a core for a 'built engine' that went about 300kms? Not acceptable. Not to mention huge flaws already pointed out, parts like an fc3s eccentric shaft which wasn't what was promised is a fine example.

It's hilarious that some people in this thread are defending Conroy. I bet not a single one of you would dare buy a motor from him, yet you still insist on defending him.

Completely agree. You don't even need to have 962kid's level of knowledge to see that was some substandard work.

I mean if there was one thing that went wrong, sure, fix it up and give it back. But seeing that many screwups, there's no way I'd let them touch my engine again and I'd want my money back, period.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
Completely agree. You don't even need to have 962kid's level of knowledge to see that was some substandard work.


This.

Faulty part, assembly mistake, genuine error? You bet, builder gets a second chance.

This porting is fucking disgraceful. You can write 10 pages of excuses and possible explanations it's all irrelevant, none of it matters. This engine was assembled and whoever did it stared this abortion of a port job in the face while they did it. Conroy, an employee of Conroy who the fuck cares? This isn't a warranty issue, this is fraud. Flat out fraud, OP paid for porting and got this abomination.

Zhao Kan - "20% of the story" who gives a shit if we have 1% of it? Go ahead defend the porting, I'd love to hear it. :rofl:

[mobius]

Originally posted by kdwebber


I chose to make this public because I gave Conroy every chance to make this right and he refused. He is too stubborn to admit that he was wrong. Only monetary compensation would have been sufficient. The workmanship inside that engine was disgraceful and under no circumstances would I let him touch a motor for me again. The best he could offer me was replacement parts which I have mentioned I took as there was no other alternative.


So you go to the store and buy an iPod, with factory warrantee only. You open it up and find that only half the screen works. You call up Apple and say, "Fuck this shit, give me my money back." Do they say, "Here you are sir, sorry for our screw-up."? No, they ask you to return the product to them so they can verify the issue and then they compensate you (or repair the issue, they don't give you a choice). Terrible analogy, but still the same principle.



Ultimately he is responsible for the product that leaves his shop and ends up in my car. That's what I paid good money for and did not receive. He doesn't get a pass because he might or might not have assembled that motor, that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. I see it as professional accountability and he has none.


You didn't answer my question. Was it Conroy himself who did the work on your engine? You are right, overall he is responsible. I never said he gets a pass, but there is nothing professional about refusing to let him repair the mistake (which he may not have personally made).




What bothers me is that you have a passion for rotaries and not be disgusted by the pictures that I posted. Forget about the relationship you have with Conroy and just look at the pictures.

Is the porting ugly, sure. Probably works just as well as if he (or his employee) would have spent hours polishing it.

All I know is that it is not uncommon to re-use bearings with copper showing, if they are indeed still within spec. I also have heard that it is better to use a used factory fit bearing, than one that has been punched out and a new one installed (higher risk of a spun bearing).

As for everything else, my opinion means less than nothing because I don't have any experience in that area.

All in all (right or wrong), had the coolant seal not failed (which may or may not have even been anyone's fault), I would wager to bet that your engine would have run healthy and strong for as long as your could reasonably expect it to. Mazda spec (who has a shitty OEM track record anyway) or not.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by mobius
Is the porting ugly, sure. Probably works just as well as if he (or his employee) would have spent hours polishing it.


:banghead:

As for your completely absurd iPod analogy. The only way that makes any sense is if my iPod stopped working and when it was disassembled I found it was built out of peanut butter and raisins. What was found in this motor was shameful, end of story, full stop. There is no defending this type of craftsmanship.

The fact you think this engine would have "run healthy and strong for as long as you can reasonably expect" makes me sad, even someone with zero experience in rotary engines would know that's complete horseshit.

Your comments really upset me, part of the reason the rotary engine has such a bad rap is that enthusiasts have set the bar so low. We've become so accustomed to poor reliability and embarrassing craftsmanship that we don't demand more.

Whenever these rotary threads come up, people inevitably come in to argue black is white and defend this nonsense. Why not stand up and demand better?

[HiTempguy1]

So I'm confused, is this about the quality of the port job, or the problems with the motor?

As someone else said, you went with the lowest bidder. Get over the port job, its not part of the conversation unless the port job itself is causing issues. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but it is completely irrelevant to this conversation.

It keeps coming back to I completely understand why any business wouldn't want to deal with you; there is no placating you. People who read through these threads will see this, and then they will see the fact (as someone else alluded to) he has a 99.999999999% customer rating and blow you off as "that guy", impossible to please even while bending over backwards.

I also like another tech from another shop getting in on the slag-fest, classy (probably why no names or credentials are being posted).

[sr20s14zenki]

The sad thing these days, is that there is a lack of giveafuck from ANY tuner shop in calgary and area for the most part. I've heard good about Conroy, and its too bad that something like this happened. Ive seen/repaired absolute SHIT work from other "shops" around town, and its absolutely DISGRACEFUL. Seems to be the only way they want your business, is if you have 50-100k to drop with them, and then you MAY get something worth talking about. There no middle road anymore, its either shit, or ungodly costly.

I will be rebuilding my OWN rotary this year. Should be a fun adventure. Maybe i can get to a point where i can do it reasonably for other folks. We shall see. Im glad to be back in a rotary now, and excited to see what the future brings.


And skipping the die grinder across the rotor housing is hardly "not a big deal" Man...all kinds of sealing issues wit that.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Get over the port job, its not part of the conversation unless the port job itself is causing issues. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but it is completely irrelevant to this conversation.


Ya get over the fact you didn't get what you paid for, geez it's so irrelevant :nut:

Now what was I saying about setting that bar low! :rofl:

[HiTempguy1]

I never said that. I said they are two seperate issues. Neither of which can be rectified due to OP's actions :dunno:

[tehwegz]

Wow, I'm :eek:

I met Conroy in person once, nice guy and quite an enthusiast. He was interested in my Miata, as he wanted to swap a rotary in one. I considered two cars that he was selling, a FC RX7 and later a JDM Civic SiR. I also know one guy who had his FC's rotary done by him - haven't heard of any issues he's had other than the car around the motor.

From seeing the cars he deals with via Facebook, and the enthusiasm shown for RX7/8 and rotaries almost exclusively - I just don't see how it could have been his workmanship. :dunno:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I never said that. I said they are two seperate issues. Neither of which can be rectified due to OP's actions :dunno:

Separate issues? The build of this motor was garbage, that's a singular issue, looking at it any other way serves only to distract from the obvious. Again, faulty parts, genuine mistake in assembly? Sure builder gets a shot and the benefit of the doubt. That's not what this is. The porting is relevant because you don't need to look any further, it alone is reason enough to feel Like you've been cheated.

Someone put that motor together with that porting staring them right in the face, with the marks of where the die grinder walked up the surface of the rotor housing. Thats not a mistake, that's not an oversight. Someone saw it, didn't give a shit and was gambling on the fact the owner would never find out. In my opinion that's fraud.

[ekguy]

This is why I told my friend we would be learning how to rebuild rotaries...i'll be buying my second one within a year here hopefully.

I'd rather learn slow and build em myself then end up with work even remotely this bad...

[mobius]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

As for your completely absurd iPod analogy. The only way that makes any sense is if my iPod stopped working and when it was disassembled I found it was built out of peanut butter and raisins.


Or rather you disassembled it and found that they didn't clean up the solder joints. But it failed because of a manufacturing flaw in one of the chips (completely unrelated).

And since 'you' disassembled it, they would tell you to fuck off anyway.



The fact you think this engine would have "run healthy and strong for as long as you can reasonably expect" makes me sad, even someone with zero experience in rotary engines would know that's complete horseshit.


I'm sorry, can you prove that it wouldn't have? The engine 'failure' had nothing to do with the porting.

Is the porting sloppy? Sure. Is it acceptable? Likely not. If I were building the engine I would not have been satisfied with that porting job.

However, would it have likely worked? Yes. Unless you're tuning it to the bleeding edge, I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference in the porting.

Nearly everyone I know who has a rotary has had an engine assembled by 4Kruzn. I personally have one that has been running very well for 6+ years. I have no idea what the porting looks like or what the seal clearances are, but it has taken all the abuse that I've given it (including some pretty harsh detonations due to a tuning issue). I would not hesitate to have Conroy do my next rebuild.



Your comments really upset me, part of the reason the rotary engine has such a bad rap is that enthusiasts have set the bar so low. We've become so accustomed to poor reliability and embarrassing craftsmanship that we don't demand more.


Embarrassing craftsmanship is Mazda's motto when it comes to rotary engines

Is it really that we set the bar low? Or is it that we're left to piecing together a 'new' engine out of a bunch of old parts? Old parts that only get older and more worn. That is unless you have boat loads of money laying around, and then you can have new parts made at your whim.

In any case, you're still dancing around the issue with this thread. I still haven't seen anywhere where it says Conroy himself assembled/ported the motor. Even if he did, he has been racing/building rotaries since before I was even a gleam in my Father's eye, so I would have a hard time saying that he doesn't know what he is doing.

Yes, I realize that overall he is responsible for what comes out of his garage. It doesn't mean, however, that Conroy is deliberately defrauding anyone.

It also doesn't mean that every build to come out of his garage is shit, or that every build that will come out is shit.

If I have a co-worker who fucks up some electrical in someone's house because they are lazy/sloppy etc., does that mean that all the electrical that I have done/will do is also shit? Or that my boss has done/will do? I think not, we go in and repair it on our dime and ream out/fire the retard who screwed it up in the first place.

[rx7_turbo2]

You like sitting on the fence hey, don't want to burn the old bridge with Conroy maybe?

"Is the porting bad? Well I don't know, maybe sorta, kinda, not really, it doesn't matter anyhow, maybe it was an employee, my motor is strong........" :rofl:

Here's the sticky wicket. Everyone thinks the engine in their car is great as long as it runs. Who's going to tear apart what they think is a strong running rotary? Most won't crack it open till it blows, at which time any evidence of a shitty build will be hidden by the carnage. It isn't until someone says screw it I'll eat the cost of this and tear apart a running motor just "to see" that you find out what's really going on. This isn't the first of these scenarios I've seen.

I love your jab at Mazda as well. Like its Mazdas fault whoever ported this engine had a seizure half way through, then if that wasn't bad enough ACTUALLY ASSEMBLED IT LIKE THAT :rofl:

If your defence for this abomination is "Well maybe he didn't do it" you must surely see you're grasping at straws.

[MrSector9]

porting not polished does not bother me depending on what was talked about during the build, some people want things cheap and the finish work may have to suffer because of it.

The mark across the housing.... whoever decided to put that engine together AFTER they did that should be hung out to dry, Everyone makes mistakes in building engines at some point, do not try to hide it on a paying customer, fix it right or do not do it at all.

Seeing that alone will make me never mention this engine builders company to anyone.

[mobius]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
You like sitting on the fence hey, don't want to burn the old bridge with Conroy maybe?



Its called giving the benefit of the doubt for someone who has a long standing history in the rotary community. Why wouldn't I be one the fence? You've clearly jumped right on the hate wagon, so you must have much more information that I do, please enlighten me.

This is the problem with the online rotary community, and why I don't bother with Rx7Club anymore. It's like a bunch of hungry bitches tearing after any scrap of rotten meat they can find.



"Is the porting bad? Well I don't know, maybe sorta, kinda, not really, it doesn't matter anyhow, maybe it was an employee, my motor is strong........" :rofl:



Nice try, but I clearly said the porting was bad. And then I explained how there could be more to this story.



Here's the sticky wicket. Everyone thinks the engine in their car is great as long as it runs. Who's going to tear apart what they think is a strong running rotary? Most won't crack it open till it blows, at which time any evidence of a shitty build will be hidden by the carnage. It isn't until someone says screw it I'll eat the cost of this and tear apart a running motor just "to see" that you find out what's really going on. This isn't the first of these scenarios I've seen.


A messy or crappy port job does necessarily equal a weak motor. Why would I tear apart my (what I know, not think) strong motor to look for a 'problem' that I have no symptoms of?



I love your jab at Mazda as well. Like its Mazdas fault whoever ported this engine had a seizure half way through, then if that wasn't bad enough ACTUALLY ASSEMBLED IT LIKE THAT :rofl:


Reading comprehension fail, where did I mention porting and Mazda? What I was getting at was that Mazda themselves is full of catastrophic fail stories with their factory and reman engines, so it's not like they are setting the bar high.



If your defence for this abomination is "Well maybe he didn't do it" you must surely see you're grasping at straws.

I'm grasping at straws? Your attack is directed to one person based on one example of work (out of how many thousands of happy customers) that he may not have even done .

I know I don't know the whole story, but you must, so please enlighten me and I will hitch my horse right next to yours on the bandwagon.

[01RedDX]

.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by mobius
Why would I tear apart my (what I know, not think) strong motor to look for a 'problem' that I have no symptoms of?

Prove it's strength, how do you know you have no symptoms ;)

Most people with engines that "run" will claim they're "strong". I've been involved in the tear down of multiple engines where the owners would claim everything was "strong" and "fine" then the tear down reveals substandard work. So the motor is ported and rebuilt properly and the owners inevitable response is "Oh Okay, I see, so that's what a rotary should feel like" It's like an epiphany. Here's a tip JUST BECAUSE A ROTARY RUNS DOESNT MAKE IT STRONG.

You want to give this abomination of an engine the benefit of the doubt (not surprising given you might have one in your car) I get it, you paid money and really, really want to believe this is just a one off. There are things I can give the benefit of the doubt on. What I've seen in these photos does not meet that criteria.

I'll agree with others that have posted. What was seen in these pictures is not alright, there is no justification that makes them right. In the past I've actually sent people to Conroy offering them an alternative to the even worse things I've seen from RX-7 Specialties. I'm kind of upset about that now.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
What of his claim that you are banned from RX-7 Specialties and what do you have to say about that?

You're not referring to me right?

If it was me I'd wear that ban like a badge of honor!!!

[01RedDX]

.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
No, I know, it's from the quoted post from 780 on page 1:


I would disagree with the quote. I think the fact Kyle has "seen the light" means he's actually put himself in a position to receive more help, and substantially better help. It's funny how that works.

[tomt64]

Originally posted by mobius

All in all (right or wrong), had the coolant seal not failed (which may or may not have even been anyone's fault), I would wager to bet that your engine would have run healthy and strong for as long as your could reasonably expect it to. Mazda spec (who has a shitty OEM track record anyway) or not.

So you are saying its a-ok to receive substandard work.
As long as it runs and he doesn't know the irons, bearings and housings are all not in spec... it doesn't matter! :thumbsup:

I don't recall brand new 13b's coming off the Mazda assembly line leaking coolant into the rotor housing. I just hope that this is a lesson learned so he is much more precise in the future, I don't buy that ex-employee worked on it bullshit.

You guys can analyse this any way you want; ipod, home electrical work... whatever. Apples to oranges. Besides its not like they took apart a working, problem free engine just to be picky... it was leaking coolant ffs. Shit work revealed more shit work, caught red handed. Customer service is shit, this is the result. End of story.

"My engine works great!" Well thats just fantastic for you, this is not your amazing engine, this is a shit engine with shit quality control. QC is a thing of the past apparently. Conroy is responsible for what leaves his shop, bottom line. The pictures make me cringe. At this point he will say anything to control the damage to his 'reputation'.

Everyone jumping on Kyle saying he is the .0001% customers that always have a problem; if you had this shit build, you would take it up the arse and not deal with the problem at hand? This is why some people can cut corners and are still in business.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by tomt64
As long as it runs and he doesn't know the irons, bearings and housings are all not in spec... it doesn't matter! :thumbsup:


The sad, sad state of the rotary engine and it's enthusiasts in North America, so eager to defend poor craftsmanship while failing to demand better and worst of all condemning those who are demanding a higher standard.

I've been around for a long time now and the "I KNOW mine runs strong" argument is one of my favorites. Do you, do you really ;) :rofl:

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


The sad, sad state of the rotary engine and it's enthusiasts in North America, so eager to defend poor craftsmanship while failing to demand better and worst of all condemning those who are demanding a higher standard.

I've been around for a long time now and the "I KNOW mine runs strong" argument is one of my favorites. Do you, do you really ;) :rofl:

That is one of my favorites as well. Conroys fanboys ignore the facts about what it takes to put together a solid engine. Used side seals not even measured and loosing compression on each side.

The truely sad thing is that the condition of my core could have been better than what he gave me in return. Basically I got an fc e shaft, some shitty housings, used side seals, old bearings, half ass monkey porting and some new paint on the irons lol. The only new parts were the soft seal kit, and here's the best part, I haven't even mentioned yet, the RA super seals he promised were no where to be found. And he expects me to dish out $3800 plus a core for this?

[HiTempguy1]

I don't think anyone is saying that the work was particularly acceptable :dunno: The OP's "demands" however are not, and that's the sticking point in ALL of this.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if OP accepted the offer of warranty work.

[-Jay21-]

Warranty work wouldn't have been much better, stop fooling yourself. OP has done the right thing. He's being criticized by a few people but he's saved other people from making the same mistake of buying shitty substandard engines.

[tomt64]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

We wouldn't be having this conversation if OP accepted the offer of warranty work.

Why the fuck would you want warranty work when he paid for this shit the first time round?

A "warranty" second build would be even worse considering he receives no money on his end. :rofl:

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
What of his claim that you are banned from RX-7 Specialties and what do you have to say about that?

We no longer do business with each other. I guess you could say I have a low tolerance to being lied to and ripped off.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by tomt64


Why the fuck would you want warranty work when he paid for this shit the first time round?


Well its either you get warranty work or you get nothing, so, really the ball is (was) in OP's court :dunno:

As has also been said, one bad review out of hundreds will probably not sway much. So OP is out money, out warranty work, and basically has nothing to show for his "efforts", and kind of looks like the kind of customer business owners should avoid as he is more hassle than he is worth.

The point of warranty is to make things right; if you don't give the business the chance to do so, then what do you expect? It'd be like getting a car that requires warranty work from a manufacturer, but you tell them to pound sand even though "it should have been done right the first time". OP had a lot more to lose than the business in question did. :dunno:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
We wouldn't be having this conversation if OP accepted the offer of warranty work.
So the coolant seal is repaired under warranty and the rest of the substandard and incorrect parts are re-assembled?

Or do you believe the warranty should include the replacement of the coolant seal and the replacement of the substandard parts as well as the horrendous porting?

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Well its either you get warranty work or you get nothing, so, really the ball is (was) in OP's court :dunno:


Agreed. Ultimately given what was seen upon disassembly the OP determined the builder was unlikely to be able to warranty the engine to the standard he desired, so he ate his shirt and warned others the same might happen to them, "heres what I found"

I have no issue with that.

[-Jay21-]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Well its either you get warranty work or you get nothing, so, really the ball is (was) in OP's court :dunno:

As has also been said, one bad review out of hundreds will probably not sway much. So OP is out money, out warranty work, and basically has nothing to show for his "efforts", and kind of looks like the kind of customer business owners should avoid as he is more hassle than he is worth.

The point of warranty is to make things right; if you don't give the business the chance to do so, then what do you expect? It'd be like getting a car that requires warranty work from a manufacturer, but you tell them to pound sand even though "it should have been done right the first time". OP had a lot more to lose than the business in question did. :dunno:

Warranty work done by a manufacturer would be done to a good standard, this probably wouldn't be. If Conroy received good money for the first motor and put that out, just imagine how much effort would go into the warranty work with no money received.

Once again, OP has lost out but in doing so has helped out others from spending good coin on crap. For about the same money you can get a crate motor from Mazda.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Well its either you get warranty work or you get nothing, so, really the ball is (was) in OP's court :dunno:

As has also been said, one bad review out of hundreds will probably not sway much. So OP is out money, out warranty work, and basically has nothing to show for his "efforts", and kind of looks like the kind of customer business owners should avoid as he is more hassle than he is worth.

The point of warranty is to make things right; if you don't give the business the chance to do so, then what do you expect? It'd be like getting a car that requires warranty work from a manufacturer, but you tell them to pound sand even though "it should have been done right the first time". OP had a lot more to lose than the business in question did. :dunno:

You don't seem to get it. Conroy didn't deserve the chance to make that grinder skip on the housing right the second time. The second time already happened, as in the second time he laid his eyes upon the nick. He choose to put the motor together anyways knowing the had nicked the housing. What don't you understand about this concept?

[A790]

Originally posted by kdwebber
What don't you understand about this concept?
When you talk to people like they're dumb they often don't feel inclined to want to help you.

Food for thought.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by A790

When you talk to people like they're dumb they often don't feel inclined to want to help you.

Food for thought.

It's frustrating because he keeps trying to make this about warranty which is not what its about at all. This is about gross negligence and border line fraud. Any discussion about warranty is simply mis direction from his part as well as Conroys. Ad hominem attacks and warranty claims diverts the discussion away from the real problem. Nothing is more frustrating than when someone refuses to acknowledge new information and adjust their viewpoint accordingly.

[R154]

1) OP pays a "reputable" builder to put together an engine for him with new parts in good faith.

2) OP discovers that his engine was hacked together using old parts and verified by one of the most reputable people on this forum (962 kid).

3) Beyond white knights shitty work. Questions his anger towards the original builder

4) Beyond berates OP for not accepting "warranty" work from the original engine builder as if he should be given a second chance to further ruin his engine.

Par for the course I suppose.

Good luck next time around man. Maxt is a legend. I'd seek out his help.

I find it appalling that anyone can look at the evidence and find a way to insinuate and contort the story to make it seem like OP was in the wrong. It would be one thing if OP was trying to paint the engine builder unfavorably for marginal work; but, he paid him for a service and work that was not done. To add insult to injury, it wasn't rebuilt with parts that were promised, its verified that they were not present.

That by any other word is FRAUD.

[Mista Bob]

Seems like some people here are trying too hard to replicate some past topics where someone will post an issue with a business but is actually in the wrong and topic backfires n so on and everyone laughs. So they are just jumping on the "feel goods" band wagon of defending the business without actually thinking.
That would be cool n all, except OP has gone above and beyond to not only prove that he is in fact in the right here.... but also that zero care was put into this engine in nearly every regard.

And you would have to be smoking something to honestly think it would be a good idea to get the guy to fix it for free. From what the business owner has shown it is pretty clear he didn't give a fuck about the engine before he started work and sure as hell doesn't after his work came to light. With that kind of attitude, if you ask me it's pretty safe to say this is standard operating procedure.

This engine should have never been closed up and sent out and this would have been 100% clear to anyone working on the engine. If you disagree, clearly you are too deep into the kool aid to see reality.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I have no knowledge of rotary engines or the people involved so I've just read this from the outsider point of view that OP is being honest. As such, I cannot understand the massive amount of dick-sucking getting tossed around for the builder. It seems cut and dry.

PP answered the "warranty" issue on page 2 and unless i'm reading it wrong he opted to refuse additional careless work and wanted to be reimbursed only for the parts. Parts it seems he paid for without receiving. He was happy letting the builder still cover all his labour, which is exceedingly agreeable imo.

What on earth about any of this makes the OP a bad customer? :nut:

[SKR]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
As such, I cannot understand the massive amount of dick-sucking getting tossed around for the builder.

I know nothing about rotary builders either, but I saw similar stuff when I was trying to buy parts for my ATV. It seems like there's two levels of service: one for the guy's friends, where the work is actually good, and one for the regular people, where the work suffers. To keep yourself on the good list, you have to keep defending your builder no matter what. That's what this sounds like.

[A790]

This seems to be more of a situation where someone who is already reputable does some spotty work and relies in their reputation to see them through the ensuing drama.

Unfortunately, because we aren't hearing from the shop in question, it's always going to be a one-sided conversation :(

[xnvy]

Most everyone that has commented in this thread has posted the view that it was substandard work done on the engine but the last couple pages have been a two guys advocating for the builder. At this point I don't think Conroy could do anything else except help himself by posting his side of the story in the thread.

[sr20s14zenki]

http://shanegreenup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/South-Park-sexual-healing.gif

Even if 4kruzn had 1000 good engines, and this was his first bad one, from what we can see, he has dealt with it poorly. The port work looks like shit, but some of it isn't completely awful on the irons.That rotor housing should have been tossed, or replaced with a used one of similar wear. If Conroy was so confident that its "not a big deal" he should have had no issues using it on one of his personal builds and giving kyle a different one. If hes like any rotary shop, im sure he hoards the fuckers like a cat lady hoards cats. Had i been in kyles position i would have asked the same thing. Reimburse me for the parts, and we will call it a wash. I would never let somebody inside my engine thats already pissed off at me.

Karma is a real bitch, and that's why i like to keep my quality and customer service to par. Do it right the first time, and if you know damn well something isnt right, dont use it. It will ALWAYS come back to bite you in the ass. The fact that Conroy wont post, pretty much says it all. I have had some bad customers, and it has spilled onto here, and in the end, i came out clean, because i was clean to start with, and told my story honestly. Everybody has a bad customer here and there, but something tells me its not the case this time.

In the end, im not judging Conroy, or Kyle, just calling it like i see it.

The quality of pretty much every shop in calgary and area is atrocious. I wont name any names, but ive seen some shit, and ive fixed shit from other shops. Its despicable what people get away with these days. I wish i could get my own shop happening and show you what real customer service is like, but sadly, its not what i want to do at this point in my life. Maybe later, who knows. I do, plan on getting good with rotaries, like i am with sr20det, 2jz, and rb. thats for sure!



:devil:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by SKR
To keep yourself on the good list, you have to keep defending your builder no matter what. That's what this sounds like.

This. This. This x a million.

When I left RX7Club over the whole "Adam @ RX-7 Specialties is a god, anyone who disagrees shall burn in hell" saga, that's what I heard from countless people. When I got a chance to talk to people in person there was a whole lot of "I know, I know, I had to post in his defence, I mean my car's there once a month and I have to buy parts from him". Back then I had personally been told by the parts manager at Kramer that Mazda Canada had asked him not sell RX-7 parts to customers, that he should direct them to Adam instead. Pretty scary when someone has you by the balls like that. In the end Bill at Sunridge was the only one who'd sell to me.

This scenario seems so cut and dry to me. If you trust the accuracy of the photos (which I do), and you trust the creditability of 962kid (which I do) then this is anything but a warranty issue. Seems so clear, parts failure, genuine assembly mistake? Warranty. This really appears to be a clear and obvious attempt at deception. OP paid for parts and a service and didn't get what he paid for, that's not a warranty issue, that's a refund issue.

Mobius likes his analogies so.........it's like buying an IPod off Amazon, when it arrives you open the package only to find a used sponge. You call Amazon, and their response is "No we won't refund your money because you didn't get what you paid for, but we're willing to warranty the sponge"

[kdwebber]

On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 3:53 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Quantums are sold. I only have the hKs ones left. HKS HyperMax pro. They are 14/14 spring rate. Should be quite good for drift/track. Abit stiff for street but not too bad.
Engine build is basically all new soft seals and springs, new bearings if needed, I use atkins solid corner seals and Rotary Aviation super seals. I also use the aviation rebuild kits for increased durability. Your rebuild will also include very good condition used rotor housings and rotors. And full street porting equal to my drIft car.

60mm turbo should be quit good. Glad to hear.



http://www.rotaryaviation.com/uploads/3/0/4/6/30468884/s226017648453175746_p3_i2_w2048.jpeg

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a619/kyledwebber/4%20Kruzn%2013B-REW%20rebuild/conroy%20apex%20seal%20unknown_zpsvohuysiz.jpg

[xnvy]

Try using a [bimg] tag instead of the [img] ones for those pictures, they don't fit on my screen.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by xnvy
Try using a [bimg] tag instead of the [img] ones for those pictures, they don't fit on my screen.

no problem

[know1edge]

.

[Cos]

.

[Alak]

12 years ago I had purchased an engine from Conroy. Long story short, I did not get what I had paid for. I confronted him about it then, and he defended his actions. I simply let it go because it wasn't a big deal to me at the time. Some people are just how they are, and judging by the photos, his craftsmanship hasn't improved.



I've built my own engines over the last 12 years because of that.

[Disoblige]

And let the stories begin.

This order of events sounds strangely similar to that of the Cosby allegations, except for engine work.

[G-ZUS]

Watch everyone start taking their engines apart and notice the same thing :burnout:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by G-ZUS
Watch everyone start taking their engines apart and notice the same thing :burnout:

I've known a handful of people with similar stories (not about Conroy, about that other shop ;) ) People seem incredibly reluctant to push the issue. Most have confronted the builder giving them the benefit of the doubt only to find the builder deflects the blame back on something else, offering next to no viable options to remedy the situation. Of the people I can recall all took the loss on the chin, some shelled out for Mazda re-mans the rest sold their cars with blown motors and washed their hands of the whole thing. These people walk away and its the rotary motor that gets blamed, when that wasn't really the issue.

It's not until a couple people decided to pull apart their low km running motors to "make sure I got what I paid for". That it became evident what was happening. Even with the parts of a disassembled engine sitting in front of them and an invoice that didn't match those parts the owner chose not to pursue the issue. We bought all new parts and built it properly, virtually none of the parts could be reused and most of them should have been new in the initial build.

[Alak]

When it comes to RX-7's, you definitely don't get what you pay for.

[Rocket1k78]

Originally posted by mobius


So you go to the store and buy an iPod, with factory warrantee only. You open it up and find that only half the screen works. You call up Apple and say, &quot;Fuck this shit, give me my money back.&quot; Do they say, &quot;Here you are sir, sorry for our screw-up.&quot;? No, they ask you to return the product to them so they can verify the issue and then they compensate you (or repair the issue, they don't give you a choice). Terrible analogy, but still the same principle.



Terrible analogy?!


Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Mobius likes his analogies so.........it's like buying an IPod off Amazon, when it arrives you open the package only to find a used sponge. You call Amazon, and their response is &quot;No we won't refund your money because you didn't get what you paid for, but we're willing to warranty the sponge&quot;

This is more like it unfortunately.

I dont see how anyone can say op is at fault.

[Zhao Kan]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
http://shanegreenup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/South-Park-sexual-healing.gif

Even if 4kruzn had 1000 good engines, and this was his first bad one, from what we can see, he has dealt with it poorly. The port work looks like shit, but some of it isn't completely awful on the irons.That rotor housing should have been tossed, or replaced with a used one of similar wear. If Conroy was so confident that its &quot;not a big deal&quot; he should have had no issues using it on one of his personal builds and giving kyle a different one. If hes like any rotary shop, im sure he hoards the fuckers like a cat lady hoards cats. Had i been in kyles position i would have asked the same thing. Reimburse me for the parts, and we will call it a wash. I would never let somebody inside my engine thats already pissed off at me.

Karma is a real bitch, and that's why i like to keep my quality and customer service to par. Do it right the first time, and if you know damn well something isnt right, dont use it. It will ALWAYS come back to bite you in the ass. The fact that Conroy wont post, pretty much says it all. I have had some bad customers, and it has spilled onto here, and in the end, i came out clean, because i was clean to start with, and told my story honestly. Everybody has a bad customer here and there, but something tells me its not the case this time.

In the end, im not judging Conroy, or Kyle, just calling it like i see it.

The quality of pretty much every shop in calgary and area is atrocious. I wont name any names, but ive seen some shit, and ive fixed shit from other shops. Its despicable what people get away with these days. I wish i could get my own shop happening and show you what real customer service is like, but sadly, its not what i want to do at this point in my life. Maybe later, who knows. I do, plan on getting good with rotaries, like i am with sr20det, 2jz, and rb. thats for sure!



:devil:

Your post is a bit all over the place.

If you actually owned a shop you know it's absolutely impossible to get it right every single time. Look at car manufacturers; they have infinite money spent on R&D, have been doing it for centuries, have all the best equipment to build stuff, and they still fuck stuff up. Right now here in Edmonton there is a new viper with about 5km on the odometer, that has already had it's engine swapped out. Do you know why? Because the first one grenaded on arrival.

Having owned and worked for automotive businesses before (and anyone who has who sees a high volume of customs will agree) it is absolutely impossible to be perfect, Not all customers have reasonable expectations, and not all customers are sane rational people. It's how you handle the fuckups that maintain your business' reputation, because everyone knows there will be fuckups... but sometimes you just gotta cut your losses and tell a customer to piss off because there is absolutely nothing you can do to make them happy.

I'm guessing since this is the first problem i've ever heard at 4kruzn, this is one of those times.

The OP has complained about conroy using rotor housings and rotors he should not of used, a bearing that was worn through to copper, a nick in a seal, shitty porting, conroy not being reasonable, and god knows what else.

here are the facts:
- that bearing is fine, we can tell from how much copper is showing that it is perfectly within tolerances. OP and his expert are wrong on this.
- there is no evidence there is anything wrong with the pictures of the rotors or rotor housings. there is no gouges, peeling, abnormal wear, no points it's worn through, and no chunks taken out of it. there are worse rotor housings on clubrx7 that people are asking if they're ok to reuse and the answer is yup yup yup. OP and his expert are wrong on this. That rotor housing surface looks great in pictures.
- the ports. sure, i've seen conroy do better, but again, there are ports on clubrx7 people are posting all over the place that look far worse, and no one is jumping up and down saying how much of an abomination they are. Does anyone actually know what they're looking at when they see those ports, or are people just seeing ultra close ups and going "omg that's not ported and polished like gran turismo says they need to be!?" OP and his expert have somewhat of a leg to stand on here, but are they functional? Yes. Are they going to be responsible for grenading an engine? no. Did OP pay a crazy amount of money to get his engine rebuilt? no, he got a dirt cheap bargain basement rate.
- The mythical FC3S eccentric shaft. First off, these are interchangeable and people commonly swap them in-between rotary engines, including the Renesis engine from my understanding. 2nd off, how do you even know it's from a FC since visually I can't tell a difference? There is debate on what shaft is better also. Some claim the rx8s because they are harder, but others say the balancing on the original 13b's make them better. the 13b-rew's seem to be mid point, where they sit between 13b and renesis for balance and hardness.
- OP's expert. It's clear OP's expert is not someone extremely familiar with rebuilding and building these engines. If you people want to say conroy should be defending himself on here (i don't think there is any advantage to him doing so), people should also be asking why the mythical rotary expert won't state his credentials? What rotary shop does he work for, how many years, how many rotaries has he rebuilt and/or built. How many rotaries of his are successfully racing? Who do we know in the community currently running one of his 'great' engines??? My guess is he is a backyard mechanic, or at best a mechanic at a shop like Midas or Canadian tire. My guess is he has literally zero rotaries on the road he's rebuilt.

So like i said on 780tuners. OP doesn't have a list a mile long of problems. He has about 1.5 problems.

1) being the engine blowing up, which has nothing to do with OP's huge list of non issues, and from OP's own mouth conroy was willing to rebuild, but for whatever reason OP blew him off because of 'reasons'. I don't care what OP's excuses are on this, given the choice of no engine rebuild, and a rebuild from a guy i used to think was A-ok and now think is a fuck off, i'm still going to take the engine rebuild.
0.5) being that the port job is ugly, but it's not as bad as OP claims, and could be solved when the engine was rebuilt, which as OP admits, conroy was willing to do before he told him to go fly a kite for some unknown reason.

Which brings up all the red flags. Why did this take 3 years? Why did OP open up his own engine (who does that? it voids warranty instantly everywhere)? Why did OP turn down a free engine rebuild that costs thousands in exchange for demanding a measly $1000 (which doesn't even cover parts) and risking ending up with nothing. Who does any of that? Nut jobs.

P.S. I find it amazing conroy was willing to warranty an engine some random guy opened up himself. How many shops would do that...

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Zhao Kan
If you actually owned a shop you know it's absolutely impossible to get it right every single time

Ya OP if you owned a shop you'd know how hard it was to put the correct parts in and not let your toddler port the engine. :nut:

"But Rx7club has people posting worse". Well that's a hell of a defence for shitty craftsmanship :rofl:

Maybe if I type out a long enough diatribe I'll distract from what the photos show? Nope, still looks like a clown with no integrity sold a heap of shit to a paying customer. Oh and for the record I know exactly what I'm look at thanks. Just my opinion of course.

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by Zhao Kan


Your post is a bit all over the place.

If you actually owned a shop you know it's absolutely impossible to get it right every single time. Look at car manufacturers; they have infinite money spent on R&amp;D, have been doing it for centuries, have all the best equipment to build stuff, and they still fuck stuff up. Right now here in Edmonton there is a new viper with about 5km on the odometer, that has already had it's engine swapped out. Do you know why? Because the first one grenaded on arrival.

Having owned and worked for automotive businesses before (and anyone who has who sees a high volume of customs will agree) it is absolutely impossible to be perfect, Not all customers have reasonable expectations, and not all customers are sane rational people. It's how you handle the fuckups that maintain your business' reputation, because everyone knows there will be fuckups... but sometimes you just gotta cut your losses and tell a customer to piss off because there is absolutely nothing you can do to make them happy.

I'm guessing since this is the first problem i've ever heard at 4kruzn, this is one of those times.

The OP has complained about conroy using rotor housings and rotors he should not of used, a bearing that was worn through to copper, a nick in a seal, shitty porting, conroy not being reasonable, and god knows what else.

here are the facts:
- that bearing is fine, we can tell from how much copper is showing that it is perfectly within tolerances. OP and his expert are wrong on this.
- there is no evidence there is anything wrong with the pictures of the rotors or rotor housings. there is no gouges, peeling, abnormal wear, no points it's worn through, and no chunks taken out of it. there are worse rotor housings on clubrx7 that people are asking if they're ok to reuse and the answer is yup yup yup. OP and his expert are wrong on this. That rotor housing surface looks great in pictures.
- the ports. sure, i've seen conroy do better, but again, there are ports on clubrx7 people are posting all over the place that look far worse, and no one is jumping up and down saying how much of an abomination they are. Does anyone actually know what they're looking at when they see those ports, or are people just seeing ultra close ups and going &quot;omg that's not ported and polished like gran turismo says they need to be!?&quot; OP and his expert have somewhat of a leg to stand on here, but are they functional? Yes. Are they going to be responsible for grenading an engine? no. Did OP pay a crazy amount of money to get his engine rebuilt? no, he got a dirt cheap bargain basement rate.
- The mythical FC3S eccentric shaft. First off, these are interchangeable and people commonly swap them in-between rotary engines, including the Renesis engine from my understanding. 2nd off, how do you even know it's from a FC since visually I can't tell a difference? There is debate on what shaft is better also. Some claim the rx8s because they are harder, but others say the balancing on the original 13b's make them better. the 13b-rew's seem to be mid point, where they sit between 13b and renesis for balance and hardness.
- OP's expert. It's clear OP's expert is not someone extremely familiar with rebuilding and building these engines. If you people want to say conroy should be defending himself on here (i don't think there is any advantage to him doing so), people should also be asking why the mythical rotary expert won't state his credentials? What rotary shop does he work for, how many years, how many rotaries has he rebuilt and/or built. How many rotaries of his are successfully racing? Who do we know in the community currently running one of his 'great' engines??? My guess is he is a backyard mechanic, or at best a mechanic at a shop like Midas or Canadian tire. My guess is he has literally zero rotaries on the road he's rebuilt.

So like i said on 780tuners. OP doesn't have a list a mile long of problems. He has about 1.5 problems.

1) being the engine blowing up, which has nothing to do with OP's huge list of non issues, and from OP's own mouth conroy was willing to rebuild, but for whatever reason OP blew him off because of 'reasons'. I don't care what OP's excuses are on this, given the choice of no engine rebuild, and a rebuild from a guy i used to think was A-ok and now think is a fuck off, i'm still going to take the engine rebuild.
0.5) being that the port job is ugly, but it's not as bad as OP claims, and could be solved when the engine was rebuilt, which as OP admits, conroy was willing to do before he told him to go fly a kite for some unknown reason.

Which brings up all the red flags. Why did this take 3 years? Why did OP open up his own engine (who does that? it voids warranty instantly everywhere)? Why did OP turn down a free engine rebuild that costs thousands in exchange for demanding a measly $1000 (which doesn't even cover parts) and risking ending up with nothing. Who does any of that? Nut jobs.

P.S. I find it amazing conroy was willing to warranty an engine some random guy opened up himself. How many shops would do that...

You should figure out who 962kid is before you call him a backyard mechanic. Makes you look like a HUGE idiot.

[HiTempguy1]

We've asked who he is, no one will share :dunno:

And it's a "bit" different to be a stellar mechanic compared to a stellar rotary mechanic.

All of Zhao's comments are valid. The OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, and hasn't since the thread started.:dunno:

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
We've asked who he is, no one will share :dunno:

And it's a &quot;bit&quot; different to be a stellar mechanic compared to a stellar rotary mechanic.

All of Zhao's comments are valid. The OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, and hasn't since the thread started.:dunno:

Page 2.

[cancer man]

When i had my shop before it went underwater, I always had people ask me to cut corners to save money. I made it clear no Warranty. 3800 to rebuild a rotary engine properly not going to happen. corners had to be be cut. {and i think the op new that)
I think.. hey Conroy what can you do for 3800.00 and Conroy gave him 3800.00 worth.
I'am surprised hey even offered to repair it.

That's almost the price of a timing belt replacement on an Audi.
Shame on you Conroy should've charged him at least 7 g's

[Mista Bob]

Wonder if any of the people posting these hilarious replies currently have their engine in the 4 Kruzn shop. Would explain the whole throwing logic out the window for an opportunity to white knight this fine craftsmanship. :rofl:


Originally posted by Zhao Kan

If you actually owned a shop you know it's absolutely impossible to get it right every single time.

If you actually owned a shop and let slip ups like this get out, you deserve to go out of business.


Originally posted by Zhao Kan

Right now here in Edmonton there is a new viper with about 5km on the odometer, that has already had it's engine swapped out. Do you know why?
Yes. Because it's a Chrysler.



Originally posted by Zhao Kan

Having owned and worked for automotive businesses before (and anyone who has who sees a high volume of customs will agree) it is absolutely impossible to be perfect

I completely agree with you. However there are "oops my bad didn't realize" mistakes and then there is "I don't give a fuck" mistakes. It's pretty easy to tell the difference, if you can stop and step into reality for a second or two.


Originally posted by Zhao Kan

Not all customers have reasonable expectations, and not all customers are sane rational people. It's how you handle the fuckups that maintain your business' reputation, because everyone knows there will be fuckups... but sometimes you just gotta cut your losses and tell a customer to piss off because there is absolutely nothing you can do to make them happy.

Is it unreasonable to want the parts you paid for, and work done properly? How can anyone even argue with this?
Would be much easier to argue for this being fraud than for it being "no big deal". :rofl:



Originally posted by Zhao Kan

I'm guessing since this is the first problem i've ever heard at 4kruzn, this is one of those times.

And this makes a difference how? If he had done 100,000 perfect jobs before this one it still wouldn't make this any less wrong.




Originally posted by Zhao Kan

P.S. I find it amazing conroy was willing to warranty an engine some random guy opened up himself. How many shops would do that...

Probably most shops when its obvious they fucked up.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
The OP doesn't have a leg to stand on, and hasn't since the thread started.:dunno:

Ya unless of course you consider the fact OP paid for a streetport and didn't get it (are you familiar with a proper streetport?). Oh and paid for RA Super Seals and didn't get them, neither of which are warranty related issues :rofl:

But, but, but, it was a budget build! It's not that hard to say "hey I can't properly port an engine for that amount of money, sorry". Instead he charged for porting and let the shop cat claw at the ports for awhile.

The opinion (which I share) of most people in this thread is the same. There is NO excuse for craftsmanship like this, none. If you're defending this shit you either don't understand a rotary or you're a delusional white knight, it's just that simple.