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phreezee
08-23-2015, 08:42 PM
Mulcair plans to run Canada using Manitoba as an example of success!
God help us all.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/mulcair-trumpets-taxes-and-debt-230002481.html


BRANDON -- Federal NDP leader Thomas Mulcair says if his party wins the next federal general election, his government will manage Canada's finances in the same manner as Greg Selinger has managed Manitoba's finances. That's the message Mulcair delivered to assembled media while campaigning in Brandon on Monday. It echoes comments he made earlier this year, when he convened a meeting of provincial NDP leaders, including Selinger, to talk strategy and reassure Canadians a Mulcair government could be trusted to steer the nation's economy in a reasonable, competent manner. He said at the time "The NDP's very proud of its track record of prudent public administration in the five provinces and in the territories where it has been in power," and that "Greg Selinger's got a lot to show to other provinces and to the federal government about creating jobs and putting fiscal effort where it can produce the best results." He went further in his praise for Selinger on Monday, telling radio station CKLQ Manitoba's recent PST hike was the right choice and having the lowest unemployment rate in Canada is an indication of how well the province is doing. Mulcair is either oblivious to the economic gong show that has been playing out in Manitoba for the past several years, or he sees a silver lining that is eluding the consciousness of a large majority of Manitobans. For starters, Manitoba doesn't have the lowest unemployment rate in the country. The latest Statistics Canada report indicates that the honour goes to Alberta and Saskatchewan. While Mulcair lauds Manitoba's balanced budgets, Gary Doer's NDP government only managed to balance its books thanks to massive annual federal transfers, and the province's finances have been dripping red ink since 2008. The Selinger government overspent by $580 million last year and is projecting a deficit of $518 million for the current year. Though it claims the budget will be balanced by 2017, the current rate of spending versus revenues will make that objective very difficult to achieve. Even if the books are balanced by then, Manitoba's net summary debt will have almost doubled from the $10.6 billion that was owed in 2008 -- a record high for the province. While Mulcair seeks to convince Canadians a federal government under his leadership would not impose unreasonable tax hikes, Manitoba is probably the worst example he could cite as a tax-friendly jurisdiction. Indeed, the province has among the highest income tax rates for families in the entire nation. Last year, the Selinger government imposed the largest tax increase in more than two decades. It followed that up this year with a PST increase, breaking a 2011 election campaign promise and ignoring a provincial law requiring a provincewide referendum before such a hike. On Monday, Mulcair said he was "willing to work to make sure Canadians get the government they deserve," but do they deserve a federal version of the Selinger government? If the past 12 months of opinion polls in Manitoba are a guide, he should not be surprised by the answer. Mulcair's comments could not come at a worse time for Cory Szczepanski, the NDP candidate in the Brandon-Souris byelection, nor for Natalie Courcelles Beaudry, who is running for the NDP in Provencher. Polls show the Selinger government is extremely unpopular in both ridings, and anti-NDP sentiment at the provincial level could harm both NDP candidates' results in the two byelections. Probe Research's Curtis Brown says it is already having an impact. "There is definitely a link between support for the federal and provincial parties," he says. "Our recent polling shows the federal NDP third in Manitoba behind the Conservatives and the Liberals and we have to expect that is tied to the fact the provincial NDP is at a low ebb in support." This is an important time for Mulcair and for his party, as he tries to persuade Canadians he leads a team that is ready to be Canada's next government. Pointing to Canada's last remaining NDP provincial government as an example of prudent leadership does not help his case.

JRSC00LUDE
08-23-2015, 08:52 PM
Lol, go Tom go! :rofl:

schocker
08-23-2015, 09:12 PM
BUT NDP IS THE ONLY WAY!!!! :rofl:



While Mulcair seeks to convince Canadians a federal government under his leadership would not impose unreasonable tax hikes, Manitoba is probably the worst example he could cite as a tax-friendly jurisdiction. Indeed, the province has among the highest income tax rates for families in the entire nation. Last year, the Selinger government imposed the largest tax increase in more than two decades. It followed that up this year with a PST increase, breaking a 2011 election campaign promise and ignoring a provincial law requiring a provincewide referendum before such a hike.


Gees, was going to move to winnipeg but if the NDP can bring results like that to NDP along with them giving a big help to Notley, then I am in :D

dirtsniffer
08-23-2015, 10:50 PM
Lol. All for openness.

ZenOps
08-24-2015, 07:09 AM
Amazing amount of honesty nowadays. Trump is also very straightforward.

Unlike the "Balanced budget" Harper. By my measuring stick, its not really balancing if you printed an extra $100 Billion to get there.

mikestypes
08-24-2015, 08:19 AM
I loath the NDP and I am from Manitoba so I have experienced the pain.

To be fair though, this article was from 2013.

Cos
08-24-2015, 08:37 AM
.

schocker
08-24-2015, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by mikestypes
I loath the NDP and I am from Manitoba so I have experienced the pain.

To be fair though, this article was from 2013.
Whoops. Still valid though :)

NDP just running them into the ground, and no election for them until April 2016.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-government-s-debt-rising-faster-than-predicted-1.3102488

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manitoba-s-credit-rating-downgraded-due-to-growing-debt-1.3147120

Alberta $14b debt, 4.1m people
Manitoba $33b debt, 1.3m people
That is a higher debt to person ratio than Ontario :rofl:

Toma
08-24-2015, 09:45 AM
Ass apposed to the 8 straight years of Harper Debt, concurrent with the massive economic boom our #1 trading partner experienced? A recovery that saw their stock market triple from the bottom i 2009, housing doubked, unemployment halved, ajd they wete building and buying like the world was gonna end.

And Canada debt, after debt, after debt.... 8 years straight years. robbing veterans, selling tax payer owned shares in General motors to try and cover the shortfall in his failed economic policy. Spending a BILLION dollars on self promoting advertising and spin doctors?

Harper has the worse economic record since Ww2.

fact.

A monkey woukd have done better. The only way he could have done this bad, is if he did it on purpose, to appease his corporate masters.

http://www.pressprogress.ca/6_charts_show_stephen_harper_has_the_worst_economic_record_of_any_prime_minister_since_world_war_ii

JRSC00LUDE
08-24-2015, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Toma
A monkey woukd have done better.

Well Mulcair is a monkey at best so maybe we'll see, I would bet you'll be eating these words in 4 years if it goes that route though. I'm no dyed in the wool blind Harper supporter but I'm also not so dumb to think that a party who has broken every province they have ever held power in won't fuck this Country well beyond anything the oh so evil Harper has done.

As said before, it's too bad the Liberals don't have a leader. Conservative minority with a Liberal second is the only thing I see as a tolerable outcome of this election. Any other result will be a fuckshow, including another Conservative majority.

Toma
08-24-2015, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Well Mulcair is a monkey at best so maybe we'll see, I would bet you'll be eating these words in 4 years if it goes that route though. I'm no dyed in the wool blind Harper supporter but I'm also not so dumb to think that a party who has broken every province they have ever held power in won't fuck this Country well beyond anything the oh so evil Harper has done.

As said before, it's too bad the Liberals don't have a leader. Conservative minority with a Liberal second is the only thing I see as a tolerable outcome of this election. Any other result will be a fuckshow, including another Conservative majority.

Broken every province? Lol. Cheap election sound bites. Some context and history is relevant. Too much to ask from Harper supporters.

JRSC00LUDE
08-24-2015, 06:23 PM
I don't support Harper actually, I just support the NDP even less. That should be obvious from most of my posts. You can't decry what you call a broad stroke statement when that's all you post for the most part. In fact, you just made another one.

Where is an example of a successful and prosperous NDP run province? No cherry picking stats either.

403Gemini
08-24-2015, 09:36 PM
"Statistics Canada shows that Manitoba’s unemployment rate in December 2014 was low, at 5.2%. At first glance not bad at all compared to the national rate of 6.6%. But when we factor in those who have left Manitoba to look for work, our unemployment rate could be closer to 13.8%. Manitoba exports its unemployment to other provinces. "

http://www.manitobaforward.ca/manitobas-real-unemployment-rate/

Nitro5
08-24-2015, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Toma
Ass apposed to the 8 straight years of Harper Debt, concurrent with the massive economic boom our #1 trading partner experienced? A recovery that saw their stock market triple from the bottom i 2009, housing doubked, unemployment halved, ajd they wete building and buying like the world was gonna end.

And Canada debt, after debt, after debt.... 8 years straight years. robbing veterans, selling tax payer owned shares in General motors to try and cover the shortfall in his failed economic policy. Spending a BILLION dollars on self promoting advertising and spin doctors?

Harper has the worse economic record since Ww2.

fact.

A monkey woukd have done better. The only way he could have done this bad, is if he did it on purpose, to appease his corporate masters.

http://www.pressprogress.ca/6_charts_show_stephen_harper_has_the_worst_economic_record_of_any_prime_minister_since_world_war_ii

It's not that straight forward. The majority of the debt was created during the minority governments where the NDP demanded more spending in the budget.

Since the Cons have had a majority the deficits have been going down.

Don't pretend that the budgets would have been magically better if the NDP had won the last few elections as they wanted to spend even more as the minority budgets were a compromise on both sides.

JRSC00LUDE
08-25-2015, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by Nitro5


It's not that straight forward. The majority of the debt was created during the minority governments where the NDP demanded more spending in the budget.

Since the Cons have had a majority the deficits have been going down.

Don't pretend that the budgets would have been magically better if the NDP had won the last few elections as they wanted to spend even more as the minority budgets were a compromise on both sides.

No. It was all Harper serving his corporate masters. He strong armed the NDP into spending that money in those budgets from inside his closet. He was PM, his personal fault. :nut:

Sugarphreak
08-25-2015, 08:04 AM
...

killramos
08-25-2015, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


No. It was all Harper serving his corporate masters. He strong armed the NDP into spending that money in those budgets from inside his closet. He was PM, his personal fault. :nut:

He is an Iron Fisted dictator after all

:rolleyes:

sputnik
08-25-2015, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by phreezee
Mulcair plans to run Canada using Manitoba as an example of success!
God help us all.

There is a reason why the Progressive Conservatives are polling well in Manitoba right now.

That said. The NDP under Gary Doer was MUCH different fiscally than under the current premier Greg Sellinger.

Gary Doer is now the Canadian ambassador to the US and speaks very highly of Stephen Harper's economic plan for Canada.

sputnik
08-25-2015, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by schocker
Alberta $14b debt, 4.1m people
Manitoba $33b debt, 1.3m people
That is a higher debt to person ratio than Ontario :rofl:

Alberta is an outlier due to oil and gas revenue.

If you think that if the Alberta Conservatives were running Manitoba that Manitoba would have no debt is pretty ignorant of the golden goose the Alberta has been benefiting from for decades.

Lets see how Alberta looks 5 years from now if oil doesn't go past the $50-60 mark.

sputnik
08-25-2015, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Toma
Ass apposed to the 8 straight years of Harper Debt, concurrent with the massive economic boom our #1 trading partner experienced?

You mean the $35B debt imposed on Harper and the Canadian people when the Libs/NDP/Bloc threatened a coalition to bring down the government if Harper didn't drive Canada into debt by calling it "stimulus spending"?

schocker
08-25-2015, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by sputnik
Alberta is an outlier due to oil and gas revenue.

If you think that if the Alberta Conservatives were running Manitoba that Manitoba would have no debt is pretty ignorant of the golden goose the Alberta has been benefiting from for decades.

Lets see how Alberta looks 5 years from now if oil doesn't go past the $50-60 mark.
I was only using it as a comparison but their debt ratio is very high compared to other provinces.

phreezee
08-25-2015, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by sputnik


Alberta is an outlier due to oil and gas revenue.

If you think that if the Alberta Conservatives were running Manitoba that Manitoba would have no debt is pretty ignorant of the golden goose the Alberta has been benefiting from for decades.

Lets see how Alberta looks 5 years from now if oil doesn't go past the $50-60 mark.

It would have been worse for Manitoba without Alberta oil and gas revenue (transfer payments) either way. If oil doesn't rebound, Manitoba debt will be even worse. There's also O&G jobs in Brandon.

killramos
08-25-2015, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by sputnik


Alberta is an outlier due to oil and gas revenue.

If you think that if the Alberta Conservatives were running Manitoba that Manitoba would have no debt is pretty ignorant of the golden goose the Alberta has been benefiting from for decades.

Lets see how Alberta looks 5 years from now if oil doesn't go past the $50-60 mark.

So whats Ontario's excuse then?

Whats (Insert Canadian Province here)'s excuse then?

sputnik
08-25-2015, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by phreezee
There's also O&G jobs in Brandon.

The government doesn't benefit from O&G in Manitoba like Alberta does.

In Alberta most of the land with O&G is either on crown land or on land where the landowner doesn't have the mineral rights. In Manitoba most of the land where the oil is has the mineral rights retained by the owner (since the land was settled back in the 1800s).

As a result the oil royalties go to the landowner and not the province. However the province is still on the hook for fixing the roads that are being destroyed by heavy machinery running through the area.

That said. The current NDP government is terrible and is dealing with a TON of infighting as well. It is only a matter of time before the PCs have a crack at running the province.

What I do find interesting is that I am currently seeing A LOT of Alberta license plates in Winnipeg these days.

mikestypes
08-25-2015, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by sputnik
What I do find interesting is that I am currently seeing A LOT of Alberta license plates in Winnipeg these days.

Thats because those who have left Manitoba for Alberta come back for a nice summer vacation at the family cottage...we had 3 Alberta plated cars running around Winnipeg and the Whiteshell all summer.