Vehicle Emissions Standards in AB

[EM2FTL]

Vehicle emissions standards being considered by #abgov as result of Canadian Ambient Air Quality results
https://twitter.com/LedgeWatcher/status/641711742070816768


Enviro Minister says they can now take a more rigorous approach to license renewal
https://twitter.com/LedgeWatcher/status/641714462236393472

Given this information, I encourage everyone to participate and share your thoughts with the newly appointed Climate Change Panel regardless of whether you are for or against emissions testing. As a straightpiped rotary driver, I may be more scared than some others.... :(

Engagement options include taking a survey, attending an open house, or providing written submissions.

http://alberta.ca/climate-leadership.cfm

[dirtsniffer]

How can they be wheeling this shit out but be so fucking mum on the budget?

Answer: cause Tommy Boy won't let them release it. Alberta is already screwed, but if Ottawa gets direct control over us we are so fucked, so so so fucked.

Oh we're fucked. looking at the board here comes $300 dollar a year emission testing for cars.

[Canmorite]

If car enthusiasts can get on in California, I think we'll be ok.

[schocker]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
How can they be wheeling this shit out but be so fucking mum on the budget?

Answer: cause Tommy Boy won't let them release it. Alberta is already screwed, but if Ottawa gets direct control over us we are so fucked, so so so fucked.

Oh we're fucked. looking at the board here comes $300 dollar a year emission testing for cars.
Yup, what we need is more government BS. Vehicle emission standards are federally mandated much like oh say the noise levels.

[dirtsniffer]

doing the survey of course they have the stacked question where you have to select one of the fucked policies as your favorite. and then they will tout that shit.

[JustinL]

Worst case is that I would have to re-cat a couple of my older cars. I'd prefer not to have to buy more parts if I could avoid it. If they grandfathered old cars in, it wouldn't affect me, but across the board limits might be a tricky one.

I'm not sure how this would help reduce CO2 emissions though which seems to be the bigger target than smog.

[Mibz]

I'm all for more rigorous vehicle registration/renewal procedures to get some shitboxes with broken tail lights and bald tires off the road. Of course that's not at all what they use this for, but whatever.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mibz
I'm all for more rigorous vehicle registration/renewal procedures to get some shitboxes with broken tail lights and bald tires off the road. Of course that's not at all what they use this for, but whatever.

My take exactly.

While we are at it, we should reinstate DMV where all testing (driving or emission) to be performed by government employees that has no conflict of interest.

We have some many shitty drivers since we went to private testing.

Letting private garages do testing means just taking more $ out of owners and into mechanics.

[rage2]

Even green hippie BC got rid of it last year because it's a huge waste of money.

So this all stems from this:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-on-track-to-have-worst-air-quality-in-canada-says-environment-minister-1.3221336

WTF is in Red Deer that causes poor air quality? Is it cars from it's 90,000 residents? And if not, why the hell are they focusing on vehicles?

The California argument is silly. The reason why car enthusiasts get away with it in California (and other states that regulate regular testing) is because people break the laws and cheat, similar to how some places pass OOP on cars that are shit. It fixes nothing.

There are guys in Cali that engine swap before/after a test every 2 years. :rofl:

[codetrap]

.

[16hypen3sp]

.............

C'mon guys. The whole vehicle emissions is a side circus compared to what's really going on. But I bet most people at the numerous car show and shines/cruise nights around the province wouldn't like to hear it. Not to mention, the lifted rigs with the DEF delete kits.

So just more nanny state bullshit. Softening the blow for more regs.


What's really going is apparently Phillips doesn't want to settle with just damaging the O&G industry. She also wants to take on chemical plants and maybe even agriculture with this one.

Apparently, the Red Deer area has some horrible air quality. Lol. Lived around here my entire life and never heard that one before. Completely disagree with it.

She wants to consult with industry in the area in the region. i.e. Nova Chemicals.... owned by IPIC. Would be very interesting to see how the guys at IPIC handled being told to lower their production or invest in tech for a cleaner process.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-on-track-to-have-worst-air-quality-in-canada-says-environment-minister-1.3221336

[speedog]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
How can they be wheeling this shit out but be so fucking mum on the budget?

Answer: cause Tommy Boy won't let them release it. Alberta is already screwed, but if Ottawa gets direct control over us we are so fucked, so so so fucked.

Oh we're fucked. looking at the board here comes $300 dollar a year emission testing for cars.
Well there's got to be some people out there happy with this including numerous beyond members because the NDP got in with quite a majority - I guess there just wasn't enough old grey haired fuckers like myself who didn't vote NDP.

[HiTempguy1]

Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. I repent, I was wrong, fuck everything to do with the NDP. :guns:

Vehicle emissions is both asinine and does have a serious detrimental affect on car culture. I already have a hard enough time INSURING the rally car, now I won't be able to get it to pass registration. God damnit. I REGRET EVERYTHING.


Originally posted by rage2

WTF is in Red Deer that causes poor air quality? Is it cars from it's 90,000 residents? And if not, why the hell are they focusing on vehicles?


Its the Joffre plantsite area. Central Alberta has the highest per capita incidence rate of asthmatics in Canada too.

"NOVA Chemicals’ Joffre manufacturing facility lies just east of Red Deer, Alberta and is one the largest ethylene and polyethylene production complexes in the world. The site actually consists of five manufacturing facilities: three for ethylene production and two for polyethylene production."

DOW produces some plain bad shit out there that is seriously unhealthy. Places like Agrium producing ammonia based fertilizer isn't so bad, and they haven't had a leak in ages.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by rage2
Even green hippie BC got rid of it last year because it's a huge waste of money.

So this all stems from this:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-on-track-to-have-worst-air-quality-in-canada-says-environment-minister-1.3221336

WTF is in Red Deer that causes poor air quality? Is it cars from it's 90,000 residents? And if not, why the hell are they focusing on vehicles?

The California argument is silly. The reason why car enthusiasts get away with it in California (and other states that regulate regular testing) is because people break the laws and cheat, similar to how some places pass OOP on cars that are shit. It fixes nothing.

There are guys in Cali that engine swap before/after a test every 2 years. :rofl:

Nailed it!

It wouldn't hurt to suggest in panel submissions that they examine BC's system, and why it has been axed.

Completely agree re: Cali... the tuner life out there due to regulations is not something we want to emulate.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Its the Joffre plantsite area. Central Alberta has the highest per capita incidence rate of asthmatics in Canada too.



They must have shoved their testing devices right down a few boiler stacks.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by rage2
The California argument is silly. The reason why car enthusiasts get away with it in California (and other states that regulate regular testing) is because people break the laws and cheat, similar to how some places pass OOP on cars that are shit. It fixes nothing.

There are guys in Cali that engine swap before/after a test every 2 years. :rofl:

That I did not know...that's dedication right there :rofl:

[16hypen3sp]

So anyways... should everyone with aftermarket exhaust be worried?

[firebane]

Fuck take a page from BC and drop this shit its useless and people find ways around it all the time.

If some stupid shit comes through like this its pretty much going to make most vehicles older than 10 years pretty much be a waste of money.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp

They must have shoved their testing devices right down a few boiler stacks.

You can't really get mad at the NDP about this (loathe as I am to say that), this information has been readily available for decades :dunno:

I also don't really understand what you are trying to say? Even if it is strictly c02 emissions from burning natural gas to produce energy, its still emissions :dunno:

[Tik-Tok]

I was going to email my MLA about this, but she's probably too busy with her yoga classes to read it.

[M.alex]

How the hell did NDP get such a strong majority ... everybody I know is anti-NDP.

[Inzane]

I warned you guys several months ago this was a possibility if the NDP got into power.


Originally posted by EM2FTL

http://alberta.ca/climate-leadership.cfm

And WTF does climate change have to do with emissions testing?

Are they concerned about greenhouse gases or air quality? Emissions controls on vehicles limit pollutants, not carbon dioxide and water vapour.
:dunno:

[Inzane]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
So anyways... should everyone with aftermarket exhaust be worried?

If just a catback, no.

But if any of pre-cats, main-cats or EGR systems have been removed, then yes. (especially if coupled with a VISUAL inspection for said parts).

[revelations]

Originally posted by rage2
Even green hippie BC got rid of it last year because it's a huge waste of money.

So this all stems from this:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-on-track-to-have-worst-air-quality-in-canada-says-environment-minister-1.3221336

WTF is in Red Deer that causes poor air quality? Is it cars from it's 90,000 residents? And if not, why the hell are they focusing on vehicles?

The California argument is silly. The reason why car enthusiasts get away with it in California (and other states that regulate regular testing) is because people break the laws and cheat, similar to how some places pass OOP on cars that are shit. It fixes nothing.

There are guys in Cali that engine swap before/after a test every 2 years. :rofl:

From reading that article, it doesn't appear they are focusing on vehicles exclusively. Sure, I could MAYBE see Red Deer-specific vehicle law (like AirCare used to just be in the Vancouver area) but most of the pollution comes from industry (coal plants?) which was what I read into this report - and that's where they are going to start.


Not sure why the reported tweeted that "ZOMG!! VEHICLE TESTING IS COMING TO AB" if her source was just that article.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I was going to email my MLA about this, but she's probably too busy with her yoga classes to read it.

At least they arent trying to shut down a bridge in a major city for a few hours to have Yoga on it (like Christy Clarke did in Vancouver).

[speedog]

Originally posted by M.alex
How the hell did NDP get such a strong majority ... everybody I know is anti-NDP.
Oh, there's plenty of people who voted NDP - plenty of beyond members and probably plenty that you know but they won't admit to it. I think for many, it was a protest vote that backfired on them - just sucks that those people are only now beginning to wake up to the devil that others warned them about and to think we have a federal election where we could very well get fucked over again as well.

I just wish people would stand up and be accountable for their actions - as much as I can respect some of the values the NDP may have, I can not and will not vote for them because the bad that comes with them just far too much outweighs any possible good.

On a side note, would this get rid of straight piped motorbikes?

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by speedog


On a side note, would this get rid of straight piped motorbikes?

Only for the day they have to get tested, lol.

[Fly Fishin']

Might get a few of those rolling coal tools off the road or at least force them to keep the chip on stock or eco more often.

[HomespunLobster]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Only for the day they have to get tested, lol.

Cant say I've ever seen a cat on a motorbike

[speedog]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Only for the day they have to get tested, lol.
But if the police pull you over in one of their safety checks like they had on Glenmore Trail yesterday by Stony Trail, then you'd be SOL..

[speedog]

Originally posted by HomespunLobster


Cant say I've ever seen a cat on a motorbike
That's why I asked - are there any similar type devices on a motorbike, it's been 20 years since I've owned a motorbike and I'm quite sure things are a bit different from what was on the 1985 FZ750 that I had.

[revelations]

Originally posted by HomespunLobster


Cant say I've ever seen a cat on a motorbike

I know that Gixxers and Viffers have had cats for some 10+ years.

[Inzane]

Originally posted by speedog

Oh, there's plenty of people who voted NDP - plenty of beyond members and probably plenty that you know but they won't admit to it. I think for many, it was a protest vote that backfired on them -

In my riding it really came down to the conservative vote split.
Numbers were something like:
NDP 37%
WR 30%
Cons 29%

[Darell_n]

Like BC, they will be going after commercial vehicles.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


You can't really get mad at the NDP about this (loathe as I am to say that), this information has been readily available for decades :dunno:

I also don't really understand what you are trying to say? Even if it is strictly c02 emissions from burning natural gas to produce energy, its still emissions :dunno:

We are not talking about C02. We are talking about pollution and NOx. Air quality goes after pollution and the big fish in pollution (not global warming/climate change) is NOx... And from what I see, the AB government placed restrictions on NOx a long time ago for industry and left out vehicles.

But now, the NDP want to place restrictions on it so peoples vehicles fail and then they can't drive their own vehicle AND can't really sell it to someone in AB because it won't pass.

Good one.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp


But now, the NDP want to place restrictions on it so peoples vehicles fail and then they can't drive their own vehicle AND can't really sell it to someone in AB because it won't pass.

Good one.

Did... did we read the same article? Where did you get your information from?

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Did... did we read the same article? Where did you get your information from?

I'm just going by what has been said in other articles about this sort of thing in other jurisdictions.


Even the co-founder of greenpeace said this was a bureaucratic nightmare and another tax.

[EM2FTL]

Here's a link to every MLA in Alberta:

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=mla_report&memPhoto=True&alphaboth=True&alphaindex=True&build=y&caucus=All&conoffice=True&legoffice=True&mememail=True

Regardless of who is sitting in your riding (whether NDP or another party), this is the time to make your voice heard and write to your MLA. If we as a car community can generate enough noise then our views will become part of the debate. Right now we aren't even on their radar...

[rage2]

Originally posted by revelations
Not sure why the reported tweeted that "ZOMG!! VEHICLE TESTING IS COMING TO AB" if her source was just that article.
Vehicle emissions standards was one specific examples cited by the environment minister in her action plan. This was brought up again on CBC radio this morning.


Originally posted by speedog
On a side note, would this get rid of straight piped motorbikes?
Motorcycles were exempt under AirCare. Residents wanted even stricter controls with AirCare before it was scrapped, throwing in things like fluid leaks, exhaust noise, and removing motorcycle exemptions to try to get straight piped Harleys off the road. Suffice to say, there's a vocal minority that was pretty pissed last year when the premier scrapped the program when they were pushing for another 10 year extension lol.

[Feruk]

From article.

"The report shows that, unless emissions are cut, most of the province risks exceeding the Canadian Ambient Air Quality Standards for fine particulate matter. This places an unacceptable burden on people's health and on the environment," he said.

It seems to me they're more targeting industry polluters than car owners...

However, I also agree that if your POS car can't meet the CANADIAN (not Alberta NDP) pollution standards, then it shouldn't be on the road. I'd love to see the Harleys gone. I'm not sure how you guys have managed to turn this into an NDP hating thread though.

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by speedog
On a side note, would this get rid of straight piped motorbikes?


Further to Rage's above post, noise bylaws were supposed to take care of that. Obviously, that isn't happening.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Feruk
From article.

"The report shows that, unless emissions are cut, most of the province risks exceeding the Canadian Ambient Air Quality Standards for fine particulate matter. This places an unacceptable burden on people's health and on the environment," he said.

Also from the article:

As part of the plan, Phillips said the government will:
- Review technology that could be used to reduce emissions.
�- Review whether polluters in Alberta are meeting national standards.
�- Look at other ways to reduce emissions, for example, ways to curb vehicle emissions.

[revelations]

The idiot reporter made it look like thats ALL the NDP was going to do when the opposite is true. Vehicles in a specific region MAY start getting Air Cared.

[Mibz]

Be curious to know what, if any, are the long-term air quality affects of the Washington fires.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Xtrema


My take exactly.

While we are at it, we should reinstate DMV where all testing (driving or emission) to be performed by government employees that has no conflict of interest.

We have some many shitty drivers since we went to private testing.

Letting private garages do testing means just taking more $ out of owners and into mechanics.

Private testing has been a disaster as the amount of poor drivers in this province has never been worse. When I got my drivers license there was no way you would pass unless you could prove you were competent and new the signs and laws. I have to assume they are either more lax now or some license are being bought. I've seen way too many drivers in this city that quite frankly have no business operating a motor vehicle on public roads.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by M.alex
How the hell did NDP get such a strong majority ... everybody I know is anti-NDP.

Don't underestimate the prevailing stupidity inherent in angry mobs.

[phreezee]

Next step, get fossil fueled cars out of our cities.

dQIGD5wr7vA

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by zipdoa on 05-06-2015 07:28 AM
As long as we don't get front plates, emissions testing, and taxes on used vehicle purchases, I'm happy.

I'm becoming unhappy.

Allroad with no cats, egr/sai/02/egt delete :(

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by heavyD


Don't underestimate the prevailing stupidity inherent in angry mobs.

:werd: A prime example is this thread :rofl:

One little blurb about possibly looking at vehicle emission reduction (note, nothing about private vehicles mentioned specifically), and the entirety of Beyond goes apeshit, and starts creating their own rumors. :nut:

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


:werd: A prime example is this thread :rofl:

One little blurb about possibly looking at vehicle emission reduction (note, nothing about private vehicles mentioned specifically), and the entirety of Beyond goes apeshit, and starts creating their own rumors. :nut:

The point of this thread is to make people aware that this is potentially coming, and to make their voices heard NOW if they're opposed. Crying foul after the policy has run through Cabinet and is on its way to becoming law isn't going to achieve much, but engaging now can actually impact what the government chooses to do.

Anyone here familiar with the concept of a trial balloon? This is a prime example - throw out the idea, and see how the public reacts.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by heavyD


Private testing has been a disaster as the amount of poor drivers in this province has never been worse. When I got my drivers license there was no way you would pass unless you could prove you were competent and new the signs and laws. I have to assume they are either more lax now or some license are being bought. I've seen way too many drivers in this city that quite frankly have no business operating a motor vehicle on public roads.

At least I know it is common practice with Chinese driving schools. Pay a few more hours and another test and you'll get your license.

AMA is still pretty strict and fair. Many fails at AMA end up getting licenses with Chinese instructor/testers. There is really no checks and balances on that at all.

[dirtsniffer]

AMA isn't allowed to do testing any more because it has to be a publicly available test or some shit. I also found them fair when I was getting my license.

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by phreezee
Next step, get fossil fueled cars out of our cities.

dQIGD5wr7vA

Guy is a nutcase

[Inzane]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
AMA isn't allowed to do testing any more

Say whaaaaa...............??? :eek:

[RickDaTuner]

Its an interestingly ignorant approach to a problem that is entirely industrial related and not an automotive one.

Its known that cars can be a large contributor to green house gases, everything from the gasoline that evaporates from the fill nozzle as you fill up, to the oil drops that may drip on the ground as you drive you car - can lead to hydrocarbons being released into the atmosphere.

But whats not that well known is that 99% of the cars rolling off the assembly line today will actually clean the air.
Our modern day emissions control system are so stringent that the greatest moment of pollution occurs during a regular oil change, or while filling up, as already mentioned.

in the 60s-90s cars used to be the problem, and the results was thick smog, and acid rain. The smog was dealt with through the introduction of EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) systems. While we still see smog today its no where near what it used to be. The acid rain was a result of the production process of gasoline, something to due with a sulphating purification process if I recall.

But now with addition of Urea, and particulate filtration (which most manufacturers are developing for use in gas engines as well), the air going into the engine will actually be dirtier than the air coming out the exhaust pipe.

As many of you have mentioned the greatest contributor to Green house gasses, and low air quality is industrial operations, who's emissions regulating governing body is as lackadaisical as a teen who's just been asked to take out the trash. Oil sands excluded of course.

BC got it right. The cost of operation was unjustifiable to due to the lack of infractions given, as the majority of people kept their cars well maintained and stock. Also most emissions warranties last past 160K kms or 8 years, so even if there was a fault, it was a free repair.

I really don't know where some of these politicians are coming form these days, just seems like the take something that sounds important, and run with it :dunno:

[Toma]

Since there is so much confusion.... Alberta budget is set April for our fiscal year. Ie, this years budget was set 6 months ago.

ALSO...

They've talked about emissions here several times over the last 20 years. Its not new, or out of the blue.

But, we are one of the few holdouts remaining.

Its inevitable, sooner or later.

The world won't end. There are often exemptions for pre emissions cars, collector cars, track cars, and I wouldn't doubt if there was some grandfathering considering our late start.

If a car with warranty, stringent emissions, and mileage restrictions can make 750hp, well be ok.

[16hypen3sp]

AB is usually known for its lowest cost of fuel in Canada... You can say goodbye to that.


Her ministry’s climate leadership discussion document outlines various approaches to reduce greenhouse gas emissions associated with transportation, including a carbon tax on fuel or on vehicle registration, based on vehicle size, fuel efficiency or mileage.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/carbon-tax-on-gasoline-or-vehicle-registration-remains-an-option

[Sugarphreak]

...

[revelations]

^ In BC you also pay GST (not PST) on PRIVATE used car purchases EVERY TIME it changes hands and the cost of insurance through ICBC is retarded.

[rage2]

Why don't they just tax fuel? Oh right, because that would mean they're not taxing people with money enough lol.

[phreezee]

There's a survey you guys can fill out to "have your say":
https://climateleadershipsurvey.alberta.ca/

We will be paying personal carbon taxes soon enough.

[Xtrema]

I will agree to carbon tax on fuel only if that means money is diverted to $10K off EVs.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by phreezee
There's a survey you guys can fill out to "have your say":
https://climateleadershipsurvey.alberta.ca/

We will be paying personal carbon taxes soon enough.

This is a really good example of an incredibly biased survey. It's no mystery what conclusion they are going to draw from asking questions in that format. :rofl: The people have spoken they want more taxes and to tax the shit out of evil polluting companies!

What a bunch of stupidity. If we want to address climate change we should be building nuclear power plants not retarded solar and wind farms. I swear to god the morons in the environmentalist groups need to take a class on the power grid and the concept of base load power generation so they stop trying to hoist impossible plans.

[M.alex]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


This is a really good example of an incredibly biased survey. It's no mystery what conclusion they are going to draw from asking questions in that format. :rofl: The people has spoken they want more taxes and to tax the shit out of evil polluting companies!

What a bunch of stupidity. If we want to address climate change we should be building nuclear power plants not retarded solar and wind farms. I swear to god the morons in the environmentalist groups need to take a class on the power grid and the concept of base load power generation so they stop trying to hoist impossible plans.

I don't understand how they could even put out that survey - the climate change panel is being headed by a guy who's known for rigorous quantitative economic analysis .... and then they put out that and insult us by saying it will provide statistically sound results

[Toma]

oops

[phreezee]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


This is a really good example of an incredibly biased survey. It's no mystery what conclusion they are going to draw from asking questions in that format. :rofl: The people have spoken they want more taxes and to tax the shit out of evil polluting companies!

What a bunch of stupidity. If we want to address climate change we should be building nuclear power plants not retarded solar and wind farms. I swear to god the morons in the environmentalist groups need to take a class on the power grid and the concept of base load power generation so they stop trying to hoist impossible plans.

Apparently the NDP paid UofA's Andrew Leach $10k for a week of "consultation" and he put his name on the survey to give it some validity. NDP then appointed him to a Climate Change board.

bJpd3xkuPp0