About one month out, who has your vote?

[16hypen3sp]

Another beyond poll to see where we stand.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[btimbit]

Same as before.

I was absolutely ready to say goodbye to Harper and co. But Mulcair is a madman and Trudeau is just a complete idiot.

[Tik-Tok]

Really wish we had the same policy as the US. Two terms and you're out.

[revelations]

I see a Con minority - which would mean Harper is kept in check, somewhat.

[killramos]

Why would The results be any different than the last poll. None of the 3 parties has done shit fuck all in their campaigning.

People are calling this election exciting but it's boring as balls.

[jdmXSI]

Best outcome imo is a conservative minority. In any case, all options are crap.

[suntan]

Harper's been PM for nine years now. Just about as long as Chretien was. Grok.

[guessboi]

All options are crap but I will vote for the best of the worst = Conservative.

[JRSC00LUDE]

It's unfortunate that Harper is the only viable option, I just hope it's a minority with a Liberal second. Trudeau is in no way competent to lead but he'd make a solid opposition if they can hold some control.

The NDP is a scourge and you cannot trust Mulcair, he's deceitful as the day is long from what I feel and like it or not, you CAN judge a book by its cover fiscally. If he wasn't a career politician he'd be bankrupt based on his personal finances. Do you want to trust a national economy to someone who can't balance his own cheque book? Call it fear mongering all you want but it's painfully obvious they cannot cash all the cheques they want to write.

[BandW]

I'd like a conservative minority.

[Feruk]

Hoping for Liberal minority, which is strange considering I've only ever voted Conservative... Can't this time though.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
This is how Beyond did on the last election:

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232661

Beyond Votes:
Conservative (141) 66.2%
Liberals (33) 15.49%
New Democrats (14) 6.57%

Reality:
Conservatives (143) 37.65%
Liberals (77) 26.26%
New Democrats (37) 18.18%


Basically Beyond is pretty good at picking a winner

So how did we do for the provincial :rolleyes:

[Cos]

.

[sputnik]

I want to see a Harper minority.

This will keep crap like C51 and wars from happening but should keep the Conservative budgets in place.

[killramos]

I think, regardless what anyone says, if Harper gets a minority we will see a Mulcair led coalition.

That aside;

As a minority you basically have no power over your budgets. You think that just because the liberals or NDP lose the election they will stop trying to push shit like universal childcare on taxpayers?

The liberals play mostly a "We aren't the conservatives" platform right now so i don't see them going along with anything the conservatives do regardless of if they agree with it or not.

A minority will just mean that Canada will limp along getting nothing accomplished for the next 4 years when the opposition will just tout the fact that the incumbents haven't done anything with their mandate. Or more likely we have another election next summer.

I would rather the liberals win a majority over any minority situation, at least its 4 years of pain for people to remember exactly why we knocked them out last time and we can go back to running this country reasonably.

:dunno:

[NoPulp]

Undecided. I'm not happy with any of the choices.

[A790]

I'm prepared to deal with four years of bullshit if it means a "reset" on the status quo. I typically vote conservative, but I can't and won't vote Harper again.

[sabad66]

Hoping for Lib majority, but would be content with Lib minority or Con minority.

[dirtsniffer]

Here comes the vote split

[ickyflex]

All are bad, I'd be all for a conservative shakeup if the Liberals & NDP weren't crazies.

Just anyone but NDP

[Mitsu3000gt]

I don't follow the elections very closely so I will just vote for whoever is best for the oil market.

[Toma]

I have a question for all you Harperite Lemmings....

SERIOUSLY wondering.

Is there ANYTHING Harper could have done, that you would change your mind, and voted against him?

I cannot imagine a worse Prime Minister in a democratic free country.

Authoritarian nut job, killing information, science, environmental policy, voices.

Guilty of cheating in 3 previous elections. "Fair Elections" clearly designed to stifle voting. Even OSCE is sending in monitors to Canada, first time in 12 years.

At least 1/3 of his hand picked senate are scumbags.

C51, war monger chicken hawk that talks tough, hides in closets.

Economic disaster, only country of the G7 in a recession, despite Fantastic recovery with our #1 trading partner. (75% of our business is with the US, their GDP growth this quarter was 3.7%).

His motto was "jobs, growth, prosperity", and he failed at every single one.

EPIC example of a Hypocrite (criticized 20 page omnibus bills as uncanadian and undemocratic, throws 400 page crap at us... like C51, and others with cool sounding names).

I didnt like the liberals before him, but he made them look like geniuses compared to him.

What would it have taken for you Harperite lemmings to vote against him?

Your dogmatic support of the CONservatives is disturbing.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Understanding that the NDP will bankrupt the Country far worse than the Conservatives isn't dogmatic, it's common sense. Why are YOU not understanding that most people DON'T like them, they can just tell the difference between three poor choices.

You have yet to demonstrate, in any meaningful fashion, how the NDP will benefit the national economy. Period. And I'm pretty sure you've said yourself that Trudeau isn't suitable so what option does that leave? I don't really see anyone clamouring for a Conservative majority, everyone wants some balance. Gotta loosen your blinders man, I am positive you either don't read people's comments are just choose to ignore them. :dunno:

[phreezee]

I'm not opposed to a non PC minority so Harper resigns and let Mulcair/Justin sabotage himself and come back in the next election within 2 years. Any majority will likely be a bad result for Canada.

[BavarianBeast]

I hate harper but will be voting conservative.

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by Toma
I have a question for all you Harperite Lemmings....

SERIOUSLY wondering.

Is there ANYTHING Harper could have done, that you would change your mind, and voted against him?

I cannot imagine a worse Prime Minister in a democratic free country.

Authoritarian nut job, killing information, science, environmental policy, voices.

Guilty of cheating in 3 previous elections. "Fair Elections" clearly designed to stifle voting. Even OSCE is sending in monitors to Canada, first time in 12 years.

At least 1/3 of his hand picked senate are scumbags.

C51, war monger chicken hawk that talks tough, hides in closets.

Economic disaster, only country of the G7 in a recession, despite Fantastic recovery with our #1 trading partner. (75% of our business is with the US, their GDP growth this quarter was 3.7%).

His motto was "jobs, growth, prosperity", and he failed at every single one.

EPIC example of a Hypocrite (criticized 20 page omnibus bills as uncanadian and undemocratic, throws 400 page crap at us... like C51, and others with cool sounding names).

I didnt like the liberals before him, but he made them look like geniuses compared to him.

What would it have taken for you Harperite lemmings to vote against him?

Your dogmatic support of the CONservatives is disturbing.

I think you mistake Harper support for choosing the best of the worst options.

Liberals = Anti Pipeline = Nope
NDP = Anti Wealth + Anti Oil + Anti Common Sense = Nope

I'm all for diversifying the economy but to kill the industry we have been given is suicide. You can diversify the economy without killing the oil industry plain and simple. Neither or those parties seem to think so, so they will never get my vote. Increase taxes on the rich and do whatever, but don't kill the economy.

[killramos]

Everything that toma hates about the Conservatives both the NDP and the Liberals would do worse. That's the crux of the matter.

Honestly i swear its as simple with him as one time Harper budged in front of him in line at Tim Hortons or something and he declared Harper his mortal enemy. I have the same theory with Zenops and Anders.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/1903967.jpg

[phreezee]

^^^Harper derangement syndrome, it's a thing.

[pheoxs]

I'm split between liberal and ndp at the moment, will decide when it gets closer.

The Conservatives/Harper have done too many things I can't agree with to vote for them again. The fact that we ran a deficit every year they've been in power is ridiculous (and this year is still a deficit, pulling money from rainy day / EI funds to just barely make a surplus is just an election ploy not a balanced budget). We've followed too many of the US's policies that make no sense, we've lost a lot of our privacy/freedoms with C-51, and participating in the bombing of Syria, its all just too much to look past for me.

I'd like to see a Liberal or NDP minority, but at the same time I'm worried if we end up with a minority it will be dysfunctional because the opposing parties will just keep threatening to block everything for the sake of making their opponents look bad.

[A790]

Originally posted by Toma

The way you talk to people... it's no wonder so many simply choose to ignore you. When people talk to you like that, how do you respond? Do you have an engaging conversation, or does it become a pissing match? :rolleyes:

[Toma]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Understanding that the NDP will bankrupt the Country far worse than the Conservatives isn't dogmatic, it's common sense.

ABSOLUTELY BULLSHIT.

That is a dogmatic belief, plain and simple.

[Toma]

Originally posted by A790

The way you talk to people... it's no wonder so many simply choose to ignore you. When people talk to you like that, how do you respond? Do you have an engaging conversation, or does it become a pissing match? :rolleyes:

Got something to say?

Who cares what I think of Harper supporters. Borderline psychopaths, like he is....

I'm curious as to "what would it take".

That's the mindfuck.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by guessboi
All options are crap but I will vote for the best of the worst = Conservative.

This sums up how I feel. Won't vote NDP, like some of Trudeau's policies, hate some of Harper's, can't find a happy middle ground :dunno:

[A790]

Originally posted by Toma
Got something to say?

Who cares what I think of Harper supporters. Borderline psychopaths, like he is....

lol about the type of reply I expected.

"Got something to say?" Nice tough guy response, champ. Has it yet occurred to you that you're alienating more people than you're influencing?

[Cos]

.

[Toma]

Originally posted by A790

lol about the type of reply I expected.

"Got something to say?" Nice tough guy response, champ. Has it yet occurred to you that you're alienating more people than you're influencing?

Beat the grass, and the snakes come out.

I've never been worried about it.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Cos
https://votecompass.cbc.ca/

I'd vote almost solely based on this, as it tells you how your values align with party platform.

It tells you what they CLAIM they stand for...

For instance, if you want "fiscally conservative", you automatically tick one for CONservatives, yet CLEARLY they are the sell outs, and don't know the meaning of the word.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Toma


ABSOLUTELY BULLSHIT.

That is a dogmatic belief, plain and simple.

Perhaps if Mulcair actually released his full platform including the way he plans to finance it you would have a valid argument.

Unfortunately the entire NDP campaign right now feeds the economically ignorant with FUD.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Toma
I'm curious as to "what would it take"

It would take Mulcair or Trudeau to have a better platform for the economy.

Mulcair still hasn't released a full party platform with financial details and Trudeau just keeps releasing his platform with added deficit numbers for unsustainable programs (like his $1.5B youth employment boondoggle).

So here we sit. At the status quo.

Someone needs to tell the NDP and Liberal parties that if they want to beat Harper, they need to get in front of him with real numbers and a real plan to make the country better. Not just stand in front of the camera saying "Harper sucks. I'm better. Vote for me."

[SkiBum5.0]

The biggest threat of a Trudeau government is the people who stand behind him. He's a figurehead for the Libs, but behind him are the engineers of Dalton McGuinty's Ontario. These are the people that have brought such hits as:
- Orange
- $12B Deficit ($7B increase while he was Premier)
- $255B in Debt
- 2nd to only Quebec on the "take" side of equalization payments
- And the best of them all - his alternative energy fiasco

I think Justin is a charismatic guy, who could probably lead the country with the right people behind him advising him how not to run us straight into the ground.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by Cos
https://votecompass.cbc.ca/

I'd vote almost solely based on this, as it tells you how your values align with party platform.

I don't trust anything on CBC, they want their NDP promised $115M.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-promises-to-reverse-funding-cuts-to-cbc-1.2927984

I'm for cutting all public funding to the CBC.

[Mitsu3000gt]

The "vote compass" gave me Conservative by a mile, so it seems reasonably accurate at least for me.

[ickyflex]

Gave me conservative as well. I wish Toma ran for NDP. He'd make sure they lose by a landslide.

That attitude is embarrassing. Want to sway people to vote for the NDP, show me a plan that makes any of his policies make sense and will not have a negative economic impact to Canada.

People here are open to change, they just don't want the NDP.

[schocker]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
The "vote compass" gave me Conservative by a mile, so it seems reasonably accurate at least for me.
Me too. I always check the compass.

[LOLzilla]

I'll be voting for whatever party that prevents a majority from happening.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Toma


ABSOLUTELY BULLSHIT.

That is a dogmatic belief, plain and simple.

Qualify that stance, demonstrate it to be untrue. You haven't once. And that, is a symbol of YOUR dogmatic belief. Plain and simple.

Believe what you want but stop the pot/kettle argument style, you're not different from what you accuse everyone else of.

EDIT - I'm still thoroughly confused as to how not believing Mulcair, not trusting the qualification of Trudeau and not supporting Harper but still looking to a Conservative MINORITY can be confused with being a dogmatic lemming. Do you even have an understanding of what an objective stance is? No one has seen that you do in the way you deride people for not agreeing with you.

[Cos]

.

[Toma]

Originally posted by ickyflex
Gave me conservative as well. I wish Toma ran for NDP. He'd make sure they lose by a landslide.

That attitude is embarrassing. Want to sway people to vote for the NDP, show me a plan that makes any of his policies make sense and will not have a negative economic impact to Canada.

People here are open to change, they just don't want the NDP.

Can't sway dogmatic beliefs. They are fixed in emotion, and irratiinal beliefs, and they cannot he easiky swayed. I have no interest, besides human nature.

Harper is a bad person imo, he has done bad things to this country. Curious if the people that support him are just bad people, confused, uninformed, etc.

[Toma]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Qualify that stance, demonstrate it to be untrue. You haven't once. And that, is a symbol of YOUR dogmatic belief. Plain and simple.

u.

Impossible. You hold an irrational belief. Like if you claimed that there is a God, and he's a blue smurf.... I cant actually PROVE that he doesn't exist.

I don't care what you THINK anyone else is like. We KNOW what Harper is like, and irs an epic failure.

When something fails, you simply try something different, not more.of the same, hoping for different result.

NDP or Green is a simple case of completely different, and never been tried on a national scale. They have massive incentive to do a good job.

Harper dont give a fuck, because he knows rational people split the vote, and and his official policy is "more of the same"....and the irrational will vote for him. simple numhers game.

And he had to hire a foreign loonie toon to help him win this time, that brought the world hate, iltolerance and bullshit, like that whole children overboard fiasco.

scum.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Toma


Impossible. You hold an irrational belief. Like if you claimed that there is a God, and he's a blue smurf.... I cant actually PROVE that he doesn't exist.

I don't care what you THINK anyone else is like. We KNOW what Harper is like, and irs an epic failure.

When something fails, you simply try something different, not more.of the same, hoping for different result.

NDP or Green is a simple case of completely different, and never been tried on a national scale. They have massive incentive to do a good job.

Harper dont give a fuck, because he knows rational people split the vote, and and his official policy is "more of the same"....and the irrational will vote for him. simple numhers game.

And he had to hire a foreign loonie toon to help him win this time, that brought the world hate, iltolerance and bullshit, like that whole children overboard fiasco.

scum.

Coming from a guy who can't even prove his claim that "if you spend an extra 16 billion dollars, and don't tax people any more to pay for it that somehow everything will work out fine", that's rich.

Please just let us know how Mulcair is going to pay for all of his promises and we will all move onto another subject.

Just running into a room yelling NOPPPPE then running away with your hands flailing over your head doesn't hold much water in a rational argument, you know the thing you accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you of not being able to have.

The only incentive the NDP has to do a good job is to have more time to rob the taxpayers.

Honestly i have a hard time believing that you can manage to put your pants on in the morning :nut:

[Nitro5]

As for Canada being the only G7 country in recession, just curious how much quantitative easing have the other countries spent so they can say they aren't?

For someone that complains about deficit, Toma really seems to be pushing for more sending.

About right for a NDP supporter :poosie:

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Cos
Works for me and it isn't NDP by a good margin. Actually goes Liberal -> Green for me. haha
Haha I got the same thing. Although all 4 parties were within 2% of each other... I guess I'm the definition of dead center.

Only issue I strongly disagree with ALL parties on seems to be the two Native questions where I think we need to do less for them and give them less. Good thing all the parties just lie on those questions anyway. :rofl:

[kenny]

Originally posted by Toma
When something fails, you simply try something different, not more.of the same, hoping for different result.

NDP or Green is a simple case of completely different, and never been tried on a national scale. They have massive incentive to do a good job.


I guess what some people are saying is that the NDP and Green party haven't proven that they are actually different. They don't need to be voted in to prove they are different, they can lay out their plan for the country for everyone to see and decide but they have chosen not to and time is running out for them. In fact the NDP have shown they are pretty much the same when it comes to failures with the whole expense scandal going on and refusing to pay back improper expense claims.

The NDP are riding a wave of harper hate and PC party hate in Alberta to get into power, not so much their own platform.

[Cos]

.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Toma
Impossible. You hold an irrational belief.

So determining, from his own campaign points, that Mulcair cannot fund his promises and come out with a balanced budget (let alone a surplus) is an irrational belief? Explain how that is irrational, to do that you have to actually respond to the question instead of hiding behind veiled insults.

Get the facts out, show undisputed math that it will work, change my mind. Stop being so irrational in responding to everyone who doesn't agree with you.

That, or end the conversation.



Originally posted by kenny
I guess what some people are saying is that the NDP and Green party haven't proven that they are actually different. They don't need to be voted in to prove they are different, they can lay out their plan for the country for everyone to see and decide but they have chosen not to and time is running out for them. In fact the NDP have shown they are pretty much the same when it comes to failures with the whole expense scandal going on and refusing to pay back improper expense claims.


Nope, it's irrational to believe something different based on an objective view of every small scale representation of NDP power in recent history. Dogmatic even. To hell with proven results (failures). :nut: Somehow, in Toma's brain, it's impossible to not want the NDP it power without being a raging hard-on Harper fanatic. Who's the irrational one???

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Toma
Harper is a bad person imo, he has done bad things to this country. Curious if the people that support him are just bad people, confused, uninformed, etc.

Definitely uninformed.

However it is up to Mulcair and Trudeau to inform us as to why they are better.

They have failed to do so thus far. The ball is in THEIR court.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by sputnik
However it is up to Mulcair and Trudeau to inform us as to why they are better.

They have failed to do so thus far. The ball is in THEIR court.

Exactly. And given the constant raging and insulting the ball is in YOUR court Toma. Start qualifying why everyone is stupid and irrational or stop. Do that by demonstrating how Mulcair will be better. Saying "you've never tried them Federally so you don't know but you do know about Harper" isn't a valid position. I've never tried heroin, I still know I shouldn't.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by Cos

Works for me and it isn't NDP by a good margin. Actually goes Liberal -> Green for me. haha

Yeah, more of a personal statement of discontent towards CBC for me. If it works for others and helps them out, go for it.

I did it myself and obviously I'm a right wing nut :nut: :rofl:

[JRSC00LUDE]

Toma essentially what I'm saying is this. Tell us the bad choices Harper has made and show us where Mulcair or Trudeau are going to make it better. For example, Bill C63. Is Mulcair going to repeal it? Foreign policy desicions you disagree with, does Mulcair have a plan to set them right?

Demonstrate why he's better. How he'll set things right. Being different isn't a good enough reason. Unless you're completely irrational.

[adamc]

Is bill c63 the one where we all get new Mercs?

[Toma]

Originally posted by Nitro5
As for Canada being the only G7 country in recession, just curious how much quantitative easing have the other countries spent so they can say they aren't?

For someone that complains about deficit, Toma really seems to be pushing for more sending.

About right for a NDP supporter :poosie:

It's VERY simple.

Spend in a recession, ESPECIALLY on what needs to be done, and at all time low interest.

Put money away during a boom, pay off debt.

Harper accomplished the opposite.

Pissed it away, tax breaks to wealthy corporations etc, WHILE cutting our services and neglected our education, health etc, take ou tnew debt.... DURING A BOOM, and had nothing to show for it, but a neglected country.

Recession comes, he pays off various department heads to not spend the money promised on things like Veterans, raided the contingency fund, sold off GM etc.

Idiot.

But he isnt. It's deliberate, which makes him a crook.

[Nitro5]

So if they had come out with another deficit you would have been praising them this time?

In your own words, 'BULLSHIT'

No matter the actions of the current government you would find fault, but it's everyone else that hold irrational beliefs. :nut:

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Cos


To be fair, we shouldn't have a 2B surplus in an economy like this. They should be spending it and saving it when times were good. Not the other way around.

As I posted in another thread, a $1bil or so surplus is practically a rounding error with how large our country is :dunno:

They had to post a surplus, or else everyone would have been "ermhagerd, cons spending us into oblivion".

I do agree, I'd rather have seen them spend the $2bil and another $bil on the country, but at the same time, if we are looking at the 2014-2015 fiscal year, shit didn't get really bad until the beginning of December. They were supposed to spend $2+bil in 3 months before fiscal year end? At the drop of the hat? When as far as they knew oil was going to hit $30/barrel? This surplus could have been wiped out pretty easily.

That would have pissed off any fiscal conservative!

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Demonstrate why he's better. How he'll set things right. Being different isn't a good enough reason. Unless you're completely irrational.

If you look at regime changes in the past (be that government or in the office), being different is enough. Doesn't matter if policies make sense.

Sad but true.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Toma

Spend in a recession, ESPECIALLY on what needs to be done, and at all time low interest.

Put money away during a boom, pay off debt.

Harper accomplished the opposite.

Seriously?! Are you off your meds?

Harper added $55 BILLION to the deficit in 2009 to fund infrastructure projects during one of the worst recessions (TSX around 8000 points) since the 30s. Chances are your own posts on Beyond during that time probably even used the word "depression".

As the economy slowly improved he continued to shrink the deficit to the point where we find ourselves today (TSX between 13000-14000 points).

Let me know when you think that the Canadian economy is in a boom time and you can watch him save money and continue to cut the GST for all Canadians like he did when the TSX was at all time highs in 2006 and 2008.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Cos
https://votecompass.cbc.ca/

I'd vote almost solely based on this, as it tells you how your values align with party platform. I scored right in the middle of both axes. Fuck all the parties, I say, and let anarchy rule.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Xtrema


If you look at regime changes in the past (be that government or in the office), being different is enough. Doesn't matter if policies make sense.

Sad but true.

Is it? If you ask some, the last change of regime destroyed the Country so what's to say the next change will better it?

It's almost entirely unanimous among posters that change is needed but no one is able to show where these improvements will come from regarding Mulcair or Trudeau. Are they going to right these egregious wrongs (some of which legitimately could be)? Better the economy? Improve the status quo?

I only continue on with this because I want someone to clearly enunciate how blindly following a new regime based on little more than "errrr Harper is evil derp" is any less "dogmatic" than sticking with the devil you know and hoping for moderation via a minority. I would think that the opposition, if they're so much better and wiser, can block things they disagree with under a minority government and actually PROVE they're better so next time there won't be a question. They were unable to do so for two terms previous to the majority, that's the only reason the Conservatives got one last time. :dunno:

[Feruk]

Originally posted by sputnik
Harper added $55 BILLION to the deficit in 2009 to fund infrastructure projects during one of the worst recessions (TSX around 8000 points) since the 30s. Chances are your own posts on Beyond during that time probably even used the word "depression".

As the economy slowly improved he continued to shrink the deficit to the point where we find ourselves today (TSX between 13000-14000 points).

Let me know when you think that the Canadian economy is in a boom time and you can watch him save money and continue to cut the GST for all Canadians like he did when the TSX was at all time highs in 2006 and 2008.
Since 2007 we've had the bust, boom years, and now a slowing economy (only Alberta/Sask are really in bust year). He borrowed during the bust, and he continued to borrow during the boom! Instead of repaying the money he borrowed, he gave us TAX CUTS during the boom. No goal of ever tackling debt.

I've heard the financial talking heads spouting about how debt is not a problem at these low interest rates. Correct, but what do these fucktards think will happen when rates rise? It's not like we're saving money to pay off debt now... If we borrow at these rates, when they rise we will pay more in interest and therefore have less ability to pay that debt off. Economics 101. Those tax cuts could've likely paid off most of our debt.

Borrowing money to invest when rates are low... smart.

Borrowing money to spend when rates are low... fucking stupid! Unfortunately, Harper fails economics 101. Then again so do a lot of house buyers.

[ae92gts]

Originally posted by Feruk
Hoping for Liberal minority, which is strange considering I've only ever voted Conservative... Can't this time though.

:werd: This exactly

[Toma]

JRScoolude....

See, differenc in ideology. Everyone agrees on change, but Harper has demonstrated malice.

I dont care about what iffs at that point, malicious scumbag has to go.

I really started noticing it with the giant omnibus bills with good sounding names. Hypocrite, and wilfull negligence of rights and freedoms. Then his support of bombs, and Ukraine. Then hiding in a closet.

He is an authoritarian coward. Little man syndrome with power. the most dangerous kind of human.

At this point, has nothing to do with policy anymore. Its just bonus material that his has been a demonstratable failure.

ANYONE but Harper.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Toma
JRScoolude....

See, differenc in ideology. Everyone agrees on change, but Harper has demonstrated malice.

I dont care about what iffs at that point, malicious scumbag has to go.

I really started noticing it with the giant omnibus bills with good sounding names. Hypocrite, and wilfull negligence of rights and freedoms. Then his support of bombs, and Ukraine. Then hiding in a closet.

He is an authoritarian coward. Little man syndrome with power. the most dangerous kind of human.

At this point, has nothing to do with policy anymore. Its just bonus material that his has been a demonstratable failure.

ANYONE but Harper.


At least that says why, thank you. :)

I don't disagree on terrible foreign policy or on the rights/freedoms comments. To me though, I don't agree with the ANYONE but Harper mindset. That's NOT because I support him, that's because I don't support the others. I feel that limiting his ability to continue unfettered is the best position for long term stability.

Feruk has a point that a Liberal minority wouldn't be the end of the world either, and Trudeau may make a better "face" to the world (if his inexperience doesn't have real leaders laughing at him), but I still think it would be less effective than a Con. minority. There is a far higher chance of the NDP and Libs. working together to block suspect things from the Cons. in the future than the Cons and NDP working together to do the same to the Libs., don't you think?

Slowly healing a wound is better than tearing out the sutures and running down the hallway claiming everything is better now.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Feruk


Borrowing money to spend when rates are low... fucking stupid! Unfortunately, Harper fails economics 101. Then again so do a lot of house buyers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_public_debt

Debt by % GPD seems ok right now, in fact, before the crash in 2008 it was at the lowest its been in a while. So spend money during recession/crash, check.

Then things start getting back to normal in 2014 (don't kid yourself, the world economy has been on shaky ground even to this day) and then oil shits the bed at the end of 2014.

What would you have liked to have seen done differently? Canada as a whole suffered throughout the 90's from austerity type measures, the Conservatives have pushed through some large infrastructure projects throughout the country that have been important, among other things.

I'm not saying they have/haven't done an ok job, just what would you like to have seen done differently?

[suntan]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Canada as a whole suffered throughout the 90's from austerity type measures Canada had little choice. Debt was very expensive back then. Servicing costs were very high.

Same thing in Alberta. Klein had little choice in the matter. Either pay off the debt or credit rating goes in toilet.

The Chretien Liberals did what they had to do.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by suntan
Canada had little choice. Debt was very expensive back then. Servicing costs were very high.

Same thing in Alberta. Klein had little choice in the matter. Either pay off the debt or credit rating goes in toilet.

The Chretien Liberals did what they had to do.

I'm not arguing for or against, just making sure that the facts are clear.

One poster said "they racked up debt", I am pointing out that, overall, they really didn't (with the current numbers I have presented, I have no idea what the 2014 numbers show).

Interest rates aren't going to spike 5+% in a couple months as it would destroy the world economy, so I think cheap debt is here to stay for a while (lets say next 5 years). As long as debt/gdp ratio is maintained in a healthy manner, I don't think the gov is too crazy

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by adamc
Is bill c63 the one where we all get new Mercs?

Brain slip, I am on a car forum after all! I'd support that party in a second! :rofl::rofl:

[sputnik]

Toma.

TOMA

Are you listening?

Please tell us why Mulcair will do a better job.

DO NOT use the terms "Harper", "Conservative", "CPC" or "PM" in your reply.

We ALL know you hate Stephen Harper. What you haven't told us is why you love Tom Mulcair.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_public_debt

Debt by % GPD seems ok right now, in fact, before the crash in 2008 it was at the lowest its been in a while. So spend money during recession/crash, check.

If you're gonna say our ratio of debt to GDP is good, you have to explain how any level of debt is good for Canada. I'd love to hear that explanation rather than "we aren't THAT bad." Did you know we pay $26 BILLION/year on interest on debt? That money could be spent on so many other things. What a disgrace.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
Then things start getting back to normal in 2014 (don't kid yourself, the world economy has been on shaky ground even to this day) and then oil shits the bed at the end of 2014.

Our economy's been in very good shape since 2010. Stock market's been on a tear. Housing market's been on a tear. There is nothing shaky about double-digit gains year after year. We've been spammed with news about a "slow recovery", but it wasn't slow or steady at all.

If not for Harper tax cuts, we would've posted surplus after surplus.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
What would you have liked to have seen done differently? Canada as a whole suffered throughout the 90's from austerity type measures, the Conservatives have pushed through some large infrastructure projects throughout the country that have been important, among other things.

I'm not saying they have/haven't done an ok job, just what would you like to have seen done differently?

1) No GST cut
2) None of this income splitting nonsense or other stupid little tax benefits for small group of people
3) No corporate or other tax cuts until debt is paid off

Basically, I think it's stupid to cut taxes (and reduce income) in a boom when you still owe money. The ONLY tax cut I completely support is TFSA, and the reason I support it is it potentially takes liability off Canada later.

[suntan]

Meh. Revenue for the 2013-2014 fiscal year was $272 BILLION.

GST is so regressive. Maybe make the income tax system actually progressive.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Is it? If you ask some, the last change of regime destroyed the Country so what's to say the next change will better it?

Not saying we will be better, just saying being different sometimes is enough to win.

GST brought down Mulroney and gave us a decade of Liberals just because we want to punish the government for something we didn't agree.

Liberal's Sponsorship scandal brought them down and gave us a decade plus of Conservatives.

Alberta PC got screwed by tax hikes and give way to NDP.

You don't have to be better, just have to be different and wait the current government to fall on its face.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Feruk


Did you know we pay $26 BILLION/year on interest on debt? That money could be spent on so many other things. What a disgrace.


That is simply your opinion. Most 1st world governments run significantly higher. $26bil/year doesn't mean much to me, as its just a number with no reference point (I guess $0 would be a reference point, but a meaningless one as the world economy runs on debt).


Originally posted by Feruk
[B]
Our economy's been in very good shape since 2010. Stock market's been on a tear. Housing market's been on a tear.


Stock market being on a tear and housing market being on a tear != an economy in good shape. They are factors that indicate that, but at the end of the day, cheap credit, not necessarily strong/sound fundamentals are what have pushed those things up. The economy in Ontario and Quebec, with 2/3's the population of Canada, has been pretty shit. :dunno: Sure, BC, AB, SK have been doing ok, but that is less than a 1/3 of the Canadian population. Just like Toronto and Vancouver real estate doing well does not necessarily reflect an overall healthy economy.

I'm not saying we haven't done well. I am saying that fiscal policy doesn't just flip flop about because oil/real estate all of a sudden does well for a couple years even though the rest of the country is floundering.


Originally posted by Feruk
[B]
1) No GST cut
2) None of this income splitting nonsense or other stupid little tax benefits for small group of people
3) No corporate or other tax cuts until debt is paid off

Basically, I think it's stupid to cut taxes (and reduce income) in a boom when you still owe money. The ONLY tax cut I completely support is TFSA, and the reason I support it is it potentially takes liability off Canada later.

I agree that the 3 things you listed are indeed BS, and I don't like them either.

But going back to some of your other comments, so basically, you want the gov to have no debt? Or what? This isn't a zero sum game, borrowing money and rolling it over is a legitimate strategy when interest rates are at record lows. Additionally, as previously mentioned, because interest rates were so high in the 90's, Canada suffered a (wise) decision to NOT borrow money out the wazoo. That lack of investment needs to be made up somehow.

HOPEFULLY, we can manage the debt so when interest rates do rise, we aren't left holding the bag. I understand where you are coming from, but you are being so extreme with your opinions that nobody will meet your expectations.

[Toma]

Originally posted by sputnik
Toma.

TOMA

Are you listening?

Please tell us why Mulcair will do a better job.

DO NOT use the terms "Harper", "Conservative", "CPC" or "PM" in your reply.

We ALL know you hate Stephen Harper. What you haven't told us is why you love Tom Mulcair.

Ive been very clear. I could do a better job, so anyone else can as well.

But it is far beyond the policy failures. Its his malice and yearning for control and power.

I honestly wouldn't put a false lag type event past any conservative. They already hired a foreing policy advisor that masterminded the children overboard affair..... nothing is too low for them imo.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Xtrema
snip

Got ya, yes agreed.


Well the NDP have now laid out their master plan for balancing the budget with a couple of omissions (convenient?):

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-ndp-fiscal-plan-1.3230097


he NDP's brochure describing the plan does not include a carbon tax or a cap-and-trade system to deal with carbon emissions. However, party officials say that "we just haven't announced everything yet," adding that any cap-and-trade scheme to be announced later would be "revenue neutral" and would therefore not change the overall numbers

Hmmmmm.......


The party will release a fully costed campaign platform sometime in early October.

Smoke and mirrors?


I also like how they've admitted they can't meet something that they've been hammering the Cons. for not being able to do. lol:


The New Democrats conceded, however, that in order to balance the books an NDP government would not able to achieve its pledge to commit 0.7 per cent of Canada's GDP on development aid within the first four years of being in power — a figure requested by the United Nations for all developed economies.

The NDP, which has been highly critical of the Conservatives' unwillingness to meet the goal and consistently raised the issue in question period, insisted on Wednesday that the target was always a multi-year process.

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by Toma


Ive been very clear. I could do a better job, so anyone else can as well.

But it is far beyond the policy failures. Its his malice and yearning for control and power.

I honestly wouldn't put a false lag type event past any conservative. They already hired a foreing policy advisor that masterminded the children overboard affair..... nothing is too low for them imo.

Honestly you are just simply pathetic. How is anyone supposed to take any credit into the NDP when you run your mouth off like an idiot. Many times I've legitimately asked you for your thoughts on how the NDP policy and government is good. If your sole basis for NDP is because it isn't the conservatives than you are more delusional than you paint everyone else. I actually had a care for what someone who is so pro NDP had to say about policy and paint the picture clear that maybe everyone is missing. Instead you just go off tangent and attack people.

I invite anyone to paint the picture because Toma has not a single clue how to. Simply pathetic.

By the way, most people in this thread have expressed interest in all the parties platforms and have addressed points against each platform on all three parties. So instead of attacking people because they are voting conservative why don't you backup the NDP and what their policy will do to make Canada a better country

[suntan]

This is a car forum, everybody should be voting NDP so that they can bring back the Bricklin.

[Toma]

Originally posted by ickyflex

bla bkah blahy

It doesn't matter one bit.

Even a monkey can do a better job by accident, because Harper is fucking shit up on purpose.

Willful disregard for our constitution, our morals, tremendous hypocrisy, and small man wanna be dictator.

That his policies fucked up Canada, and sunk our economy during the 2009 to 2014 economic and commodities boom is just icing.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by ickyflex
By the way, most people in this thread have expressed interest in all the parties platforms and have addressed points against each platform on all three parties. So instead of attacking people because they are voting conservative why don't you backup the NDP and what their policy will do to make Canada a better country

It doesn't matter.

Each party's hardcore will vote their own party without platform.

People who actually analyze what they have to say are swing votes.


IMHO,

People who swing from Cons will most likely land in Liberal camp.
People who swing from Liberal will equally lands in Cons and NDP camp.
People who swing from NDP will most likely land in Liberal camp. Muclair's game is to appear far right of Liberal to prevent that to happen.

Here's what I predict to happen:

Liberal will win a minority government taking most of Ontario surrounding GTA and possible BC.

NDP will own Quebec and remain as opposition.

Cons will own the prairies again and return to territory Reform once had.

Either NDP/Cons can be opposition depending if Cons can win enough in Ontario.

OR

If NDP seats got taken by Bloc, NDP will just disappear from the political landscape again. Have no idea how strong is Bloc the time around.

OR Nightmare scenario:

Cons and Liberal vote split and NDP run up in the middle how we got Notley.

[Toma]

Lol....

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by Feruk

Since 2007 we've had the bust, boom years, and now a slowing economy (only Alberta/Sask are really in bust year). He borrowed during the bust, and he continued to borrow during the boom! Instead of repaying the money he borrowed, he gave us TAX CUTS during the boom. No goal of ever tackling debt.

I've heard the financial talking heads spouting about how debt is not a problem at these low interest rates. Correct, but what do these fucktards think will happen when rates rise? It's not like we're saving money to pay off debt now... If we borrow at these rates, when they rise we will pay more in interest and therefore have less ability to pay that debt off. Economics 101. Those tax cuts could've likely paid off most of our debt.

Borrowing money to invest when rates are low... smart.

Borrowing money to spend when rates are low... fucking stupid! Unfortunately, Harper fails economics 101. Then again so do a lot of house buyers.

NDP logic seems about the same.

I had a Dipper tell me recently that "debt doesn't matter."

I asked if he lived by that philosophy with his own finances.

I got no response.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[relyt92]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
If Beyond is any indication, we are looking at a conservative majority... Or at least a conservative minority with a Liberal opposition. Either is Ok for me. Beyond definitely isn't a proper showing of the average population though, Beyond is generally fairly conservative and well off compared to average.

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by Toma


It doesn't matter one bit.

Even a monkey can do a better job by accident, because Harper is fucking shit up on purpose.

Willful disregard for our constitution, our morals, tremendous hypocrisy, and small man wanna be dictator.

That his policies fucked up Canada, and sunk our economy during the 2009 to 2014 economic and commodities boom is just icing.

I honestly feel bad for you. Can we setup a gofundme for psychiatric treatment for Toma? I honestly think you need to see a doctor. I'm not even trying to be mean, unless you are completely different in real life I suggest for the sake of everyone in your life to seek help. Politics aside to act like this on a consistent basis is unhealthy, last thing I want to see if Toma on the news.

[95EagleAWD]

I don't mind most of Harper's policies for the economy and shit, it's all the other bullshit that comes along with him.... the C-51 crap, etc...

We'll see when it comes time to vote.

[Toma]

Originally posted by ickyflex


I honestly feel bad for you. Can we setup a gofundme for psychiatric treatment for Toma? I honestly think you need to see a doctor. I'm not even trying to be mean, unless you are completely different in real life I suggest for the sake of everyone in your life to seek help. Politics aside to act like this on a consistent basis is unhealthy, last thing I want to see if Toma on the news.

Sure, I'll take the money!! :poosie:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
I don't mind most of Harper's policies for the economy and shit, it's all the other bullshit that comes along with him.... the C-51 crap, etc...

We'll see when it comes time to vote.
I'm in this camp. Few things Harper has done I don't like, but nowhere near enough to have me vote for either one of the other muppets.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I still find it hilarious that the worst scandal they have had is trying to force a douchebag senator to pay back less than 100K in expenses and be accountable to tax payers, lol.

NDP and Liberal both have billion dollar scandals on the other hand

That's just it. The word Dictator and Fascist have been thrown around by this forums resident punchline, but that's easily dismissed by that individuals clear mental instability.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

Stock market being on a tear and housing market being on a tear != an economy in good shape. ... Just like Toronto and Vancouver real estate doing well does not necessarily reflect an overall healthy economy.

I'm not saying we haven't done well. I am saying that fiscal policy doesn't just flip flop about because oil/real estate all of a sudden does well for a couple years even though the rest of the country is floundering.
You've gotta define a boom somehow rather than just listening to media fear mongers. Even ignoring the stock market and real estate market, we saw unemployment drop, and have been out of recession for the last 4 years. By all measurable standards, the years since 2010 have been great.


Originally posted by HiTempguy1
But going back to some of your other comments, so basically, you want the gov to have no debt? Or what? This isn't a zero sum game, borrowing money and rolling it over is a legitimate strategy when interest rates are at record lows.
...
HOPEFULLY, we can manage the debt so when interest rates do rise, we aren't left holding the bag. I understand where you are coming from, but you are being so extreme with your opinions that nobody will meet your expectations.
I see no problem with government borrowing money, but I think it has to be done with a timetable for repayment. Borrow for 3 years of downturn, repay full amount in the next say 5 years of growth. Public money should not be spent paying interest on debt. I realize and agree with you that this sounds like a "radical" idea in today's world, which I find sad.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
If Beyond is any indication, we are looking at a conservative majority... Or at least a conservative minority with a Liberal opposition. Either is Ok for me.

Beyond is comprised of people who have gotten ahead through their own hard work and sacrifice.

The rest of Canada is mostly people who have no desire to work hard, think they are entitled to things that others have and have nothing to lose by higher taxation and losing their jobs. It's a sad shift in the way people think and it's probably only going to get worse as time progresses.

The way of thinking should be "That person has more than me, what can I do to get to the same place?". Instead we have "They have more than me, they don't need it all and they NEED to give me some".

[sabad66]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I still find it hilarious that the worst scandal they have had is trying to force a douchebag senator to pay back less than 100K in expenses and be accountable to tax payers, lol.

NDP and Liberal both have billion dollar scandals on the other hand
i am not a con supporter but i wholeheartedly agree with this. There are way bigger fish to fry than this stupid 90k blunder. Not only that, but think of all the time and money wasted on talking about it/court costs/audits/etc. What a shame.