NAS help! WTF do I need?!?

[ZMan2k2]

Okay, so I have an Asus RT-N66u router, and I have a WD Elements USB 3.0 HDD attached. Recently, it's decided that the HDD will not mount to the USB ports, and my data is no longer available. To top it off, when I was trying to fix it, I deleted all the data on the HDD, so I have to start from scratch. What I had on the HDD was FLAC files to stream to my receiver, and movies to stream to my XBoxOne with Media Player.

The USB ports seem to have become useless on the router, so, I'm thinking a NAS attached to the ethernet ports on the router would work better. I need at least 4TB of storage, but I'm not sure if I need backup. Would backup be recommended, and how would I accomplish this? I'm not up on the latest when it comes to NAS storage, RAID, and such, so I'm not sure what to do. Backup might be smart, so I don't delete my entire media collection again.

I was thinking this bay http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX51129
and these HDD's
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX47915

Would that provide me with storage and backup of all my data?

Or would I just go with this as a simple storage solution?
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX49062

[schocker]

I would go for a qnap or synology unit but the reds are the hard drives I would use.
You could just buy 2x 4tb hard drives and raid them so you have 100% redundancy.

Either brand would do what you are looking for, you would just have to set up the streaming service in the web interface. Synology has better apps though. I have a 2 bay synology (music/misc.) and 4 bay qnap (movies/tv) and am happy with both.

For size it depends how much you want to store. 4tb would probably last a while depending on your needs. Once you get to 4 hdd you can do a hybrid setup so I have 4x 5tb but instead of 10tb I have 15tb storage.

[Asian_defender]

QNAP or Synology are the way to go. I have a Synology myself.
Best advice I can give to you is to spend more money initially and get more bays. You'll thank yourself later. I started out with a 2 bay but quickly moved to an 8 bay (although excessive for home use).

The Synology hybrid RAID provides an easy RAID for anyone who doesn't know/care about RAID but want some protection. It's like a modified RAID 6.
You'll be capped at 4TB of storage on those HDD's on a 2 bay NAS with RAID. Assuming you want RAID that is

If you're on a tight budget I'd do something more like this
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX49778

[schocker]

^^^Yeah, I have the old version of that (213J) and it worked great for what I needed but I ran out of room so bought the 4bay qnap. Wish I would have bought the 4bay to begin with knowing I would need more than 3tb raid 1 storage.

[ZMan2k2]

What would the Qnap or Synology NAS devices get me over the WD one I linked?

I don't download my media, I am copying my movies from bluray, and putting the hard copies in storage. My music is on a small 250Gb HDD, that I would transfer over. All I would use this for is storage and streaming, no offline downloading.

[schocker]

Better performance, better interface, better apps. Lots of extra addon features too probably not supported by the WD one for only a bit more money.

This isn't about download, I am just transferring stuff from my main HDD currently onto my nases (sp?). Soon I will setup sickbeard and couch potato though and give that a try.

[ZMan2k2]

Okay, that's reason enough. What about the NAS that Asian Defender posted? Sounds like it would do what I need it to?

[schocker]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
Okay, that's reason enough. What about the NAS that Asian Defender posted? Sounds like it would do what I need it to?
Yeah, that one or the two bay qnap if you want a 2 bay. You can visit their websites and get a feel for the interface as each has a demo to log into. Maybe check out some reviews also and compare specs. I am guessing both would be ARM chips. Check googleplay/app store and check out the apps too to see what is available. Synology for example has better video apps so it organizes your videos similar to Kodi and you can browse on the phone and play on xbox/chromecast etc. depending on codecs (I use kodi on a amazon fire tv now instead and it just connects to my nas)

[ZMan2k2]

Interesting. I also thought of something else. My HDD works on the computer, so is there a way to convert USB 3.0 to an ethernet connection?

[revelations]

There is, but its another thing to potentially go bad down the road .....

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Gigabit-Ethernet-Network-Adapter/dp/B0095EFXMC

[ZMan2k2]

Thanks, I guess I'll pass. Okay, so deciding on what to do is the main thing. Do I need RAID? Might be nice, but not necessary. How much do I want to spend? That's the biggie. Have to decide on a budget before I jump into this. Thanks for all the answers.

Okay, I'm thinking the Synology NAS. Can I run it with one 4TB drive, until I can save up for a second drive? I'm on disability, and money is something that is NOT in abundance, so I'm trying to do this on a tight budget.

[revelations]

Back this up to another external drive - or better yet, Amazon Glacier which these NAS devices support.

[ZMan2k2]

Amazon Glacier doesn't sound budget friendly, as I'd upload a couple movies at a time, as I convert them. So I think that's out.

Can I run one drive in a NAS, until I can afford another drive?

[blairtruck]

i just bought a Nas 2 weeks ago.
i got the qnap ts-251 2 bay drive.
what i like the most about it is it has Kodi built in and a HDMI out so i just have it plugged into my network behind the TV and run is as my media player now. I had a Mini-x H8 media player before this and this qnap is way better.

so you could put all your movies on the Nas and stream straight from it to the Tv if your home is wired up.
it was $705 tax in for the Nas and two 3tb reds

also there is an H version of the ts-251 which comes with 4gb ram instead of the 1 with the regular version. 100 upsell. but i just bought 8gb ram and upgraded myself. so double the ram of the 4 for only $60

i also ran my qnap for a day with only 1 drive as the other was showing an error soon as i plugged it in. and i swapped it out the next day.

[revelations]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
Amazon Glacier doesn't sound budget friendly, as I'd upload a couple movies at a time, as I convert them.

Glacier is extremely well suited for online backups that you dont need to retrieve on a regular basis.

Data sending and cold storage costs (500gb eg mine) ends up being 1-2$ a month.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
Can I run one drive in a NAS, until I can afford another drive?


Why don't you run it in a simple USB enclosure until you can afford the whole system.

End of the day, you just have to calculate if the lost of data is worth the expense.

You can play with Synology calculator.

https://www.synology.com/en-global/support/RAID_calculator

I personally will not run any system without RAID protection. On top of that I also do nightly backup to another NAS for human fuck ups.


Originally posted by revelations


Glacier is extremely well suited for online backups that you dont need to retrieve on a regular basis.

Data sending and cold storage costs (500gb eg mine) ends up being 1-2$ a month.

It's cheap going in and staying there but retrieval of each TB stored on Glacier is ~$90 and hopefully you have unlimited plan from your ISP.

But if you are paranoid, Glacier is a good 3rd copy location.

[ZMan2k2]

Okay, so reading reviews and such, im thinking the Qnap TS-251 and when I can afford it, 2 6TB WD Red drives. Upgrade the RAM for $50 and I'm set. What do you all think? The video transcoding has me interested. I've always had problems playing raw .mkv files on the XBOXONE, but .mp4 works great. Would this mean I can get this NAS to convert for me on the fly?

[schocker]

You can monitor the cpu/ram via the qnap apps. I have the 451, but I haven't been transcoding and the ram has been OK for me, so I haven't upgraded it yet. I have never transcoded with it though.

[ZMan2k2]

Well, I have an old laptop that I've been using for transcoding from .mkv to .mp4 using Handbrake. But I've only got 4Gig of RAM and 1Gig on the motherboard video card. 2 Movies takes 8 hours. And my wife is worried I'm gonna burn out the laptop. If I have to go through 200 movies again, I just might. So the RAM upgrade seemed sensible.

What I can't find out, is what audio codecs the TS-251 can convert? I'd put the thing in my entertainment unit, but it's too tall, and won't fit, so it's gotta go in the office, and stream over ethernet to the XBoxOne. But Media Player on XBO is pretty specific on what codecs it supports. Do you think you could look that up for me, next time you're connected to your NAS? I'm interested in either a_aac or wave formats.

[Asian_defender]

Since you're on a budget, consider the daily deal from Memory Express.
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX46058

[ZMan2k2]

I don't have the money yet. I'm waiting for my knee injection cheque to come back from the insurance company. That's why I'm doing my research now. That's why I'm asking about the transcoding of the TS -251 and if it'll play lossless, or if I have to go with DD.

[blairtruck]

I'm not sure what transcoding means. But i use it to play 15gb 1080 mkv. I have hdmi running into receiver thou and then tv. So receiver does the audio work. And not a problem playing bigger mkv

[ZMan2k2]

Originally posted by blairtruck
I'm not sure what transcoding means. But i use it to play 15gb 1080 mkv. I have hdmi running into receiver thou and then tv. So receiver does the audio work. And not a problem playing bigger mkv

Thanks, that actually helps.

Gonna check the measurements again, and see if I can get it in the entertainment unit. If so, rip move to NAS, done.

*edit* Okay, it'll fit in the entertainment unit. Right beside the Telus box. So, HDMI to the receiver, and I have lossless audio. But how do I control what file I want to watch? Do I still use media player, and connect the NAS to my XBO with HDMI? Or, connect it via ethernet to the switch, and HDMI for audio?

*another edit* Okay, reading other threads here, I found that I can stream using a MiniX box. MemEx has the NEO X8, so NAS in the office, connected to the router, and NEO X8 running XBMC doing the native playing of .mkv files for me, I'm good. Don't need the transcoding in the QNAP, so can go for the cheaper Synology NAS. That way I get lossless sound and 1080p.

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2


Thanks, that actually helps.

Gonna check the measurements again, and see if I can get it in the entertainment unit. If so, rip move to NAS, done.

*edit* Okay, it'll fit in the entertainment unit. Right beside the Telus box. So, HDMI to the receiver, and I have lossless audio. But how do I control what file I want to watch? Do I still use media player, and connect the NAS to my XBO with HDMI? Or, connect it via ethernet to the switch, and HDMI for audio?

*another edit* Okay, reading other threads here, I found that I can stream using a MiniX box. MemEx has the NEO X8, so NAS in the office, connected to the router, and NEO X8 running XBMC doing the native playing of .mkv files for me, I'm good. Don't need the transcoding in the QNAP, so can go for the cheaper Synology NAS. That way I get lossless sound and 1080p.

no i had a minix box and the qnap nas replaces it completely. Put files on Nas Hard drive. point kodi app in the direction of movies and watch them.
basically the ts-251 is a little computer. it has apps. even a surveillance app so if you have IP cameras on the network you can see them also.
you use kodi same as you would with a minix or other media player.

oh yeah plug a keyboard/mouse into nas also so you can navigate your apps.

[ZMan2k2]

Originally posted by blairtruck


no i had a minix box and the qnap nas replaces it completely. Put files on Nas Hard drive. point kodi app in the direction of movies and watch them.
basically the ts-251 is a little computer. it has apps. even a surveillance app so if you have IP cameras on the network you can see them also.
you use kodi same as you would with a minix or other media player.

oh yeah plug a keyboard/mouse into nas also so you can navigate your apps.

Is the keyboard/mouse necessary, or can you use an IR remote with another program, something available on the XBoxOne?

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2


Is the keyboard/mouse necessary, or can you use an IR remote with another program, something available on the XBoxOne?
again i only know what worked for me. i have a remote that came with the mini x that also has a bluetooth dongle that plugs into the USB and that works. no idea of anything else.

here are all the apps for the qnap. maybe find something that works?
https://www.qnap.com/i/en/app_center/

[ZMan2k2]

Actually, I just checked the Logitech Harmony website, and my remote can control the QNAP. Looks like that's the way I'm going.

[ZMan2k2]

Originally posted by blairtruck

again i only know what worked for me. i have a remote that came with the mini x that also has a bluetooth dongle that plugs into the USB and that works. no idea of anything else.

here are all the apps for the qnap. maybe find something that works?
https://www.qnap.com/i/en/app_center/

Thanks for linking me to the available apps. I did some research, and Kodi seems the best choice to play the media that I would store. I can set it for passthrough on the audio, and rip the lossless audio, and let my receiver do the work. I can get subtitles again, metadata for my rips, it just looks like an incredible media player.

What program do you use to rip blu rays? I was going to use MakeMKV.

[v2kai]

A cheap alternative to building a NAS that might be worth mentioning is just a network shared windows storage spaces array. If you've got a machine with 8/8.1 for an OS it should be built in you just need hard drives and cables.

There are minor drawbacks but overall it's actually quite convenient, user friendly and can be quite cheap to implement.

http://betanews.com/2014/01/15/windows-storage-spaces-and-refs-is-it-time-to-ditch-raid-for-good/

http://www.howtogeek.com/109380/how-to-use-windows-8s-storage-spaces-to-mirror-combine-drives/

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows-8/storage-spaces-pools

[ZMan2k2]

That seems pretty complicated for what I want to do. I know I can get the Drobo app for the Qnap NAS, but having drives all over the house, just gets expensive. Having the Qnap in RAID 1, and having 2 6TB drives should give me the options that I need. I just rip the movie, don't watch the extras, never have. So, 20-25GB per movie, and 150 movies equals about 4.25TB. Plenty of space to add additional movies as they come along. And the Qnap lets me add extra drive bays as needed, up to 6. But for what I need, the Qnap will do just fine. It's not cheap, but neither is what those articles are talking about. It mentions it quite a few times in the first article that it's not cheap, and you're dealing with proprietary formats on the HDD's. Lose one, and it's not easy to recover from.

[ZMan2k2]

I know Seagate drives aren't considered to be well thought of here, but I can get a 8TB Seagate at MemEx for the same price as a WD 6TB Red. That would give me years of storage of movies in a 1:1 copy of my Blurays. Should I consider the Seagates, or just stick to the Red's?

*edit*nvm, found an article saying the Seagate's aren't really set up for RAID usage. Too slow a write speed.

[ZMan2k2]

Okay, next question. I can buy one 6TB HDD this month, and one next month, or 2 4TB HDD's now, and run the NAS RAID 0. Then, when I get more money, 2 4TB USB 3.0 drives and back up to those. Opinions?

[Asian_defender]

If your going RAID 0 then I would wait for the 6TB drives, but thats just me

[ZMan2k2]

Thanks. That's the problem with being on disability. You get little to no extra money to play with. Guess it's one 6TB now, and one next month. Really, that's kind of the way I was leaning too. I had all my movies on one portable HDD that I converted with Handbrake, and it took up 3.3TB on the drive. Now I'm planning on 1:1 movies, so I can get lossless audio. More space needed. I still haven't decided on RAID 0 or 1, but the 6TB seems to make more sense.

[ZMan2k2]

I have one final post in this thread.

THANKS!
Thanks to everyone who's pointed me in the right direction. I have a Qnap TS-251 that is running exactly how I want it. It's playing 1080p video and streaming lossless True HD and DTS- HD MA to my receiver. The use of the NAS is easy, setup was challenging, thanks Google, but I have everything running exactly how I want it. I'm ripping 1:1 movies with MakeMKV, and it plays them just fine.

I am a happy individual. I don't know if I have to go RAID 0 or 1 yet, we'll see when I get all my movies back installed on the 6TB WD Red drive, but it's been a great learning experience.

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
I am a happy individual. I don't know if I have to go RAID 0 or 1 yet, .....
Don't go RAID 0!!!

If one drive dies you'll loose everything (unless you plan on backing everything up) and you don't need the extra speed anyway.

[ZMan2k2]

Originally posted by ipeefreely

Don't go RAID 0!!!

If one drive dies you'll loose everything (unless you plan on backing everything up) and you don't need the extra speed anyway.

Only going RAID 0, if I don't have enough storage on one 6TB drive for my 1:1 blu ray rips.

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
Only going RAID 0, if I don't have enough storage on one 6TB drive for my 1:1 blu ray rips.
Don't, it's not worth the risk... re-ripping 12TB would take forever!! :nut:

You should have the option to leave them as JBOD. :thumbsup:

[ZMan2k2]

Originally posted by ipeefreely

Don't, it's not worth the risk... re-ripping 12TB would take forever!! :nut:

You should have the option to leave them as JBOD. :thumbsup:

Okay, new term. What's JBOD?

[ipeefreely]

Originally posted by ZMan2k2
Okay, new term. What's JBOD?

JBOD (which stands for "just a bunch of disks") generally refers to a collection of hard disks that have not been configured to act as a redundant array of independent disks (RAID) array.

Here's my little story why you shouldn't even think about using RAID 0:

I setup a RAID O for my wife's computer more than a couple of years ago while SSD were still really pricey and not that reliable.

One day it shut down funny or something and the array was lost just like that! Disk were still fine but everything on it was toast! :eek:

I do nightly images of my computers so it was back up and running in an hour but it doesn't take much to kill a RAID 0 setup... Power goes out without having a UPS could be enough to kill the array if you're unlucky.... :whipped:

[ZMan2k2]

Well, I'm hoping I can get my movies on one HDD, then I'll set it up RAID 1, and have that backup.

[ZMan2k2]

So, I've been copying movies and concerts all weekend. I've done the Hobbit movies, some various ones, the Star Wars collection, a couple concerts like Led Zeppelin, and I've used 500Gb. Looking at what I have left, should be around 4TB, so it should all fit on one drive, and I'll set up RAID 1, and finally have a backup, so I don't need to do this again.

What I'm ripping is just the movies, lossless audio, and subs. I never watch the extra features anyways, in 1080p/24Hz, bitstreaming the lossless to the receiver, and finally have subs, not like with Handbrake.

The Qnap is fantastic, so flexible, and Kodi is one hell of a media streamer. This should be great.

THANKS ALL!