Pharma co. defends 5,000% price increase to Aids medication

[01RedDX]

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[A790]

Some people are just bad people. He is one of them.

[codetrap]

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[phreezee]

I wonder if that is covered under Mulcair's $2.6B pharmacare plan.

[BananaFob]

Total dbag just judging from the picture:

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/turing_exec-800x430.jpg

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by codetrap
Holy shit! I hope he get's fucked by the long dick of the law for this. That's just insane.

There is nothing illegal about it apparently. Several other pharmaceutical companies have done the exact same, with no repercussions.

[Mitsu3000gt]

How is any of this illegal? Obviously he's a D-bag but what does the law have to do with this? If he bought the rights can't he make the price whatever he wants?

[SmAcKpOo]

Here's the issue. The script probably hasn't been genericized which means this pharmaceutical company has a monopoly on the drug/treatment.

I take Advair for my asthma and I can't wait for the script to become generic so I can stop paying 250$ an inhaler (60 doses, I take 4 a day).

The whole system is corrupt as shit especially when you look at the costs to manufacture it.

[01RedDX]

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[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by SmAcKpOo
Here's the issue. The script probably hasn't been genericized which means this pharmaceutical company has a monopoly on the drug/treatment.

I take Advair for my asthma and I can't wait for the script to become generic so I can stop paying 250$ an inhaler (60 doses, I take 4 a day).

The whole system is corrupt as shit especially when you look at the costs to manufacture it.

I thought after X number of years a drug recipe became fair game? And this one is like 60+ years old. What am I missing, because it sounds like this one isn't fair game?

[sabad66]

There was probably no incentive for other companies to make generic version (treats a rare disease, 'old' cost of 7.50 was already cheap). Hopefully now they will get into it.

[codetrap]

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[jacky4566]

Turing bough the rights to the branded drug (Daraprim). Because the drug no longer has patent protection, anyone who could manufacture the drug could go through the FDA approval process and sell a generic version of it.

There is however a patent on how Daraprim is synthesized, but any half dead chemist could come up with a new method.

Also fuck the US patent system. Looking at you Mickey Mouse Protection Act.

[Pacman]

Originally posted by SmAcKpOo


The whole system is corrupt as shit especially when you look at the costs to manufacture it.

You are forgetting the cost to research and develop it. That's where the huge cost is.

If the drug companies don't take the risk, who is going to pick up the slack? The government, insurance companies, Elon Musk? They don't want anything to do with it. They know it's a very risky game.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Pacman


You are forgetting the cost to research and develop it. That's where the huge cost is.


If the R&D costs were so high, why was the original developer of the drug selling it so cheaply?

I agree that there are many cases where the R&D and limited market cause high pharmaceutical costs, but this clearly isn't one of them.

[Pacman]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


If the R&D costs were so high, why was the original developer of the drug selling it so cheaply?

I agree that there are many cases where the R&D and limited market cause high pharmaceutical costs, but this clearly isn't one of them.

I was quoting Smackapoo's comment with regards to Advair and the "cost to manufacture" argument.

I agree, this particular case with the original drug price being raised is outrageous.

However, these types of threads (not just on this forum) tend to degenerate into "all drug companies are evil for making profit" type arguments.

[mikestypes]

Originally posted by Pacman


You are forgetting the cost to research and develop it. That's where the huge cost is.

If the drug companies don't take the risk, who is going to pick up the slack? The government, insurance companies, Elon Musk? They don't want anything to do with it. They know it's a very risky game.

Further to this, the time to get it tested, trialed and certified is enormous! The way patent laws work, you get protected for 25 years (usually) but you have to file the patent before trials can start and trials can take 10+ years. This reduces the available time to recoupe the original investment, especially since you need to outlay capital at the start and returns don't start flowing for 10+ years. Any NPV done on this is terrible. Costs to manufacture are not even a drop in the bucket in most cases.

Public hate for the Pharma industry is mostly a result of an uneducated public that doesn't understand the facts...kinda like the hate for the O&G industry!

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by mikestypes

Public hate for the Pharma industry is mostly a result of an uneducated public that doesn't understand the facts...

This guy isn't helping his own industry though. None of what you said apply, as this drug has been around for 60 years. It is a blatant cash grab.

[mikestypes]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


This guy isn't helping his own industry though. None of what you said apply, as this drug has been around for 60 years. It is a blatant cash grab.

I don't disagree that this case is ridiculous, but this guy is a hedge fund manager no :dunno:

[Toma]

And frontline Turburculosis doctors are hit with a 2000% increase in one of their special meds.

Capitalism.

Its for the greater good

[WhippWhapp]

Originally posted by BananaFob
Total dbag just judging from the picture:

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/turing_exec-800x430.jpg

He's a LoL player, who has an OKCupid profile... 'nuff said.

[rage2]

Originally posted by jacky4566
Turing bough the rights to the branded drug (Daraprim). Because the drug no longer has patent protection, anyone who could manufacture the drug could go through the FDA approval process and sell a generic version of it.

There is however a patent on how Daraprim is synthesized, but any half dead chemist could come up with a new method.

Also fuck the US patent system. Looking at you Mickey Mouse Protection Act.
CBC says the number of sales of the drug is very low, that's why nobody is producing a generic version cheaply as there's no market for it.

[atgilchrist]

Shkreli is able to do price-gouge a generic drug by exploiting a few FDA loopholes that give companies exclusive licensing rights to certain older drugs, and allow them to deny other companies the access to those drugs needed to prove that a generic alternative is chemically identical.

http://gawker.com/pharmaceutical-greed-villain-martin-shkreli-will-fight-1732104723

Article is laughably biased, but outlines how companies are able to pull this off.

Of course, new is coming out now that they will be rolling back the price "due to public pressure ". More likely, insurance companies told him they simply wouldn't pay the boosted price and he Risked losing the market.

[Toma]

Saw this...

[Toma]

Well, this dispicable CONservative dirtbag may meet his match if Bernie or Clinton win....

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/22/heres_how_hillary_and_bernie_want_to_beat_martin_shkreli_dem_candidates_roll_out_plans_to_rein_in_prescription_drug_prices/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[codetrap]

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[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by codetrap
Edit: Jesus, after I read this article, this guys days at that firm are numbered. Nobody likes this level of negative publicity, and his shareholders won't endure it for long.

Maybe that was his plan the whole time. He's probably got some massive golden parachute waiting for him when he's let go.

[cancer man]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Maybe that was his plan the whole time. He's probably got some massive golden parachute waiting for him when he's let go.


This is a given.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by atgilchrist

Of course, new is coming out now that they will be rolling back the price "due to public pressure ". More likely, insurance companies told him they simply wouldn't pay the boosted price and he Risked losing the market.

That's not what he is doing. Here is most likely his plan.

- Wait for an election year
- Buy rights to a seldom used drug for a high profile disease like AIDS
- Short a pile of BioMed stocks
- Jack up price of the AIDS drug he owns the rights to
- Cause a shitstorm on the news, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit
- Have every politician tell the public that they will reform drug patent laws
- Watch all of the BioMed stocks he is shorting fall
- Profit in the millions... if not billions
- Sell drug patent rights for the same price that he bought them for

He has no intention to make money by gouging people for the drug. He is doing this to manipulate the BioMed sector of the stock market.

Remember folks. This guy is a hedge fund investor.

[Supa Dexta]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-shkreli/u-s-says-pharma-bro-shkreli-deserves-at-least-15-years-in-prison-idUSKCN1GI2GV

Imagine if he ends up in prison and gets teh aidz

[rage2]

I just hope someone leaks that Wu Tang album.

[Gestalt]

He cried when getting his 7 year jail sentence.

http://time.com/5193670/martin-shkreli-prison-r-securities-fraud/

[A790]

He cried when getting his 7 year jail sentence.

http://time.com/5193670/martin-shkreli-prison-r-securities-fraud/
I probably would too. 7 years sucks.

Not that he doesn't deserve it.

[Clever]

Lesson here is don’t fuck with rich people. He’s going to jail for defrauding investors and not for jacking up the price of the medication, what a crazy world we live in.

[Buster]

why shouldnt he be allowed to charge what he wants for a product that he owns?

[HiTempguy1]

Lesson here is don’t fuck with rich people. He’s going to jail for defrauding investors and not for jacking up the price of the medication, what a crazy world we live in.

Honestly, the guy is going to jail for being a brazen jackass. He didn't just do one fraudulent activity. He did one, got away with it, did another, and then got his face plastered all over news worldwide.

While I like the "idgaf" attitude, he took it too far by rubbing people's faces in it, and that's why he is in jail. He could have been a millionaire and called it a day.

[rage2]

why shouldnt he be allowed to charge what he wants for a product that he owns?
That's not what he was charged for, although the length of his sentence certainly factored that in.

[Gestalt]

why shouldnt he be allowed to charge what he wants for a product that he owns?

Gangster capitalism is out of favour these days especially when it prays on vulnerable and dependent people.

But thats not why hes going to get the ass fucking he deserves for 7 years.

[Buster]

That's not what he was charged for, although the length of his sentence certainly factored that in.

Yeah I know... People are conflating the two things. But I still don't get why people think he shouldn't be allowed to charge what he wants for his product. It's basically a fundamental freedom of association issue.

[Gestalt]

Yeah I know... People are conflating the two things. But I still don't get why people think he shouldn't be allowed to charge what he wants for his product. It's basically a fundamental freedom of association issue.

I get confused sometimes. are you a fan of the invisible hand and free market equilibrium or the heavy hand on the scales by gangster capitalism?

[J-hop]

I get confused sometimes. are you a fan of the invisible hand and free market equilibrium or the heavy hand on the scales by gangster capitalism?

I think he’s pointing out as I’ve mentioned a few times a lot of people on here talk a lot about how great the free market economic model is. Except condemn people like this that (in the medication example) actually use it the way it’s intended to be used just because they don’t like the outcome.


I think people are way more socialist than the want to admit

[Gestalt]

I think he’s pointing out as I’ve mentioned a few times a lot of people on here talk a lot about how great the free market economic model is. Except condemn people like this that (in the medication example) actually use it the way it’s intended to be used just because they don’t like the outcome.


I think people are way more socialist than the want to admit

Then like him, you are thinking that his style of ganster calitaplism is the same as free markets. You guys might wnat to join 300guy wiht some economics for nursing class.

https://www.triplepundit.com/2011/12/fallacies-free-markets/

[J-hop]

Then like him, you are thinking that his style of ganster calitaplism is the same as free markets. You guys might wnat to join 300guy wiht some economics for nursing class.

https://www.triplepundit.com/2011/12/fallacies-free-markets/

Gestalt, I’m guessing you’ll ignore this as every time I challenge you on fundamental principles you run away.

Explain in your own words how what he did with the medication pricing violates the fundemental principles of the free market economy.

Edit: Too funny, your link, specifically points 2,4,5 are perfect examples of the failings of the free market economy concept (which I agree with). I think what you aren’t understanding is just because in a free market a company/product and its consumers don’t reach an optimal equilibrium doesnt mean it violated any of the fundemental principles of a free market economy. You may be confusing the title of “fallacies of the free market economy” as saying those are misunderstandings of the idea of a free market economy.

What it is actually saying is that the free market model is flawed because it makes several assumptions for how the free market will achieve equilibrium. Because those assumptions are violated doesn’t mean it’s not a free market.

[Gestalt]

Gestalt, I’m guessing you’ll ignore this as every time I challenge you on fundamental principles you run away.

Explain in your own words how what he did with the medication pricing violates the fundemental principles of the free market economy.

I linked you a whole article.

Here are some key terms.
Barriers to entry
Patents
Monopoly
Limited information

All part of gangster capitlaism.. No part of free market

You and busters confusion is common.

[J-hop]

Read my edit. You can’t just throw words out there. Actually explain your reasoning

[Gestalt]

Start here and read slowly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market

Then keep reading. They have entire economics for nurses course as 300guy took, so its more then I can hand feed you in a post.

Edit. God damn this gramarly thing I installed is annoying. Everything is underlined red. I'm bad but not that bad?

[J-hop]

Start here and read slowly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market

Then keep reading. They have entire economics for nurses course as 300guy took, so its more then I can hand feed you in a post.

Edit. God damn this gramarly thing I installed is annoying. Everything is underlined red. I'm bad but not that bad?

I was wondering how your posts got so much better. Yes it’s not wrong your posts used to be almost unreadable haha. Grammar is with two m’s btw.

I thought you said you’ve never taken a single economics course? Again explain how him jacking up the price on a pill violates a free market.

You know what they say, if you can’t explain something in simple terms you probably don’t know what you’re talking about.

Edit: I think you’re also confusing the ideas of contestable and incontestable monopolies. Both will result in the inability of a free market to reach equilibrium, however the former doesn’t fundamentally violate the free market economy principles. The former while violating free market assumptions doesn’t violate the fundemental principle of a free market.

[Gestalt]

I was wondering how your posts got so much better. Yes it’s not wrong your posts used to be almost unreadable haha. Grammar is with two m’s btw.

I thought you said you’ve never taken a single economics course? Again explain how him jacking up the price on a pill violates a free market.

You know what they say, if you can’t explain something in simple terms you probably don’t know what you’re talking about.

Why would I type it if its literally the first paragraph? How does price fixing and a monopoly fit free market principles? How do patents and other barrier to entry fit free market principles? How does lack of information fit free market principles.

I have a natural nack for the logical diagnosing process. This is similar. I could nt get into mount royal if my mom sat on the board. Highschool was not good to me.

[CUG]

I think people are way more socialist than the want to admit

I believe in socialized medicine, education, and essential services, that doesn't mean I'm entirely socialist though. People can be middle of the road, but dialogue these days is in such a negative state that everything is polarizing.

[01RedDX]

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[J-hop]

Why would I type it if its literally the first paragraph? How does price fixing and a monopoly fit free market principles? How do patents and other barrier to entry fit free market principles? How does lack of information fit free market principles.

I have a natural nack for the logical diagnosing process. This is similar. I could nt get into mount royal if my mom sat on the board. Highschool was not good to me.

Sorry i ninja edited again so you’ll have to go back.

It’s not price fixing as he isn’t conspiring with other companies he’s competing with to set a price and it’s not an incontestable monopoly (see above). Also in a free market companies are not required to share their research, that’s more of a communist approach.

Again, this is a prime example of a failing of the free market economy, especially when it comes to niche/ small consumer base items (health item to boot). But it’s not a violation of the fundemental principles, it’s just an example of how it fails when companies have no interest in competing on a certain playing field.

[J-hop]

I believe in socialized medicine, education, and essential services, that doesn't mean I'm entirely socialist though. People can be middle of the road, but dialogue these days is in such a negative state that everything is polarizing.

Totally 100% agree with everything you said. It’s just interesting watching individuals displaying blatant cognitive dissonance on the topic (I’m sure I do a ton as well and should be called out for it). On one hand on certain topics people will rave about how great a free market is, how Canada is too restrictive etc, then pull out hyper socialist ideas on another topic like say dealerships selling above MSRP

[Antonito]

“Gangster capitalism” is a phrase that Ayn Rand free market fanboys use in the same way that Communist wannabes say that the USSR is not a true representation of communism. Both ignore how the real world works

[Buster]

It depends on how you define "allowed." Some people have this thing called ethics but yes, you can be highly unethical without breaking the law.

A conscientious businessman's ethics would not have allowed him to do something as egregious as this.

I'm okay with people calling him an idiot, or a meanie, or an asshole, etc.

But it does not follow that we should restrict freedom of association - which is fundamental to any free society. I'm not interested in the debate on Skreli's merit as a human being, I'm just interested in defending his rights.

[kertejud2]

I'm okay with people calling him an idiot, or a meanie, or an asshole, etc.

But it does not follow that we should restrict freedom of association - which is fundamental to any free society. I'm not interested in the debate on Skreli's merit as a human being, I'm just interested in defending his rights.

It is indeed noble to defend a person's rights that weren't being infringed upon in the first place.

[Buster]

It is indeed noble to defend a person's rights that weren't being infringed upon in the first place.

wut?

Suggesting that he not be allowed to set pricing for his own products is suggesting his rights be infringed.

[Gestalt]

wut?

Suggesting that he not be allowed to set pricing for his own products is suggesting his rights be infringed.

Price fixing is illegal in most countries.

Probably because it goes against free market principles.

[J-hop]

wut?

Suggesting that he not be allowed to set pricing for his own products is suggesting his rights be infringed.




Price fixing is illegal in most countries.

Probably because it goes against free market principles.

Setting your own price on a product is not price fixing. I think before bashing people because they “took a nursing economy course” you should probably read up on basic definitions.

[Gestalt]

Setting your own price on a product is not price fixing. I think before bashing people because they “took a nursing economy course” you should probably read up on basic definitions.


Setting your own price on a product is not price fixing. I think before bashing people because they “took a nursing economy course” you should probably read up on basic definitions.

I'm very close to starting to ignore your continued misinformation.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pricefixing.asp

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-generics/u-s-states-allege-broad-generic-drug-price-fixing-collusion-idUSKBN1D0201

[J-hop]

I'm very close to starting to ignore your continued misinformation.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pricefixing.asp

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-generics/u-s-states-allege-broad-generic-drug-price-fixing-collusion-idUSKBN1D0201

You have to start reading beyond the first sentence. Price fixing is an agreement between producers...........

Directly from the article:



BREAKING DOWN 'Price Fixing'
A business fixes price by colluding with one or more of its competitors to buy or sell goods and services at an agreed price. These companies usually fix prices at a horizontal or a vertical price. Horizontal price fixing occurs when companies decide to fix prices or price levels for a good or service at a premium or a discount. For example, several retail companies may fix the sale prices of television sets at a premium, thereby, earning higher profits. The retail companies may also agree to fix the prices of television sets at a discounted price. In this case, consumers will be more inclined to purchase from the colluded businesses than from businesses not involved in the sales manipulation.



Price fixing is NOT one company setting it’s prices independently

[HiTempguy1]

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Again, this is a prime example of a failing of the free market economy,

What? No its not, its the perfect example of it working.

At best, its an example of how the trademark/IP rights is broken, but within the current framework and most definitions of capitalism and a free-market economy, you are wrong.

Just because you want something to be cheap because you see it as being for a good cause means exactly squat to how something is defined :nuts:

[Buster]

Can someone confirm that Gestalt is a mod alt account sent here to just fuck with us?

[Gestalt]

You have to start reading beyond the first sentence. Price fixing is an agreement between producers...........

Directly from the article:



Price fixing is NOT one company setting it’s prices independently
Your the one that needs to read past the first parahraph. A monopoly can definately price fix.

". For this reason, it is easiest for companies in a monopoly to fix prices, since they have no competitors that can counter their sales prices with lower ones.

Read more: Price Fixing | Investopedia
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook"

[J-hop]

What? No its not, its the perfect example of it working.

At best, its an example of how the trademark/IP rights is broken, but within the current framework and most definitions of capitalism and a free-market economy, you are wrong.

Just because you want something to be cheap because you see it as being for a good cause means exactly squat to how something is defined :nuts:

No no you’re completely misunderstanding what I meant and I 100% agree with you. I said exactly what you said in that it’s a perfect example of it working, but it’s a perfect example of one of the failings of the free market. People get royally screwed by the market sometimes in ways that may (like in this case) have a very negative effect on their well being.

[kertejud2]

wut?

Suggesting that he not be allowed to set pricing for his own products is suggesting his rights be infringed.

But now you suggesting I can't suggest somebody not be allowed to set pricing for their own products is suggesting my rights be infringed.

Suggesting that doesn't violate his rights. What makes you think it does?

He's free to set the price at whatever he wanted, that doesn't mean he's protected from the shitstorm that raising the prices provided, which includes people saying he should be sent to jail for doing it, and that it should be illegal. Until action is actually taken to prevent him from doing that, his rights aren't violated.

[Tik-Tok]

Can someone confirm that Gestalt is a mod alt account sent here to just fuck with us?

I think it's Toma here just to fuck with us.

[A790]

People can be middle of the road, but dialogue these days is in such a negative state that everything is polarizing.
That's the worst part of it: you can't have a conversation about it now without being talked down to, ridiculed, etc.

Everyone does it, and it's only getting worse. It's a stain on our society and is holding us back from progressing as we could/should be.

- - - Updated - - -


I think it's Toma here just to fuck with us.
You may/may be right.

[dirtsniffer]

Was Toma in an accident?

[HiTempguy1]

Naw, I've seen him posting on facebook. Gestalt definitely isn't Toma imo.

[CUG]

Totally 100% agree with everything you said. It’s just interesting watching individuals displaying blatant cognitive dissonance on the topic (I’m sure I do a ton as well and should be called out for it). On one hand on certain topics people will rave about how great a free market is, how Canada is too restrictive etc, then pull out hyper socialist ideas on another topic like say dealerships selling above MSRP

Well and it gives a look like people want that free market, but don't want to be responsible for sourcing or navigating their own procurement. It's like the used 300000km diesel truck market in this province. They genuinely believe some of their junk is still worth 40k...but for 20-30k more I can have something someone hasn't been shitting their pants in for the last 8 years while on coke-fueled benders in Kelowna.