Broken RX8: I attempt to build an autocross car?

[zieg]

Well after passing up on one of these a couple times over the years, never having time for a project car, and never wanting to race my daily driver, I finally pulled the trigger. This first post doesn't actually contain anything interesting so it's safe to stop reading now and wait til I post again.

The goal: Find a cheap ass RX8 with a blown engine, spend the winter fixing it up and go racing in 2016. Rotaries are easy, what's the worst that could happen?

The car: It's a 2005 GT with 89K on the clock and the engine is so blown it won't even run. Check.

http://i.imgur.com/vDzJKCcl.jpg

First steps.. Well, get it home. Check. And, LOOK HOW HAPPY IT IS!

http://i.imgur.com/eyBbZjGl.jpg

Now let's tear into it.. The battery is toast, that's easy.. Now it at least cranks. Looks like the thing's been sitting a while.. Bet the fuel has gone bad. Better change it out.

Step one: no drain plug, locate fuel pump. Oh there it is, under the back seat. That's a heck of a lot easier to get to than on my last car where you had to dive in through the trunk. Thanks Mazda!

http://i.imgur.com/vZGCRjHl.jpg

...Oh. You need a special tool to get the thing out. Thanks Mazda. ಠ_ಠ
The tool costs $25 online? And I have to wait? I don't have time for that! I'm gonna make my own. Now I've been called a lot of things in my years, but 'competent welder' isn't one of them. Oh well. Long as it passes the drop test, I only need it for a day. Stupid welder, setting one isn't hot enough for good penetration, setting 2 blows holes in the surprisingly thin walled tube.

Whatever, here it is. I held my breath while welding the nut.

http://i.imgur.com/dtG8Qoul.jpg

So it turns out the fuel pump access is actually not at the highest point of the tank. What the fuck? Can't take this off unless you're under 1/2 tank, 1/4 to be safe. Great. Gotta actually use the pump to get a bunch of gas out. Connect hose to outlet, jumper some pins in the fuse box for this exact purpose, let it run. If you're wondering what the hell I jumpered it with, it's copper shavings from my lathe. Don't ask.

http://i.imgur.com/4fxh49ol.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hrIDEeSl.jpg

Okay, time to use my tool. If you noticed there's more weld on it than the last pic, fuck you I don't want to talk about it.

http://i.imgur.com/YYFvnJzl.jpg

And there we go! I had to take the pump out on the driver side and some kind of secondary pickup out on the passenger side, then slid a hose in there and sucked it all out.

The one bit of good news is the assembly comes out much easier than other cars I've worked on. You don't have to twist and swear and force the assembly up through the hole.

http://i.imgur.com/HSl0TIkl.jpg

It's just too bad they used that dumbass ring instead of a few bolts like the rest of the world.

http://i.imgur.com/RmqK797.png
http://i.imgur.com/XiXZCtO.png


Oh well. That's all for now.. Tank is now bone dry. Next step, yank the engine. I just wanted to start this thread early because I've never actually bothered to log my work before. Within the next couple weeks the engine comes out and the real fun begins.

[AutodreamMarvin]

V8??

[zieg]

Heeelllll no. Gotta start in the street class man! Plus I already have a torque monster, I want this one to be slow as balls but turn like a... rx8.

I'd really like to do at least a street port on it while it's apart, but I can't tell for sure if that knocks me into a different class? Gut is saying yes.. Sad face. :(

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Nice looking forward to seeing you next year. My codriver and I were out fine tuning our B Street S2000 today at the test and tune.

[Maxx Mazda]

Awesome! I have he a real hard-on for rebuilding a rotary as of late. This thread should be enjoyable!

[FunWheelDrive]

I have an RX8 LS1 Swap Kit, for sale, in Calgary. Let me know.

[ekguy]

I love the newfound popularity of rotaries. Doesn't make me feel bad that I've been looking for another one for a couple years now....

Miss my 7 so much.

Can't wait to see the direction of this project.

[sr20s14zenki]

If you wanna ditch the crappy renesis (dunno if its blown? ) there are mounts for putting an REW in there.

:D

[zieg]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
If you wanna ditch the crappy renesis (dunno if its blown? ) there are mounts for putting an REW in there.

:D


REW swap hnnnnng

...


...


...


Okay, anyway, I'm going for the STS class so all that stuff is unfortunately a no go. Plus I promised my wife this build would be cheap, so I'll be keeping it as stock as I can until I accidentally bump myself into STX or something.

Fixed the highbeams today, stupid DRL controller needed new relays (a thankfully easy fix).

Solder removed from all the pins..
http://i.imgur.com/Ucb3fyHl.jpg

And boom (blurry, sorry).
http://i.imgur.com/XaM4xEnl.jpg

This is why I like having a project car again. Feeling restless? Go tear something apart. Something useful like working towards yanking the engine? Nah, I'll clean the interior at least to the point where I don't feel like changing clothes every time I sit in there. First victim is the center console, which run ALL THE WAY through the passenger compartment. Thankfully it breaks down into pieces that all fit in my wash tub. Better grab the glove box, steering column cover and anything else easily removed.

I didn't take pics during the cleaning because my hands were dirty. The car has an interesting setup where the cupholders are actually recessed into the transmission tunnel. There's a little pan that they sit in, along with some insulation. Well the insulation was completely caked in dried up soda. While I was watching all the colors go down the drain I couldn't help but think of this:
https://youtu.be/EQsk9dSuu9g?t=23s

Ahh, much better.
http://i.imgur.com/PHK0NjUl.jpg

..Except the shift knob, fair bit of wear on there. Decided to have a little fun and machine a new one. Not done yet though, need some tooling I don't have at home and, amazingly, an M10x1.25 tap. :nut:
http://i.imgur.com/CNIRvGNl.jpg

I'll shut up now, until I do something actually interesting.

[sr20s14zenki]

Yuck. Well hopefully some of it is cheaper than for the rew. Sounds like unless you are extremely lucky you'll need at least a rotor.. Rotor housing.. And maybe an iron. Unless you just get another engine. Wonder what Mazda charges for reman renesis engines.

[zieg]

Mazda charges $3K, I checked. It failed due to low compression, so hopefully the important bits are all still fine. Even with fresh gas (and nothing else done) it doesn't start, but it does crank super smooth.

I spoke with Adam at RX7 and decided on a stock rebuild plus upgraded seals. Not the ones that require premix though, because I fear that'd hurt resale value. I also ordered a Sohn OMP adapter the other day, so that ought to help the new engine a ton.


Tired of explaining how a rotary works to my coworkers, so I'm 3d printing one of these right now: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:184659

[sr20s14zenki]

Rotaries are fucking wicked. Ive always loved them, just never had the facilties or tooling to build one. Now i have a well equipped garage with micrometers, dial gauges, feelers of every thickness known to man, parts cleaner,compressor and multiple die grinders/tooling. etc.... So needless to say, im READY! lol

[Lex350]

Originally posted by AutodreamMarvin
V8??


v6 lighter

[toastgremlin]

$3K actually seems like a pretty alright deal, although then you can't spec something like a Goopy seal.

I think the last time I looked at it, it was something like $1600USD in parts to do the job semi-right. There are some temptingly cheap dead-engine RX8s on the local market but almost all of them are beat to shit to boot.

What are you doing for coils? There are a lot of Vortec Silverados in the Pick N Pull yard right now that can provide some very tasty LS2 coilpacks.

[zieg]

Ooooooohh! I had not thought of that. If that's a common mod I'm all over it! Thanks for the heads up, my plan was something like 'see if the current coils still fire and take it from there'...

[sr20s14zenki]

Stock coils suck.. A lot of guys use lq9 coils.

[toastgremlin]

Stock coils don't last very long and I wouldn't imagine they're doing your engine any favours while they're dying, either. Definitely worth doing an LS coil upgrade of some kind; you can make it happen on the cheap with junkyard parts.

http://www.normalexception.net/index.php/mazda-rx8-diy/rx8-ls2-ignition

[zieg]

Holy shit. I somehow missed this in my research. Been reading about them since my last post, and I'm so doing this. Muchas gracias!

edit: Got em! Not bad for like $45, even grabbed the connectors to splice.

http://i.imgur.com/VF4L776l.jpg

Was not planning to go today, but got back in town early so I decided to swing by. Was not fun to remove with nothing but a crescent wrench and a pocket knife.

[zieg]

Okay, engine is out. Went fairly smoothly. Only broke one bolt, and it wasn't even important! Bracket that braces the downpipe to the trans. Apologies in advance for the shitty pictures, I don't know what happened but after resetting my phone I can't take a good picture to save my life?

Pulling an engine in your backyard sucks though. I don't know why I decided to do it there instead of the garage. In order to move the car back and forth, I had to chain it to my other car, throw a rolled up camping mat between the bumpers and push/pull the thing as needed. That was interesting.

Got it out though. The tiedown strap was my improvised leveller because I stupidly decided I didn't need one when I picked up the hoist. Definitely getting one before the engine goes back. Also, I snagged the wire from the front O2 sensor on the way out. Not sure how much tension I put on it but.. is there any good way to check it? It's a 4-wire sensor. thinking just check resistance across heater wires and then figure out what reading I should be getting in open air?
http://i.imgur.com/5iMSjWZl.jpg


Had to remove the upper intake manifold to snug it high enough to fit in the back, but it just barely squeezed in. Then I drove it around to the garage where I unloaded it and will be tearing it down there. "Look Ma, I've a rear engine just like a Porsche!"
http://i.imgur.com/jRJoulRl.jpg

Now, what does everyone suggest I do while the engine's out? So far I have:
-replace oil injector lines with teflon I got from Newline
-Clean SSV
-Send injectors for cleaning/flowtesting (Where? I know a good place in Vancouver, but is there anywhere local?)
-clutch
-throwout bearing
-pilot bearing?
-trans input shaft bearing/seal
-possibly the clutch slave cylinder? There's also a nice SS line available if it won't bump me out of the stock class..

I also have a Sohn OMP adapter to install (for the uninformed, that allows you to run an external tank of 2-stroke oil to be injected into the combustion chamber instead of using crankcase oil), need to find a place to mount the new tank. Don't want to remove windshield washer tank if possible.. Any other suggestions?

And of course the ignition coils. Found a seller on eBay that has the same type of plugs as the stock coils, so I can build a plug and play adapter. Got some plug wire, boots and a crimper to make my own wires. Looking forward to that, should be fun.

[EM2FTL]

Did you decide on what rebuild kit you're using? Or are you going mazda reman?

Not sure if anyone mentioned Atkins kits - they are very customizable depending on what you want to do/spend.

http://atkinsrotary.com/store/04-11-Rx8-Manual-Rebuild-Kit-C-ARE68-Manual.html

[01RedDX]

.

[zieg]

Actually I'm thinking of going to RX7 Specialties for that. He quoted me a great deal on a stock spec rebuild. Cut-to-length side seals, upgraded apex seals (can't remember the name right now but not the type that forces you to premix every tank of gas..). Originally I had just approached him for help cleaning the parts and checking tolerances, but he laid it out for me and pretty well convinced me it's cheaper to have him reassemble it if he's already doing the disassembly and cleaning.

Really wanted to do that myself but now I dunno. I'm left with the impression I don't have the space or equipment to properly clean the parts, and a warranty would be awesome. What do you all think?

[EM2FTL]

You might want to search for some reviews of that shop.

[zieg]

I have. But it seems like stuff coming out of there lately has been pretty good. Sure as hell rather have an engine from them over a Mazda reman..

[tomt64]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
I have. But it seems like stuff coming out of there lately has been pretty good. Sure as hell rather have an engine from them over a Mazda reman..

I definitely wouldn't. :)

[zieg]

Well, I mean the plan always WAS to do it myself.. I guess I need a couple things to make that happen though.

I need:

-A way of cleaning the parts (would a standard parts washer tank work?)
-Special tools (breaker bar and socket for the flywheel nut, a press for the main gear bearings, anything else?)
-A rebuild manual would sure be nice. Any idea where I could get one? I looked in the beginning but didn't find much that was specific to the renesis.. All I see is this (http://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-technical-trouble-shooting-160/mazda-13b-msp-renesis-engine-workshop-manual-2003-2012-a-245370/) but I'm not sure it's exactly what I need.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
I have. But it seems like stuff coming out of there lately has been pretty good. Sure as hell rather have an engine from them over a Mazda reman..

I have heard bad things about Mazda remans, hoping the negative experiences were related to motors that came out of Ontario. I've currently got ~5,000kms on a mazda reman that came from Japan, so far so good. My car is catless so i'm able to run premix, I have high hopes for this motor.

I've read about some real horror stories with the shop in question though.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by ZiG-87

-A rebuild manual would sure be nice. Any idea where I could get one? I looked in the beginning but didn't find much that was specific to the renesis.. All I see is this (http://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-technical-trouble-shooting-160/mazda-13b-msp-renesis-engine-workshop-manual-2003-2012-a-245370/).

Atkins is a great source for 8 parts - tho with the exchange rate it's not so much a deal anymore.

Mazda's DVD (specify engine type on ordering): http://atkinsrotary.com/store/Mazda-Rotary-Instructional-Rebuild-DVD-ARE56.html

[zieg]

Do you use 2-stroke oil through the OMP as well as premix? I didn't know cats + premix = bad?


Originally posted by EM2FTL


Atkins is a great source for 8 parts - tho with the exchange rate it's not so much a deal anymore.

Mazda's DVD (specify engine type on ordering): http://atkinsrotary.com/store/Mazda-Rotary-Instructional-Rebuild-DVD-ARE56.html


ooooh nice, thanks.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
Do you use 2-stroke oil through the OMP as well as premix? I didn't know cats + premix = bad?


Sorry, by premix I meant 2 stroke oil (currently using whatever I can find, planning to get a couple of cases of Idemitsu though). I just pour it in the gas tank before filling up - I have read that it reduces the life of a cat, not sure how significantly.

If this is an autoX car, surely you'll be removing the cat though?

[zieg]

Only once I move to STX, but I had been planning to start in CS to get my feet wet and reduce the initial cost. I'd be down for splitting an order of oil though.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
http://i.imgur.com/SnCyq6r.png

[01RedDX]

.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
Only once I move to STX, but I had been planning to start in CS to get my feet wet and reduce the initial cost. I'd be down for splitting an order of oil though.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


Ahhh OK, not familiar with the classing rules for AutoX.

And that's a promising list! Splitting an order would be awesome but i'm up in Edmonton :(

[zieg]

No problem, I'm back and forth often enough. Going at least as far as red deer every other week.

[EM2FTL]

Well then, i'll PM you my # and we can figure out details! Happy to meet you in Red Deer as well.

[962 kid]

Why stray from the factory seals on this rebuild?

[zieg]

Good question. It's just what was recommended to be. But if I'm going to buy that atkins stuff I'll have to do a bit more reading and decide if the atkins seals are worth the extra cash. My impression right now is a solid "probably"?

[sr20s14zenki]

I can probably help you with rotor bearings and main bearings. I bought the tools from pineapple and have a press. Ill be doing my own soon.

[zieg]

Oh sweet! I'll bring the beer. :D

Ok, I'm doing this myself. For better or worse. It'll be a perfect project for me.

[sr20s14zenki]

No problem. lemme know when you get your shit ready. I have the socket for the main nut too. If you just wanna bring your engine here you can. I wouldnt mine busting open a renesis.

[zieg]

Thanks, that'd be awesome. I'll strip it down and order the parts ASAFP.

[sr20s14zenki]

Yeahhh tear her down to the keg and fw and let's rip Er down.

[zieg]

Roger that. Parts ordered, eta 6-10 bus. days. Went with their recommended atkins apex seals, stock side seals and solid corner seals. Seems like a decent combo.

[sr20s14zenki]

Should be fine. I was gonna go with Atkins for seals. Instead I'm gonna get everything from them except seals. Going with als for seals. Hear good stuff.

[zieg]

For big power you bet. Hm, oem apex/corners are only $200 more though, wonder if that'd be easier. Might give em a call tomorrow, I love second guessing myself.

[sr20s14zenki]

There's nothing wrong with oem. What gets me is that there stronger proven seals out there and they are all cheaper than Mazda oem lol.. Even Atkins.

[zieg]

Yeah, also true. They've definitely been around long enough. Guess it's preference, like anything else.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
There's nothing wrong with oem. What gets me is that there stronger proven seals out there and they are all cheaper than Mazda oem lol.. Even Atkins.

I wonder why they're cheaper...

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 962 kid


I wonder why they're cheaper...

:clap: OEM seals only, anything else you're asking for trouble. Ask those who've actually been to Japan ;) Anybody run Atkins, Rotary Aviation, or Rice Racing :rofl:

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by 962 kid


I wonder why they're cheaper...

Fair enough. From what i understand, they are the best at not eating housings, keeping compression the longest, etc. You would probably know more than me at this point, lol.

That being said, at least when one of the aftermarket ones fail it doesnt eat everything in sight. Better chances of saving a housing and rotor?

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
Better chances of saving a housing and rotor?

Nope. The whole "Our seals won't ruin the housings when they go" is just a bullshit marketing ploy, especially cruel since some of them ruin housings BEFORE they go :rofl:

It always makes me laugh. "Our seals are Super Seals they won't blow". "When they blow they won't ruin the housings or rotors". Um wait a second.

Listen an apex seal lets loose stock or aftermarket it's doing damage.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Nope. The whole "Our seals won't ruin the housings when they go" is just a bullshit marketing ploy, especially cruel since some of them ruin housings BEFORE they go :rofl:

It always makes me laugh. "Our seals are Super Seals they won't blow". "When they blow they won't ruin the housings or rotors". Um wait a second.

Listen an apex seal lets loose stock or aftermarket it's doing damage. cool. Again you have more experience than me. So... Good to know.

Now I'm torn again lol.

[zieg]

Aaaah screw it, stock seals are known to work, and I'm not going FI or anything. Done and done.

[Dumbass17]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
And, LOOK HOW HAPPY IT IS!

http://i.imgur.com/eyBbZjGl.jpg


you bastard! :poosie:
now i'll never be able to see an RX8 without seeing a big smiling front end haha

[zieg]

Pfft you think that's bad, go look at the last two generations of the mazda 3. :rofl:

[ekguy]

old miata's look surprised at all times

[legendboy]

if you still need I have an M10x1.25 tap if you don't want to buy one

[zieg]

Ah cool thanks, might have to take you up on that. Need to turn another one first though. Gouged it trying to chuck it in backwards to clean up the top.. Just too much for a mini lathe to handle. Gonna make another next week, or possibly just skim .010" or so off this one, lol.

Also, my lathe has been out of commission since last weekend because of the stupid potmetal clamps that hold the carriage to the ways. They're held to the carriage by 3 screws with grub screws in between to set the clearance. Well I was trying to track down some nasty slop and realized they both looked like a W with cracks going through each of the 5 holes. This is where having a mill comes in handy. Got some (bigger) flatbar, drilled out the same hole pattern and milled about 0.6mm off the surface that runs on the bottom of the ways. Literally just finished now, but moving the carriage back and forth already feels better than it ever did.

[legendboy]

nice

[zieg]

Well... This will keep me busy.

http://i.imgur.com/BHr4yPwl.jpg

[zieg]

Worked a bit more today, planning more tomorrow. Got the manifolds and clutch off, then set to work on mounting it to my engine stand which was generously donated by a coworker.

So this is level, eh? Looks like I have to drill a new alignment hole...
http://i.imgur.com/I1IUgvsl.jpg

I hate my tiny ass garage. When not working on the engine, I have juuuuuust enough room to back my other car in and close the door...
http://i.imgur.com/cZIXcxCl.jpg

[sr20s14zenki]

its soo wierd for me to see the peripheral exhaust blocked off =(

[Alak]

Mounted it backwards ;) have to mount it on the front plate.

[zieg]

Originally posted by sr20s14zenki
its soo wierd for me to see the peripheral exhaust blocked off =(

Get the drill.



Originally posted by Alak
Mounted it backwards ;) have to mount it on the front plate.

Oh shit, that's not how they did it on the Atkins video I bought. Oh well, at least it works. I've got it stripped all the way to the bare keg now, plus or minus a sensor or two. Fuck I hope my labeling job was good enough. :rofl: Once I took off the ignition coils I realized there were only a few bolts holding the entire harness on, so that came out real quick.

http://i.imgur.com/KKkHaJml.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cuinpe3l.jpg

[Alak]

No worries. You mount it on the front plate then remove everything on the front. It should be In such a way that the center of the engine is about center with the tube for the engine stand. The last piece remaining will be the front plate when you are done.


When you loosen the flywheel nut leave it on a couple threads and go to town with a rubber mallet or deadblow. The vibration should pop it loose. Sometimes you need to pry a little while hitting it but usually thats only with an aftermarket flywheel that has a separate counter weight. You should do this next.

[zieg]

Hmm, that makes sense. Thanks. I guess I could redrill that c-channel adapter and flip the plate on the stand. That should get it pretty close to balanced. Gotta lock the flywheel now and see if I can get with srZenki to break that nut loose. Alternatively, PA does sell the sockets but they are friggin' 1" drive so I'd just weld a 2ft length of square tube to it.

Do you really need to remove the alignment dowels between housings? That's what Atkins says to do but it looks like a PITA and I don't have a slide hammer attachment to thread in. Not that I should let that stop me, but..

[Alak]

You'll need more than a two foot bar haha. Sears also sells the socket. I use a 4 foot 3/4" breaker bar with an adapter. Princess auto special. Use a half in drive extension, maybe a 6 inch or so and if you can, wedge it between the counter weight and something on the rear plate like a corner. That's how I used to do it before I got a flywheel lock. Alternatively you can load up the engine and take it to a tire shop with the socket and they can buzz it off for you.

You don't need to remove the dowels to take apart the engine. When you pull it apart the dowels usually stay in the rotor housing. If they are stubborn you can thread in a bolt and tap them out. Once you get the tension bolts off everything just unsandwiches apart. You'll have to give some love on the rear plate with a rubber mallet. Don't pry between the housings because you can damage the mating surfaces. When you pull the rotors out, have an elastic or electrical tape handy with an extra set of hands. Pull up on the rotor and tape around the apex so the seals don't go PING and disappear forever. It's good to keep everything oriented so you can measure the old stuff and compare it to the new stuff. When you pull the center plate you need to lift up on the eccentric shaft to walk the center plate off the offset lobes. This is why you need to completely dismantle the front of the engine so nothing is holding it. Leave the stationary gears in the irons. Alternatively if you have a second set of hands you can pull the eshaft and center plate out together. Make a note too where the tension bolts come out of. I usually label them as per the torque sequence in the manual.

If you need a hand I can probably assist sometime next week. I'm busy finishing up a mercedes project (nightmare) but I might have a little time.

[sr20s14zenki]

Princess auto sells the socket too, but you're welcome to come out any time and use mine. its a 2 1/8" . My impact took my nut off, hopefully itll do yours too. Usually you can wedge a tension bolt in the dowels and pop em out. Usually they dont resist too bad. if they do i give it a few raps with my plastic hammer, that usually loosens them up.



Just give me a heads up via PM and we will organize.

[zieg]

Okay sorry man, been traveling a bunch and then a friend of mine said she wanted to help with the teardown, because she's interested in a career change and wants some experience turning wrenches. So I figured what better way to scare her off than to disassemble a rotary engine, and we went to it last night. I used the bread method to remove the pilot bearing. Can't believe it actually worked.

The rotors look worse than I expected, but the housings look pretty damn good! To my untrained eye anyway.. No scoring, very little carbon buildup, no flaking that I can see.. And I assume the rotors should clean up pretty nicely? Some of the seals weren't moving at all so that definitely explains the compression.


Got tired of the shitty phone pics, grabbed my camera and a 50mm F/2 lens..

http://i.imgur.com/9GxurrGl.jpg
full res: http://i.imgur.com/9GxurrG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Tw0WHbDl.jpg
full res: http://i.imgur.com/Tw0WHbD.jpg

[sr20s14zenki]

Housings look pretty good. So there were no broken apex seals? Just carbon locked?

[zieg]

Yup. Guess I got lucky! The apex seals weren't locked in there too bad but there's definitely carbon buildup in the springs. The side seals on the other hand, some barely move at all. Thinking that's what really did it in. Irons look good too, so now I'll start cleaning!

[zieg]

Ok that took a bit but it's all clean now. What a pain in the ass, especially all those fucking grooves in the rotors, fuck.

http://i.imgur.com/8mYPpIJl.jpg
full res: http://i.imgur.com/8mYPpIJ.jpg

And also, fuck Mazda for pinning those exhaust port sleeves in such a dumbass way. Would have been way easier to deal with if they could have been unbolted or something.


Okay, now I need to lap the irons, polish the e-shaft and press new bearings into everything. Oh and all the misc parts need to be cleaned.. oil pressure regulator (and shim), intake manifold, etc. And I need to find a way to walk into a store and buy vaseline without looking suspicious.

[962 kid]

Skip the vaseline, get some Dow Corning 111

[relyt92]

Originally posted by ZiG-87
And I need to find a way to walk into a store and buy vaseline without looking suspicious. Depending on quantity you could go to Greggs and get 2kg pails of it.

[zieg]

Okay, engine is back together. Er, the keg is anyway. Broke a bolt on the front stationary gear so I can't put the front cover/oilpan on until I get a new set, which is on order and due Tuesday. Got real lucky the broken end came out with zero issues.

Flywheel freshly machined
http://i.imgur.com/LqTZFL8l.jpg

Rotor 1
http://i.imgur.com/kdln7Fgl.jpg

Rotor 2
http://i.imgur.com/VjtlPiJl.jpg

So far so good. She makes a good pop when I kick it over by hand, got the new clutch installed on the flywheel and the OMP injectors back in their holes.. Once the front cover is on I will replace the actual OMP lines. Hoping to have it back in the car next weekend or the weekend after. I did a very tight clearance when I trimmed the side seals so it will need to be broken in easy. Wanna put 3-5k on it before the first autox event.


Holy fuck was the lower intake manifold dirty. Gum/varnish on all three of the air control valves, took a couple hours (and a new set of wire wheels for the dremel) to clean that all up, but it's spotless now. I had to disassemble the actuator for the APV to finish cleaning in there, but didn't realize the motor uses its own position to judge the angle of the valve. Need to reset it now. Shit.

The APV works by moving the horizontal rod back and forth (motor driven from the back side) and that causes the two cylinders to rotate, opening and closing those ports. There's also a rotary valve above that which blocks off two more ports, and at the very top is a rotary valve that just balances the pressure between the first and second rotor intake plenums. Interesting.
http://i.imgur.com/LFd4eUfl.jpg

[sr20s14zenki]

Looking good.

Im going to get my components from adam this week.

Hopefully i can finish porting soon. Need to find the time. got my porting kit from Racing beat... :)

[zieg]

Man I was so tempted to try that. Gonna do the porting yourself?

[sr20s14zenki]

yah its in my build thread
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=392815&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

i got a good start on it, now i can finish. Couldnt find the appropriately sized ball stones for the life of me in calgary. Now i can finish the bowls.

[zieg]

Uhhhhhhh does anyone have a spare RX8 oil pan? Mine is fucking NASTY and isn't cleaning up very well.

[sr20s14zenki]

Adam has i bet

[zieg]

Yup, good call, thanks.

Side note I dislike the fact that an oil pan could bump me out if the stock class. :(

[zieg]

Okay, replaced the OMP lines, installed the Sohn adapter, intake manifold and wiring harness. Does anyone know how a guy could prime the OMP system? Wondering if it might be as simple as running the input shaft with a drill, or does it need electrical power to open a valve or something as well? In any case, I think I should run premix on the first tank...

OMP lines with the proper ear clamps (and the proper tool)
http://i.imgur.com/u71dR9Ll.jpg


Saturday it goes in the car. My body is ready.

[zieg]

Okay, engine is in. Finally finished the hookups today. The tank I bought for the Sohn OMP adapter did not fit. Turns out the guy who suggested it was using it on a car without headlight washers, so the tank fit between the WW reservoir and the air pump. Neither of us realized the reservoir is bigger on cars with sprayers. So, I had been hoping to get through this build without having to go to Home Depot to buy parts for my car, but alas.. Here's my temporary oil tank until I can find something else. Holds a little over half a liter and.. fits.

http://i.imgur.com/tGqxocol.jpg

Primed the system, turned the key, no start. :( Little bit of digging showed it is seeing rotation while cranking, so the ESS is ruled out. Checked for spark, nothing. Took a look at the coils and they appear to be completely fucked. Resistance across the pins is either triple the spec, or infinite, and they have original part numbers printed on the side. Checked the output on the harness side and they are seeing pulses from the PCM. Yeah, they're done. Glad I snagged those LS2 coils at the wrecker in the fall, I just didn't want to put them on right away in case they caused a problem. Looks like I'm doing them now.. Building the harness now.

[sr20s14zenki]

rx8 coils are absolute shit. Some ive seen were needing to be changed at 30,000 miles. Usually they would fail, fill the cat with fuel, and have it fail too (=

[zieg]

Yeah I'm hoping my cat didn't suffer that fate. It looked okay visually but I was mainly checking for clogs. I knew the coils would likely need replacement but I hoped it would at least run, lol.

[zieg]

Crap. Finished my LS1 coil retrofit but it still won't start. Is there anywhere in town I could take the coils to be tested? They did come from pick n pull.... I checked that I have power to them, I am getting SOME kind of signal on the trigger wire when it's cranking, but still nothing. Double checked the wiring on my DIY harness adapter and all seems fine there too..

[sr20s14zenki]

Did you make sure to use the right pin out. Ls1 and ls2 coils have power and ground flipped. Not sure what you used.

Yup looked at your earlier posts. You have lq9 coils which wire like ls2 not ls1

[zieg]

Hm, didn't realize there was a difference in the wiring but I followed the LS2 diagram. Power is pink and on the outside of the connector:

http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_Motronic/Ignition_Coil_Drivers_files/MS3%20to%20Motronic%203x_15982_image006.gif

[sr20s14zenki]

Hmm. Did you ground both grounds to the engine or did you find out which one is igniter ground and which is chassis ground and wire appropriately.? Not that it should matter but it's an idea. Those coils are usually pretty bullet proof.

[zieg]

Yeah I put the chassis ground to a ground point on the center iron. Is there anything in the PCM that would prevent the coils from firing? Wondering if I have a bad connection on a plug somewhere that might be causing trouble. I scanned for codes again but the fact that I didn't get anything doesn't necessarily mean much.

[sr20s14zenki]

You could scope your crank sensors to make sure you are getting a proper crank angle signal.

Ensure your engine/harness is grounded to the proper/stock locations?

It should just be a standard 5v logic level output, which is what they need. It's not rocket appliances. (=

Does your tach bounce while you crank? (old rx7 trick to know weather it was getting crank signal or not)

[zieg]

Yeah the ECU was reporting RPM over OBDII so I assumed that was working. I think my method for detecting spark was faulty though, the timing light doesn't pick it up but when I removed one of the plugs and wrapped a wire from the threads to the battery ground, I did see a spark while cranking. Not sure if maybe it's just a weak spark, but that doesn't make a ton of sense either.

The weird thing is, it doesn't even sound like it wants to fire. It just cranks and cranks, without speeding up, sounds exactly the same as when you put the pedal to the floor and it's in flood clear mode. Which I did do by the way, even removed the plugs to let it fire out a cloud of fuel, poured a bit of 10W30 in to help compression, but still fking nothing. :banghead:

[zieg]

Pull started it. Fired right up, held it at like 3k for a while. It died eventually, so we pull started it again and the cycle repeated. This time we noticed the coolant reservoir was dropping since the system had not been burped yet, so I let it cool way down, filled the reservoir and it started on its own this time. Still haven't tried letting it idle yet but it's sounding better and better, so I will take that as a good sign! Hoping at this point it just needs a bunch of run time to seat everything...

[rx7_turbo2]

Sometimes it can take awhile to get a rebuild going the first time. My first motor was like that. Once it fired up it smoked for about ten mins, we set the timing, the smoke cleared and the idle smoothed right out. Good work:thumbsup:

[sr20s14zenki]

Haha just stubborn eh! hope mine works that well!

[zieg]

I just hope mine works well eventually. :P

[zieg]

Grr, ok, compression is up slightly but it's still hard starting. Has only run for maybe 20-30min so far. Weird thing is, I hold it at 2-3k rpm (what I read to help seat everything) but after 5-10 minutes, it just dies. As if I turned the key off, and won't restart for a while.

First thought is something emissions related. Maybe I messed up one of the valves in the intake manifold, or a vacuum line or something? Not sure how that would cause such an abrupt stop though, unless it was happening just as it was going into closed loop mode. Does that ring a bell with anyone?

Other thing I'm reading from similar situations (though not with a new engine) is fuel pump failure. Like it runs for a bit and then warms up and cuts out. No way to directly measure fuel pressure while it's running, either.. Hmm...

[zieg]

WOO! Breakin is now underway. With the help of my buddy, we drove it to a nearby parking lot and spent an hour putting 25km on in 1st gear. By the end of that, it would finally idle on its own. Then took it for another cruise around the community for another 20-some km before it started snowing more than I would have liked, and I also discovered the heat isn't working. Common problem on these cars, 99% sure it's a bad heater control. Should be an easy fix.

Once I got it on my driveway I made a new milestone: The engine turned off because I turned the key. lol. I also tried starting it right away and it fired right up! Looks like the seals are starting to seat nicely and I should be in good shape! Now I need to put as many km on as possible before my first autox event!

Airing up one of the tires that was down a few lbs.
http://i.imgur.com/EFbIgU4l.jpg

[sr20s14zenki]

Awesome! I have hope for mine now hahaha. I fucked up on porting my primaries, so i need to grab a new iron and start again. Lesson learned, never port inward. i was just trying to clean up the little shelf, and ended up going into the oil track =(

[zieg]

Ah, shit. :( Going to grab one from Adam? I'm sure he can spare one or two... hundred. I was totally drooling over your progress pics, too. Let the nice weather be a motivation..

On that note I fixed my heater control and put like 150km on it today. Nice and smooth now, very pleased with everything so far.

Guess I should start the actual autox prep pretty soon here too.. I can do one swaybar, any alignment specs that can be made with stock hardware, and I figure I may as well just leave the tires alone until I wear 'em out. I've also read that there is a way to lower the seat a bit more than stock for helmet clearance, which might be nice given the sunroof. Or just raise the seat up a tad more and drive with my head out the sunroof, but I bought an open face helmet so that might be cold/windy.

I also have to:

-confirm fix of tail light condensation (did it this afternoon, letting sealant set now and then will check)
-permanent OMP tank mount (want to swap my large washer fluid tank for the small ones found in cars without headlight washers and use the space that creates)
-install the raceroots synchro-saver I bought off a forum member on a whim
-replace windshield
-get the airbag recall done so I don't feel like I should be wearing a face shield while driving
-burn the last of the rust off the brake rotors :rofl:
.
.
.
.
.
...clean the parts out of the living room before my wife literally kills me.