Verbal Rental Agreement

[notoriouss]

I have a question regarding rental agreements. Can a condition in a rental agreement be verbal? I had a verbal agreement with my tenants before they moved in about no smoking and no pets (I totally forgot to draft that inside the agreement), but what do they do they have a few dogs and their smoking inside. They just recently moved out and are demanding their damage deposit back. Does a verbal rental agreement still stand?

[codetrap]

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[revelations]

Not on paper, not enforceable in the courts eyes ..... :dunno:

[dirtsniffer]

Is there damage? Not having them in the agreement does not mean they van cause damage. Even if pets and smoking were allowed you could still charge for repairs due to either. You can't just keep the deposit cause you feel they went against your verbal agreement.

Even if it was written it may not give you cause to keep the deposit. Only to evict them for breaching the agreement.

[notoriouss]

I was doing some research about it and service alberta has some information based on a verbal agreement, it is the third point in the this link: http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/618.cfm
Yes there was damage in terms of smoke where it seeped into all the carpet where that had to be replaced, all the ceilings and walls were repainted, and the ducts were cleaned by a company. I'm not sure how I could prove it to a judge other than keeping a piece of carpet with the smell of smoke in it, and taking pictures of the sub-floor having urine stains from pets.

[schurchill39]

The damage deposit is there to cover damages incurred while they were living there. If there was damage (regardless of any verbal agreement or not) then you are entitled to use that deposit to repair the damages.

If there was staining from the smoke or the pets and you had to take some action to fix/clean/repair it then that comes from the damage deposit and you return what ever portion wasn't used.

If it went to courts thats more than likely how it would play out as well.

[HiTempguy1]

Smoke and pet damage is not "reasonable wear and tear".

Of course, who the f&%k doesnt put "no smoking no pets" in their rental agreement :nut:

If the damage is extensive enough, I'd take them to small claims.

[notoriouss]

Thats what is being used for to remediate the house of all the smoke because the old tenants had smoked in the house and it turned white walls and ceiling into that nasty yellow tinge.

[Zhao Kan]

Even if you had it in your rental agreement, they still could of brought in pets/smoked and you'd still be in roughly the same situation you are in right now. All having it in your contract could add to this is it would give you decent grounds to get them evicted early, if you caught it early.

Limit your fixed term contract to something short like 6 months, and do periodic inspections. Once at 3 months should be an OK time to see if you want them to continue to rent for another term (tell them you need to change the furnace filter, smoke alarm battery, or some other crap excuse if you don't want to out right say why you really want to come into the place). After that continue to do periodic inspections to keep on top of things.

This also lets you see if there is any damage done to the property so you can deal with them fixing or paying for the damage right now. Any damage you find should be dealt with instantly as you don't want a huge bill at the end of the tenancy that the damage deposit won't cover. Any problems with them violating the agreement or not paying for damage, and worst case scenario you only have to get through months of them being there rather than almost a year... or maybe 2 if you signed some crazy long term contract.

No smoking and pets should be communicated to any prospective tenants enough times that it's clear they get the message imo. Make sure they know this extends to their guests too. You know how people are when you tell them something they plan to do anyway, they're like yayaya, sure (and in their mind they're thinking pffft, i'm going to say what i need to now and do that anyawy). IMO if they say they casually or socially smoke they smoke and will smoke in your unit. If they say they only smoke outdoors, that is a lie because who does that shit in -35 with a windchill of -100. They will smoke indoors with the window open thinking tehy're smart and that doesn't count.

The advice given to me was say it's because you want to be able to rent this property out to people with allergies/health concerns, and you need to be able to say no pets or smoking has happened on the premises.

[theken]

When I used to smoke I went outside everytime regardless of weather. It's my own house though, but fuck me does that ever stank in a house.

[PeterGTiR]

Here you go:

http://www.servicealberta.ca/pdf/RTA/13NORMAL_WEAR_and_TEAR.pdf



Some examples of damages to the physical condition of rental premises for which deductions can be made (when inspection reports are properly completed) are:


Steam cleaning of rugs with obvious dirt, soil, oil or urine stains or holes
Badly repaired holes in walls
Pushed in door panel
Food, dirt or nicotine on walls, cupboards and appliances
Broken glass
Holes in window screens
Garbage or litter strewn about
Pet excrements.





The cleaning of carpeting or rugs is one of the main sources of conflict between landlords and tenants. If the tenant had a pet that was not caged, steam cleaning will almost certainly be required regardless of the length of the tenancy. But that doesn’t mean that every time a tenancy ends professional carpet cleaning is required and the expense can be charged to the tenant. If the landlord wants to do that, the carpet will have to have been in such a condition that professional cleaning is required. The landlord cannot charge a tenant for the total replacement of a worn out carpet or rug simply because that particular tenant happened to be leaving at a time when the replacement is required. Spilled liquids, cigarette burns, oil stains or mud tracked onto carpets may be occurrences of everyday living, but they are not normal wear and tear. The overall deterioration to the carpet from repeated cleanings is normal wear and tear.

It doesn't have to be written into your lease agreement.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Kloubek]

That's exactly it. A verbal agreement is still an agreement, but the judge has to determine who is telling the truth. If it is a wash, they have to side with the fact the contract didn't state it.

This actually has me thinking... I recently rented my basement, and I actually didn't put this into the contract, though it is in the ad I posted, which can be proven. I think I'm covered, but man that was an oversight on my part. (New to being a landlord)

[Feruk]

Did you even do an inspection at start/end of lease? If not, I suspect you'll have a hard time proving they did the damage.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Feruk
Did you even do an inspection at start/end of lease? If not, I suspect you'll have a hard time proving they did the damage.

This is also super important. My last and current landlords never had me do an inspection :dunno: I did pay for someone to come in and clean though as I had lived there for 3 years, seemed reasonable.

[Rocket1k78]

ALWAYS PUT IT IN WRITING!

Keep the receipts for any work done and hope for the best with RTDS. FYI they side heavily with tenants no matter whos at fault.