Russia jumping into the Syrian civil war

[revelations]

So the Americans couldnt make anything work in Syria - except to destabilize the area (which seems to be their end game) .... whats the take on Russia suddenly jumping into the party at the request of Assad?

Even Israel doesent really care all that much.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by revelations
Even Israel doesent really care all that much.

Ummm ya. No surprise.

Syria used to have the single best Anti Aircraft defense in the middle east. it kept Israel out of its airspace.

This shield is no longer in effect.

The Israelis are happy to see sand monkeys killing sand monkeys.

It's like Jew Christmas.

[frizzlefry]

Russia hasn't jumped into anything. They have been supplying Assad for the while. They are officially allies. Russia is just increasing support. With the end goal of having more control in the region of course.

This is hardly surprising. More power to them. If they have the balls to do what needs doing and wipe ISIS out then at least negotiations in the region will be about something tangible like natural gas and not sharia law or some religious bullshit.

[Toma]

Within just a few days, Russia has decimated a huge part of ISIS in Syria. They also have their special ops guys on the ground. The first few campaigns are said to be so successful, that Iraq had asked the Russians for help as well fighting ISIS there.

Like the rest of the sane world, they dont care about a 2 front war, and helping ISIS get rid of Assad, while at the same tike claiming to be fighting Isis.

Fucking crooked Americans. They will never do what's right.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Toma
Within just a few days, Russia has decimated a huge part of ISIS in Syria.

Lol... Before a couple cruise missile strikes, they've been targeting everyone except IS.

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/59BF/production/_85957922_syria_us_russian_airstrikes_624.png

[codetrap]

.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Haven't they been hitting everything BUT ISIS? That's what every other country and every major news outlet is reporting anyway.

[ZenOps]

I think the US is just sore that they didn't wipe them all out (Assad and ISIS) with one swipe. Now that Russia is taking a stab at it, they might get the spoils that were softened up by US forces.

Or not. It still might take a few more years.

[codetrap]

.

[revelations]

Essentially most of the main-stream media from either the US or Russia is not to be trusted. I was hoping to find some information outside this.

There are probably half-dozen governments in the "Levant" area with troops on the ground so its a total cluster fuck of who is supporting who. There is also the danger that Russia might bomb Americans as well.

Russia claims strikes against "key" targets, but there is really no easy to way to tell with certainty if that means that they suceeded where America failed.

[eblend]

American's bombed a hospital and yet all you see in the Western media is that Russia is exposing itself to prosecution for war crimes for being an accomplice to Assad. The attitude of "our shit don't stink" is so blatantly obvious it hurts.

There were reports from Western media that Russia was bombing civilian areas....before the planes even took off....so don't believe everything you hear, from any news source. They are all biased as shit. It's an information war, which seems to be more important then the real war on the ground.

I love the "Russia isn't helping and pouring fuel on the fire", "They have a very poor strategy"..."They will not succeed"....coming from American's who so far have managed to supply "moderate" rebels with weapons which end up in ISIS hands...and trained like 6 people...and no tangible results.....and they think that this is the winning strategy?

Instead of concentrating on regime change they should maybe defeat ISIS first, then deal with Assad. Assad maybe an asshole, but he is an elected president, who is the USA to tell them who is to run the country. Seems like majority of the countries are warming up to the idea that perhaps Assad issues should be put to rest for now and to deal with ISIS first.

[revelations]

America only seems interested in de-stabilizing regions. Assad/Hussein/Qadaffi were both able to bring different religions of people together (even if by brutal force).

As this has been going on for 100s of years, the doctrine of American exceptionalism still applies. America is special and can do what the F it wants ....:rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

[Kloubek]

I know this may not be popular opinion, but this bombing campaign is destined for failure.... as is any bombing against those lead by a radical movement. The fact is that you can only safely kill a fraction of those involved - and of those who you don't manage to kill, it only fuels their resolve.

Add to that collateral civilian damage, and you're turning non extremists into moderate extremists and moderate extremists into radical extremists.

It's always a losing battle. You would have thought that the US and others would have taken note of what occurred in Afghanistan, whereby the Taliban were not at all wiped out despite overwhelming air AND ground attack. In fact, their numbers now are noticeably higher than when the campaign against them began.... you just don't hear about it anymore. And in Iraq, where after the US left the factions filled in the void which lead to even more violence which continues to this day.

In this case, you're fighting an even more radical movement, with fighters who are even more committed to the cause. Like any other radical movement, they can mix with the public and hide in places you simply can't get to them. They have no problem with hanging out until the coast is clear. Meanwhile, coalition forces are pouring money into maintaining military buildup in the region.

In addition to that, Canada and other coalition countries have now become even more of a target for terrorism than we would have been had we just kept our nose out of it.

But why would we do that? ISIS is a horrible entity who does unfathomable things to people. The world needs to stand up against people like this. Maybe. But then, what did developed nations do to combat ethnic cleansing in Sudan since the early 2000's, where half a million of died and 2 million have lost their homes? How about the near useless force developed nations provided in Rwanda where a million lost their lives?

The fact is that as horrible as these situations are, genocide and wars have been going on for thousands of years. It's hard enough to intervene as a peacekeeping force (which I agree with), let alone launching offensive military attacks which aren't and will not work. The US-led coalition is really doing themselves a disservice, considering they want Assad out anyway.

I personally believe we are best off leaving the fighting to those who have a direct interest in the region... like Russia and Arab nations. If concerns over terrorism here in Canada are so high, I'd rather see an increase of funding instead going into stopping home grown terrorism and ensuring radicals are not entering the country. I'd also like to see a portion of the funding going towards direct humanitarian aid. I don't want to see ANY funding into offensive strikes which don't work. Yet another topic Harper and I don't see eye-to-eye on. Here's an interesting article on the Liberal position. (I even agree with the NDP more for their position as well.)

https://www.liberal.ca/speech-justin-trudeau-hoc-2015-on-extending-the-combat-mission-in-iraq-and-expanding-into-syria/

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Haven't they been hitting everything BUT ISIS? That's what every other country and every major news outlet is reporting anyway.

They went there to protect their interests mostly imo, the only Mediterranean base they have is in Tartus which has been there since the 70s iirc. Only just yesterday they started directing operations against IS.

Of course looking like they want to help the world fight against IS looks good overall but their allegiance is to Assad, hence the first round attacks on the rebels primarily.

Iraq's government also has just expressed interest in the Russians helping them fight IS in their country, basically saying to the US, thnx but you're doing a shitty job.

edit: Toma already said most of this, nvm

[Darell_n]

How many residents haven't left as refuges? They should have a deadline after which the coalition will kill everything on the ground that is human. After a year they can give it back to the refuges as clean land.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Darell_n
How many residents haven't left as refuges? They should have a deadline after which the coalition will kill everything on the ground that is human. After a year they can give it back to the refuges as clean land.

Good luck with that. I see so many issues:

- Not everyone will be willing to leave their homes. Those that don't will be killed... and regardless of whether that was their choice or not, that would be an impossibly huge black eye for the coalition. It just wouldn't happen.
- Once an area is "cleaned", who is going to ensure it remains that way? The Syrian military can't get the job done as it is, so you're looking for coalition to put boots on the ground there. Highly unlikely.
- By cleaning in your scenario, it basically means demolishing what little is left. Which means the land the Syrians come back to will have to be completely rebuilt. It's in rough shape right now, no doubt, but asking everyone to rebuild puts the blame on us.
- You aren't possibly going to be able to kill everyone from the air. Again, totally clearing an area will require combat troops on the ground.

There are a few other reasons I don't think it would work... but the above is enough I think. But to answer your question, I believe about 9 million have left, with a population of 22 million total.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Maybe Russia's involvement is for the best. They are far less likely to GAF about things like rules of engagement and such, against people who know these rules and use them to their advantage with women, children, etc. Downside is probably more collateral damage, but it might be more effective in the end.

[01RedDX]

.

[revelations]

Originally posted by 01RedDX

+1

Currently all sources agree that the Russians are building up a sizable ground force battalion.



LOL

Would love to see your source for that.

Must be why IAF planes used to regularly bomb terrorists and Hezbollah weapons convoys on the ground in Syria AND buzzed Assad's palace for good measure, on a regular basis.

The Syrians USED to have a very good setup. Not for a while.....

In 2009 IAF bombed a new nuclear facility in Syria with the help of American electronic warfare aircraft. Essentially telling the Syrian radars that nothing was there.
Fact is stranger than fiction sometimes.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orchard

[killramos]

So all these people were going to be bombed anyways. I would much rather see the russians paying the bill for all the bombs than us :dunno:

[nzwasp]

Ive been enjoying the Russian military videos posting their missile strikes and other videos in HD for all the world to see.

[Nitro5]

Fly a SU-25T for free

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/world/

[Toma]

Russia has about 5x the credibility of Nato, and specifically, America.

The war needs to be stopped. Period. Overthrowing a wildly popular leader and supporting ISIS is such a stupid mandate, even Germany told the US to fuck off with that noise.

[Toma]

dp

[01RedDX]

.

[speedog]

Originally posted by killramos
So all these people were going to be bombed anyways. I would much rather see the russians paying the bill for all the bombs than us :dunno:
Canadian money paid for the bombs?

[killramos]

Originally posted by speedog

Canadian money paid for the bombs?

Who do you think pays the bill when the RCAF is bombing someone?

The queen?

:rofl:

[Toma]

Yup, what did Canada fuck up a few weeks ago.... wasnt it like 19 civilians they slaughtered "by accident"?

[revelations]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Not unprecedented...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

Definitely - but the operation from 2007 was on a whole different level of ECM - active suppression of one of the worlds most heavily monitored skies using computer code.

Operation Opera was mostly low level radar avoidance, however the end result was the same - the destruction of a nuclear plant.

[Toma]

My bad, it was 27 the Pentahin said Canada killed.

[ExtraSlow]

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/130624673286/president-obama-wizard-or-failure ( http://blog.dilbert.com/post/130624673286/president-obama-wizard-or-failure)
pretty clear summary of how Russia is saving the USA.

[revelations]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/130624673286/president-obama-wizard-or-failure ( http://blog.dilbert.com/post/130624673286/president-obama-wizard-or-failure)
pretty clear summary of how Russia is saving the USA.

Haha, makes total sense - at least from a quick read.

Meanwhile, Bush & co. would have spend another trillion $$ ..... to make their buddies rich ?

[revelations]

Some recent thoughts from Putin directly about ISIS ... mercenaries working for the highest bidder?

VbZDyr2LkdI

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by Nitro5
Fly a SU-25T for free

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/world/

I played that heavily for quite awhile, only managed to somehow learn how to take off, using the FLIR and actually locking onto targets, well forget that and the 500page tutorial PDF :rofl:


Originally posted by nzwasp
Ive been enjoying the Russian military videos posting their missile strikes and other videos in HD for all the world to see.

This is exactly it too, launching a good handful of multi million dollar cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea 1500kms away is really just trying to show the world they have the ability to do what the coalition usually does.

[Toma]

Originally posted by n1zm0


I played that heavily for quite awhile, only managed to somehow learn how to take off, using the FLIR and actually locking onto targets, well forget that and the 500page tutorial PDF :rofl:



This is exactly it too, launching a good handful of multi million dollar cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea 1500kms away is really just trying to show the world they have the ability to do what the coalition usually does.

How many Hospitals, and Doctors Without Borders, and UN workers have the Soviets bombed "by accident" in this conflict?

[Thomas Gabriel]

Originally posted by revelations
Some recent thoughts from Putin directly about ISIS ... mercenaries working for the highest bidder?

VbZDyr2LkdI

That is so metal gear.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by Toma
How many Hospitals, and Doctors Without Borders, and UN workers have the Soviets bombed "by accident" in this conflict?

Technically none, since the Soviets haven't existed for 24 years. :poosie:

But anyways my statement isn't derogatory at all, they're allowed to release combat footage as propaganda, as news, as proof that they're actually doing something. Just as any NATO country would put up Youtube videos of their operations.

But on a side note, the last significant war the Soviets fought in (their 'Vietnam War' as it's called), they weren't exactly very accurate in hitting their targets or accomplishing their end objective either, the millions of killed and wounded civilians from that conflict weren't just from the Mujahideen going around indiscriminately killing that many people. 10 million landmines with Cyrillic writing on them didn't just lay themselves.

[codetrap]

.

[Toma]

Originally posted by n1zm0




But on a side note, the last significant war the Soviets fought in....

Strange, considering they are surround by terrorists for real, and not Americas half way around the world imaginary boogie men.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Toma
Russia has about 5x the credibility of Nato, and specifically, America.

:rofl: So all those Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine really are just "volunteers on leave from the Russian Army?"

Russia's credibility is no better than NATO.


Originally posted by Toma
How many Hospitals, and Doctors Without Borders, and UN workers have the Soviets bombed "by accident" in this conflict?
You don't seriously think the CRUISE MISSILES they launched at Raqqa were accurate enough to avoid collateral damage, do you??

[Toma]

Originally posted by Toma


How many Hospitals, and Doctors Without Borders, and UN workers have the Soviets bombed "by accident" in this conflict?


Originally posted by Feruk


You don't seriously think the CRUISE MISSILES they launched at Raqqa were accurate enough to avoid collateral damage, do you??

Lets try again.

[LOLzilla]

Originally posted by Feruk

You don't seriously think the CRUISE MISSILES they launched at Raqqa were accurate enough to avoid collateral damage, do you??

Russia hit a civilian jet liner with 100% accuracy. I'm sure their cruise missiles are just as accurate. :dunno:

[Toma]

Originally posted by LOLzilla


Russia hit a civilian jet liner with 100% accuracy. I'm sure their cruise missiles are just as accurate. :dunno:


That was the new Ukraine government.

[max_boost]

What has America done? Let's see what mother Russia can do now. Go Putin!

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Toma
Lets try again.
Dude, they've been at it less than a week, and the place the cruise missiles hit has absolutely no Western staff or reporters. Give them time. The Russians will get their collateral damage count up pretty quick I'm sure.

Anyway, you avoided both questions...

[Toma]

What's the point of questions, when YOU or anyone doesn't even know the answers.

So you are talking what iffs, and ass umptions, versus a proven and recent track record of lies, deceit, and "bad aim".

[Toma]

Originally posted by max_boost
What has America done? Let's see what mother Russia can do now. Go Putin!

Agreed. America fucks shit up, creates Bin Laden's Al Quada, creates ISIS, promotes instability, supports Saudi and other dictators when it suits them, engages in active meddling and overthrows in sovereign nations...

Versus Putin. The man that gets the job done.

[LOLzilla]

Originally posted by Toma



That was the new Ukraine government.

:rolleyes:

[revelations]

Originally posted by codetrap
Man, Putin is pretty well spoken.

Putin is very eloquent in his assertions here (and others) but dont let that fool you for a second that he isnt a very cunning former KGB operative. Charms are part of the trade.

[eblend]

Originally posted by LOLzilla


Russia hit a civilian jet liner with 100% accuracy. I'm sure their cruise missiles are just as accurate. :dunno:

I presume you are talking about the one over Ukraine...maybe Russia backed rebels, but not Russia itself, at least not this time around. They have shot a few our of the sky back in the day for reals, but so have the Americans.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by Toma
Versus Putin. The man that gets the job done.

This statement is pretty justified too, squashes 2 back-to-back civil wars on his southern homefront early in his presidency, takes Crimea with the consequences being more or less just sanctions. I think the world is just going to have to wait to see what happens.

This kind of explains his basic agenda:

uDF-JnnmwUM

I think finally the Syrian military has a significant, willing and professionally-trained ally to coordinate a proper push on the ground to take back a lot of its country, something that wasn't happening with NATO and a collaboration that would never happen nonetheless since they want to see Assad gone anyways.

The rebels are the closest target in terms of the relative AO in which the government can start pushing out from (western and NW Syria) as well as being a significant political threat to the government if they manage to get any stronger, IS poses no political threat to the regime so it's not a priority at the moment. The world is going to expect significant results from all this though I'm guessing.

This is still somewhat of an interesting viewpoint too, totally believable in terms of strategy, that Assad wants to squash the rebellion before taking on IS, some very true statements made here:



In each raid, there were three Russian Mig-31 jets. That’s our main arms depot, where we supply all our units. At the same exact time—5:30 p.m.—ISIS sent a car bomb against us in Deir Jemal, against our base. This is about 130 kilometers away from Mansoura.” An earlier ISIS attack against a Suqour al-Jabal frontline position, he added, occurred in Ehres, also in western Aleppo, at around 3 o'clock. But ISIS locations in the province, no doubt equally visible from the air, were left unscathed by the Russians.

In the last week, less than 10% of all Russian missiles (and now ship-borne cruise missiles) has struck ISIS or al-Qaeda-affiliated targets, according to the U.S. State Department. What is a consensus view among analysts is that ISIS clearly is not Putin’s quarry in Syria, at least not yet, because he’s too busy killing the anti-Assad rebels supported and armed by the Central Intelligence Agency. U.S. officials have acknowledged as much.

But that Moscow might actually be objectively helping ISIS defeat a common enemy by acting as air support for the jihadists’ ground assaults against U.S. proxies is less well understood, even though it fits with predictions warning that Putin’s adventure in the Levant was never going to be counterterrorist in nature.

Rather, this Russian adventure was designed to fortify a faltering client regime, possibly help it regain lost territory, and above all eliminate any credible threat to its legitimacy or long-term rule which, for the moment, ISIS does not pose.

“It’s clear that Russia’s strategy in Syria is to make the conflict binary by giving Syrians only two choices: Assad or ISIS,” said John Schindler, a former U.S. intelligence analyst and occasional Daily Beast contributor. “Attacks on the FSA, while encouraging defections to the regime, are a key component of how Russia operationalizes its strategy for Syria. Russia has excellent intelligence on Syria, especially from signals intelligence, and is using this to target FSA and others in a manner that the U.S. government can do little about now. Joint operations with ISIS are to be expected, some with intent, some by default, and should not surprise given the extent of regime intelligence penetration of [ISIS].”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/08/russia-s-giving-isis-an-air-force.html


Just thought about it too, now that Russia is directly and publicly involved with hitting IS, will that spark a rebirth in Northern Caucasus jihadism again? There supposedly was a $10k-$13k bounty offered for the capture of any Russian military personel in Syria apparently, with reports that a number of Chechnyan fighters were on the move to the Government held areas recently.

Edit: Someone was talking about Russian weapons inaccuracies? speak of the devil I guess:




Washington (CNN)—A number of cruise missiles launched from a Russian ship and aimed at targets in Syria have crashed in Iran, two U.S. officials told CNN Thursday.

Monitoring by U.S. military and intelligence assets has concluded that at least four missiles crashed as they flew over Iran. One official said there may be casualties, but another official said this is not yet known.

It's unclear where in Iran the missiles landed. The Russian ships have been positioned in the south Caspian Sea, meaning the likely flight path for missiles into Syria would cross over both Iran and Iraq.

The Russians have been firing a relatively new cruise missile called "Kaliber," using it for the first time in combat.

Iran's semi-official FARS news agency, however, said that neither Russian nor Iranian authorities have confirmed the U.S. officials' information at this point.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/08/politics/russian-missiles-syria-landed-iran/

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by LOLzilla
Russia hit a civilian jet liner with 100% accuracy. I'm sure their cruise missiles are just as accurate. :dunno:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-conflict-russian-cruise-missiles-crash-in-iran-a6686856.html

[revelations]

^ good points in that video. Putin smokescreen, etc.

Nothing in international politics is simple.

[Mitsu3000gt]

They missed their target by an entire country :rofl:

[Toma]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
They missed their target by an entire country :rofl:

Right.... "At least four missiles fell as they flew over Iran, two US officials said citing military and intelligence information. ". Who, what sources?

Like they said the Russians killed civilians. before they actually fired a shot. lol

[Nitro5]

Yup, pin-point accurate cruise missiles

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/world/middleeast/russian-missiles-aimed-at-syria-crashed-in-iran-us-officials-say.html?_r=1

[Toma]

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss military intelligence.

and

Four cruise missiles in a barrage of 26 fired by Russia from warships in the Caspian Sea at targets in Syria crashed in a rural area of northern Iran, senior United States officials said on Thursday. Russian and Iranian officials dismissed the claim as nonsense.

lol.

hmmmm. ;)

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Toma]

Yeah?? The Russians bombed a Hospital? A UN Facilty? A radio station?

Links?

[Nitro5]

Toma, replace Russia with USA and you would be creating a whole new thread to mock them over it.

[eblend]

So much butt hurt from the Americans and NATO. Don't they realize that constantly spewing shit without any proof only makes them look silly? They will say anything to undermine what Russia is doing, to defend their own image. Russiaphobia is strong.....because if it isn't USA, it's wrong..

[Toma]

Originally posted by Nitro5
Toma, replace Russia with USA and you would be creating a whole new thread to mock them over it.

No, I would wait for evidence, video, proof, confirmation from the UN, Doctors without borders, etc...

Pretty good range on those missiles though!

[Toma]

lol... like this....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a2e_1410219351

[01RedDX]

.

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by Toma


No, I would wait for evidence, video, proof, confirmation from the UN, Doctors without borders, etc...

Pretty good range on those missiles though!


Like waiting for the actual text from the TPP to be released before making claims on its content?

[Toma]

Originally posted by Nitro5



Like waiting for the actual text from the TPP to be released before making claims on its content?

Yup. secret deal, selling out Canada. Enough info was leaked by wikileaks to demonstrate its evil.