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View Full Version : Was the Conservative government actually hindering pipeline development?



sxtasy
10-23-2015, 01:16 PM
I don't want this discussion to turn into wether or not climate change is real or not. I think it's mostly an irrelevant discussion, you don't have to look far to see that this is a hot button topic within our biggest trading partner (just watch the most recent leaders debate in the US).

I bring this up after an article I read:

http://globalnews.ca/news/2293283/ex-pipeline-exec-urges-stronger-climate-action/


CALGARY – A retired executive with pipeline builder TransCanada Corp. believes the long-stalled Keystone XL project can still be salvaged — if incoming Liberal prime minister Justin Trudeau acts swiftly on climate change.

Putting a price on carbon emissions is the last option Canada has available to persuade U.S. President Barack Obama to approve the controversial cross-border oilsands pipeline, said Dennis McConaghy, who left TransCanada last year.


He said it’s been “enormously frustrating” to see Keystone XL stuck in limbo more than seven years after it was first proposed and feels it has not been dealt with fairly in the U.S. regulatory process.

“Carbon pricing was the last alternative at accommodation that could have been tried. It’s still available, perhaps, for our new prime minister,” McConaghy said from London, Ont., where he’s a visiting fellow at Western University’s Ivey Business School.

“I would hope that (Trudeau) would quickly engage with the president on that point. Because there’s no pipeline that would be more valuable to Canada than XL.”

McConaghy’s role at TransCanada was to develop new pipeline opportunities rather than oversee the nitty-gritty of obtaining permits and approvals.

He stressed that he was sharing his personal views, not those of his former employer.

Trudeau has expressed support for Keystone XL, the US$8-billion proposal that would enable 830,000 barrels a day of mostly oilsands crude to flow to the lucrative U.S. Gulf Coast market. During the campaign, Trudeau slammed the Conservatives’ handling of the file.

In a recent blog post for the Niskanen Center, a libertarian think-tank, McConaghy said outgoing Conservative prime minister Stephen Harper showed an “almost pathological resistance to carbon pricing” — even if it meant smoothing the way for Keystone XL.

“Such logic was beyond Harper,” he wrote.

“The Keystone XL pipeline project might have been salvaged if Harper had been more willing to see carbon pricing as a means to address environmental concerns. The failure to pursue approval of the pipeline through carbon pricing is one of the great missed opportunities of Harper’s last term as prime minister.”

Obama has made it clear he will not allow Keystone XL to be built if it worsens climate change.

McConaghy said it does not appear that a string of State Department environmental reviews have been enough to convince Obama that the pipeline is environmentally benign.

In the interview, McConaghy preferred not to dwell on Harper’s missteps and focus instead on what can be done with a Liberal majority government in Ottawa.

“I would hope our Canadian prime minister would be proactive in trying to at least say to the president: ‘before you decide anything on this, talk to me.'”

Some of the biggest oilsands operators, including Suncor Energy, Cenovus Energy and Shell have spoken out in favour of a carbon tax — so long doesn’t single out energy producers.

But so far the companies whose pipelines carry oilsands crude to market — like TransCanada — have not said much publicly on that score.

“We support efforts that will continue to demonstrate that Keystone XL meets the president’s stated climate test that it won’t significantly exacerbate GHG (greenhouse gas) emissions,” said TransCanada spokesman Mark Cooper.

“Five reports since 2010 and 17,000 pages of study by the U.S. State Department Keystone XL will not significantly impact the environment or the climate.”

Adam Scott, with Environmental Defence, said it’s “far too late,” adding that Keystone XL is “dead in the water.”

“Canada’s new prime minister needs to work with the U.S. to address climate change, not chase more fossil fuel infrastructure,” he said.


It sounds to me like energy producers are concerned about the environmental image we have on the world stage and seem to support a carbon tax in order to show that Canada is a responsible developer. Thoughts?

M.alex
10-23-2015, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by sxtasy


It sounds to me like energy producers are concerned about the environmental image we have on the world stage and seem to support a carbon tax in order to show that Canada is a responsible developer. Thoughts?

We're already responsible; anybody who doesn't think so should go eat a dick. Why should we incur higher costs when countries like China account for the majority of pollution and do nothing.

Buster
10-23-2015, 01:47 PM
People I know that are very integrated in the regulatory environment in both Canada and the US were telling me just a few days ago that this is exactly the situation. Canada is behind on this stuff and the shop may have already sailed.

We could have essentially horse traded a carbon policy with a keystone approval but Harper refused to do it. It's now probably too late.

g-m
10-23-2015, 01:50 PM
Agree with m Alex

revelations
10-23-2015, 02:02 PM
All in all, the NDP might actually HELP with this specific image issue - outside AB - not sure about the rest of their policy though ..... :rofl:

sxtasy
10-23-2015, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by M.alex


We're already responsible; anybody who doesn't think so should go eat a dick. Why should we incur higher costs when countries like China account for the majority of pollution and do nothing.
You are missing the point entirely. While I may agree that we are responsible, we are failing to send the message. That's what this article is about.

Buster
10-23-2015, 02:12 PM
Like it or not Alberta and Canada have massively fucked up the pr situation here.

Now we will likely have to accept a much worse deal than we could have gotten five years ago.

killramos
10-23-2015, 02:15 PM
I would rather we never have the pipeline than a carbon tax regime. Just another punitive transfer tax to the east who's industries "won't count" because of "save our union jerbsssss".

:dunno:

Mixalot27
10-23-2015, 02:32 PM
Sustainability marketing seems to be the trend now and into the future. Customers want to purchase products that they feel are environmentally responsible. However the average customer has very little knowledge of the true environmental situation or issues. This provides huge opportunities for sustainability marketing, often while spending little or even no additional money and making the customer feel better about their purchase.

Look at A&W's advertising campaign over the last couple years. They have really been concentrating their marketing efforts on sustainability and profits have surged as a result. Many of their advertising claims such as no added hormones, are actually Canadian legal standards for meats anyway, so A&W is doing nothing more than anyone else other than marketing. New reduced packaging offers reduced costs while being able to advertise environmental benefits.

Not all sustainability changes and marketing efforts have to increase costs. Many can actually reduce costs while at the same time leading to an improved corporate image and in turn higher profits. The new liberal government certainly has many opportunities to pursue more effective strategies in this area. I'm not sure that carbon pricing is the right strategy though.

JRSC00LUDE
10-23-2015, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Mixalot27
Look at A&W's advertising campaign over the last couple years. They have really been concentrating their marketing efforts on sustainability and profits have surged as a result. Many of their advertising claims such as no added hormones, are actually Canadian legal standards for meats anyway, so A&W is doing nothing more than anyone else other marketing.

I'm an odd person who can be irritated by certain things, I entirely quit going to A&W because of those ads....

A790
10-23-2015, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by M.alex


We're already responsible; anybody who doesn't think so should go eat a dick. Why should we incur higher costs when countries like China account for the majority of pollution and do nothing.



Originally posted by g-m
Agree with m Alex
With respect to you guys, nobody is arguing otherwise. We know that we are environmentally responsible. However, perception is reality, and the perception among most people outside Alberta is that the oil sands are an environmental disaster. We can flame Matt Damon all we want when he goes running his mouth about Fort Mac, but consider this: he was never talking to you, he is talking to the millions that don't live here and view him as an influencer.

The fact is that we can choose to react emotionally and defensively, such as what you two are currently doing, or we could react a little more diplomatically and see if we can't shift perceptions a bit in order to get the deal put through.

For the record, you guys have a perfectly valid point in a lot of respects. Unfortunately, the people that can pull the trigger on this thing don't see it that way... so from my point of view, let's play ball and help them see it that way.

We only stand to benefit at this point.

Mixalot27
10-23-2015, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


I'm an odd person who can be irritated by certain things, I entirely quit going to A&W because of those ads....

I actually get takeout less often from there also due the new packaging not keeping my burger warm. However apparently you and I are in the minority. It can be a fine line to walk sometimes with marketing.

killramos
10-23-2015, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


I'm an odd person who can be irritated by certain things, I entirely quit going to A&W because of those ads....

I outright refuse to even consider stepping foot in Spence Diamonds for a similar reason.

But I digress...

Canmorite
10-23-2015, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by M.alex


We're already responsible; anybody who doesn't think so should go eat a dick. Why should we incur higher costs when countries like China account for the majority of pollution and do nothing.

The 'do nothing approach because someone else isn't doing it' is awful and won't work long-term. Canada has to get realistic about pricing carbon and join the rest of the (progressive) world.

Xtrema
10-23-2015, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by M.alex


We're already responsible; anybody who doesn't think so should go eat a dick. Why should we incur higher costs when countries like China account for the majority of pollution and do nothing.

Because that's the price of admission for a Democrat president to say yes.

True be told, Sander already changed the landscape of the Dem race and force Hilary to say no to XL. So the only time this will be sign off is after Hilary won the presidency and before she takes office. Or god forbid a republican wins.


Originally posted by killramos
I would rather we never have the pipeline than a carbon tax regime. Just another punitive transfer tax to the east who's industries "won't count" because of "save our union jerbsssss".

:dunno:

I'll pay whatever to get it out of here before they become worthless.

msommers
10-23-2015, 03:05 PM
If the Conservative government was genuinely a major factor for the Keystone not being developed, I don't know if I could handle that many lulz.

Xtrema
10-23-2015, 03:09 PM
BTW just so you know why there may be more pipelines under Liberal than Conservatives.....

http://www.canadianprogressiveworld.com/2015/10/16/lobbying-scandal-trudeaus-disgraced-ex-campaign-co-chair-was-paid-by-transcanada/

Will see if this TCPL plant works out.

Buster
10-23-2015, 03:17 PM
Trudeau may have a better chance, all else equal, to getting some of these things done than Harper did.

This is not because of Trudeau or Harper, but rather the stupidity of the average progressive voter.

CanmoreOrLess
10-23-2015, 03:27 PM
Truth will always lose out to perception. An article I read last week was of the opinion the USA did not need Canadian oil for various reasons. I'm not sure who I believe anymore. I find it amusing how no one on Beyond voted for the NDP in 2015 and no one voted for Harper ever. Ballers are entertaining for certain.

01RedDX
10-23-2015, 03:27 PM
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msommers
10-23-2015, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess
Truth will always lose out to perception. An article I read last week was of the opinion the USA did not need Canadian oil for various reasons. I'm not sure who I believe anymore. I find it amusing how no one on Beyond voted for the NDP in 2015 and no one voted for Harper ever. Ballers are entertaining for certain.

Yeah it's a valid point. I keep hearing that the US will be completely self-reliant by like 2030 or something.

Xtrema
10-23-2015, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess
Truth will always lose out to perception. An article I read last week was of the opinion the USA did not need Canadian oil for various reasons. I'm not sure who I believe anymore. I find it amusing how no one on Beyond voted for the NDP in 2015 and no one voted for Harper ever. Ballers are entertaining for certain.

In reality, USA doesn't need our oil. They only need it because US companies invested in our resources and wants to capitalize on them.

Not in this field so don't quote me, I'm sure the XL pipeline may end up carrying some US oil to the gulf coast too.

CanmoreOrLess
10-23-2015, 04:06 PM
Sometimes I feel like we in Alberta are living on very borrowed time with some rather old ideas and the rest of the world has moved on. Everyone is so invested in the outcome that they cannot make changes in direction. People are not even willing to consider the possibility we need to change course. I don't work in the oil industry, but I do need the oil industry. Our future depends on getting all this figured out.

kertejud2
10-23-2015, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess
Sometimes I feel like we in Alberta are living on very borrowed time with some rather old ideas and the rest of the world has moved on. Everyone is so invested in the outcome that they cannot make changes in direction. People are not even willing to consider the possibility we need to change course.

This is basically what the definition of a conservative is.

Cos
11-04-2015, 08:43 PM
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