NDP Bill 6

[phreezee]

Not that I know the first thing about farming, but the farmers seem upset. I loves me some NDP hate.

http://wpmedia.edmontonjournal.com/2015/11/uploaded-by-jodie-sinnema-email-jsinnemaedmontonjourna5.jpeg

http://www.producer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/MPM112715_farm-rally-630x315.jpg

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/1000-alberta-farmers-ranchers-call-on-government-to-kill-proposed-farm-safety-legislation

[cosmok]

Hutterite economics would go right out the window

[SKR]

Farming used to be a nice thing where you could go do your own shit by yourself and not be bothered by anyone. It's too bad there are people who can't live without a rigid set of rules and have to force that onto everyone else.

[Gman.45]

Farmers seem upset - like the 2000 of them that shut down highway 2 south of Calgary? Just wait until they get REALLY upset, and more importantly, organized.

It'll get ugly, and rightfully so. Nothing other than a typical left wing social engineering/labor rights ploy under the guise of "work place safety". I haven't spoken to one farmer that is in favor of any aspects of the bill, and even those who are NOT farmers seem to agree it's being pushed through haphazardly.

[FraserB]

Say goodbye to all public access to farmland. It will either be removed through the bill or by pissed farmers not allowing access for activities.

When this is jammed through in a month, it will be more than just the farmers who are pissed off.

[94CoRd]

Originally posted by FraserB
Say goodbye to all public access to farmland. It will either be removed through the bill or by pissed farmers not allowing access for activities.

When this is jammed through in a month, it will be more than just the farmers who are pissed off.

Had a buddy ask a farmer for permission to hunt on his land. Long story short, farmer said the exact same thing. Bill 6 will mean too many wcb hoops to go through and will just say no more hunting / access.

[Gman.45]

Rgr that FraserB.

Bill 6 doesn't just affect farmers & Ranchers but the urban population as well. Hunting, quading, skidooing, horseback riding, 4-H, helping at brandings....etc as per the new bill 6 OH & S and WCB regulations they will not permit anyone on farm land for recreational purposes.

What a great time it would be for the Federal Liberals to enact new gun legislation. Rural Alberta would go berserk, and berserk is what we need right now to start some pushback vs all the insanity as of late.

[Stuart]

I'm split on this. On one side I hate over regulation but having farmers in my family I know that they often do things that are downright unsafe when there is a safer alternative that would require little additional work. At a certain point people need to be protected from themselves, but is this the time? I don't know for sure but I do know the government will screw it up. I get the feeling that some common sense rules could have been implemented over the past decades that may have kept it from getting to this point.

[vengie]

Originally posted by Stuart
I'm split on this. On one side I hate over regulation but having farmers in my family I know that they often do things that are downright unsafe when there is a safer alternative that would require little additional work. At a certain point people need to be protected from themselves, but is this the time? I don't know for sure but I do know the government will screw it up. I get the feeling that some common sense rules could have been implemented over the past decades that may have kept it from getting to this point.

Isn't that also called "Natural Selection"? If you are dumb enough to stick your hand into a combine because a stick has jammed the blades, yet the machine is still running and you haven't taken the steps to ensure the blade will not chop off your arm, then no amount of government regulation will keep you safe.

[suntan]

Looks like they're clarifying some of the legislation.

[Stuart]

Originally posted by vengie


Isn't that also called "Natural Selection"? If you are dumb enough to stick your hand into a combine because a stick has jammed the blades, yet the machine is still running and you haven't taken the steps to ensure the blade will not chop off your arm, then no amount of government regulation will keep you safe.

You and I are required to wear seatbelts, can't buy lawndarts, can't drink while rafting on the river, etc for this very reason. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Gman.45
Farmers seem upset - like the 2000 of them that shut down highway 2 south of Calgary? Just wait until they get REALLY upset, and more importantly, organized.

It'll get ugly, and rightfully so. Nothing other than a typical left wing social engineering/labor rights ploy under the guise of "work place safety". I haven't spoken to one farmer that is in favor of any aspects of the bill, and even those who are NOT farmers seem to agree it's being pushed through haphazardly.

The last time that farmers got upset enough to organize they created the CCF, so they should tread carefully.

[btimbit]

Absolutely against this. This is ridiculous and I hope it doesn't get rammed through

[04Terminator]

This only brings Alberta labor laws inline with the rest of Canada.

It specifically targets commercial ventures, and not the family farm.

It simply extends current Alberta labor and safety standards (like hours, minimum wage, overtime, the right to refuse dangerous work), that apply to every other commercial business.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[msommers]

Originally posted by 04Terminator
This only brings Alberta labor laws inline with the rest of Canada.

It specifically targets commercial ventures, and not the family farm.

It simply extends current Alberta labor and safety standards (like hours, minimum wage, overtime, the right to refuse dangerous work), that apply to every other commercial business.

Sask has these same rules?

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 04Terminator
It specifically targets commercial ventures, and not the family farm.


My understanding is it targets any "for profit" farming operation? Aren't most "family farms" operated with the goal of generating a profit, and therefore targeted by this bill?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Gman.45
Rgr that FraserB.

Bill 6 doesn't just affect farmers & Ranchers but the urban population as well. Hunting, quading, skidooing, horseback riding, 4-H, helping at brandings....etc as per the new bill 6 OH & S and WCB regulations they will not permit anyone on farm land for recreational purposes.

What a great time it would be for the Federal Liberals to enact new gun legislation. Rural Alberta would go berserk, and berserk is what we need right now to start some pushback vs all the insanity as of late.
Have you actually read the entire Bill? Do you know exactly what is affected by WCB and OH&S?
Most of the whining and crying are farmers who get their facts straight out of Facebook or their neighbours' ramblings. :rolleyes:

Things like "Now I can't have ppl hunt on my land without signing a waiver, getting safety training..wahh wahh wahh". All BS!

God...the rest of Canada has been like this for years. I don't see Saskatchewan family farms closing down. I don't see Manitobians losing their shit. Ontario and BC farms seem to handle it no problem! :dunno: Alberta is the ONLY province without saftey standards for farming. So if you went to work for some farmer, and broke your ankle on his farm, you'd be shit outta luck.

All it means is that farmers will have to carry WCB for any paid worker. And have safety standards met. The premiums are less than 3% of their wages. And the owners don't even have to have WCB coverage for themselves.
Every other business and industry has to pay this...why should Alberta farmers feel they should be the only group to be exempt?

Man, the whining and crying over at Alberta Outdoorsmen has been going on for days...you'd think the entire farming economy is going to collapse.

Too many people have no idea how it will even affect them and just jump on the mob mentality band wagon.

[SKR]

Originally posted by msommers


Sask has these same rules?

Not as far as I know. But a lot of the problem is that nobody actually knows what the bill actually is, just what it could be.

Edit: it looks like most of the farm land in Alberta, just looking at a map, most of the ridings went Wildrose. So why the NDP thinks they need to step in and fix things for people that didn't want them is beyond me.

[FraserB]

They only said they would admend the bill after they got called on it.

At the very, very least they should have consulted with farmers and not just whipped up a quickie bill and try to shove it through in a month or so.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by msommers


Sask has these same rules?

Well nobody really has the same rules, but while it seems most provinces simply ignore what laws they have, Alberta was unique in not having any at all:

Child labour or just chores? Debate rages after Saskatchewan bans kids from working on family farm

“So we really limit what people who are under 12 can do. The big exception tends to be farming. In Alberta, for example, there are no rules. And in other provinces, governments tend to be reluctant to enforce rules, particularly on small farms.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/debate-rages-after-saskatchewan-bans-kids-from-working-on-family-farm

So is farm child labour not really a problem?

There is a small but active lobby in Canada that says yes. A decade ago this September, Darlene Dunlop and husband Eric founded the Farmworkers Union of Alberta partly due to what they perceived to be child exploitation. “I found myself working with 8, 9 and 10-year-old paid labourers, not farmers children.” Many of them were not middle-class white children like Emma and Kate Covlin, she said, but Mennonite Mexican children who work alongside or even apart from their parents. “One could argue ‘yes, government goes too far,’” she said in response to public outcry over the Cool Springs Ranch order. “But in Alberta we have no regulations. That’s too far.”

According to Saskatchewan's laws kids can work, but:

"If the farming operation was engaged, for example, in processing of meat, fish or poultry, that wouldn't be permitted if the young person was a 'worker' as defined by our legislation," said Bender.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/saskatchewan-farmers-cry-foul-over-child-labour-investigation-1.2729781


Alberta is also unique in not having the right to refuse unsafe work apply to farming:

Unlike other provinces, farm workers in Alberta are currently exempt from occupational health and safety laws and have no right to refuse unsafe work.

In Saskatchewan, by contrast, employers are required to provide safe working environments and must ensure their workers know they have the right to refuse what they perceive to be unsafe work.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bill-6-questions-answered-alberta-farm-safety-1.3345283

[C_Dave45]

^^ Well said. Good post.


Originally posted by SKR


Not as far as I know. But a lot of the problem is that nobody actually knows what the bill actually is, just what it could be.

Edit: it looks like most of the farm land in Alberta, just looking at a map, most of the ridings went Wildrose. So why the NDP thinks they need to step in and fix things for people that didn't want them is beyond me.

Yes they do. The entire country has the same legislation. Alberta is the only province that doesn't.

[01RedDX]

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[SKR]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
Yes they do. The entire country has the same legislation. Alberta is the only province that doesn't.

The only thing I could find is that there is no right to refuse unsafe work, no prohibition on kids under 16 to operate motorized equipment, handle chemicals or work in processing plants, no mandatory minimum wage, and no requirement to have WCB coverage in Alberta. (Edit: these are the things that Bill 6 will change in Alberta.) There is no requirement for farm employers to have WCB coverage in Saskatchewan, and in Manitoba it's only required for non-family members. Farm laborers are exempt from minimum wage in Saskatchewan, and family members are exempt in Manitoba. So it's not the same, and that's just what I've been able to find. I can't find anything that clearly says what Bill 6 will change.

Now with the amendments maybe it will be the same, but there was no plan for amendments until after the protests.

[msommers]

Originally posted by kertejud2

snip

Did not know that, thanks!

[nzwasp]

I wonder if this bill came about because those kids died falling into the grain truck a few months ago...

[lasimmon]

The big issue is that for the Alberta bill it stretches to family farms. So no more help from family, kids, or neighbors without paying the, abiding by hour rules, and having proper coverage.

They do say they are reviewing it though and might change it to exclude family farms, but time will tell.

[16hypen3sp]

It's about the NDP helping out their union pals again. UFCW is praising Bill 6 because it allows farm workers to unionize. Says so right on their website. That's a lot of people that can suddenly unionize.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt over it but Red Deer - South MLA Barb Miller is a steward and directly involved with UFCW.

UFCW wants more in dues.

[killramos]

read some posts on social media today about how there is some text hidden in this bill that would prevent farmers from objecting to Solar and wind farms on or around their land. Similar to the mess they have in Onterrible.

Any truth to this?

[suntan]

I see the NDP learned well from the Harper gov't.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by lasimmon
The big issue is that for the Alberta bill it stretches to family farms. So no more help from family, kids, or neighbors without paying the, abiding by hour rules, and having proper coverage.

They do say they are reviewing it though and might change it to exclude family farms, but time will tell.
Again...the rest of Canada doesn't seem to have a problem with it. The same legislation applies to all the other provinces, except Alberta.

[schocker]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
It's about the NDP helping out their union pals again. UFCW is praising Bill 6 because it allows farm workers to unionize. Says so right on their website. That's a lot of people that can suddenly unionize.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt over it but Red Deer - South MLA Barb Miller is a steward and directly involved with UFCW.

UFCW wants more in dues.
Don't forget that Notley's husband is a high up at CUPE. :rofl:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Again...the rest of Canada doesn't seem to have a problem with it. The same legislation applies to all the other provinces, except Alberta.

If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you?

[blitz]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Again...the rest of Canada doesn't seem to have a problem with it. The same legislation applies to all the other provinces, except Alberta.

Without scrutiny of the entire bill as its written, no one can be sure that it is the same as other provinces. Transparency and consultation would have gone a long way to preventing this public response.

[01RedDX]

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[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


If all your friends jumped off a bridge would you?

Great argument. Yes, lets let one industry, in one province alone, be completely exempt from safety standards and worker protection, just because "it's been done like this for generations".

:rolleyes:

C'mon....you can do better than that. Or do you just go by what you read about on Facebook rants?

[speedog]

While I do understand the farmer's concerns, at the same time I have to agree with C_Dave45. Put it this way, if one of my kids were to come to work for me in my current line of work, my WCB premiums would have to be adjusted to reflect that or they would have to get their own WCB account to cover themselves as a subcontractor to me.

Why should farm workers be denied the same? The only easy way to do this is to start defining the different types of farming occupations and then possibly declaring some of them as not WCB covered and/or setting rates relative to the injury risk that job poses to that particular worker - kind of like dog groomers. The inherent risk of a dog groomer bring injured on the job is very great and as a result, it is a WCB exempt type of employment - sucks for the dog groomer when they do get injured on the job and have to stop working because of that injury but it is what it is.

As far as family farms being excluded, most of the farmers I know run their farm as an incorporated business and not as a sole proprietorship family farm. Exclude family farms, however that is defined, and watch the sudden change in what most farmers will define their operation as - if saving a buck or two means you're all of sudden a family farm, then just watch that happen.

That all said, there are certain types of farm activities that are inherently more dangerous than others - I've been away from the whole agricultural scene for too many decades to even suggest what might or might not be an inherently dangerous farming job but I am quite confident that some sort of solution can be found to give farm workers some protections.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
It's about the NDP helping out their union pals again. UFCW is praising Bill 6 because it allows farm workers to unionize. Says so right on their website. That's a lot of people that can suddenly unionize.


I don't really care that much, but why shouldn't people be able to unionize if they want to? Clearly it is in an industries best interest to underpay their employees if they can get away with it :drama:

I'm still waiting for dem big union dolla dolla billz to roll in. The only thing AUPE was happy about with the NDP is that they aren't going to try and f*&k with the pension that our members PAID FOR with THEIR money. Oh the huge manity. Considering how the PCs didn't even cave, they just gave away the whole "farm" after stalling for a year on the last contract, you can't honestly expect it to be WORSE under the NDP in that regard can you? :rofl:

I posted on 780 about the farm stuff. Very mixed feelings on it. My argument comes back to have you (general you) ever built a fence at your home? Poured a sidewalk/garage pad? Built a garage? Shovelled the snow in front of your house?

What is the difference between those things and a family farm? Technically, maintaining your household is a job, SELLING your residence is a job (and if you've improved it or kept good care of it, it might even earn you money), so why aren't all of those things treated like a business?

It gets kind of scary when you are advocating for the gov to be as intrusive in your private life as they are in business. I wonder if before I die there will be mandatory signed consent forms for sex? At the rate people's attitudes about government intrusion is changing, wouldn't surprise me.

And now to sit back and relax, my work here is done! :angel:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by C_Dave45


Great argument. Yes, lets let one industry, in one province alone, be completely exempt from safety standards and worker protection, just because "it's been done like this for generations".

:rolleyes:

C'mon....you can do better than that. Or do you just go by what you read about on Facebook rants?

It was a joke Dave, albeit a bad one.

Bringing standards inline with other industries in the province and similar industries across the country is a good thing. Having said that and playing devils advocate a bit, I believe there is some merit in healthy scepticism, and a "just cause everyone else does it doesn't make it right" look at things.

This Bill seems rushed, so far representatives of the NDP Govt that I've heard on radio and TV seem to lack much knowledge about it and certain aspects of it, often unable to answer specific questions regarding it.

[googe]

Yeah, if you put the neighbor kid to work over the summer for a pittance and he loses his hand, you can't just tell him to spit on it and walk it off. He gets the same rights as somebody injured working on a rig. Oh what tyranny!

And it will exclude unpaid workers, so family help is a non-issue.


Originally posted by phreezee
Not that I know the first thing about farming, but the farmers seem upset. I loves me some NDP hate.


This is not constructive at all.

It's also unclear to me why one would proudly boast about their ignorance while taking sides, but I guess it's slightly better than the delusional folks who pile on while having no clue.

How do people expect to better their own situation if reading about a proposal is too much to ask? Instead people would rather take pleasure in watching things go to shit.

[SKR]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Again...the rest of Canada doesn't seem to have a problem with it. The same legislation applies to all the other provinces, except Alberta.


Originally posted by C_Dave45


Great argument. Yes, lets let one industry, in one province alone, be completely exempt from safety standards and worker protection, just because "it's been done like this for generations".

:rolleyes:

C'mon....you can do better than that. Or do you just go by what you read about on Facebook rants?

I've already told you that it's not the same across all the provinces. Saskatchewan and Manitoba are different from each other, and from what we've been told so far about Alberta, it will be different from both of them. If you weren't too lazy to look into it yourself you'd know this.

Edit: Saying "too lazy" might be unnecessary, but I don't know what else to call it if you want to discuss something but are unwilling to put the time in to understand it.

I'm not even saying that there's no need for something like Bill 6, or that Bill 6 isn't exactly what we need (once we find out what the new rules are actually going to be). It's just that you can't act like there's nothing to discuss here because it's going to make Alberta the same as all the other provinces, when that obviously isn't true.

[msommers]

A good read from a farmer's viewpoint.

http://www.innisfailprovince.ca/article/Opposition-to-Bill-6-could-backfire-20151215#.VnMbo_yECt9.facebook

[codetrap]

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[spikerS]

it won't be the same legislation province to province, because each province has it's own legislation and inner workings.

If it was going to be the same legislation across the board, it would be a federal law, and then Alberta would never have been exempt.

The fact that Alberta does not have this legislation is proof that it is provincial legislation, and thus, each provinces version of "bill 6" will be wildly different in the details.