Poke Holes In My Speeding Ticket Defense

[Feruk]

My wife got a speeding ticket... so I'm headed to court. I think I've got a pretty good defense, but please poke holes in it.

Ticket is photo radar from stationary van for 12km/h over in a 50km/h zone. My defense is based on the peace officer not following guidelines in regards to a proper public awareness strategy. I plan to cross-examine him and not testify. I am challenging the peace officer's right to take the ticket rather than the contents of the ticket.

1: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType233/Production/75PhotoEnforcementSigns.pdf
From this document: If a municipality has or will be implementing photo enforcement within the community, that municipality is required to follow the 'Automated Traffic Enforcement Technology Guidelines' of providing public awareness.

As a public awareness requirement, signage must be installed to inform drivers of photo enforcement locations. The sign permit issued by Alberta Transportation for the installation of these signs should be with the municipality and not with their photo enforcement contractor.

2: The guidelines: https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/programs_and_services/public_security/peace_officers/Publications/Automated%20Traffic%20Enforcement%20Technology%20Guidelines%20(Sept%202014).pdf

The guidelines seem like they talk more about speed-on-green cameras, but section 5 about "public awareness" still seems to discuss signage. However, on entrance to the community, and all the way to where I got the ticket, there is no signage.

3. I believe they can also achieve disclosure via publically posting. So on the Calgary.ca website, I found their disclosure (streets and communities for September). Link: http://newsroom.calgary.ca/news/september-photo-enforcement-locations

The street and community where I got the ticket isn't disclosed.

My argument: The officer was not following proper set out guidelines at the time the picture was taken. Specifically, he failed to ensure public disclosure as there was (a) no sign posted, and (b) no public notice given.

I read through the TSA and Police Act this morning, but found nothing that can help or hinder my case. Can I win? What are easy counter-arguments?

[lasimmon]

I find in favor of the plaintiff. Please pay on your way out.

Where did you get the ticket?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Feruk
My wife got a speeding ticket...

Pics?

[kenny]

The photo radar signs are posted on every road entering Calgary.

[Brent.ff]

Guess the fact that a community is not a municipality, they only have to posts signs at the primary access roads to the municipality. I bet there is a sign on macleod, deerfoot, etc that covers their bases...

If one thing, you found a good defence for if you're busted in a speed-transition zone (e.g., the stupid shit on Macleod to Dunbow)

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Brent.ff
Guess the fact that a community is not a municipality, they only have to posts signs at the primary access roads to the municipality. I bet there is a sign on macleod, deerfoot, etc that covers their bases...
Then why would they be posted all over the city? Example:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.023772,-114.1410536,3a,75y,350.38h,74.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBkJrVVLS3efFRHzs3zk0UQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

I think it's community entrances.


Originally posted by lasimmon
Where did you get the ticket?
Parkdale. And I got two in the same place. :D

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Pics?
Haha crap. I mean I got the ticket... yeah.

[lasimmon]

I don't think its a solid defense and you are probably misinterpretting the rules.

Also I think its a waste of time, but I digress :)

[Brent.ff]

Just cause it's posted multiple times within the municipality, doesn't mean it's not covered by being posted at the major thoroughfares?

[killramos]

They have put a photo radar van in front of my house before ( the little white community safety one). There certainly wasn't a sign on my street or anything telling me it was there.

Also if the vans are manned do they count as automated? Like if there is a guy in the front seat who reviews what the computer is telling him while things are happening that's not really automated.

Automated feels more like the Speed on Green cameras at intersections etc. Which are always marked.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by lasimmon
I don't think its a solid defense and you are probably misinterpretting the rules.

Also I think its a waste of time, but I digress :)

+1. How much is the ticket even for? $500? I hate photo radar and the revenue aspect of enforcing, but I'd just pay my 'speed tax' and move the hell on with my life :rofl:

[blitz]

Originally posted by lasimmon
I find in favor of the plaintiff. Please pay on your way out.

Yup, that's how it's going to go. This is traffic court, not a John Grisham novel.

[Mibz]

You're focusing on the Provincial laws which, AFAIK, aren't going to apply here. "Community", in this case, doesn't mean what you think it means. I mean, yeah, most traffic laws are provincial, but this is one of those cases where I'm pretty sure both Calgary and Edmonton have very different laws from the rest of Alberta.

Look for City of Calgary by-laws, because I can pretty much guarantee that there's something in there which will override the things you're quoting.

[OTown]

Why cant people just take responsibility for their ticket and move on? I mean if its an obvious fault of the officer and you have proof of that then you maybe have a case that's worth fighting. Not directed at the OP but this is kind of grasping at straws.

FYI photo radar tickets are actually quite nice compared to a cop pulling you over. They have no demerit points associated, and no marks on driving record.

I just see so much moaning and bitching about photo radar but really... If you speed consistently its going to catch up to you no matter what. Its much much better than to have an actual cop handing you a ticket with demerits and associated costs (insurance, etc) coupled with it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Is there even an officer involved? I thought photo radar vehicles weren't even manned by officers. To me they just look like regular people reading books and letting the machine do it's thing. I didn't think they were plain clothes officers though.

[black300]

Going 12 km/h more than posted speed limit is excessive but not for a photo radar ticket.

There are no demerits and ticket shouldn't be more than $170.

I think it will be a waste of time on your end.

On another note: I saw a photo radar vehicle parked on memorial drive after 14st. There was a guy standing 500 meters before the radar with a huge sign saying "Radar" and an arrow point in the direction.

Wonder if it just a homeless guy who gets tips from drivers who would have got nailed if they did not adjust their speed.

[Agent_Oorange]

Originally posted by kenny
The photo radar signs are posted on every road entering Calgary.

I'm pretty sure this covers them and you are mis-interpreting the guideline docs.

Isn't the time you are going to take off work going to be more than the $100 or whatever it is fine? Seems like a losing proposition to me given there are no demerits.

[gwill]

See the JP at the court house and give them your defence. You can do that before the actual date written on your ticket.... If it's an actual defence the JP will tell you. Or they'll offer to reduce the price by $40 just for speaking with them.

[Feruk]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Really though, if your contribution is to tell me to pay the ticket and move on, please move onto another thread. Already seen that advice in just about every thread dedicated to tickets (no matter how absurd) and I still decided not to pay it. Don't worry about me taking time off work or that it's only $120, that's really not your concern, or the point of this thread. I've already pled not guilty, so going to trial.

Is anyone aware of another location where I can get rules and regulations around where they can place photo radar? Google has not been kind. Also haven't been very successful scouring through Calgary bylaws. There must be something set out...

[Black Gts]

I imagine wherever they want to set up. I recently seen a truck all blue and red flashing in the left hand shoulder of stoney, pull over a lane and keep going and as I'm passing he's alone and a radar unit. I haven't got a ticket yet, hopefully he's only pointing at the left lane but that's a cash grab and not at all about the safety they spout.

[rage2]

I've always been curious about this defense. Let me know how it goes.

[darthVWader]

Most of the Photo vehicles park illegally. Use that as your back up reason :D

[zipdoa]

Originally posted by black300
Going 12 km/h more than posted speed limit is excessive but not for a photo radar ticket.

There are no demerits and ticket shouldn't be more than $170.

I think it will be a waste of time on your end.

On another note: I saw a photo radar vehicle parked on memorial drive after 14st. There was a guy standing 500 meters before the radar with a huge sign saying "Radar" and an arrow point in the direction.

Wonder if it just a homeless guy who gets tips from drivers who would have got nailed if they did not adjust their speed.

I see him frequently. He's on the grass when you're headed Westbound on Memorial Drive RIGHT after you pass under the 14st bridge. He sits right infront of where the Yield sign is where the 14st-to-memorial westbound turn off is.

What a legend. I figured he got a ticket one time, and now has a crazy vendetta against photo radar enforcement. I've seen CPS trying to kick him out before, but he can't be doing anything illegal?

[gwill]

You should be seeing the JP not going to trial. You'll get the answers much quicker and can pick when you go see the JP. When you set it for trial that's your date... It's not as convenient.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Feruk
My wife got a speeding ticket... so I'm headed to court. I think I've got a pretty good defense, but please poke holes in it.

Ticket is photo radar from stationary van for 12km/h over in a 50km/h zone. My defense is based on the peace officer not following guidelines in regards to a proper public awareness strategy. I plan to cross-examine him and not testify. I am challenging the peace officer's right to take the ticket rather than the contents of the ticket.

1: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType233/Production/75PhotoEnforcementSigns.pdf
From this document: If a municipality has or will be implementing photo enforcement within the community, that municipality is required to follow the 'Automated Traffic Enforcement Technology Guidelines' of providing public awareness.

As a public awareness requirement, signage must be installed to inform drivers of photo enforcement locations. The sign permit issued by Alberta Transportation for the installation of these signs should be with the municipality and not with their photo enforcement contractor.

2: The guidelines: https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/programs_and_services/public_security/peace_officers/Publications/Automated%20Traffic%20Enforcement%20Technology%20Guidelines%20(Sept%202014).pdf

The guidelines seem like they talk more about speed-on-green cameras, but section 5 about "public awareness" still seems to discuss signage. However, on entrance to the community, and all the way to where I got the ticket, there is no signage.

3. I believe they can also achieve disclosure via publically posting. So on the Calgary.ca website, I found their disclosure (streets and communities for September). Link: http://newsroom.calgary.ca/news/september-photo-enforcement-locations

The street and community where I got the ticket isn't disclosed.

My argument: The officer was not following proper set out guidelines at the time the picture was taken. Specifically, he failed to ensure public disclosure as there was (a) no sign posted, and (b) no public notice given.

I read through the TSA and Police Act this morning, but found nothing that can help or hinder my case. Can I win? What are easy counter-arguments?


This case could go any of 3-5 ways depending on the JP, what mood they are in, how strong their coffee was, etc.

And as mentioned, there might be some overriding legislation to permit this.

Dress nice, address the JP as "your worship" and dont mumble. You can sometimes get quite far with demeanor alone in traffic court.

Many people show up in jeans and talk to the JP as if they are a teacher in class.

[Mibz]

I went through the traffic bylaw and couldn't find anything, nor could I find another bylaw that could contain something pertaining to this, so it may be that Calgary is, in its entirety, considered a municipality and Kenny's got it right, that the major thoroughfares have signs so it covers all potential vehicle-based photo radar.

If I were you, I would go in there with the attitude of "Can you explain this portion of the law to me, because it sounds like there needs to be signage and/or disclosure and none was present" instead of something more aggressive like "This ticket is invalid because...", and be expecting to pay the full ticket.

But that's just me.

[turbotrip]

I've gone to the JV for 4 photoradar tickets this year, and all of them have taken less than 30sec in the office. Simply state you would like a reduction and are pleading guilty and they have been dropped to ~50%

[Maxt]

Is the operator there to confirm the photo infraction, or is he just there to be a driver for the vehicle? If he is involved in the operation of the camera, ask the operator if he smokes and if he recorded when he went for a smoke. I regularly work at few plants on Ogden road and often see the photo radar operator out of the vehicle smoking, usually standing on the passenger side of the vehicle.

[FixedGear]

Stop wasting taxpayers money and just pay the ticket.

Everyone bitches about taxes and govt spending, so why isn't anyone telling this fool to quit trying to play the system at our expense?

[speedog]

Originally posted by FixedGear
Stop wasting taxpayers money and just pay the ticket.

Everyone bitches about taxes and govt spending, so why isn't anyone telling this fool to quit trying to play the system at our expense?
Isn't living in Canada great?

You have the unrestricted ability to be critical of others like you are doing in this thread while others have the right to challenge what they believe to be injustices served against them.

[jacky4566]

I just learned in the states in some cases the municipality will bill you for the court time. So you could win your $170 ticket only to pay $250 in court fees. Seems really dumb when you win the case.

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by speedog

Isn't living in Canada great?

You have the unrestricted ability to be critical of others like you are doing in this thread while others have the right to challenge what they believe to be injustices served against them.

How is my criticism wasting taxpayer dollars?

[speedog]

Originally posted by FixedGear


How is my criticism wasting taxpayer dollars?
Because it's a waste of ones and zeroes which are most likely carried on TELUS' network at some point which has been or still might be subsidized in whole or part by taxpayer dollars.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by darthVWader
Most of the Photo vehicles park illegally. Use that as your back up reason :D

No they don't. Photo (in Edmonton at least) is operated by level two Peace Officers, who are exempt from portions of the TSA in the course of their duties.

[ryder_23]

Originally posted by Feruk
Thanks for the replies guys.

Really though, if your contribution is to tell me to pay the ticket and move on, please move onto another thread. Already seen that advice in just about every thread dedicated to tickets (no matter how absurd) and I still decided not to pay it. Don't worry about me taking time off work or that it's only $120, that's really not your concern, or the point of this thread. I've already pled not guilty, so going to trial.

Is anyone aware of another location where I can get rules and regulations around where they can place photo radar? Google has not been kind. Also haven't been very successful scouring through Calgary bylaws. There must be something set out...

Well november as weak as it is, covers there ass I guess.

In response to community needs identified through statistical analysis, collisions, and citizen concerns, mobile photo radar will be set up on Crowchild Trail, Deerfoot Trail, Barlow Trail, Stoney Trail, Macleod Trail, Sarcee Trail and Glenmore Trail.

For the month of November photo radar will be focusing on playground zones, high collision locations and areas of public concern within all Calgary communities.

Assuming ur Sept link, thats when you got the ticket. Might of hidden it in community newsletters or something as well?

[OTown]

The reason why this defense will never hold is because it does nothing to actually point out or defend the speeding offence. Its just fodder to try and see if the vehicle is operating legally - which it is and has been pointed out by legislation as well as a bunch of people on here. Everyone and their dog knows that photo radar operates in this city and province, including the OP.

At the end of the day the OP's vehicle was speeding, and thus as the registered owner is subject to fines regarding said infractions against the traffic safety act. There. Done. A simple fine.

There is no 'injustice' here. OP is trying to get out of a ticket that his vehicle clearly deserves and trying to outsmart the system when he should just own up (or perhaps try and get a reduction in fines). His whole "I plead not guilty so I'm going to trial no matter what you say" shows me that he clearly doesn't care what we have to say.

So I must ask why - OP - did you even post this in the first place if you wont listen to critical and logical explanations when you are already set on your ways? Seems like a waste of time for all involved. If you are going to fight it, then fight it - Its your right to do so. But don't ask for validation and then whine when others disagree.

[OTown]

Originally posted by Black Gts
I imagine wherever they want to set up. I recently seen a truck all blue and red flashing in the left hand shoulder of stoney, pull over a lane and keep going and as I'm passing he's alone and a radar unit. I haven't got a ticket yet, hopefully he's only pointing at the left lane but that's a cash grab and not at all about the safety they spout.

So the fact that you cant slow down for a few seconds to safely pass a first responder/tow truck makes it a cash grab? Put yourself in their shoes and that it was you on the side of the road. It would make you feel pretty unconfortable to have cars flying by at 110km/h+ while you are trying to do your job.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Sanctimonioustown! :poosie:

[Feruk]

Thanks for the advice thus far guys. Starting to think I might have to just bring my evidence, ask the cop what disclosure is required, and have everything ready to use depending on his answer...

I guess I'll get full disclosure to see if there's anything additional I can use.

Any traffic cops care to comment? I know we've got a few on here.


Originally posted by OTown
So I must ask why - OP - did you even post this in the first place if you wont listen to critical and logical explanations when you are already set on your ways? Seems like a waste of time for all involved. If you are going to fight it, then fight it - Its your right to do so. But don't ask for validation and then whine when others disagree.
I think I was quite clear I was looking for help/advice to beat the ticket. That's what this thread is about... Why do I complain when people post what I SHOULD'VE done instead of what I SHOULD NOW do? Because it's not relevant? I'm on step 4 and people are telling me how terrible of a taxpayer I am because I somehow fucked up steps 2 and 3...

I'm very much listening and reading all the good advice, but "just pay the ticket" or "dude it's not much money" are not critical explanations.

[phil98z24]

Here are two things from the other side, as it were, that may answer your question:

1) They post in the major roadways coming into the city (municipality) as required by law. They have also done disclosure through the city website, and they don't have to mention specific sites. They probably got you on Memorial Drive, I assume? Which is considered a thoroughfare, and I don't think it counts in terms of community type enforcement. As well, the definition of municipality can be found in Municipal Government Act:

"Municipality” means
(i) a city, town, village, summer village, municipal
district or specialized municipality,

I see what you're saying, but you're misinterpreting the law. It doesn't apply to communities.

2) I've seen this defense tried before, and the PO operating the camera was incredibly articulate and easily shot it down. In your defense, it's a really good idea and I actually think it would work in maybe a smaller town, but Calgary relies on this revenue and they have this wired tight. I just don't see them screwing this up.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by phil98z24
Here are two things from the other side, as it were, that may answer your question:

1) They post in the major roadways coming into the city (municipality) as required by law. They have also done disclosure through the city website, and they don't have to mention specific sites. They probably got you on Memorial Drive, I assume? Which is considered a thoroughfare, and I don't think it counts in terms of community type enforcement. As well, the definition of municipality can be found in Municipal Government Act:

"Municipality” means
(i) a city, town, village, summer village, municipal
district or specialized municipality,

I see what you're saying, but you're misinterpreting the law. It doesn't apply to communities.

2) I've seen this defense tried before, and the PO operating the camera was incredibly articulate and easily shot it down. In your defense, it's a really good idea and I actually think it would work in maybe a smaller town, but Calgary relies on this revenue and they have this wired tight. I just don't see them screwing this up. I missed you, Phil. Thanks for popping by to clear this up.

[Black Gts]

Originally posted by OTown


So the fact that you cant slow down for a few seconds to safely pass a first responder/tow truck makes it a cash grab? Put yourself in their shoes and that it was you on the side of the road. It would make you feel pretty unconfortable to have cars flying by at 110km/h+ while you are trying to do your job.

No lesson learnt there, if they were using laser and pulling people I'd be fine with that. Park a car in front of a tow truck actually working and nail the driver, apparently that's why distracted driving now carries demerits.

[gwill]

Full disclosure? Man your dumb... Go talk to the JP to get it thrown out. Your making this way harder then it needs to be.

[OTown]

Originally posted by Black Gts


No lesson learnt there, if they were using laser and pulling people I'd be fine with that. Park a car in front of a tow truck actually working and nail the driver, apparently that's why distracted driving now carries demerits.

So you are saying that you would be fine if a cop pulled you over and gave you demerits instead of getting a straight fine (registered owner) ticket that doesnt affect your abstract? Am I reading your comment correctly? And how would that not make you slow down the next time you see crews on the side of the road?

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by phil98z24
Here are two things from the other side, as it were, that may answer your question:

1) They post in the major roadways coming into the city (municipality) as required by law. They have also done disclosure through the city website, and they don't have to mention specific sites. They probably got you on Memorial Drive, I assume? Which is considered a thoroughfare, and I don't think it counts in terms of community type enforcement. As well, the definition of municipality can be found in Municipal Government Act:

"Municipality” means
(i) a city, town, village, summer village, municipal
district or specialized municipality,

I see what you're saying, but you're misinterpreting the law. It doesn't apply to communities.

2) I've seen this defense tried before, and the PO operating the camera was incredibly articulate and easily shot it down. In your defense, it's a really good idea and I actually think it would work in maybe a smaller town, but Calgary relies on this revenue and they have this wired tight. I just don't see them screwing this up.

Nice to hear from you again phil98z24, and as always, precise details.

[msommers]

JP is pretty good about halving the cost of the ticket if you explain what happened in positive tone - more flies with honey etc. For your time outside and inside court spent on this, just doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

[black300]

I understand you want to fight the ticket for some reason. Most likely the cost of the ticket will be reduced.

I just don't understand why they let drivers do that. Especially in this particular case:

1.) You or your wife were speeding at 12km/h more than posted speed.

2.) They got evidence and nailed you.

There is nothing more to this, yes everyone would like to go fight a ticket to reduce the cost. But it seems as if your looking to win a battle, you are the culprit.

What did the CPS do wrong? They set up a radar? There was an error with their computer and you were going 12km/h less than posted speed.

Just seems as if this is all about personal satisfaction.

In my opinion this should stop, its a waste of time and the drivers who are receiving tickets are not learning their experience. Yes a police officer may make a mistake or maybe biased when he issuing you a ticket. Therefore go argue it, but a computer/radar that is generating tickets with minimal room for error.

My friend got a ticket for tint 3 times for the same vehicle within a year. Every time he would take the ticket and get it reduced, finally when he received his fourth ticket, the court told him that he had to pay double the fine opposed to the ticket and go show his vehicle at a local police station to verify the tint was removed. Lesson learned for him.

[Lex350]

What's with the sanctimonious a-holes in this thread already? What do you really wish to accomplish by beating a dead house here other than felling superior. Not withstanding the speeding I am interested in how this gets interpreted. I like the information that comes from it. OP is well within his rights to challenge it. The system allows for it. Go take your holier than thou circle jerk and make your own thread and go nuts bitching about people wasting your tax dollars.

Leave this one for people who are clearly interested in how it turns out.

[OTown]

If you go to court and choose to plead guilty the crown normally gives you a decent break on the fine. If its a question of affordability then I would highly recommend OP go to court, be upfront and honest, and try to get a reduction in fines. They can also provide you with extended time to pay the ticket should you not have the funds immediately. But to fight it (testify/contest) will IMO be a losing battle that's a double edged sword as not only is it a waste of time but it may have the OP have to pay more than the face of the ticket if the JP is trying to make an example of him.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by OTown
.. but it may have the OP have to pay more than the face of the ticket if the JP is trying to make an example of him.
This is not going to happen.

[Black Gts]

Originally posted by OTown


So you are saying that you would be fine if a cop pulled you over and gave you demerits instead of getting a straight fine (registered owner) ticket that doesnt affect your abstract? Am I reading your comment correctly? And how would that not make you slow down the next time you see crews on the side of the road?
I changed lanes as you're supposed too, I'm not arguing enforcement at all. I've been broken down on the side of highway 1 with pylons set up on a clear summer day, and seen how close people get and it was stupidity when the tow truck driver tried making a little extra room for himself. A proper crack down in needed, but yes imo the struggler that gets caught by a photo radar trap will have no idea why the ticket is double, and just pay.... Or make a thread on beyond lol. (not a shot at op)

[Maxt]

After I got a park plus ticket photo of my vehicle while it was driving at speed in a inner driving lane downtown, I am critical of all photo enforcement.... I don't think its cut and dried perfect as people think it is, there are probably a lot of bum tickets that just get paid so I like that people question the validity of a ticket..
https://www.calgaryparking.com/web/guest/photoenforcement
"Prior to issuing a photo parking ticket every ‘potential violation’ is presented online to a ‘peace officer’ for detailed review. Officers confirm violations by verifying payment information with the observed vehicle information captured in the photographs to ensure no errors have occurred during any process."

I guess I got the guy with the white cane that day...

[OTown]

Originally posted by Maxt
After I got a park plus ticket photo of my vehicle while it was driving at speed in a inner driving lane downtown, I am critical of all photo enforcement.... I don't think its cut and dried perfect as people think it is, there are probably a lot of bum tickets that just get paid so I like that people question the validity of a ticket..
https://www.calgaryparking.com/web/guest/photoenforcement
"Prior to issuing a photo parking ticket every ‘potential violation’ is presented online to a ‘peace officer’ for detailed review. Officers confirm violations by verifying payment information with the observed vehicle information captured in the photographs to ensure no errors have occurred during any process."

I guess I got the guy with the white cane that day...

Although park plus and photo radar are two completely different entities, I will say that no system is perfect and there will indeed be tickets that are handed out that deserve to be challenged in court .

Your parking ticket would be appropriate for an appeal from the sounds of it. There have been times where people have fought the tickets and ended up winning based on said error. No one is doubting that - That is why we have appeals process.

But the difference between this and the OP's ticket is that - from the sounds of it - everything on his ticket checks out. The vehicle was clearly moving , above the speed limit, in a prescribed zone. And that is all the camera has to prove.

IMO the only way out would be if the camera was either pointed at the wrong vehicle or improperly calibrated or it read the wrong plate. Other than that there is very little defense the OP can use to fight the ticket.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by OTown


Although park plus and photo radar are two completely different entities, I will say that no system is perfect and there will indeed be tickets that are handed out that deserve to be challenged in court .

Your parking ticket would be appropriate for an appeal from the sounds of it. There have been times where people have fought the tickets and ended up winning based on said error. No one is doubting that - That is why we have appeals process.

But the difference between this and the OP's ticket is that - from the sounds of it - everything on his ticket checks out. The vehicle was clearly moving , above the speed limit, in a prescribed zone. And that is all the camera has to prove.

IMO the only way out would be if the camera was either pointed at the wrong vehicle or improperly calibrated or it read the wrong plate. Other than that there is very little defense the OP can use to fight the ticket.
He was looking to see if the City hadn't followed what the City was supposed to do in the law in its application of the tool , I agree in his case,his interpretation was incorrect and the City had indeed covered that base. I just encourage people to at least vet the ticket instead of just flipping open the cheque book.
With Law enforcement using photo technology and us having to take their word to its accuracy, the only defense a person really has anymore, is photo technology itself, a dash camera is now a absolute must, so you can prove your gps speed, speed in relation to traffic, vehicle position in an intersection etc.
My parking ticket did get rescinded, what I didn't get and what I requested is how that ticket ever made it into the mail if the City has people double checking the photo systems operation. Getting it in writing that their technology and their staff do make errors was probably never going to happen. ;) ..

[speedog]

Originally posted by Maxt

He was looking to see if the City hadn't followed what the City was supposed to do in the law in its application of the tool , I agree in his case,his interpretation was incorrect and the City had indeed covered that base. I just encourage people to at least vet the ticket instead of just flipping open the cheque book.

With Law enforcement using photo technology and us having to take their word to its accuracy, the only defense a person really has anymore, is photo technology itself, a dash camera is now a absolute must, so you can prove your gps speed, speed in relation to traffic, vehicle position in an intersection etc.

My parking ticket did get rescinded, what I didn't get and what I requested is how that ticket ever made it into the mail if the City has people double checking the photo systems operation. Getting it in writing that their technology and their staff do make errors was probably never going to happen. ;) ..

I'm trying to understand what you're trying to achieve by getting such a letter. This system is not infallible, no different than any other system - there are humans involved in the system's design, setup and operation. So what, you get your letter and then what?

[Maxt]

Originally posted by speedog


I'm trying to understand what you're trying to achieve by getting such a letter. This system is not infallible, no different than any other system - there are humans involved in the system's design, setup and operation. So what, you get your letter and then what?
You can say the system is not infallible, but the city won't say that , understand yet?

[speedog]

So what.

Do you really think something would change if you got your letter?

[Maxt]

You don't think that if they have a hole in their system they should own up to it? That its their right to keep it secret? It is entirely possible they have been ticketing a lot of people that don't deserve the ticket.:nut:
When it happened, I was driving downtown a lot, I wanted to know what the circumstances were that allowed me to be ticketed erroneously in case I started getting the tickets in my work vehicle, or if people on here started getting a rash of park plus tickets. Is there no function in the technology to tell if the vehicle is moving? I was seeing the camera cars in close proximity 10-15 times in a work day.
Why that's such an unreasonable demand in your world, I don't know.

[speedog]

Even if they did own up to it to you, do you honestly think it would stop all mistakes?

[Maxt]

Originally posted by speedog
Even if they did own up to it to you, do you honestly think it would stop all mistakes?
Where the fuck are you going with this, if you like circles, go buy a hoola hoop.

[acedia]

You wanted an official letter from them admitting that they made a mistake on your ticket? Would you also have accepted their official apology on that same letter, or would you prefer that separate? :rofl: