California cop shoots drunk driver - no charges

[sillysod]

I get he's probably pissed off because he is chasing him but don't see why he needed to double tap the guy. I don't see how he "accidently" shot the guy - looks pretty intentional to me.

Apparently the blurry spot is his wife (dead) that got tossed out when he rolled his suv.

Fuck him for driving drunk, but probably didn't need to get shot or am I missing something?

News article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/officer-shot-dui-suspect-charges_566b31a9e4b0fccee16e924f)

MZBS_p-NVFI

[blairtruck]

it was like walking dead and a zombie popped up and rick destroyed it.

[rage2]

I'm no gun expert, but I've seen friends shoot, so unless he's Robocop, there's no way he can unholster, aim and shoot that fast, so I can believe it was accidental.

[CompletelyNumb]

An accidental double tap one second after upholstering? I'd believe it if both bullets missed. But his actions seemed very rehearsed. He had no reaction whatsoever, double tap, holster, walk over and look at guy. :dunno:

Get that gun fixed either way, too light of a trigger action lol

[bjstare]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
An accidental double tap one second after upholstering? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/High_Point,_North_Carolina_-_Upholstering._Tomlinson_Chair_Manufacturing_Co._Applying_hair_in_the_upholstery_of_chair..._-_NARA_-_518479.jpg

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by cjblair
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/High_Point,_North_Carolina_-_Upholstering._Tomlinson_Chair_Manufacturing_Co._Applying_hair_in_the_upholstery_of_chair..._-_NARA_-_518479.jpg


:rofl:

[zipdoa]

That was some wild west shit. I don't see how that couldn't have been intentional.

[lilmira]

Pretty good shot if it was intentional. Ethan Hunt would be impressed.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Ramsey said on Thursday that Feaster didn't mention the shooting until 11 minutes after backup and paramedics arrived.

To me, that really taints the situation. That doesn't display any care or consideration for preserving a life (unless there's more to the story, which there is because this is in the media....), especially if you accidentally shot someone.

[phil98z24]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb
An accidental double tap one second after upholstering? I'd believe it if both bullets missed. But his actions seemed very rehearsed. He had no reaction whatsoever, double tap, holster, walk over and look at guy. :dunno:

Get that gun fixed either way, too light of a trigger action lol

Glock semi-auto pistols have a trigger reset, where you fire the first shot and the subsequent shots only require a slight release of the trigger and then you can pull back for your next shots without full action of the trigger. It's super useful when you need to accurately and quickly get some rounds downrange, but if you screw up and have a sympathetic reaction to someone else shooting, are losing your mind, or simply a maroon, you will fire a lot of shots very quickly. I can empty a 15 round mag in seconds using trigger reset, and have a very tight grouping. It's a little scary how well it works.

As far as the rest of this goes.. I'm really reluctant lately to weigh in on these issues, as it seems video still doesn't exonerate or indict anyone to the fullest extent. There is still something missing, and everyone has an opinion about it despite what may appear to be a cut and dry case. However, this one is a very good example of "what the fuuuuuuu..."

I can see how he can draw and shoot twice in such a short time frame using a Glock. I can't see him unholstering, aiming, and shooting twice accurately in that time frame. However, he did have his hand on his pistol while approaching (which believe it or not, is actually a slower draw and up to target time) and indicates he was prepared to use it, or mentally was in the frame of mind that he was GOING to use it. His quick reholstering, and then not telling anyone for 11 minutes is certainly bizarre, but I can tell you having (unfortunately) been involved in a few OIS through my career, I've seen people act bizarre afterwards.

This one is totally out in left field. Prime facie, yeah, he out and out dropped the guy with two shots without justification. Maybe there is a video analysis that shows he was surprised and based on his testimony, gives reason to believe he didn't mean to do it. I'm not defending one position or the other, just throwing it out there.

[Xtrema]

No gun nut but to squeeze off 2 rounds that fast, skill or equipment?

He is a heavy cop tho, there is no way he can make it a foot chase and probably why he ended it right there.

[A790]

Originally posted by Xtrema
No gun nut but to squeeze off 2 rounds that fast, skill or equipment?
Read the post directly above yours. Phil talks about how the equipment is a big influencer.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by phil98z24
His quick reholstering, and then not telling anyone for 11 minutes is certainly bizarre, but I can tell you having (unfortunately) been involved in a few OIS through my career, I've seen people act bizarre afterwards.

This one is totally out in left field. Prime facie, yeah, he out and out dropped the guy with two shots without justification. Maybe there is a video analysis that shows he was surprised and based on his testimony, gives reason to believe he didn't mean to do it. I'm not defending one position or the other, just throwing it out there.

I imagine the entire thing would have been mentally stressful even WITHOUT the shooting, everyone's brain reacts differently to highly charged situations and I would imagine training can only be so helpful in how you react to things. Not a situation anyone would likely want to be in.

[rage2]

I was wrong. Even Robocop needs time to aim before shooting. (btw - NSFW haha)

https://vimeo.com/86014703

[Gman.45]

As Phil said, most semi auto pistols have a trigger reset, some shorter and different that others. For example, striker fired pistols like the Glock, Smith M/P, and so on, have the same trigger press mechanics with every shot. There is still a reset system that re engages the striker/firing mechanism, which occurs as the finger releases the trigger.

Not all pistols work the same internally. Sig double action/single action pistols are a prime example. First shot the hammer is down, and is a long double action trigger pull which takes much more force to press. Subsequent shots the hammer stays in the rear position, which is now "single action", where the trigger press is much shorter and lighter, 1/2 or more typically in terms of weight and distance. Sigs and other pistols also have options for "short reset triggers", which magnify the effect Phil was speaking of as well. So, many factors at play depending on what handgun was used in this shooting, in terms of it being an accidental discharge. I searched several articles, and none made mention of the type of pistol the officer used, which is very relevant to this particular discussion regarding the trigger and pressing it under stress. If the officer was using any type of pistol, there are explanations for the 2nd shot, but especially if he was using a DA/SA pistol where the subsequent shots after the first require a much lighter/shorter trigger press, which makes a 2nd accidental discharge even more likely.

When you're under stress and shooting, that trigger press becomes like pressing warm air, a 12# New York Glock trigger can feel like 1/2 a pound when the adrenaline dump is on the march. Also, another feature of the body's response is less circulation to the extremities, which means the fine motor skills of the trigger finger can be greatly compromised under stress (sometimes).

It could have been a simple mistake of breaking one of the 4 major rules - finger on the trigger before making the conscious decision to fire. Booger picker number 1 on the trigger before it should be is responsible for the lions share of negligent discharges and accidental shootings.

The officer made a sort of startled stutter step right as/after he shot, which does allow for the possibility that he just screwed up unintentionally IMO. The body's startle response always activates in a surprise shooting event, if you're the target mostly, but it can also be if you're the shooter (again, negligent discharges are by their nature a surprise). When I taught at Sig Sauer Academy, part of the syllabus for adult learning in a CQB environment is the body's startle response and how to manage it effectively. Those that study the science of how the body reacts to unexpected gunshots will immediately point to how this officer's body reacted I would wager, and declare it an unintentional discharge. Mistake, probably, and a bad one, but I'd wager not an execution just based on this fact alone - again as Phil stated hearing his statement would be interesting regarding this.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I don't know what gun he was using, but if that first trigger pull was DA, I would find it hard to believe it was by accident - you need to use a decent amount of force. On the other hand, it happened so fast and accurately that it's also hard to believe he did it on purpose unless he is quite the marksman. Either way I don't think anyone will miss a drunk driver off the road.

As always, we will never know all the details, the exact situation, etc. High pressure events like this effect everyone differently, and none of us were there to read the situation.

[Brent.ff]

Originally posted by rage2
I was wrong. Even Robocop needs time to aim before shooting. (btw - NSFW haha)

https://vimeo.com/86014703

..that escalated quickly

[kdwebber]

The officer is looking around for his spent shell casings. If the reports are true he also failed to notify emergency responders for 11 minutes that he had shot the suspect. These are all actions of a guilty person in my mind.

[acedia]

Officer Who Mistakenly Shot DUI Suspect Won't Face Charges (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/officer-shot-dui-suspect-charges_566b31a9e4b0fccee16e924f)


When backup arrived on the scene, Feaster did not mention anything about having fired his weapon. According to Ramsey, Feaster notified his commanding officer about the discharge only after Thomas’ gunshot wound was found.

As the commanding officer suggested an investigator return to Canteena and try to find out if Thomas had been shot at the bar, Feaster revealed that he may have shot Thomas.

Are you effing kidding me? This man is a disgrace and should never have a gun or badge again.

[OTown]

Wait... so this was a pursuit? That sort of changes things.

[Seth1968]

Found this in the comments:


And don't forget the part where Feaster radios in that the suspect refused to get out of the vehicle. That was (another) blatant lie!

Don't know if it's true considering you would have to be pretty stupid to forget about that pesky dash cam.

[Seth1968]

And WTF is this:


District Attorney Mike Ramsey quickly declared the shooting an "accidental discharge." He said on Nov. 27 that the determination was made by examining the video frame by frame, KRCR reports. Ramsey said it was clear that Feaster was surprised by the gun firing.

What is this? Backwards day?

Everything the cop did was opposite to surprised.

[OTown]

Originally posted by Seth1968
Found this in the comments:



Don't know if it's true considering you would have to be pretty stupid to forget about that pesky dash cam.

Well since the comments section is never actually considered a reasonable source, maybe you have the audio transcripts so that we can actually see what happened?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by OTown
maybe you have the audio transcripts so that we can actually see what happened?

WTF? Audio is video?

Are you trying to be sarcastic, or are you just stupid?

[wintonyk]

my question is why the hell you would draw a gun in the first place when you see a vehicle rollover.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by wintonyk
my question is why the hell you would draw a gun in the first place when you see a vehicle rollover.

This was the culmination of a pursuit, not the officer coming across a random accident.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by wintonyk
my question is why the hell you would draw a gun in the first place when you see a vehicle rollover.

Well that's only a "start".

Fuck you A7 whatever:)

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by FraserB


This was the culmination of a pursuit, not the officer coming across a random accident.

WTF?

I just give up.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by wintonyk
my question is why the hell you would draw a gun in the first place when you see a vehicle rollover.

http://stabmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/cant-tell-if-serious.png

This individual was willing to put his wife and the general public at risk to evade police, you have no idea what's in his vehicle or what MORE he'd do to evade police. Approaching that vehicle gun drawn is absolutely the proper protocol.

My gut feeling is this was an accident, just the way it looks. As others have said trying to deliberately shoot in this manor would require a fair amount of skill. How he handled the situation would suggest otherwise however.

[Feruk]

NM... guy survived.

[OTown]

Originally posted by Seth1968


WTF? Audio is video?

Are you trying to be sarcastic, or are you just stupid?

Ah I was unaware there was a full extended version of the video.

So I just watched it. He didnt call for medics initially because I'm sure their dispatch does it automatically when a collision occurs. I think the other officer called for medics to be 'here now' just to make sure that they were in fact on their way - and dispatched confirmed they were already en route. So that's a moot point.

As for the 'accident'... Its plausible but hard to tell really. Human beings do some weird stuff under incredible stress and pressure, and police officers are human. It would explain why he thought the guy was refusing to leave the vehicle. Its hard to tell as we only have a video and we don't have the totality of the circumstances. I find it hard to believe that a cop would willingly do something like this when he is the one that started the dashcam in the first place and is aware of it, but hey who knows?

We do have to be mindful that the states do have certain laws that allow officers to use such deadly force in some situations.


Under U.S. law the fleeing felon rule was limited in 1985 to non-lethal force in most cases by Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1. The justices held that deadly force "may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others."[2]

A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead...however...Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force.

— Justice Byron White, Tennessee v. Garner[3]
Fleeing felons may be followed into places not open to the public without a warrant if the officer is in "hot pursuit.[4] Deadly force that is executed by a co-defendant against an accomplice is not justified by the fleeing felon rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule
Refering to https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/471/1/

So there is US caselaw in defence of the officer's articulation.

Is it enough? Who knows. I'm sure there are details here that we have no idea about. This video only shows one perspective of the events that unfolded and does not capture the totality of events and what the officer was thinking.

[rx7boi]

http://i.imgur.com/uQg4I.jpg

And then of course...never forget the mantra!

"I was fearful for my life!"

[snowcat]

Originally posted by acedia
Officer Who Mistakenly Shot DUI Suspect Won't Face Charges (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/officer-shot-dui-suspect-charges_566b31a9e4b0fccee16e924f)



Are you effing kidding me? This man is a disgrace and should never have a gun or badge again.

Let me guess, you're the type of person to say "throw the book at him" too?

[acedia]

I can't tell if you're on me for my choice of words, or the fact that I think he should be fired.

I do think he should be relieved of his duties. I'd say covering up a shooting while on duty is kind of a bad idea.

[civic_stylez]

Originally posted by cjblair
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/High_Point,_North_Carolina_-_Upholstering._Tomlinson_Chair_Manufacturing_Co._Applying_hair_in_the_upholstery_of_chair..._-_NARA_-_518479.jpg


:rofl: :rofl: day maker right there...