Alberta Credit Rating Dropped

[whiteout]

Joe Ceci still claims that the NDP has adopted a balanced and responsible fiscal policy and a downgrade of the credit rating will not impact borrowing costs.

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/alta-finance-minister-disappointed-by-change-in-credit-rating-1.2706421

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Gart]

Thanks Obama

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CtZvXbIPtQ0/TkM2JjBaS4I/AAAAAAAAEew/0HUVfpUL5rY/s400/Homer+cereal+fire.jpg

[phreezee]

Why bother.. Socialists don't understand economics, if they did, they wouldn't be socialists.

[jonsey737]

I tried to quickly google and found nothing so I'm going to be lazy and ask here:

What's the difference between Budget Performance (Weak) and Financial Management (Very Strong). I'm sure they mean very different things but by name alone they sound like they are the same.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[phreezee]

Before an NDP voter tells me to blame the oil price and not the NDP.

Direct from the S&P report.


Previous governments have shown a willingness and capacity to substantially cut operating spending, which had bolstered our assessment of the province's budgetary flexibility. We believe that with the election, that willingness has decreased due to the government's resolve to protect (public sector) jobs.




The inability of the province to control operating and capital spending that leads to negative operating balances, after-capital deficits (above 15% of total revenues), and continuing large annual increases in the debt burden that are expected to persist beyond our outlook horizon or a precipitous decline in liquidity could place downward pressure on the ratings.

[dirtsniffer]

NDP supporters are not surprisingly absent from this thread.

[InRich]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
NDP supporters are not surprisingly absent from this thread.

only cause their all stupid idiots to begin with

[reijo]

The fails continue to mount. :(

[codetrap]

.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
NDP supporters are not surprisingly absent from this thread.

What could they possibly say? There's not a lot of ambiguity in the wording of this report, it states pretty clearly this is the result of the choices this Gov't has and is making.

Playing Devils Advocate, maybe they could question the importance of the lowered rating, I dunno :dunno:

[codetrap]

.

[HiTempguy1]

I was also going to point out the shit going on with AHS has zero to do with the NDP, the PCs got them to that point of ineptness and bloat.

Still though, I don't think many people think the NDP are doing things right. The fact is, they have massively gone above and beyond their campaign promises already. Not much to day that hasn't already been said, those who support the NDP based on ideology vs practicality will defend them until the end.

[codetrap]

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[16hypen3sp]

As soon as Stelmach took over, the PC party became increasingly liberal. They couldn't stop the spending... which is very eye-opening considering Stelmach was part of the Deep Six under Klein. It boggles the mind how he could be a part of that group and then be a Red Tory while being the Premier.

Redford, no question, Liberal... and full of entitlement. She couldn't stop the spending either... very doubtful that she was even concerned about it.

The thing about Stelmach and Redford is... at least they seemed business friendly.

Now here we are with Notley who is, no question, tax and spend, anti-big business, nanny-state, fiscally incompetent. The wild spending has got to stop. Simple as that.

In hindsight, I'd say Stelmach is the one who let spending go but also had the best chance of reigning it in. But by the time he handed the office over to Redford, it was a lost cause with things considerably worse from that point to today.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by InRich


only cause their all stupid idiots to begin with

They're.

At least the NDP might teach you how to spell.

[Shlade]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


They're.

At least the NDP might teach you how to spell.

Ha

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by InRich


only cause their all stupid idiots to begin with



Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


They're.

At least the NDP might teach you how to spell.

Or teach you the difference between spelling and grammar ;)

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Seth1968





Or teach you the difference between spelling and grammar ;)

The word is still spelled wrong.

[71/454]

Originally posted by InRich


only cause their all stupid idiots to begin with

Didn't you complain that because of the NDP you were going to have to lay off half your staff, then you went out and bought a full load new truck?

[InRich]

Originally posted by 71/454


Didn't you complain that because of the NDP you were going to have to lay off half your staff, then you went out and bought a full load new truck?

needed it for winter.
and if my business goes down, and I can't keep all my guys busy, (I currently run 21 guys full time) of course they'll be layoffs, should I just keep them around paying them for doing nothing? What would you do? pay them right?

As far as strategy, I plan on running the same strategy marketing and money wise as I have done every other year, nothing will change that way, I still spend a ton of time and money going out there, and trying to get as much business as possible, but if people arn't buying, cause their laid off, cause the economy is bad, because their scraping by, there is nothing I can do now can I?

Why are you trying to pick fights?

[codetrap]

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[InRich]

Originally posted by codetrap
What he's pointing out is that previously you were all fire and brimstone that the NDP were going to totally ruin you and you now had to lay off all your staff and we're all going to hell in Notley's handbasket.....

but the reality is that it's still business as usual.

Cause shes a total loser. anyone with a brain knows shes doing everything in her power to ruin the province. Thats obvious by now to everyone, even NDP supporters.

And for a while there it looked pretty bad for me this year, but then I started working 7 days a week instead of my usual 6, and ended up having a decent year, only had to lay off 1 crew for a couple weeks.

2016 is gonna be the year i'm worried about.

[msommers]

What's to say. They clearly have a spending problem and it's become apparent that despite me agreeing with most of their policies, implementing them all at once was not a wise decision.

Despite this being The Sun, the numbers are there. Found it interesting and has given me a bit different perspective.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/11/01/oil-prices-arent-to-blame-in-alberta

[Cos]

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[codetrap]

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[Feruk]

All these projections for the next deficit are based on what, $50USD oil in 2016? I suspect we have no idea just how bad it's gonna be yet. If we had another government in power, there could at least be massive slashing in the public sector. I think that with the NDP, we'll just see a bigger and bigger predicted deficit and zero plans to slash.

[Seth1968]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by msommers
[B]What's to say. They clearly have a spending problem and it's become apparent that despite me agreeing with most of their policies, implementing them all at once was not a wise decision.

Despite this being The Sun, the numbers are there. Found it interesting and has given me a bit different perspective.

Oh wait. No more propaganda against "The Sun"

Despite this, I got this 20% increase in my mutuality taxes, and same for every commodity to live.

Yet, average income only increases by a fraction of that.

Explain that A whatever.

[msommers]

I don't know about anyone else but as soon as Seth says 'propoganda' I stop reading. Thankfully I didn't have to go far.

[71/454]

Originally posted by Feruk
All these projections for the next deficit are based on what, $50USD oil in 2016? I suspect we have no idea just how bad it's gonna be yet. If we had another government in power, there could at least be massive slashing in the public sector. I think that with the NDP, we'll just see a bigger and bigger predicted deficit and zero plans to slash.

It's going to be bad theres no doubt. Unfortunately the rest of the province will continue to live on. This means we need all those services because the population has not shrunk and people still need doctors and hospitals. Nobody wants to pay for a fire hall until their house is on fire it seems.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Cos
That's what I was going to bring up, but I'll get attacked for being a moran, idiot, not understanding economics, so why bother? I'll just leave this thread to let everyone jerk each other off.


Ya my knee jerk reaction was "this is terrible". Truthfully though I'll admit I don't really understand the ramifications of the lower rating. Someone with more than my zero knowledge feel free to chime in. Objectively speaking what's the consequences here?

[KrisYYC]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


Ya my knee jerk reaction was "this is terrible". Truthfully though I'll admit I don't really understand the ramifications of the lower rating. Someone with more than my zero knowledge feel free to chime in. Objectively speaking what's the consequences here?

What I've heard is that a lower rating can increase the cost of borrowing (lower credit=increased risk=higher interest). So spending obligations the government plans to use borrowed money for could end up costing even more.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by KrisYYC


What I've heard is that a lower rating can increase the cost of borrowing (lower credit=increased risk=higher interest). So spending obligations the government plans to use borrowed money for could end up costing even more.

I understood it on that level ;) I was wondering if there was anything more in depth.

[16hypen3sp]

So are we going to argue over the NDP raising corporate taxes, implementing carbon taxes, raising personal taxes, boosting the min wage, beginning a royalty review... all in a massive economic downturn...

those are all good things for our industry???

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by codetrap


but the reality is that it's still business as usual.

Cept for all these people...

http://calgaryherald.com/tag/layoffs-and-downsizing

[FraserB]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
So are we going to argue over the NDP raising corporate taxes, implementing carbon taxes, raising personal taxes, boosting the min wage, beginning a royalty review... all in a massive economic downturn...

those are all good things for our industry???

Of course it is. It will create a ton of new jobs:devil:

[Seth1968]

For those that know the basics of politics, it was no surprise that the NDP would bring in a sales tax under the guise of a Carbon Tax. A tax that will do nothing to help the economy, or the environment.

I suspect that most NDP voters in the last election, consisted of idealistic and politically ignorant stay at home moms, and protest voters. Both of which are now probably denying they voted NDP.

I also suspect that if an election were called right now, the NDP would fall flat on their face.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Seth1968
I also suspect that if an election were called right now, the NDP would fall flat on their face.
I disagree. I actually have a bet going with Kenny that the NDP will win another term.

It's the middle class to the 1%ers that are bitching about the NDP, but that doesn't matter, because votes are worth the same if you're bottom 10% or top 10%. The lower 50% doesn't care about deficits, or fiscal responsibilities because it has absolutely nothing to do with them whatsoever. They care about social programs, minimum wage, and more money in their pocket, which is what the NDP is giving them.

If you look at the way the carbon tax is structured, they're ensuring that the bottom 60% earners get rebates to offset the rise in prices. They are going after the poor vote.

[Xtrema]

PC expected a $5B deficit, NDP turn it into $6B.

The back peddling on spending is probably because next budget is gonna be bad.

The downgrade, it's able their borrowing without a payment plan. Nobody has a problem with us borrowing. They do have a problem with how we are paying back which is nowhere to be seen in any NDP plans.


Originally posted by rage2

I disagree. I actually have a bet going with Kenny that the NDP will win another term.

It's the middle class to the 1%ers that are bitching about the NDP, but that doesn't matter, because votes are worth the same if you're bottom 10% or top 10%. The lower 50% doesn't care about deficits, or fiscal responsibilities because it has absolutely nothing to do with them whatsoever. They care about social programs, minimum wage, and more money in their pocket, which is what the NDP is giving them.

If you look at the way the carbon tax is structured, they're ensuring that the bottom 60% earners get rebates to offset the rise in prices. They are going after the poor vote.

Agreed.

[Seth1968]

Extrema and Rage:

Ok, good points, but then I suspect that you agree with the rest of my post?

BTW- Funny how the NDP made absolutely no mention of a Carbon Tax in their mandate.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by rage2
They are going after the poor vote.

Like every NDP Government ever? Shocking! :eek:

[phreezee]

Originally posted by rage2

They are going after the poor vote.

Calgary West shockingly voted in Drever, so it's not going to be clear cut poor vs. rich.

Last election was about anger against the right.
1) Prentice was a prick.
2) Smith sabotaged the WR.
3) Jean sucked at the debate.
4) Notley won the debate.

NDP also got a lot of votes from the health care professionals and patient families who wanted the Cancer Centre. Now that they've deferred completetion until beyond their first term, they might have lost some trust.

Political landscape might change if Jean gets his way and merges the right parties.

[rage2]

Agreed. I'm just talking about the next vote.

[A790]

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/thomson-amnesia-strikes-the-ndps-conservative-critics

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by codetrap
When I read opinions like this stated as fact, I can only conclude that the people making them are simply stupid. Not ignorant, not uninformed, but actively, deliberately stupid.

Nobody, not you, not me, not Rachel Notley, not anyone who is in their right mind wants to see Alberta ruined. We all may have different views on how to make it better, but attacking the person and not the idea is simply stupid. It's in no way constructive, it can't possibly help, and it just makes you look bad.

So sure, feel free to sit in your virtual corner venting your spleen and making stupid comments. It's only your credibility you're destroying.

/rant.

You'll have to define ruined.

Much like the fav quote used by the left about Harper, 'you won't recognize Canada when I'm done.'

Many felt he ruined Canada, even though quality of life really hasn't changed our the broader social fabric of the country.

If you felt Harper was bad for Canada you have to understand other people have the same feelings about other politicians as well and they are as legit as yours.

(You as in general, not you specifically)

[phreezee]

Originally posted by A790
http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/thomson-amnesia-strikes-the-ndps-conservative-critics

Not sure how this story fits here, but I agree that % argument is asinine.
Liberals cried foul in 2011, and now have a majority with even less % in 2015. Author glossed over that. Electoral reform that the Liberals are proposing is not the fix.

Accept the result but bitch freely on the internet. :)

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by phreezee
bitch freely on the internet. :)

Done and..............Done :thumbsup:

[klumsy_tumbler]

Originally posted by rage2
It's the middle class to the 1%ers that are bitching about the NDP

Let's not forget the rural folk. Bill 6 didn't exactly make them any friends among the ranchers and farmers ("miscommunication" or not), and small town residents will ALWAYS support that industry.

[Buster]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


I understood it on that level ;) I was wondering if there was anything more in depth.

Some institutional investors can ONLY purchase government bonds if they are a certain rating.

[Buster]

Originally posted by rage2

I disagree. I actually have a bet going with Kenny that the NDP will win another term.

It's the middle class to the 1%ers that are bitching about the NDP, but that doesn't matter, because votes are worth the same if you're bottom 10% or top 10%. The lower 50% doesn't care about deficits, or fiscal responsibilities because it has absolutely nothing to do with them whatsoever. They care about social programs, minimum wage, and more money in their pocket, which is what the NDP is giving them.

If you look at the way the carbon tax is structured, they're ensuring that the bottom 60% earners get rebates to offset the rise in prices. They are going after the poor vote.

Probably more accurate to say that they don't understand how the economic performance of their betters contributes to their quality of life.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Buster


Probably more accurate to say that they don't understand how the economic performance of their betters contributes to their quality of life.

Or they got left behind, so fuck anyone that got ahead of them and they want their piece.

[Maxt]

The poor are still going to be hit, as they still use goods and services, even if they are poor. Poor being a relative term, the definition is still up in the air at this point. They haven't nailed down their rebate structure as of yet and the cutoff's...

[rage2]

Originally posted by Buster
Probably more accurate to say that they don't understand how the economic performance of their betters contributes to their quality of life.
That's not true at all. Their quality of life is improving with NDP changes. Higher minimum wage, more programs they can take advantage off, less user fees. They're going to continue voting in NDP because their quality of life is better.

Who cares if the rich is suffering, they haven't truly suffered until they've had to work minimum wage to support a family. No sympathy for O&G folks.

[ickyflex]

A lot of wealthy people voted in NDP as well. It isn't so clear cut I'd say.

It also depends what happens to oil over the next two years. If oil recovers and its all rosey than 2015 will be long forgotten. I don't disagree with policies implemented I just think it was done poorly. Needless to say it may have been a great strategy, get all the bs out of the way in the first year and then the election year hope to God the economy is in better shape and everyone will have forgotten.

[Buster]

Originally posted by rage2

That's not true at all. Their quality of life is improving with NDP changes. Higher minimum wage, more programs they can take advantage off, less user fees. They're going to continue voting in NDP because their quality of life is better.

Who cares if the rich is suffering, they haven't truly suffered until they've had to work minimum wage to support a family. No sympathy for O&G folks.

But generally they dont' understand the connection between prosperity and the taxes used to pay for their benefits.

[msommers]

Originally posted by rage2
Who cares if the rich is suffering, they haven't truly suffered until they've had to work minimum wage to support a family. No sympathy for O&G folks.

This is the way I suspect ~99% of people outside of Alberta feel about Alberta.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by rage2

That's not true at all. Their quality of life is improving with NDP changes. Higher minimum wage, more programs they can take advantage off, less user fees. They're going to continue voting in NDP because their quality of life is better.

Who cares if the rich is suffering, they haven't truly suffered until they've had to work minimum wage to support a family. No sympathy for O&G folks. It's hard to feel sorry for people who can't sell their million dollar listings hehe

[msommers]

Originally posted by Buster


But generally they dont' understand the connection between prosperity and the taxes used to pay for their benefits.

I really disagree. It's also insulting to assume that 'generally' people who don't make that much money don't understand how taxes work. It's completely about lower incomes not giving a shit if you as a high earner are affected or not.

My facebook feed of people making over 150K thinking they were going to be taxed at 50% and hating the government.....

[guessboi]

Is this the time to low ball and buy a million dollar+ listing? :D

[Strider]

Relevant piece on false consensus.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/rachel-notley-false-conservative-consensus-1.3373830

Definitely applies around here with the disproportionate ratio of 6 figure ballers captured in the Beyond demographic. Once in a while I'll wander over to the cesspool of r/Calgary and realize how different the demographic/mentality is over there.

[msommers]

Wow this is crazy:


In that same 25-year period, the per cent of Calgarians with a bachelor's degree doubled.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Strider
Relevant piece on false consensus.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/rachel-notley-false-conservative-consensus-1.3373830

Definitely applies around here with the disproportionate ratio of 6 figure ballers captured in the Beyond demographic. Once in a while I'll wander over to the cesspool of r/Calgary and realize how different the demographic/mentality is over there.

From that article:


but in truth there's very little to suggest it was a careless or temporary act on the part of Calgarians.

Yet reality and the rest of his statements say otherwise.

[Gman.45]

The lower 50% doesn't care about deficits, or fiscal responsibilities because it has absolutely nothing to do with them whatsoever. They care about social programs, minimum wage, and more money in their pocket, which is what the NDP is giving them.

Wisest post in the thread. Unfortunately I agree. It's the same reason Obama won a 2nd term, when after the debates all the polls showed Romney in a huge lead. Precisely the same reasons as the NDP won, and why they could win again.

[Type_S1]

Originally posted by Gman.45


Wisest post in the thread. Unfortunately I agree. It's the same reason Obama won a 2nd term, when after the debates all the polls showed Romney in a huge lead. Precisely the same reasons as the NDP won, and why they could win again.

Don't forget the high paid bloated public sector riding the NDP gravy train to retirement....not just poor people vote for them.

[ExtraSlow]

You guys have identified a couple of pretty strong voter blocks, but I would also say that people turned off of the current provincial conservative options due to either a) ineptitude or b) distasteful "lake of fire" type attitudes are also major factors.

No election is won or lost on a single issue, and the most recent Alberta election certainly wasn't fought on fiscal ground alone.

[Buster]

Originally posted by Strider
Relevant piece on false consensus.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/rachel-notley-false-conservative-consensus-1.3373830

Definitely applies around here with the disproportionate ratio of 6 figure ballers captured in the Beyond demographic. Once in a while I'll wander over to the cesspool of r/Calgary and realize how different the demographic/mentality is over there.

Terrible article by a terrible "news" outlet.

I took a quick result through the results for the Calgary MLAs. There were only TWO clear NDP winners over combined WRP/PC vote, and 1 tie in the city.

Everywhere else would have seen a single right of centre candidate beat and/or decimate the NDP candidate. This is probably true even if an unsplit right would not have been additive of the WRP and PC. (Which it almost certainly would be to a high degree - of the people that voted either PC or WRP I doubt more than a tiny percentage had the NDP as their second choice.)

This is at the height of the NDP popularity and riding a protest component that is somewhere greater than zero. Since then, the NDP has performed poorly, lost a ton of popular support, and almost certainly has seen a lot of protest vote drained from their side.

The ONLY way the NDP win the next election is if the right can't figure out how to unsplit the vote.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Don't forget the high paid bloated public sector riding the NDP gravy train to retirement....not just poor people vote for them.

:bigpimp:

[codetrap]

.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Type_S1


Don't forget the high paid bloated public sector riding the NDP gravy train to retirement....not just poor people vote for them.

Yeah, it's fucking awesome. :bigpimp:

[phreezee]

^^^lolz 1 facepalm vs. 2 pimps hahaha
Might as well flaunt it.:thumbsup:

[Cos]

.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by phreezee
^^^lolz 1 facepalm vs. 2 pimps hahaha
Might as well flaunt it.:thumbsup:

I work at a school. Not too worried about my job with this government!

[rx7_turbo2]

What happened in my riding tends to contradict the article.

I had to go back to the polls after Prentice tucked his tail between his legs and ran.

Although the NDP downplayed the loss they threw everything they had at it. Including dragging out a well known and thought to be well liked candidate in Bob Hawksworth. Yet a relatively unknown WR candidate named Panda, who had a couple of big blunders during his campaign won. If you look at the numbers the NDP actually lost ground in this riding from only a few months prior.

A lot of people are convinced a second NDP term is out of the realm of possibilities. I'm not sure that's the case, I think as long as the truly conservative faction of this province continues to split votes, another NDP term is entirely possible.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


A lot of people are convinced a second NDP term is out of the realm of possibilities. I'm not sure that's the case, I think as long as the truly conservative faction of this province continues to split votes, another NDP term is entirely possible.

So perhaps Smith and her followers were not wrong after all?

[Cos]

.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Cos


Yeah I don't agree with the article either.

And like I said, the article doesn't even agree with itself.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Cos
If everyone voted accurately I would have expected an NDP opposition or NDP minority.

That was my expectation as well.

[Seth1968]

The NDP never expected to win.

Now it's like, "Oh shit, we won and have no idea what we're doing, or how to implement our pie in the sky ideology".

[Cos]

.

[A790]

Originally posted by Cos
Now I know I had no reason to think that but apparently I gave them more credit than they deserve.
You'd think that they'd look at the past and determine their strategy wasn't successful long term. Of course, when they don't do that, you can't help but wonder why they refuse to learn from their mistakes.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Cos


I think they expected to win, but expected to have a minority so lots of opposition to help them through it. I have to admit the one thing I hoped they wouldn't do they seem to be doing. I know everyone said 'look at what they've done in other provinces' but I hoped they would be smart enough to go. "Hey, we tried hardline in Sask, BC, Ontario, and we got voted out in a hurry. Maybe in Alberta, especially being as right wing as it is, if we want to get back in we should take an easy and measured approach".

Now I know I had no reason to think that but apparently I gave them more credit than they deserve.

anyways :hijack:

I'm sick of this right wing / left wing BS. It's just a guise to divide the people.

Prudence, logic, and humility. All void in our so called "leaders".

Welcome to Capitalism and Plutocracy.

[Cos]

.

[Buster]

Originally posted by Cos


Yup, I was too positive it would seem (so far anyways). Hopefully someone sits them down and gives them a proper talking to. WR and PC's are probably loving this though.

I actually think they are just as horrified as the rest of us.

[suntan]

Originally posted by A790

You'd think that they'd look at the past and determine their strategy wasn't successful long term. Of course, when they don't do that, you can't help but wonder why they refuse to learn from their mistakes. Roy Romanow tried to talk to them but Notley went "LA LA LA LA" with her ears closed the whole time.

[Strider]

Originally posted by Cos
Yeah I don't agree with the article either.

I don't necessarily agree with the article, but I do believe that a lot of us share the false consensus with "Henry".
We have a large demographic of 6 figure NDP hating ballers here on beyond, and I'll bet all of our social circles are fairly like minded. But it's easy to forget about the strength of the "lower 50%ers" vote.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Strider
Relevant piece on false consensus.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/rachel-notley-false-conservative-consensus-1.3373830

Definitely applies around here with the disproportionate ratio of 6 figure ballers captured in the Beyond demographic. Once in a while I'll wander over to the cesspool of r/Calgary and realize how different the demographic/mentality is over there. That's a terrible, terrible article.

Fact is, 34% vs. 30% in a FPTP election system is literally the difference between winning a majority and being the official opposition. That's the whole point of FPTP in fact: There's a tipping point whereby a strong majority is formed even if there's no majority popular vote. Junior high social studies FTW!

[Maxt]

Everyone should have a read of the Alberta NDP's constitution.