BC condo owners file human rights complaint

[speedog]

BC condo owners file human rights complaint after board meeting held in Mandarin (link (http://globalnews.ca/news/2417019/richmond-homeowners-claim-non-mandarin-speakers-excluded-from-strata-council/)) - so at what point does our country's official languages act have to be enforced? This certainly is an interesting case and probably is something we'll see more of in the future.

Personally, I really don't have an issue with the multicultural society that Canada is becoming but I do take issue when someone opts to use another non-official language to deliberately and conveniently not be able to communicate with me - case in point, last Sunday while I was in the checkout line at grocery store I asked the couple behind about an item in their cart that I had no real knowledge of and how they used it. They apparently were unable to understand my English and weren't able to communicate in English, so be it but interestingly enough when they got up to the cashier they were both able to communicate in perfect English with no difficulties at all. That is just plain ignorant in my books and certainly further cemented my view of the asses they opted to be at that moment in time.

Anyhow, back to condo story - issue or non-issue?

[bjstare]

It's absolutely an issue. If you live in our country, learn to speak our language. If a person wants to speak their native language in a social setting/at home, it absolutely makes sense. When it comes to things like your example, however, it's outrageous they get away without speaking English (unless, of course, every single board member was fluent in mandarin, and they published meeting minutes in english. I sincerely doubt that happens though.)

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by cjblair
It's absolutely an issue. If you live in our country, learn to speak our language. If a person wants to speak their native language in a social setting/at home, it absolutely makes sense. When it comes to things like your example, however, it's outrageous they get away without speaking English (unless, of course, every single board member was fluent in mandarin, and they published meeting minutes in english. I sincerely doubt that happens though.)

It's Richmond, I don't doubt 80-90% of complex is Mandarin speaking.

Still, that's discrimination. You should conduct any meeting in English or French. Mandarin isn't an official language. Sure it'll make things go smoother for the 80%, but discriminate against the 20%.

[suntan]

Gwailow too dumb to learn Asian language.

[rage2]

I knew it was Richmond before I even clicked the link. You can probably file human rights violations for not being served in English at most of the stores in Richmond too. It isn't even Chinatown there, it's China lol.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by Xtrema


It's Richmond, I don't doubt 80-90% of complex is Mandarin speaking.

Still, that's discrimination. You should conduct any meeting in English or French. Mandarin isn't an official language. Sure it'll make things go smoother for the 80%, but discriminate against the 20%.

:werd:

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by speedog
case in point, last Sunday while I was in the checkout line at grocery store I asked the couple behind about an item in their cart that I had no real knowledge of and how they used it. They apparently were unable to understand my English and weren't able to communicate in English, so be it but interestingly enough when they got up to the cashier they were both able to communicate in perfect English with no difficulties at all.

The condo board thing is a story, but in your grocery store example, they are under no obligation to entertain your queries about what they are buying or how they plan on using it. Your intrusion may have been seen as rude and thus ignored. Or, their language skills could be like mine when sent abroad for work. I had 2-3 weeks warning and learned enough for greetings, to order food, successfully make retail transactions, etc, but if you went 'off script' and started asking me about crap I was buying, I wouldn't have got a word of it.

[suntan]

Yes, clearly the couple didn't want to talk to him, and he infers that it means they don't understand English.

Christ fucking almighty.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by speedog
case in point, last Sunday while I was in the checkout line at grocery store I asked the couple behind about an item in their cart that I had no real knowledge of and how they used it. They apparently were unable to understand my English and weren't able to communicate in English, so be it but interestingly enough when they got up to the cashier they were both able to communicate in perfect English with no difficulties at all. That is just plain ignorant in my books and certainly further cemented my view of the asses they opted to be at that moment in time.

Chinese doesn't want trouble. Random approaching for a friendly chat is a small town Canadian thing but consider as trouble in most Chinese's mind, especially someone who is fresh off the boat.

While I understand the mindset, I think it's rude to not respond at all.

[askcleo]

Originally posted by suntan
Yes, clearly the couple didn't want to talk to him, and he infers that it means they don't understand English.

Christ fucking almighty.

Or they found out his post about hating ethnic drivers double parking at those converted ethnic schools taking over his inner city neighborhood. Or his lack of love for snow tires.

[speedog]

Originally posted by suntan
Yes, clearly the couple didn't want to talk to him, and he infers that it means they don't understand English.

Christ fucking almighty.

Good to know that you were there to observe what happened instead of making assumptions.

BTW, merry fucking Christmas to you too.

[suntan]

Originally posted by speedog


Good to know that you were there to observe what happened instead of making assumptions.

BTW, merry fucking Christmas to you too. You were there and you, by our own admission, got it wrong. :dunno:

[speedog]

Originally posted by askcleo


Or they found out his post about hating ethnic drivers double parking at those converted ethnic schools taking over his inner city neighborhood. Or his lack of love for snow tires.
Wow, reading isn't your best skill apparently - never once have I said I have an issue with ethnic drivers double parking, rather I have an issue with anyone that double parks.

As far as snow tires, I have readily acknowledged on these forums that they are a better choice in winter driving conditions - don't know why that means I have to either love or not love them. Better yet, why would someone even bring up snow tires in a thread that has nothing to do with them, how is it even relative?

[speedog]

Originally posted by suntan
You were there and you, by our own admission, got it wrong. :dunno:
Holy shit, your sentence makes no sense at all - 'by our own admission'?

[suntan]

By your own admission, sorry.

Feel better now?

[speedog]

It seems that some have conveniently missed the fact that the couple I questioned were quite able to communicate in English as well as I can - never once did I say or infer that they could not communicate in English, just that they chose not to.

More amusing is the fact that some have assumed it was a Chinese couple

[suntan]

They apparently were unable to understand my English and weren't able to communicate in English, so be it

[speedog]

Originally posted by suntan
By your own admission, sorry.

Feel better now?
Holy crap, are you just plain dumb?

The couple relayed to me that they were unable to understand me or communicate in English and then were able to communicate with the cashier in perfectly good English - exactly how is that me getting something wrong. They used gestures and another language to try to convey that they didn't understand English and then communicated quite fine in English with the cashier.

I am totally confused here, I don't have any prejudice against this couple aside from the fact that they used the 'no understand English' thing out of convenience to them. Christ, people complain about the negativity in people in Calgary and I get shit upon because of an experience I relayed in which I did nothing wrong unless communicating with another human being is wrong.

[suntan]

So the other language, you understood, otherwise how did you know that they didn't understand English?

Also what's the gesture for not understanding English?

[speedog]

Originally posted by suntan
So the other language, you understood, otherwise how did you know that they didn't understand English?

Also what's the gesture for not understanding English?
It's quite apparent that what you're wanting to discuss has nothing to do with this thread's topic and as such, I'm not going to engage you further with that bull shit. My mistake for muddying the waters in my original post, that should have been just left out and I apologize for that.

Anyhow, back on topic...

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by suntan
So the other language, you understood, otherwise how did you know that they didn't understand English?

Also what's the gesture for not understanding English?
i have to knock on peoples doors every now and then to get into their yard. i see the " no English hand gesture" or what i assume it is cause they dont speak back in English and point to there mouth or ears. and then shut the door.

[gwill]

I'm surprised that condo board allowed non board members to show up to a meeting. I tell people to f*** off politely when they want to crash my board meetings. Like it or not if you didn't volunteer to be on the board you don't have any right to show up to a meeting to do as you please.

Either your involved or not involved with the community you live in.

I'm also surprised a board member provided any comment to the newspapers. That won't serve them well when it comes to the complaint that's been filed. They deserve to lose for being so ignorant of basic common courtesy when it comes to the meetings.

[cloud7]

It is kind of funny that some people use the official language excuse to say that the meeting has to be either in English or French. These people should look up the official languages act and understand what it covers. If the board members voted to have the meeting carried out in Mandarin, then it doesn't have to be carried out in English. That's how democracy works right?

[gwill]

It's an easy way to make a discrimination case by doing what they did. The simple thing would have been to tell those owners to f*** off. There is no obligation to have them there. Had they done that the language issue would have been a non issue.

It is typical Chinese bs where common courtesy is lost on them. They purposely do this to make people feel awkward and unwanted. IMO they deserve whatever punishment comes there way.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Originally posted by cjblair
It's absolutely an issue. If you live in our country, learn to speak our language. If a person wants to speak their native language in a social setting/at home, it absolutely makes sense. When it comes to things like your example, however, it's outrageous they get away without speaking English (unless, of course, every single board member was fluent in mandarin, and they published meeting minutes in english. I sincerely doubt that happens though.)

absolutely wrong. I have lived in HK for past 2 years now and I have met many foreigners that have lived here for years (some even born here) and cant even slur a full sentence. Local Hong Kongers have to speak English for the foreigners convenience. How is this fair?

[codetrap]

.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Originally posted by codetrap
Huh? How the heck does that justify not learning the native language in Hong Kong or in Canada? You make no sense.

I didnt say that it is justified... just saying thats the way it is

[SKR]

Originally posted by speedog
last Sunday while I was in the checkout line at grocery store I asked the couple behind about an item in their cart that I had no real knowledge of and how they used it.

What answer could you have gotten, if they did answer? "I don't know ma'am, as you can see we don't yet own this particular product, so I can't really tell you how we use it."

[max_boost]

They didn't want to talk to some middle aged random white dude. It's okay! Don't take it personal man lol

[Black Gts]

Not sure of this is on or off topic, but iIdon't know where else to put this, maybe the Christmas thread. Quick back story my family does a pot luck for Christmas and I like to show my skills, so anyways I'm buying my ingredients and the recipe calls for 3.5 cups of half and half. So I'm looking at all the sizes of half and half not sure how many ml in a cup. I look over and see a older white lady who I assumed like baking. Totally racial profiled this lady, she was helpful and told me to get the bigger carton. At first I felt a little bad, but then I understood all the times the police pulled me over to check registration. Hmm maybe that belongs in a cop bashing thread lol:rofl:

[ExtraSlow]

Old white ladies aren't all expert bakers, you fucking racist!

[revelations]

"Strata" laws in BC are quite a bit different from AB. What will happen with the case in Richmond (surely, not the only one) is that an interpreter will be required at the (AGM) / open board meetings.

Thats one reason I had to get out of Vancouver, the Mainlanders ruined it for everyone - even the local born/raised Chinese folk.

[speedog]

Well, as it appeared that there is still one non-Mandarin speaking person on that particular condo board, they will most likely have to hire an interpreter for every board meeting. I wonder, at the same time, how many of the Mandarin speaking board members are able to communicate in English or would an interpreter have to hired in a reverse situation? If there were two people on the board that only spoke Russian, would an interpreter also be required for them?

And what of Calgary, surely there must be condo buildings where this same situation might be a possibility. If so, how are things handled likewise?

[heavyD]

Sounds to me like they purposely got rid of the Caucasian members on the board so they could conduct things amongst themselves in Mandarin. That in itself is kind of sketchy no matter what your opinion is of the entire language thing.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by revelations


Thats one reason I had to get out of Vancouver, the Mainlanders ruined it for everyone - even the local born/raised Chinese folk.

qft


Originally posted by Power_Of_Rotary


absolutely wrong. I have lived in HK for past 2 years now and I have met many foreigners that have lived here for years (some even born here) and cant even slur a full sentence. Local Hong Kongers have to speak English for the foreigners convenience. How is this fair?

Do you know that English is the official legal language in HK until 1974? And Chinese isn't fully official until 1997?

on the street nobody is expected to speak in English but all legal docs are in English at the very minimum.

Now Canada's official languages are English and French and expected all business to operated under them.


Originally posted by heavyD
Sounds to me like they purposely got rid of the Caucasian members on the board so they could conduct things amongst themselves in Mandarin. That in itself is kind of sketchy no matter what your opinion is of the entire language thing.

That's the joy of attached living everywhere.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Originally posted by Xtrema


qft



Do you know that English is the official legal language in HK until 1974? And Chinese isn't fully official until 1997?

on the street nobody is expected to speak in English but all legal docs are in English at the very minimum.

Now Canada's official languages are English and French and expected all business to operated under them.



That's the joy of attached living everywhere.

Do you know its 2015? 1997 is sadly almost 19 years ago. Legal documents are still in English, and street signs still have English. However, this does not mean locals need to make an effort to accommodate those who do not speak Cantonese.

My point is if condo people in Vancouver need to speak Mandarin to accommodate those who do not understand English, then I dont see the damn fucking problem.

[P_D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0x6vIAtFcI

[egmilano]

Originally posted by Power_Of_Rotary


Do you know its 2015? 1997 is sadly almost 19 years ago. Legal documents are still in English, and street signs still have English. However, this does not mean locals need to make an effort to accommodate those who do not speak Cantonese.

My point is if condo people in Vancouver need to speak Mandarin to accommodate those who do not understand English, then I dont see the damn fucking problem.

I just want to point out its 2016 and youre communicating in ENGLISH.

[ZenOps]

The times they are a changin' Technically it used to be important that everyone had the ability to fill out their own tax form (ability to do basic math) Nowadays, there are computers and professional tax services for that. Its possible to have a masters in Math now, and still screw up your taxes.

Arguably, the history of North America language has always taken a second place to taxes, miners and farmers were a mishmash of European and Asian languages just a century ago. Almost no one knows the native languages either.

To assume that everyone spoke English in the "old days" is outright wrong. The invention of the "standard US keyboard" layout and the internet, pushed far more people to English in the last couple decades or so. You do not want to be using the 800 or 2000 symbol Chinese keyboard, lol.

The conversion from cursive is pretty much complete. The 26-character alphabet is surprisingly efficient when typing, as we only have 10 fingers. That and I will outright say that Europeans have difficulty with memorization, more than half of the population having difficulty remembering where 26-characters are physically placed on a keyboard (not to sound racist, but its scary how difficult it seems for some)

Far more important is Legalese, which is more derived from Latin - and is gibberish in English.

Commonality does not make something valuable. That more people know English - does that make it more or less valuable that a "Notch" Minecraft Persson who knows Hexadecimal. With that said, Rob Anders is the least valuable commoner I know.

Computer languages > Math > Legalese > English.

And the only reason English is good today is that its only 26-characters (and the ridiculously important "space" which we dedicate two thumbs to)

Stupidest key? The "Enter" key or 27-character which we regulate to the weakest finger moved to the right. For those who type 120 wpm or faster, they might want to remap the colon : as enter.

Want to hire the best employee in a tech field? Look for the muscles on their right pinky finger. Million or billion dollar ginormous pinky finger.

[ZenOps]

http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/332/archaic-language-in-modern-contracts-plain-language-vs-legalese.php

Legal documents are not English BTW. Its deceptive to those who are trying to learn English only to find out that the legal profession does not use it.

If your intention is to understand legal documents (such as for business, real estate, etc.) forget English, start with Latin. Latin Satanic scripture more accurately describes criminal law (render, tender, etc)

"Default" meaning completely different things in Computer language, Legalese, and English.

In China "Default" is more along the lines of the computer "default" or "everything running normal at regular settings". Completely different from Donald Trumps Legalese "default" which means "make sure you don't pay anyone back the money that you owe them."

Noone uses the English meaning of "default" anymore, it might even be French de-"faux"