Has your office/company laid people off? PART 4

[Xtrema]

New thread 2016 with new poll.

[Cos]

.

[killramos]

Another No and No, but was No and Yes for a little while in December.

[vengie]

Laid off 33% this time last year, but we finished the year very strong (hired ~25%), wage deductions still in effect. The company has very strong books coming into 2016, and our share price actually increased (private company). Here's hoping for the best in 2016...

[BavarianBeast]

No and no. We just paid a company wide dividend of 28% which was the lowest in 10 years. Still have lots of work in the books and even more upcoming.

[riander5]

Originally posted by BavarianBeast
No and no. We just paid a company wide dividend of 28% which was the lowest in 10 years. Still have lots of work in the books and even more upcoming.

Where is the no and no and increasing dividend and hiring more people?

I want an option

[Cos]

.

[spikerS]

Yes and Yes. I was shocked to hear the lay off of 1500 people announcement at Telus in November, and shocked again mid December to hear that there was going to be more in mid January.

[roopi]

No and No

[nzwasp]

Was laid off from Telus mid November, found contract work a week later. Hopefully will pick up a new contract in april / may after this one ends.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by spikerS
Yes and Yes. I was shocked to hear the lay off of 1500 people announcement at Telus in November, and shocked again mid December to hear that there was going to be more in mid January.

The amount of accounts and projects they lost on the service side, I'm not surprised about layoff, just the scale.

[speedog]

Originally posted by spikerS
Yes and Yes. I was shocked to hear the lay off of 1500 people announcement at Telus in November, and shocked again mid December to hear that there was going to be more in mid January.
Are all of these 1500 truly considered layoffs because I've heard from some old coworkers who are still that there's some people who will be leaving through voluntary early retirement packages - I would have been in that category (voluntary early retirement package) if I hadn't resigned a number of years ago.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by speedog

Are all of these 1500 truly considered layoffs because I've heard from some old coworkers who are still that there's some people who will be leaving through voluntary early retirement packages - I would have been in that category (voluntary early retirement package) if I hadn't resigned a number of years ago.

Oh yeah, packages were offered, some took early retirement, so that initial 1500, wasn't a TRUE 1500 layoffs, but more along the lines of the elimination of 1500 positions. Some people did get packaged out like nzwasp.

This next round, while unsure of what kind of numbers are being proposed, I imagine will be pretty much wholly layoffs.

[R154]

No, No won a few jobs in December that will keep us busy through until August.

Not looking good for a lot of our customers though. Already seen a bigger one disappear this year.

[dandia89]

was laid off, found a new job 3 months after layoff

[phreezee]

Need to capture wage/rate/workhour decreases in these polls.

[finboy]

laid off, job hunting, not a great situation but I'm hoping with the holidays over to get some traction in q1

[austic]

No and No, Bonuses and wage increases as well

[mazdavirgin]

:dunno: More layoffs this morning. Dodged the bullet once more.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by phreezee
Need to capture wage/rate/workhour decreases in these polls.

It's pretty busy poll already.

I think if you are working it's good enough, doesn't matter how much.

[blownz]

I actually just left my company voluntarily. Took an over $30K pay cut to have some less stress and get out of O&G (new company is still impacted, just not as directly). Company I was at (Multi-billion $ public company) had done tons of layoffs and had plans for tons more. I was a director and was pretty sure I was safe, but couldn't handle lying to so many concerned employees anymore. Not only had they done layoffs due to the slow down and were planning more, but they are also looking at outsourcing (and very close to testing). Lots of jobs in Calgary and Edmonton will eventually be in Oklahoma and India. The thought was that AB is just too expensive and people will be unwilling to take big enough pay cuts for where oil is at now so it will be easier to eliminate the positions in AB altogether.

Discussions regarding this with one the the big accounting firms we dealt with had a partner tell us that another billion $ O&G company in Calgary was in the process of deciding to completely pull out of Calgary.

Lots of pain for 2016 coming. :(

[suntan]

Funny, because the sentiment at my wife's work among workers has definitely shifted from "can't afford pay decreases!" to "yup, we'll take them if it means keeping our jobs!"

[suntan]

Originally posted by blownz
I actually just left my company voluntarily. Took an over $30K pay cut to have some less stress and get out of O&G (new company is still impacted, just not as directly). Company I was at (Multi-billion $ public company) had done tons of layoffs and had plans for tons more. I was a director and was pretty sure I was safe, but couldn't handle lying to so many concerned employees anymore. Not only had they done layoffs due to the slow down and were planning more, but they are also looking at outsourcing (and very close to testing). Lots of jobs in Calgary and Edmonton will eventually be in Oklahoma and India. The thought was that AB is just too expensive and people will be unwilling to take big enough pay cuts for where oil is at now so it will be easier to eliminate the positions in AB altogether.

Discussions regarding this with one the the big accounting firms we dealt with had a partner tell us that another billion $ O&G company in Calgary was in the process of deciding to completely pull out of Calgary.

Lots of pain for 2016 coming. :( Devon?

[lasimmon]

^^ Doubt it. Does Devon have workers in Edmonton?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by suntan
Funny, because the sentiment at my wife's work among workers has definitely shifted from "can't afford pay decreases!" to "yup, we'll take them if it means keeping our jobs!"

Because people finally figured out 70% is still better than 0% or they start the realize the quality of people off work is pretty damn good.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by suntan
Funny, because the sentiment at my wife's work among workers has definitely shifted from "can't afford pay decreases!" to "yup, we'll take them if it means keeping our jobs!"
I was totally expecting them to cancel/decrease our flex days starting 2016... didn't happen (so far). Still have our bonus announcement on Jan 30, and will see if we get a raise higher than inflation this February.

[killramos]

Well its not like flex days cost the company anything...

Pretty dumb thing to take away from people in this environment unless they are trying to initiate attrition. If anything i would think they would give more away due to lessened workloads and they are a free bone to give to struggling employees.

[suntan]

They show up as a liability on the balance sheet, so the dumber accountants in some companies think that removing a non-cash amount somehow makes a difference to investors.

[suntan]

Originally posted by sabad66

I was totally expecting them to cancel/decrease our flex days starting 2016... didn't happen (so far). Still have our bonus announcement on Jan 30, and will see if we get a raise higher than inflation this February. Were you around for the bonus announcement a few years ago when they declared a bonus of no bonus?

[Feruk]

First time I've had to vote YES and YES.


Originally posted by killramos
Well its not like flex days cost the company anything...

Pretty dumb thing to take away from people in this environment unless they are trying to initiate attrition.
Agreed it's stupid. Oh yeah, my company's doing it...

[spikerS]

Originally posted by suntan
Were you around for the bonus announcement a few years ago when they declared a bonus of no bonus?

That was the year my bonus was $250 before taxes...I should be thankful though, that year many people got squat.

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by killramos
Well its not like flex days cost the company anything...

Pretty dumb thing to take away from people in this environment unless they are trying to initiate attrition. If anything i would think they would give more away due to lessened workloads and they are a free bone to give to struggling employees.

How does a flex day not cost a company money? They pay you not to work...?

[killramos]

And you really think taking away those 3 days a year (or whatever it ends up being) is generating that much revenue for the company that taking them away is a material impact to the company?

Everyone i know who has ever had flex days is on salary. Its not like people were going to take unpaid days off if they didn't get the flex days. They get the same amount of money a year. Get the same amount of work done. But its just a nice bone to throw people for some added flexibility in their lives. Effectively costing the company nothing in the process.

If the employees are hourly that's a different story. But in all likelihood they aren't.

:dunno:

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by killramos
If anything i would think they would give more away due to lessened workloads and they are a free bone to give to struggling employees.
Our company is struggling, let's pay our employees to take days off! :rofl:

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by killramos
And you really think taking away those 3 days a year (or whatever it ends up being) is generating that much revenue for the company that taking them away is a material impact to the company?

Everyone i know who has ever had flex days is on salary. Its not like people were going to take unpaid days off if they didn't get the flex days. They get the same amount of money a year. Get the same amount of work done. But its just a nice bone to throw people for some added flexibility in their lives. Effectively costing the company nothing in the process.

If the employees are hourly that's a different story. But in all likelihood they aren't.

:dunno:

I know of companies making people take 1 day per quarter, or month or even per pay cheque unpaid.

So yes those companies obviously feel 4 days a year or more is worth something.

[killramos]

Just because a company does something doesn't mean they have a good reason to do it. And forcing unpaid days off is different as that has a direct cash flow impact.

I asked if you think that the increased productivity, and as such revenue, of nerfing flex days is material to a company at the end of the day. Do you think it is?

I bet you its not. In fact there are plenty of studies that suggest exactly the opposite. That those little bones thrown to employees have marked INCREASES in productivity. Especially in a high stress climate such as the one we are in.

I know if i didn't show up to work tomorrow it wouldn't cost the company anything. Its not like they hire a temp for when i take vacation. I just make up the work when i get back.

Nerfing flex days because times are tough is a poorly thought through and knee jerk style of human resource management.

To each their own :dunno:

[leftwing]

Voted Yes and not likely. Company cut 3% of workforce late 2015, but it was more or less trimming the fat and was all management, no field staff. I was a full time employee on contract and my contract ended mid-december, wont be resigned until mid January I am being told although I feel it could be later. Needless to say I am technically laid off and collecting EI.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by killramos
Nerfing flex days because times are tough is a poorly thought through and knee jerk style of human resource management.

You are right, 5 days of flex is only 2% and it's just liability and not real opex.

It is more to show investors that you are doing EVERYTHING you can to keep cost down. How ever little that impact is.

You have to also count productivity. If 2% productivity is gained, you can also start looking at laying off extra 2% staff.

Now I can understand moral will suffer which in the end may hurt productivity but that isn't as measurable as payroll reduction.

[adam c]

Flex days are used to replace the ability for people to call in sick as that often gets abused since it's not tracked and still paid, so it actually saves a company money and increases employee moral since Jane doesn't have the ability to take an extra 4 weeks of vacation a year while Peter never calls in sick

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by adam c
Flex days are used to replace the ability for people to call in sick as that often gets abused since it's not tracked and still paid, so it actually saves a company money and increases employee moral since Jane doesn't have the ability to take an extra 4 weeks of vacation a year while Peter never calls in sick

Meh, Flex day is merely a tool to attract talent during good times. The effectiveness of such perk is debatable.

I am not ever going to question sick day in a white collar environment. If you need it take it. Flex isn't a replacement for that.

[g-m]

MoralE

Moral is the underlying message of a nursery rhyme. Or how 'just' one is. Morale is the happiness level of a group.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by suntan
Were you around for the bonus announcement a few years ago when they declared a bonus of no bonus?
nope, only been here for 5 years. I believe in 09 we met all our targets but the CEO adjusted it significantly downward (about half). The year after he adjusted it significantly upward, and then I started in 2011... just missed it.

regarding flex days - we get 17 per year so it's fairly significant. That said, barely anyone is able to take them all, and if they do and are anything like me, you end up working extra long/hard the day before so it kinda evens out. That said, they are really nice to have. I made that comment because I heard Encana/cenovus cancelled their EDOs so thought we might be next, and conveniently announced at the beginning of the year. I guess it can still happen at any point during the year especially if oil prices don't improve.

[adam c]

Originally posted by g-m
MoralE

Moral is the underlying message of a nursery rhyme. Or how 'just' one is. Morale is the happiness level of a group.

Meh whatever, you still knew what I was talking about


Side note, I find out tomorrow if I still have a job or not

[R-Audi]

Dont expect additional layoffs at my work, but they didnt pay bonus as per usual schedule (Last cheque in Dec) and instead of paying out remaining holidays they are being carried over. Still no word if or when any bonus will be coming.. hurts as the bonus makes up a fair chunk of my wage. (30%)

[Sugarphreak]

...

[adamc]

Haven't thought about O&G for months. New industry, starting at close to the bottom, looking forward to going to work every day which is a completely new concept for me.

Constantly catching myself thinking about how I made roughly 5x more in O&G hurts, though.

More motivated than ever, not looking back.

[kaput]

.

[schurchill39]

I had our VP explain the flex day situation to me when they took ours away last year (then implemented forced days off). "How can we as management lay people off, and in the same breath pay people to not work? If we have enough money to pay everyone to take a day off then we should have enough money to keep employees".

Its virtually the same liability as vacation pay ie they pay you not to work. The incremental increase/ decrease in productivity is negligible because its not something that can be measured. I agree that it might help with morale, but it hurts the company in the books (which is what is important to the investors and banks). Sick days are not planned therefore not a "premeditated" liability (for lack of a better term).

As for my company we've done lay offs and expect more. They will keep whittling us down, I just hope they stop axing all of our field staff. Its very interesting to see which departments get hit the hardest and which don't get touched. Its very apparent which facet of management has the most pull when it comes to saving their employees.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by schurchill39
I had our VP explain the flex day situation to me when they took ours away last year (then implemented forced days off). "How can we as management lay people off, and in the same breath pay people to not work? If we have enough money to pay everyone to take a day off then we should have enough money to keep employees".
I've heard this explanation. It's total bullshit. Layoffs (typically) have nothing to do with being able to "keep people", but rather to ensure they're not overstaffed for the amount of work coming in. If there isn't work for people, they're not kept regardless of what the company can afford.

[nzwasp]

Cenovus still paid a bonus out which surprised me. However they paid it in late December so their employees would not get hit with taxes as hard for the new tax legislation in 2016, I dont know why companies care so much....

Incidentally now that my wife has gone back to work she said that her floor of the bow is a ghost town, it used to be full with no offices vacant and now there is around 10 people on her floor.

[Disoblige]

Change Bow to apartment space. Profit?
The new tallest residential tower in Calgary :rofl:

[nzwasp]

Yeah just follow in what Telus is going to do with that building across the street.

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Cenovus still paid a bonus out which surprised me. However they paid it in late December so their employees would not get hit with taxes as hard for the new tax legislation in 2016, I dont know why companies care so much....

Incidentally now that my wife has gone back to work she said that her floor of the bow is a ghost town, it used to be full with no offices vacant and now there is around 10 people on her floor.

CNRL paid bonus in December too.

[Manhattan]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Cenovus still paid a bonus out which surprised me. However they paid it in late December so their employees would not get hit with taxes as hard for the new tax legislation in 2016, I dont know why companies care so much....

Wouldn't this create a huge tax liability in 2015 given that 2014 bonus was also paid out in the same year?

[nzwasp]

It was really odd actually because the bonus letter assumed that your personal % was a certain amount and that the balance of your bonus would be paid in 2016 after personal performance % had been calculated, and if you didnt obtain that performance % then pay would be withheld.

If so much lies on what performance % you got why even bother to give your employees partial bonus in December.

[suntan]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Cenovus still paid a bonus out which surprised me. However they paid it in late December so their employees would not get hit with taxes as hard for the new tax legislation in 2016, I dont know why companies care so much....

Incidentally now that my wife has gone back to work she said that her floor of the bow is a ghost town, it used to be full with no offices vacant and now there is around 10 people on her floor. So I guess only the dumb accountants survived Cenovus' layoffs.

[suntan]

Originally posted by schurchill39
I had our VP explain the flex day situation to me when they took ours away last year (then implemented forced days off). "How can we as management lay people off, and in the same breath pay people to not work? If we have enough money to pay everyone to take a day off then we should have enough money to keep employees".

Its virtually the same liability as vacation pay ie they pay you not to work. The incremental increase/ decrease in productivity is negligible because its not something that can be measured. I agree that it might help with morale, but it hurts the company in the books (which is what is important to the investors and banks). Sick days are not planned therefore not a "premeditated" liability (for lack of a better term).

As for my company we've done lay offs and expect more. They will keep whittling us down, I just hope they stop axing all of our field staff. Its very interesting to see which departments get hit the hardest and which don't get touched. Its very apparent which facet of management has the most pull when it comes to saving their employees. This VP needs to be laid off. What a fucking idiot. Christ fucking almighty companies are still run by morons.

[navdeep]

BP paid Bonus as well

[speedog]

Originally posted by suntan
This VP needs to be laid off. What a fucking idiot. Christ fucking almighty companies are still run by morons.
And yet the fucking idiot/moron has a job and probably a considerably larger income and bonus. Please note that I'm not defending these people but...

[suntan]

Originally posted by speedog

And yet the fucking idiot/moron has a job and probably a considerably larger income and bonus. Please note that I'm not defending these people but... Peter principle, dude...

Large companies follow the bell curve for intelligence...

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Manhattan


Wouldn't this create a huge tax liability in 2015 given that 2014 bonus was also paid out in the same year?

Just because someone is paid well, does not in the slightest mean they understand how taxes work. Which is embarrassing. :facepalm:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by suntan
So I guess only the dumb accountants survived Cenovus' layoffs.

May not work for you but it may work for them if they think 2015 is going to be way better than 2016 and just write off the bonus in 2015 for tax purposes.


Originally posted by suntan
This VP needs to be laid off. What a fucking idiot. Christ fucking almighty companies are still run by morons.

Again, I don't work in HR. There must be a reason. May be they are trying to implement work share program (forced day off?) so they can get a few $ from EI.

I don't know how Flex day will impact calculating work units and eligibility of work share program.

It's easy for people to complain from the bottom when they don't know the benefit of these decisions. Sure, a lot of decisions are just plain idiotic but unless you work close to it, it may make some sense at some level.

[suntan]

Dude, I'm the guy at the top. I make these sorts of decisions too.

Wanna really lower your employee liability? Drastically lower insurance benefits. That shit costs a fuckton - way more than flex days.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Xtrema


May not work for you but it may work for them if they think 2015 is going to be way better than 2016 and just write off the bonus in 2015 for tax purposes. The fucking point of accrual accounting makes this strategy worthless.

[sabad66]

Originally posted by Manhattan


Wouldn't this create a huge tax liability in 2015 given that 2014 bonus was also paid out in the same year?
It depends on income level. If you were already near the new bracket of 200k, say 170k, then you're better off getting your bonus in 2015. That way in 2016 you won't reach the new bracket and pay a higher rate.

[birdman86]

Originally posted by suntan
Dude, I'm the guy at the top. I make these sorts of decisions too.

Wanna really lower your employee liability? Drastically lower insurance benefits. That shit costs a fuckton - way more than flex days.

None of this has to do with a decision to replace paid flex days with unpaid flex days.

Two unpaid flex days/month is equivalent to a 10% salary reduction for M-F workers. That goes straight to earnings, which goes straight to debt covenants, which goes straight to going concern/solvency.

If you think that's the only lever decision makers are pulling you need to read the title of this thread again...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by sabad66

It depends on income level. If you were already near the new bracket of 200k, say 170k, then you're better off getting your bonus in 2015. That way in 2016 you won't reach the new bracket and pay a higher rate.

I bet that's why Cenovus did it in 2015. It's not about employee making less the $200K. It's the multi-million $ executives who want to skip extra 5% of taxes. :rofl:

[Dumbass17]

4 people got laid off at my work. Might have been performance related and a good excuse to use the economy as a reason for lay off, though.

[suntan]

Originally posted by birdman86


None of this has to do with a decision to replace paid flex days with unpaid flex days.

Two unpaid flex days/month is equivalent to a 10% salary reduction for M-F workers. That goes straight to earnings, which goes straight to debt covenants, which goes straight to going concern/solvency.

If you think that's the only lever decision makers are pulling you need to read the title of this thread again... What on earth are you talking about? Places have removed paid flex days and replaced then... with nothing! WTF is an "unpaid flex day"? Everybody else calls that "part-time work".

Now if you think that reducing a non-cash liability actually matters, holy shit maybe take first year accounting.

[Manhattan]

Originally posted by sabad66

It depends on income level. If you were already near the new bracket of 200k, say 170k, then you're better off getting your bonus in 2015. That way in 2016 you won't reach the new bracket and pay a higher rate.

Jesus...what % of people are cenovus are earning near 200K?

[nzwasp]

Im betting atleast 20+ % of people at Cenovus make more than 200k. Atleast the majority of engineers will (total package that is so pay + bonus + psu cash)

I would think calgary wide it would be super common for people working in oil and gas to make more than 150k with their pay + bonus and other cash benefits.

Maybe we need a beyond salary survey.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by birdman86
Two unpaid flex days/month is equivalent to a 10% salary reduction for M-F workers. That goes straight to earnings, which goes straight to debt covenants, which goes straight to going concern/solvency.
No such thing as an unpaid flex day... :rofl: They're paid salary, so it doesn't matter if it's a work day or a flex day from how much it costs the company. They're either getting paid in the office or at home that day.

[birdman86]

Originally posted by Feruk

No such thing as an unpaid flex day... :rofl: They're paid salary, so it doesn't matter if it's a work day or a flex day from how much it costs the company. They're either getting paid in the office or at home that day.

Fair enough haha, that other post mentioned replacing flex days with unpaid time off though so it's basically the same thing in practice...at least that's how it worked where I'm at (I'm salaried)


Originally posted by suntan
What on earth are you talking about? Places have removed paid flex days and replaced then... with nothing! WTF is an "unpaid flex day"? Everybody else calls that "part-time work".

Now if you think that reducing a non-cash liability actually matters, holy shit maybe take first year accounting.

Salary isn't a non-cash expense though, so all I'm saying is cancelling a flex day and replacing it with unpaid time off is a cash item. And when a company is looking at violating their debt covenants ie. minimum earnings to interest coverage ratios then you bet it does count towards that.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by birdman86


flex day and replacing it with unpaid time off is a cash item

I think what you are missing is that the people we are talking about (the type of people that typically participate in flex days/earned days off) are paid on salary.

So unless there are salary reductions, it changes nothing. There is no such thing as "unpaid time off" if you are salary, unless you make an agreement to go on a unpaid leave of absence (in which you don't get your salary).

I get paid $XX,XXX per year. If they took away my EDO's, I'd still get paid $XX,XXX per year.

The only reason to take away the EDO's, would be to also do layoffs as the removal of the EDO's should allow for higher productivity per employee.

If you don't do these things in combination, then taking away just flex days makes ZERO sense. Which was what the original post made about this point was pointing out. It's a stupid, knee jerk reaction.

Edit-
After re-reading the post, I think I may have just re-explained what was already said. If so, my apologies.


Originally posted by birdman86


that other post mentioned replacing flex days with unpaid time off though so it's basically the same thing in practice...at least that's how it worked where I'm at (I'm salaried)

That person took a salary cut. I don't think that was the same thing being discussed.

[Rat Fink]

.

[blownz]

Originally posted by Xtrema


I bet that's why Cenovus did it in 2015. It's not about employee making less the $200K. It's the multi-million $ executives who want to skip extra 5% of taxes. :rofl:

Exactly. These decisions are made for the top 5%.

And for the others, their bonus typically isn't enough to make much of a difference tax bracket wise.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by nzwasp
Maybe we need a beyond salary survey.

Any survey that encourage e-penis measuring can never be trusted.

But Herald said in 2014 that $125K is average of O&G.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/alberta/Alberta+wages+surged+young+chose+work+over+school+Statistics/9382798/story.html

[mr2mike]

I thought concensus was always, InRich wins.

[nzwasp]

I dont care about averages - median's is where its at.

[schurchill39]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

That person took a salary cut. I don't think that was the same thing being discussed.

I believe what Birdman was trying to explain is that at his company they took away flex days (essentially paid time off), and then they were given a salary cut in the form of forced days off. So instead of just cutting their salary for the same expected time they also had to take time off. I guess another way to view it is they got to keep their flex days, but took a pay cut. (At least that's what happened at my employer).

All was quiet today it seems like (besides Transcanada suing the Obama Administration)

[suntan]

Originally posted by schurchill39


I believe what Birdman was trying to explain is that at his company they took away flex days (essentially paid time off), and then they were given a salary cut in the form of forced days off. So instead of just cutting their salary for the same expected time they also had to take time off. I guess another way to view it is they got to keep their flex days, but took a pay cut. (At least that's what happened at my employer). He's a very, very confused person.

Two things happened to him:

They took away his flex days.
They reduced his pay and hours.

Only the second item matters from a cash standpoint.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by nzwasp
I dont care about averages - median's is where its at.

APEGGA salary survey should provide that for engineers. Quick google seem to be median of $90-$100K for the 3 western provinces, with BC on the low end and Alberta on the high end.

[schurchill39]

Originally posted by suntan
...

EDIT: Never mind... not worth my time feeding this guy's obvious anger issues.

[CompletelyNumb]

Originally posted by suntan
He's a very, very confused person.

Two things happened to him:

They took away his flex days.
They reduced his pay and hours.

Only the second item matters from a cash standpoint.

That's correct.

If you don't put a value on your time. Otherwise working more for the same pay could be considered another pay cut if you work out your hourly.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by CompletelyNumb


That's correct.

If you don't put a value on your time.

Usually people working salary don't get paid OT (hence being salary). So if anything, it kind of balances out.

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by suntan
He's a very, very confused person.

Two things happened to him:

They took away his flex days.
They reduced his pay and hours.

Only the second item matters from a cash standpoint.

This makes sense if you don't add any value while you work.

[mr2mike]

I can tell you that forced days off leads to you working more hours on the days you are at work. At my company at least.

[Cos]

.

[cancer man]

Me and my Work Mate are now switching 2 days on 3 days off.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Cos
We have a posting for a Sr. Biztalk analyst and I am hearing rumors of a couple more postings for various positions. PM me for details if you know how to run Biztalk and understand these acronyms (I don't, haha).



These guys are hard to come by. Especially at the level needed.

[Cos]

.

[spikerS]

Some of the people that used to be under the same manager as I was up until November Just got offered packages this morning. Not sure who else or how many other people are in the same boat at TELUS today.

Cuts are not over yet.

[holden]

Originally posted by spikerS
Some of the people that used to be under the same manager as I was up until November Just got offered packages this morning. Not sure who else or how many other people are in the same boat at TELUS today.

Cuts are not over yet.

Do you know if any of the Telus people that worked at Suncor have been let go? I know a guy (I think network architecture) that said he was coming back to Telus after Suncor ended their contracts.

[suntan]

Originally posted by schurchill39


EDIT: Never mind... not worth my time feeding this guy's obvious anger issues. Pfft. Yeah, I guess I do annoyed when people can't figure out basic accounting worth shit.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by holden


Do you know if any of the Telus people that worked at Suncor have been let go? I know a guy (I think network architecture) that said he was coming back to Telus after Suncor ended their contracts.

No, I don't.

I know there is another conference call right now where more announcements are expected to be made.

[mazdavirgin]

:dunno: More layoffs today over at Telus as per some friends of mine who work in the engineering groups.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
:dunno: More layoffs today over at Telus as per some friends of mine who work in the engineering groups.

yep, another 250 packages have been offered across ops and engineering, but they are not expecting that many to take the packages.

The rules are that if you want to offer packages to someone, you have to offer it to the whole department.

My guesstimate is that they are expecting about 10-15% to accept the packages.

[Cos]

.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Cos


Oh all in scope positions now?

for a lot of it. They are wanting to trim everything down in the name of efficiency.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by spikerS
My guesstimate is that they are expecting about 10-15% to accept the packages.

I don't know what Telus is expecting, didn't they package out a lot of people that are ready to retire last year? Do they actually expect more will take it now the market is worse?


Originally posted by holden


Do you know if any of the Telus people that worked at Suncor have been let go? I know a guy (I think network architecture) that said he was coming back to Telus after Suncor ended their contracts.

I think when AHS contract ended, some Telus guys are offered to stay in AHS as employees since AHS is insourcing anyway.