Renting a room to a buddy - Protecting Myself [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

killramos

01-12-2016, 08:30 AM

So i know beyond is full of experienced landlords so i was wondering if people can give me some advice on a situation I am considering.

So a buddy of mine went through a pretty bad breakup ( 4 yr relationship ) last march, lost basically everything and got kicked out of his place over it. He also had to quit his job which was nearby since at the time he didn't have a car or money for a car. So he has been living with his parents since and has really managed to turn things around with a new good paying job. A car etc.

Anyhow he has overstayed his welcome at his parents place ( empty nesters weren't really planning on having their mid 20's son back in their home long term) and they want him to find a new place to live. He doesn't want to blow all his money on rent and furnishing a place right now ( wants to get his own place within a year or so) so I mentioned to him that he can maybe rent out my furnished guest room for a nominal fee.

Its a win-win right now with the oil market and job uncertainty on my part, and I have so much space that he would have his own decent sized room with a walk in closet and dedicated full bathroom.

Anyhow my only concern is I want to protect myself here legally as a landlord. I don't know how the rules work about renting a room in my own home which i own and reside in.

As a note he is completely trustworthy as a friend, known him for like 9 years, best man at my wedding. He ends up being over at my place 2-3 times a week as it is. Wife is also very on board with him being around. Doesn't hurt that hes a trained red seal chef :drool:

Reading some FAQ's etc. if I go Month-Month I have to give him 3 months notice to move out as I read things? I think i will collect a nominal damage deposit ( considering I am living there it would just be to damage to the room ). I am planning on giving him an all in price inc utilities, internet, rent, etc.

As a landlord does this count as income legally? If so that's not a problem i just want to know for record keeping purposes. I want everything above board.

pheoxs

01-12-2016, 08:45 AM

Draw up a simple month to month lease just for the sake of having paperwork as a pre-caution, takes all of 5 minutes to sit down and sign.

The standard lease I use is as you said, you have to give him 3 months notice to move out (unless its an eviction notice for say non-payment of rent and such, those are different) while he only has to give 1 months notice to move out.

Definitely take a one month deposit, if he's a buddy just use it as his last months rent when he moves out or whatever.

Technically yes it would be considered income, however there are provisions for renting under fair market value. If he has access to the full house (aside from bedrooms) then you are reasonably splitting the house 50/50. If the interest on your mortgage payment (principal payments don't count) + utilities + taxes + insurance + maintenance costs are at least double what you are charging them, then you are reasonably renting for under fair market value and it does not need to be included in your income (because you could offset it by deducting half of the above). That being said its best to keep track just incase. I keep a spreadsheet of all my utilities and such (its also handy seeing how much of a money pit a home is :thumbsdow somedays)

You should make him get tenants insurance, its like 15$ a month and covers you for liability.

killramos

01-12-2016, 08:56 AM

^Good note on the under fair market, I will definitely be collecting well under half of those things. What I am planning on charging him doesn't even cover interest ( still a nice bonus for me ).

Also good note on tenants insurance.

What do you guys think about including something that precludes him from having someone else live with him. I don;t know if that is something is is covered by standard. Basically i want it clear up front that i don't want him to let some girl stay with him in my place ( Me giving him a break and being lenient to him doesn't extend to some hypothetical bitch i don't know).

Are there any implications for my home owners insurance? Do i need to tell them he is moving in if he is getting tenants insurance?

Feruk

01-12-2016, 09:09 AM

This whole idea sounds bad for you... You're making almost no cash to have someone in your space for an undetermined period of time. You'll be coming home to see dirty dishes and his junk lying around everywhere. He'll be bringing chicks over and you'll get to listen to some chick moaning while your floor vibrates. He'll be watching reruns of Judge Joe Brown on your TV! He'll drink your beer and promise to "buy you more someday bro"... but that day never comes! Big cramp on your space.

Roommates are great when they're a win-win for both parties. This sounds like a losing situation for you. He's got a job and a car; he can afford housing.

Also, if wife is "very on board" for having him around, I'd be even more scared. :rofl:

killramos

01-12-2016, 09:20 AM

^ Just because I'm not charging fair market rent ( which in Calgary is asinine ) doesn't mean Its not a good chunk of cash on my end. Its Just a bit under the interest on my mortgage.

All for a guy who works 6 days a week on 12 hour shifts, he really just wants a place to sleep.

I do understand your point though, I have the same reservations.

I do understand the pop culture potential issues:

https://media.pathe.nl/nocropthumb/1600x900/gfx_content/allocine/medias/nmedia/18/51/91/you-me-and-dupree_33879.jpg

blitz

01-12-2016, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by killramos
He also had to quit his job which was nearby since at the time he didn't have a car or money for a car.

WTF? Does he have legs? If he doesn't have legs, he should at least have a wheelchair.

Sounds like a bad idea and a good way to sour a relationship with a friend. He should rent a cheap basement suite for a year or two.

killramos

01-12-2016, 09:25 AM

lol the commute was macewan to quarry park on restaurant hours ( ie no bus service home etc.)

He had a new job closer to home a week later.

msommers

01-12-2016, 09:29 AM

Market prices are dirt cheap right now.

Personally I wouldn't. But on the other hand if he was a roommate he basically has no rights lol.

rx7boi

01-12-2016, 09:30 AM

Blow all his money on rent and furnishing? Are those his words or yours?

IMO when someone has options but they don't want to take them, it's generally because they don't want to give up a lifestyle either.

- He has a good job again, hopefully secure and stable.
- He has a car.
- He'll be spending money whether he rents from you or if he rents a room in a basement suite.

Why does he have to live with you? Like Feruk said, you'll have someone in your personal space all the time now. In fact, it sounds like you are charging him a way better rate than a non-friend landlord would.

The only difference is that he'll have access to pretty much your whole house instead of just his basement and more leeway to do so because you guys are good friends.

If you are both happy with what is being offered on the table and what each of you get in return, then don't be afraid to do it up.

Just something to consider :)

bjstare

01-12-2016, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by rx7boi
Blow all his money on rent and furnishing? Are those his words or yours?

IMO when someone has options but they don't want to take them, it's generally because they don't want to give up a lifestyle either.

- He has a good job again, hopefully secure and stable.
- He has a car.
- He'll be spending money whether he rents from you or if he rents a room in a basement suite.

Why does he have to live with you? Like Feruk said, you'll have someone in your personal space all the time now. In fact, it sounds like you are charging him a way better rate than a non-friend landlord would.

The only difference is that he'll have access to pretty much your whole house instead of just his basement and more leeway to do so because you guys are good friends.

If you are both happy with what is being offered on the table and what each of you get in return, then don't be afraid to do it up.

Just something to consider :)

:werd:

Besides, if his own parents don't even want him around, what makes you think you'll want him around? The only way I'd do this is with a concrete end date (like 3 months or something).

Besides, now that your married, you should just enjoy the time with your wife. As on-board as she may be, this is going to put a strain on your relationship (whether you think so or not).

Just want to make sure you're going in, having considered all aspects.

Masked Bandit

01-12-2016, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by killramos
[B

Are there any implications for my home owners insurance? Do i need to tell them he is moving in if he is getting tenants insurance? [/B]

Technically yes. Even if he has tenant insurance there can be issues with your home insurance if he goes nuts and wrecks some stuff on purpose. Hopefully if you know the guy fairly well that shouldn't be a concern though.

bulaian

01-12-2016, 09:38 AM

What made him overstay his welcome at his parents house?

Doesn't that worry you that he may do the same to you?
-You say he lost his place last March, assuming he lived with his parents since then(10 months).
-Assuming the schedule is on pace for him to move out again in a year or so. You'll be in it for longer than he's been at his parents for.

403Gemini

01-12-2016, 09:40 AM

I'm watching some friends go through his right now.

Bit of backstory: When I moved out I moved into a buddies house with another friend (so 3 guys in a house, party house right? WOO!)

Was the worst thing I did, nearly broke up all of our friendships - one of them is my best friend and it almost ruined that - the other guy was friends with my best friend since high school , and now they are hardly on a talking basis.

You find little things that will nitpick you, putting dishes away, not cleaning, not shoveling, etc.

With a wife/girlfriend, she is your family - or at least having sex with you, so you can tend to over look some of these things and it's easier to work out an agreement - with friends, it often becomes passive aggressive stand offs (or protest "I'm not cleaning AGAIN!" fights where you hold out to see if the fuckers actually realize they need to do something too).

SO I'm against it and wouldn't recommend it.

Back to my friends who just got into this about 6 months ago, even after my warnings - it's straining their marriage. The wife doesn't feel like she can ever leave the master bedroom since the roommate just wants to bro out all the time and the husband feels obligated to do it.

They're getting into fights with EACH OTHER, about the roommate using dishes/cooking pans , not cleaning them, so they have to constantly order out - even confronting him, he does it for a week or two, then stops.

It's sort of become the "Hang out house" too, since 2 of the friends live in the 1 house (husband + roommate), so the roommate is constantly having people over and hogging the living room. Husband doesn't mind since he is getting in on watching sports / playing video games with the group of friends, which they used to rotate homes so it wasn't a big deal.

Things are getting damaged (knicks in walls, baseboards damaged, bathroom that roommate uses hasn't been cleaned since he moved in).

Now the roommate has a girlfriend and has her over 4-5 nights a week , which he's only been with her for about 1-2 months and my friends aren't too keen on this (she's about 8 years younger, so I mean good for the roommate right? :devil: but she's very immature and even brings her friends over to hang out and they're eating all of the food).

Like I said, it creates a tremendous strain, as much as you and your wife will have it in your minds that you're on the same team, your vote will always out weigh his, it's tough. It's very tough to confront a friend to tell them "Smarten the fuck up" , because it can ruin a good friendship.

My vote is, avoid it. He can find his own place to live like a big boy.

403Gemini

01-12-2016, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Masked Bandit

Technically yes. Even if he has tenant insurance there can be issues with your home insurance if he goes nuts and wrecks some stuff on purpose. Hopefully if you know the guy fairly well that shouldn't be a concern though.

This is another thing.

If you go away for a holiday , leave him behind, and the home you come back to is dirty as shit , or a few holes in the wall (like lets say cigarette burns on the floor from him having friends over, door gets opened too hard handle smashes into drywall and breaks door stopper, stove had food over cooked and gets caked into it) - you can't really file an insurance claim over this all as 1 claim - it's not considered "Vandalism" , since Vandalism is described as "Malicious damage" (ie. did he have criminal intent doing this out of spite), no he just lived like a slob asshole - and each one of those damages is a separate claim, subject to a separate deductible.

mr2mike

01-12-2016, 10:00 AM

Avoid it. Overstayed with parents because he wasn't saving any money up. They probably saw he was off partying weekend after weekend.

You stay with parents after a bad divorce or breakup to recoupe some cash so you can move out. I'd say 6 months with a job, anyone would have enough for damage deposit and rent. He's just unwilling to sacrafice anything in his lifestyle.

You're getting suckered. Tell him sorry. Letting someone move into a property is easy. Getting them out... pretty hard to do.

blitz

01-12-2016, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by mr2mike
I'd say 6 months with a job, anyone would have enough for damage deposit and rent. He's just unwilling to sacrafice anything in his lifestyle.

Yup, he just sounds spoiled and entitled. Actually now I understand why they're good friends :rofl:

Sorry Killramos, but you have been coming across extra douchey lately.

jwslam

01-12-2016, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by blitz
Yup, he just sounds spoiled and entitled. Actually now I understand why they're good friends :rofl:

Sorry Killramos, but you have been coming across extra douchey lately.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I've actually been contemplating letting a buddy stay with me as well. Fairly different situation though so maybe I'll start a new thread instead of derailing this one if that plan ever comes to fruition.

suntan

01-12-2016, 10:27 AM

Are room rentals covered under the Alberta Tenant Act?

Hmm, guess not.

http://www.landlordandtenant.org/roommates-and-subletting/

tirebob

01-12-2016, 11:01 AM

As someone who has put up friends multiple times, I have had good and bad experiences. Just be aware it can potentially wreck a friendship, especially when it is a business transaction. It shouldn't of course, but it is almost inevitable that some issue will occur straining a good friendship. If you do it, my best advice would be to have a clear end date of the arrangment, or you may end up with a basement troll you have to deal with every day making you feel uncomfortable in your own house.

My best experiences helping a friend was exactly that. Helping a friend. No money was expected yet they would buy groceries, take us out for dinner here and there etc. I never wanted to accept money because it totally changes the dynamic, whether you know it will or not. Friends and business can be a test on the friendship...

Xtrema

01-12-2016, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by tirebob
As someone who has put up friends multiple times, I have had good and bad experiences. Just be aware it can potentially wreck a friendship, especially when it is a business transaction. It shouldn't of course, but it is almost inevitable that some issue will occur straining a good friendship. If you do it, my best advice would be to have a clear end date of the arrangment, or you may end up with a basement troll you have to deal with every day making you feel uncomfortable in your own house.

My take as well. Friendship ends when there is money involved.

Personally, I can't stand more than a 2 week stay.

killramos

01-12-2016, 11:37 AM

Yea when he got kicked out i offered to let him stay ( free of course) and he didn't want to impose when his parents were offering.

I appreciate all the advice guys. I think i need to give this some more thought. Maybe my help as a friend should be more focused on helping him find a place and move than taking him in.

Skidro

01-12-2016, 12:00 PM

OP sounds like you want to help him but letting him move in doesn't sound the way to do it, I personally wouldn't want to be a landlord over a friend

403Gemini

01-12-2016, 12:14 PM

Money does often become an issue, and a friend will sometimes inadvertently take advantage of it.

Going back to my friends - with Christmas that just happened, since the guy got his girlfriend, he's been spending all his money on her and buying her shit + big christmas presents , then he asked if he could pay his rent 2 weeks late...

Additionally you need to keep in mind things like bandwidth limit for internet - the new roommate has exceeded it so many times because he downloads everything that he watches , so they ended up just adding on the extra $15/month for unlimited internet. Small cost, but it all adds up (like extra power , sewage, water)

R!zz0

01-12-2016, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by killramos
Maybe my help as a friend should be more focused on helping him find a place and move than taking him in.

It's the best thing you can do as a Friend to him.

Rocket1k78

01-12-2016, 01:09 PM

If you value this friendship then dont let him stay with you. Theres a reason everyone is saying its a bad idea.

no more privacy for you both. Sex wont be the same knowing that hes a couple doors down
he's probably also going to be taking advantage of sites like tinder and pof so you know theres going to be ladies coming back
I did this when we first moved out and let my wifes sister move in and nothing bad happened but it did change how we acted in the house.

If his own parents cant keep him that says alot imo

spikerS

01-12-2016, 02:06 PM

I am going to buck the trend here and say go for it.

it helps you out, it is helping your friend out, and it is obviously a good friend otherwise he would not have been the best man at your wedding.

He isn't a deadbeat, has schooling, training and a job. Makes decent money, so that should never be an issue.

You are giving up some privacy, but I mean you are already close with him anyways.

He will help you out on the mortgage, probably get a couple of really nice dinners, and frees up some of your own cash.

Only thing I would do, and has already been suggested, is set an end date to the tenancy. It can always be reviewed later if things are going well and extended, or, you know when things are gonna be done and over.

I did it, and I had a bad experience, but only because I was trying to motivate the guy to get a job. He wanted to spend more time playing video games than leave the house, so it didn't end well, but I would do it again, but they would have to be pretty good friends.

spike98

01-12-2016, 02:19 PM

I had a really good experience helping a buddy out. The company he had been working for over seas closed up shop and his work visa got pulled. He had to move back in a hurry with almost nothing. I put him up for free in my one bedroom 600sqft apartment until he got back on his feet.

I did however have to beg and plead the guy though because although he had nothing and nowhere to go, he didnt want to impose. The guy had a job before he landed on canadian soil and only spent about 6 weeks until he had a beater cavi to get him to work and enough for a place of his own.

This was a different circumstance however and i feel my experiences aren't the norm.

The rule of thumb is never mix money with your relationships. It may turn out ok, but the damage that can be done if it doesnt is often not reparable.

Swank

01-12-2016, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Rocket1k78

he's probably also going to be taking advantage of sites like tinder and pof so you know theres going to be ladies coming back
Fuck that, it's still his house, tell the friend straight up NO STRANGERS ALLOWED, go bang at the broad's place. That rule alone may make the friend think twice. No way I'd want strangers coming into my house, cuz you can bet the first time you lose something you start thinking theft and it's a slippery slope from there.

As others have said, it's a huge risk with the friendship, make sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

lasimmon

01-12-2016, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Swank

Fuck that, it's still his house, tell the friend straight up NO STRANGERS ALLOWED, go bang at the broad's place. That rule alone may make the friend think twice. No way I'd want strangers coming into my house, cuz you can bet the first time you lose something you start thinking theft and it's a slippery slope from there.

As others have said, it's a huge risk with the friendship, make sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

Pretty tough if you want to charge him rent though.

gwill

01-12-2016, 03:27 PM

This is pretty simple and so many people are making this seem like such a bad idea. I had a roommate live in my one condo for a few years and it worked out well for the most part. Either you will like the scenario or you won't and if you don't then you ask him to leave.

Do a move In and move out inspection and definitely take a deposit. When my roommate moved out he said he would steam clean my carpets but he never did but I didn't take a deposit so I was hooped.

I would suggest adding a lock onto your door for your bedroom so that there is always a safe place to put things. Make sure it's not one of the cheap handle locks that can be pushed open easily. One friend had his best friend rob him of a bunch of stuff that was hidden in his bedroom hence this suggestion.

Disoblige

01-12-2016, 03:34 PM

Gotta judge how that person is. I have a group of really close friends. A couple of them are the most considerate people I know and I wouldn't hesitate to let them live at my place for a while. A couple others, even though they are close, I wouldn't let him stay at all due to their lifestyle/habits.

So yeah, it might or might not work. And for me, if I felt there was even a slightest chance of it not working, I would just not even bother. I don't want to ruin a friendship over something like this, and I'm not a forgiving person lol.

max_boost

01-12-2016, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Disoblige
Gotta judge how that person is. I have a group of really close friends. A couple of them are the most considerate people I know and I wouldn't hesitate to let them live at my place for a while. A couple others, even though they are close, I wouldn't let him stay at all due to their lifestyle/habits.

So yeah, it might or might not work. And for me, if I felt there was even a slightest chance of it not working, I would just not even bother. I don't want to ruin a friendship over something like this, and I'm not a forgiving person lol.

Yup. :werd:

People are resilient and will survive anyway. Don't go outta your way IMO. No one knows the situation so you decide for yourself.

And worst case scenario your friend has no rights anyway because he's living with the landlord (you) so you can boot him out anytime. Tenancy act doesn't apply.

Good luck.

blitz

01-12-2016, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by gwill
This is pretty simple and so many people are making this seem like such a bad idea.... .

...one friend had his best friend rob him of a bunch of stuff that was hidden in his bedroom hence this suggestion.

lol

gwill

01-12-2016, 04:38 PM

^lol that does look hilarious.. But the point is protect yourself from that happening. Put a lock on the door where you may have something you don't want taken. In my friends case it was gold/silver bars and American money. It should have been locked up in a roommate scenario.

revelations

01-12-2016, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by blitz

Sounds like a bad idea and a good way to sour a relationship with a friend. He should rent a cheap basement suite for a year or two.

I would have to second this - unless you are completely isolated from them, working with and living with friends is a whole new game.

spike98

01-12-2016, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by gwill
^lol that does look hilarious.. But the point is protect yourself from that happening. Put a lock on the door where you may have something you don't want taken. In my friends case it was gold/silver bars and American money. It should have been locked up in a roommate scenario.

Having to consider putting a lock on your bedroom door is a huge red flag. I wouldnt even entertain allowing someone to live with me if this needed to be considered.

msommers

01-12-2016, 05:12 PM

Yeah that's pretty crazy :nut:

A790

01-12-2016, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by spike98

Having to consider putting a lock on your bedroom door is a huge red flag. I wouldnt even entertain allowing someone to live with me if this needed to be considered.
If you are living with someone and DON'T have a lock on your door that's simply naive.

gwill

01-12-2016, 05:17 PM

^if your considering a room mate best to protect yourself. Get the lease in writing, get a deposit, clarify how you'll handle scenarios your not comfortable with and put a lock on your bedroom door... All it does is avoids any awkward conversations that may come up.

Don't like drugs? Put no drug use allowed. Don't want sketchy bar chicks flopping at your house all the time? Put it in the lease....

Its just extra ammo in case of a dooms day roommate scenario that many seem to have had.

Dalking

01-12-2016, 05:48 PM

Don't do it. Just don't. Save yourself the heartache and ruining of a broship.

403Gemini

01-12-2016, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by A790

If you are living with someone and DON'T have a lock on your door that's simply naive.

Not really if it's a friend that you should be able to trust.

One of the guys I did live with (my best friend), he ended up moving out of his last place because his prior roommate was going onto his computer and looking through his files and going into his email and shit (his roommate at that time told ME this... like I wasn't going to tell my best friend...)

But yeah, when the 3 of us moved in together, just became tension after about 6-12 months learning each others quirks, but that said we did respect each others space and NEVER want into each others rooms.

Don't like drugs? Put no drug use allowed. Don't want sketchy bar chicks flopping at your house all the time? Put it in the lease....

Tough to say, cause you can easily say no narcotics , or pets, or smoking since drugs are illegal and tenants act respects landlords right to worry about allergies and such with things like pets and smoking.

Having a "no sluts" clause? Well, it's not really illegal, and if you're renting out the house - he's paying for space, so he has SOME rights.

It's also tough to confront your buddy about this if he just does it one night. You can be be the "tough landlord" , but then we're treading into the territory of potentially losing a friend over this.

It's very easy to SAY what you would do / how you should treat your buddy as a roommate, and how they should respect YOUR house - it's a very different thing when you're put in the situation of trying to enforce it / tread around it lightly with somebody you care about.

And the clause of "if it doesn't work out, just kick him out" is difficult when you tell him "Get out of my house this isn't working out... but beer & wings next week?" lol , nope. You'll certainly lose the friend.

Calgaryscot

01-12-2016, 06:08 PM

Not sure that any contract you guys sign will be worth anything? I believe renting a room comes under the "inn keepers act" If you want him out, he's out, no notice required!

A790

01-12-2016, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by 403Gemini

Not really if it's a friend that you should be able to trust.

One of the guys I did live with (my best friend), he ended up moving out of his last place because his prior roommate was going onto his computer and looking through his files and going into his email and shit (his roommate at that time told ME this... like I wasn't going to tell my best friend...)

But yeah, when the 3 of us moved in together, just became tension after about 6-12 months learning each others quirks, but that said we did respect each others space and NEVER want into each others rooms.
Business is business and should be conducted that way. It sets everyone's expectations and establishes a divide between what is acceptable and what isn't.

You never really know someone like you think you do. They may have vices, addictions, beliefs, influences, etc. well beyond what you think you understood.

Something as simple as securing your room could be the literal difference between sleeping soundly and being robbed blind.

I honestly can't think of a single good reason not to do it.

Rocket1k78

01-12-2016, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by 403Gemini

It's very easy to SAY what you would do / how you should treat your buddy as a roommate, and how they should respect YOUR house - it's a very different thing when you're put in the situation of trying to enforce it / tread around it lightly with somebody you care about.

And the clause of "if it doesn't work out, just kick him out" is difficult when you tell him "Get out of my house this isn't working out... but beer & wings next week?" lol , nope. You'll certainly lose the friend.

:werd:

HiTempguy1

01-12-2016, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by 403Gemini

Not really if it's a friend that you should be able to trust.

I've met people like you. They always seem to be having some difficulty in their life for some reason, usually having been too trusting in a situation that had zero benefit for themselves and every benefit for one of their "friends".

Yes, you can tell a true friend not to be bringing a different girl home every day of the week. Yes, you can tell said friend it doesn't matter if she is the same chick, limit the time.

If said friend RESPECTS you, they will listen. If they don't, who the fuck wants a friend like that anyways?

At the end of the day, killramos doesn't seem to understand women very well even though he is married :rofl: Hell, if any of my ex's asked if any of their family, even if it was blood, could stay I'd be all "fuck to the NO they can't". I'd even offer $100/month to help them get into a place of their own.