2 teens dead, 6 more injured at C.O.P. overnight

[spikerS]

EMS confirms two boys in their late teens are dead and six others teens are in hospital after a serious incident overnight at WinSport.

Paramedics were called to the bobsled or luge track area at around 1:30 Saturday morning and found two teenage boys dead on scene.

Three of the other teens were taken to hospital in stable, non life-threatening condition while three others suffered minor injuries.

Police believe at least eight teenagers, all males, entered the property after hours and used a personal sled or toboggan in an attempt to go down the bobsled track and part way down, the group hit a large gate used to separate the bobsled and luge tracks.

Accorfing to police, because of their injuries, they have not been able to identify many of the victims and, therefore, next of kin have not been notified at this time.

Investigators are working to determine how the teens entered the property and what led up to the decision to enter the closed track.

WinSport Canada is cooperating with the investigation, including supplying any CCTV footage that may assist with determining how and why this occurred.

In a statement, Barry Heck, President/CEO of WinSport says, “On behalf of WinSport, I would like to express our sincerest sympathies to the families of the two deceased. Our thoughts and prayers are with their families.”

Holy crap! so kids decide to take tobaggans down the bobsled track (i admit that does sound like fun!) but probably smoke into a barrier at some ridiculous speed and get mangled up so badly that police can't identify them...so crazy!

I can't even call this stupid as we have all probably thought about doing this at some point...

RIP to all, and sympathies to the families and friends. The parents don't even know yet...that's so rough.

http://www.660news.com/2016/02/06/two-teen-boys-dead-six-others-injured-after-incident-at-c-o-p/

[jdmXSI]

Just had seen this on the news, I was thinking the same thing in how we have all done stupid shit like this and lucky to come out relatively unscathed.

I remember when I went for a discover skeleton event, we hit upwards of a 100km/h. I couldn't imagine doing that on a toboggan.

RIP to those who passed and a speedy recovery to the other 6.

[EK 2.0]

Wow....

Condolences to the families of these kids who passed....

[jwslam]

If all of them are that mangled... who called EMS?

[spikerS]

probably security

[blairtruck]

play stupid games. win stupid prizes

[JRSC00LUDE]

Whoa.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rx7_turbo2]

So how long until a lawsuit is filed against Winsport?

Making bad choices when you're young is part of growing up. Like all choices however they come with consequences. Very sad to read this article this morning.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by blairtruck
play stupid games. win stupid prizes

[JRSC00LUDE]

Everything about that reads like a thousand things we'd do when that age. Actions/consequences/blah blah fuck off, poor kids and their families. That could be anyone of us when we were young and if you say it couldn't have been, your loss growing up. But yes, risks have rewards and penalties.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Everything about that reads like a thousand things we'd do when that age. Actions/consequences/blah blah fuck off, poor kids and their families. That could be anyone of us when we were young and if you say it couldn't have been, your loss growing up. But yes, risks have rewards and penalties.

Exactly. This sounds like something I would have tried, or any number of people I know.

They were not up to something malicious, or nefarious, this was just supposed to be a fun thrill that went sideways.

[01RedDX]

.

[03ozwhip]

This is really shitty to read. I've always wanted to do this, like others have said, never did I ever think something like this could happen.

RIP to the families, get well to the surviving kids. We all did dumb shit growing up and always thought we were invincible, this is a wake up call for kids I think.

[nickyh]

RIP to those kids who passed, and those kids that survived are going to have to live with this poor decision for the rest of their lives. A pretty heavy thing at such a young age.

It sounds like it would have been a fun thing to do, but holy smokes, what a bad decision.

[max_boost]

Holy shit. Kids will be kids but that sucks. RIP.

[schurchill39]

Originally posted by jwslam
If all of them are that mangled... who called EMS?

It sounds like police believe there were 2 more kids with them and are currently looking for them.

[Unknown303]

those two kids definitely have video of it then.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Everything about that reads like a thousand things we'd do when that age. Actions/consequences/blah blah fuck off, poor kids and their families. That could be anyone of us when we were young and if you say it couldn't have been, your loss growing up. But yes, risks have rewards and penalties.

Nailed it.

I look back at the "death defying" choices I made as a teenager, and am surprised I made it through.

[blairtruck]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Nailed it.

I look back at the "death defying" choices I made as a teenager, and am surprised I made it through.

i possibly would have done this also. but wouldn't go first for sure.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Unknown303
those two kids definitely have video of it then.

GoPro and Youtube make kids do even more stupid things.

[Buster]

Darwin awards nominees.

Sad, but Darwin Award nominees nonetheless.

[OTown]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
So how long until a lawsuit is filed against Winsport?

I hate how thats the number one thing we think about when something like this happens. To be fair I thought the same thing... But I'm not sure how this is at all Winsport's fault - the entire area is fenced off and clearly closed to the public.

[flipstah]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
So how long until a lawsuit is filed against Winsport?



If they do sue WinSport, I hope they lose.

[rage2]

Originally posted by OTown
I hate how thats the number one thing we think about when something like this happens. To be fair I thought the same thing... But I'm not sure how this is at all Winsport's fault - the entire area is fenced off and clearly closed to the public.
The starting area at the top isn't fenced off at all. I've walked right up to it and though damn it would be fun to rip down there.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Buster
Darwin awards nominees.

Sad, but Darwin Award nominees nonetheless.

I think even that statement is extreme.

Seriously, if I was standing at the top there, I wouldn't expect a gate like that, and to be honest, I am still trying to figure out how this gate is positioned in a way that the kids could be this hurt....

[Unknown303]

http://i.imgur.com/WAgVldl.jpg

[spikerS]

yeah, but they come down the point where the 2 become 1 track, they don't come down at the pointed portion...unless there was something physically in the middle of the track?

[speedog]

Originally posted by spikerS


I think even that statement is extreme.

Seriously, if I was standing at the top there, I wouldn't expect a gate like that, and to be honest, I am still trying to figure out how this gate is positioned in a way that the kids could be this hurt....

What they did would almost be akin to jumping off a cliff that you've never been to into murky waters below.

The deaths and injuries are very unfortunate and there most likely be some changes at Winsport.

What can not be denied or ignored is that these teens were undoubtedly well aware that what they were doing was wrong and that message can not be lost amid all that will come out of this and regardless of how foolhardy or reckless they may have been.

I don't know what the policies are at the track with respect to security or safety but I would imagine there are a number of Winsport employees who are raking themselves over the coals right now and they may have done absolutely nothing wrong - it is a most unfortunate situation that none of us could have ever imagined happening and so many people will be unexpectedly affected by this.

Man, this is just so difficult to think about

[asp integra]

The top of the track has 2 starting spots (luge/skeleton and bobsled) that merges into one about 1/3 the way down. Think of it like a train track that can move back and forth. If they went down the open track they probably would have been ok. In this case they went down the one that was closed, and the worst case scenario happened

[FraserB]

What is with everyone saying that this is similar to what they have done or considered doing in the past? Was committing or contemplating breaking the law that big of a part of peoples activities?

Hopefully Winsport doesn't have to defend themselves against a BS lawsuit because of the foolish and illegal actions of a few people.

[OTown]

Originally posted by FraserB
What is with everyone saying that this is similar to what they have done or considered doing in the past? Was committing or contemplating breaking the law that big of a part of peoples activities?

Hopefully Winsport doesn't have to defend themselves against a BS lawsuit because of the foolish and illegal actions of a few people.
Bleeding hearts who think everything is everyone else's fault but theirs

This is similar to the fetanyl thread. People making decisions without any regards for the consequences of their actions.

You know how this whole could have been prevented? They could just have not trespassed and not thought it was a good idea to slide down an olympic high speed bobsled track without any certified sled or any training or any foresight to actually walk the track to ensure its safe.
:dunno:

Lets put it this way... If some guy walks right off a sidewalk and into direct path of traffic outside of a crosswalk and gets ran over and killed; we dont see threads about how its not their fault and its actually the driver's fault for running them over? We dont blame society or anything else. We blame the idiot who ran into traffic without looking.

So why is this any different? People have to get out of their little 'safety bubble' and see how precious and fragile human life really is. We gotta stop blaming others for mistakes we make. People die or get seriously injured every day.

If I feel sorry for anyone here its the first responders (paramedics, fire, police) that had to witness and treat these idiots. The fact that some of these guys have such crazy injuries that they cant be identified makes me believe it was a gruesome scene. That's gotta be traumatizing.

[eblend]

Originally posted by FraserB
What is with everyone saying that this is similar to what they have done or considered doing in the past? Was committing or contemplating breaking the law that big of a part of peoples activities?


Ditto. Surprised by this as well. If I was ever this stupid to try something like this, I would at least walk the length of the track first to make sure all is clear. Like someone else said, this is no different then jumping off a cliff and not knowing what's at the bottom....if you were that stupid to do it as a teenager, then you are lucky you are alive. There is taking risks, and then there is being stupid, two very different things. I take measured risks all the time, and did a ton of them during my early years, no denying that, but if you don't even think of the possible consequences or take some measure to elevate your chances of survival, then well, shit like this happens.

I did the bobsled track just this summer at COP on a wheeled bobsled with a professional driver and the g-forces experienced were pretty unreal, although about 1/2 of the gforces and speed of a real bobsled on ice....I couldn't imagine going down that track in anything but a bobsled with a pro driver...with full helmet and safety gear..

[spikerS]

Originally posted by FraserB
What is with everyone saying that this is similar to what they have done or considered doing in the past? Was committing or contemplating breaking the law that big of a part of peoples activities?

Hopefully Winsport doesn't have to defend themselves against a BS lawsuit because of the foolish and illegal actions of a few people.

C'mon Fraser, you can't tell me that you haven't thought about what it would be like to rip down that thing with a smile on your face.

[vengie]

I've been down that track an a Bobsled and it is insane the speed and G-forces achieved. This was destined to fail from the get go. If it wasn't the separation gate then they likely would have left the track in the corner and the result would have been the same.

Just sheer idiocy the whole way.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by spikerS


C'mon Fraser, you can't tell me that you haven't thought about what it would be like to rip down that thing with a smile on your face.

Sure, during their open houses with a qualified person and proper equipment. When I wouldn't have to break the law to get to the course.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by FraserB


Sure, during their open houses with a qualified person and proper equipment. When I wouldn't have to break the law to get to the course.

c'mon man, no one believes that for a second LOL :rofl:

[Mista Bob]

Originally posted by OTown



Lets put it this way... If some guy walks right off a sidewalk and into direct path of traffic outside of a crosswalk and gets ran over and killed; we dont see threads about how its not their fault and its actually the driver's fault for running them over? We dont blame society or anything else. We blame the idiot who ran into traffic without looking.

No, we just lower all speed limits to 40 and blame the evil 4 wheel death machines when that happens.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Did exactly that as a teen, along with a ton of other stuff that I look back on as completely moronic.

I recall one kid missing the deep water and shattering his leg on the rocks in high school, but the danger of cliff jumping was always part of the thrill.

This is just typical teenager stuff gone horribly wrong

pretty much.

This is the kind of teenage behavior I would expect from my kids, give them shit for being stupid and they learn a life lesson. The cost of this lesson though was too much.

[rx7_turbo2]

CBC is reporting the two dead were twin brothers. Feel pretty bad for that family.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by spikerS


pretty much.

This is the kind of teenage behavior I would expect from my kids, give them shit for being stupid and they learn a life lesson. The cost of this lesson though was too much.

What is the reasonable cost of this life lesson?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by kertejud2


What is the reasonable cost of this life lesson?

Perhaps a lesson to others that bravado, peer pressure, and alcohol will only lead to destruction? Good luck with that.

Are you referring to something more fundamental?

[spikerS]

Originally posted by kertejud2


What is the reasonable cost of this life lesson?

:facepalm:

[max_boost]

Yea I wonder whose idea was it. :nut: The burden the remaining kids are going to have to live with is going to be a punishment in itself. Glad it wasn't me. Live and learn. :nut: :dunno:

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by max_boost
Live and learn. :nut: :dunno:

Not in this case, at least for the two brothers.

Your life is a pretty steep price to pay for adolescencent stupidity, but as has been said, choices come with consequences.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by kertejud2


What is the reasonable cost of this life lesson?



Originally posted by spikerS


:facepalm:

The facepalm to the question was my first response. Yet, I digressed and wrote a rational reply.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by spikerS


:facepalm:

Hospitalization? Minor injuries? A fine? Just a slap on the wrist from dad?

They trespassed onto a closed track designed to send people down at highway driving speed without any knowledge of what was on it. Just how much margin of error do you think there is for 'stupid kids to learn a life lesson' in such an environment?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Hospitalization? Minor injuries? A fine? Just a slap on the wrist from dad?

They trespassed onto a closed track designed to send people down at highway driving speed without any knowledge of what was on it. Just how much margin of error do you think there is for 'stupid kids to learn a life lesson' in such an environment?

Except, we already get that.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I'm not being bleeding heart about it, they paid to play. It's still awful it happened and I can relate to it from my own youth of incredibly stupid/fun choices. We didn't all live then either. :dunno:

[speedog]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
I'm not being bleeding heart about it, they paid to play. It's still awful it happened and I can relate to it from my own youth of incredibly stupid/fun choices. We didn't all live then either. :dunno:

Hear, hear, my two best high school friends died together about 5 months after we graduated in a situation they should've not placed themselves in but youth and that innocent invincibility that comes with it always seems to capture at least an unfortunate few in its grasp.

RiP to the two twins and for the rest that will be personally affected by this, let's hope that they can find some sort of solace with time.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by FraserB
What is with everyone saying that this is similar to what they have done or considered doing in the past? Was committing or contemplating breaking the law that big of a part of peoples activities?

Hopefully Winsport doesn't have to defend themselves against a BS lawsuit because of the foolish and illegal actions of a few people.

Agreed.

Reading Beyond comments always made me feel like either you guys were really stupid kids or I just had a really boring childhood with riding bikes, pogs, and gameboys :rofl: :rofl:

[taemo]

^this, although I was a nerd in HS and spent the weekend playing on the computer, safer that way to do crazy stunts

[flipstah]

Beyond: Asian nerds or rednecks. There is no middle ground.

[taemo]

btw the 2 that died were 17 year old twins, RIP and condolences to their family

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by spikerS
yeah, but they come down the point where the 2 become 1 track, they don't come down at the pointed portion...unless there was something physically in the middle of the track?

Where the two tracks meet there is a drop in barrier if you will to prevent people ricocheting if they lose control and to make sure the turn is a smooth bank. Think of it as a drop in hockey wall that gets lashed into place with steel cables. These poor kids hit that thing... I feel really sorry for the first responders who had to see that mess. I can only imagine there is going to be some PTSD...

In either case RIP far too young to be killed.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
I'm not being bleeding heart about it, they paid to play. It's still awful it happened and I can relate to it from my own youth of incredibly stupid/fun choices. We didn't all live then either. :dunno: Nah man, these kids were clearly scum, destined to live on the streets and never amount to anything. Killramos would never have associated with these guys at their age and definitely would've seen it coming.

Feeling bad for the people who died and their family is 100% pure ignorance of reality. You should be ashamed.

[flipstah]

RIP and condolences.

[benyl]

Just got an email from my kid's school about the twins. One was the student body president. It isn't just the family that is going to be messed up, there are going to be a lot of grade 12 students at two different high schools that are going to be greiving.

It's really sad. Bad decision with severe consequences.

[Kritafo]

Jordan and Evan Caldwell RIP tragic. Family, friends, school mates, teachers, responders.. all their lives changed today.

[ryder_23]

Argh awful. Can admit I did some stupid things younger. Thankful for my parents/first responders/friends it didn't end up like that. RIP boys. Heart goes out to not only family/friends but have to remember the first responders seeing and dealing with the situation. PTSD is real, to those medics/cops, hope they're doing ok as well.

[Str1der]

Terrible news. Condolences to all parties.


Originally posted by Mibz
Nah man, these kids were clearly scum, destined to live on the streets and never amount to anything. Killramos would never have associated with these guys at their age and definitely would've seen it coming.

Feeling bad for the people who died and their family is 100% pure ignorance of reality. You should be ashamed.

10/10 Mod-troll.

[FixedGear]

Terrible that it was two twins that died, I feel so sorry for their parents.

[Buster]

I don't buy the "kids do dumb things, this is typical" stuff.

That facility has been there for 30 years. This is the first time this has happened. Tens of thousands of kids have been aware of its existence during that time, and all the rest of them, without exception decided that maybe it was a bad idea to do this.

This wasn't garden variety teenage thrill seeking. This was stupidity on an epic scale.

I feel sad for the parents, of course. But these "kids" were almost adults. And they definitely weren't "victims" of anything. Some kid gets killed by a drunk driver, or cancer? That's different.

[dirtsniffer]

apparently the twins worked at COP last year. Assuming it was their idea and they knew how to get in. Probably should have known to check the track set up

RIP

[Sentry]

Originally posted by Buster
I don't buy the "kids do dumb things, this is typical" stuff.

That facility has been there for 30 years. This is the first time this has happened. Tens of thousands of kids have been aware of its existence during that time, and all the rest of them, without exception decided that maybe it was a bad idea to do this.

This wasn't garden variety teenage thrill seeking. This was stupidity on an epic scale.
:clap:

[kenny]

Originally posted by Buster
I don't buy the "kids do dumb things, this is typical" stuff.

That facility has been there for 30 years. This is the first time this has happened. Tens of thousands of kids have been aware of its existence during that time, and all the rest of them, without exception decided that maybe it was a bad idea to do this.

This wasn't garden variety teenage thrill seeking. This was stupidity on an epic scale.

I feel sad for the parents, of course. But these "kids" were almost adults. And they definitely weren't "victims" of anything. Some kid gets killed by a drunk driver, or cancer? That's different.

You assume this is the first time someone has gone onto the track after hours but in reality you've only heard about it for the first time because of the way it ended.

[AndyL]

No I can guarantee its not the first time it has happened ;)

Crazy carpets and those discs are very bad plans. Not that I would know.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Buster
I don't buy the "kids do dumb things, this is typical" stuff.



People like to make it seem like being a retard is ok so others can continue being retards. Its also horrendously patronizing and rude to try and label all kids as being "young and stupid". No, some people are just idiots with no self control. Gotta pay to play, self-preservation is sometimes a hard lesson.

And WGAF if someone was student president? Whoopdee doo. A popularity contest somehow makes someones death more tragic? Jesus beyond is fucked :nut: Sure, I did some stuff I consider stupid when I was younger, but I never did anything that had a high probability of death :nut:

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by kenny


You assume this is the first time someone has gone onto the track after hours but in reality you've only heard about it for the first time because of the way it ended.

Correct! I actually know that kids have done it before, many times.

My nephew is friends with them, he actually got invited but was asleep when they texted.

I haven't read the whole thread but it actually wasn't a gate which I've heard people saying, but a chain across the track at head height.

[FraserB]

Part of the gate is a chain. They would have hit the chain first and then been rammed into the corner between the gate and track.

Considering the two who died used to work there, you'd think they would have a clue as to how dangerous their idea was and at least checked the track.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Buster
That facility has been there for 30 years. This is the first time this has happened. Tens of thousands of kids have been aware of its existence during that time, and all the rest of them, without exception decided that maybe it was a bad idea to do this.


Originally posted by kenny
You assume this is the first time someone has gone onto the track after hours but in reality you've only heard about it for the first time because of the way it ended.


Originally posted by AndyL
No I can guarantee its not the first time it has happened ;)

Crazy carpets and those discs are very bad plans. Not that I would know.

I can also confirm its not the first time something like this was attempted. I know a group who attempted it on skis. Thankfully it was next to impossible to stay upright and gather any speed so the whole thing was scrapped and the group went to a movie instead. Well at least that's what I heard ;)

[Buster]

Originally posted by kenny


You assume this is the first time someone has gone onto the track after hours but in reality you've only heard about it for the first time because of the way it ended.

Apparently it was the first time with the gate closed.

[Buster]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


People like to make it seem like being a retard is ok so others can continue being retards. Its also horrendously patronizing and rude to try and label all kids as being "young and stupid". No, some people are just idiots with no self control. Gotta pay to play, self-preservation is sometimes a hard lesson.

And WGAF if someone was student president? Whoopdee doo. A popularity contest somehow makes someones death more tragic? Jesus beyond is fucked :nut: Sure, I did some stuff I consider stupid when I was younger, but I never did anything that had a high probability of death :nut:

The one kid went to Westmount, which as far as I can tell is the very definition of a "Special Snowflake" school.

[Seth1968]

I digress somewhat.

That is, I did some crazy stuff as a young "adult", but to go down a bobsled run in which the trained professionals fear for their life? Well, there is no drunken stage I would be in to do something that stupid.

One you can imagine, six? FFS

[Seth1968]

Guaranteed:

A law suit against the COP.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by Seth1968
Guaranteed:

A law suit against the COP.

If there is and its not tossed, it would show just how messed up our court system is.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by FraserB


If there is and its not tossed, it would show just how messed up our court system is. I wouldn't be surprised. :nut:

The kids were gonna go on and cure cancer.

COP should have done more to prevent this.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[AndyL]

Originally posted by Seth1968
I digress somewhat.

That is, I did some crazy stuff as a young "adult", but to go down a bobsled run in which the trained professionals fear for their life? Well, there is no drunken stage I would be in to do something that stupid.

One you can imagine, six? FFS

It was a passed down right of passage at abe... At least when I was there in the 90s...

When you got caught - no different than police and outdoor pools - finger wag "don't do it again" "our next patrol is in 90min dont be here" (so you'd do another run)

All information I've heard - I'd never do such things :D

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by AndyL
It was a passed down right of passage at abe... At least when I was there in the 90s...

If by abe you mean Aberhart, our stories share a common denominator;)

[AndyL]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


If by abe you mean Aberhart, our stories share a common denominator;)

Lol ;) I'd say some good times were had down there in days gone by.

With the number of people I remember running into - I would have thought it was all the schools...

Kinda too bad - reminiscing makes me want to go get an inflatable boat - those were the most fun ;)

But apparently we're out of date - I don't remember going that far up...

[codetrap]

.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Mibz
Nah man, these kids were clearly scum, destined to live on the streets and never amount to anything. Killramos would never have associated with these guys at their age and definitely would've seen it coming.

Feeling bad for the people who died and their family is 100% pure ignorance of reality. You should be ashamed.

You know there has been a lot of this bleeding heart bullshit on this forum lately.

I was watching the super bowl last night and this Budweiser drinking and driving commercial definitely resonated with me as to my views on these matters. Whether its ridiculously reckless behavior like riding down a closed bobseld track, drinking and driving, recreationally taking heavy drugs like fentanyl, or insert something stupid here. Take a fucking listen to what your purely selfish behavior means.

Rb2VXVmUga4

Dear world, stop being so colossally stupid and think before you make such horrific life decisions.

btw Alcohol is addictive as well and Alcoholism is a disease.

Let me know how many of you are going to defend the action of drinking and driving like you do the rest of this bullshit that you feel like calling me out about.

[mobius]

Originally posted by codetrap
Would stiffer consequences have discouraged this "right of passage" stunt and possibly prevented this tragedy? Now that it's happened, what can be done to prevent it from happening again? Should anything be done?

I'm not saying that it isn't sad, or a terrible thing to happen to those affected, but you can't legislate and bubble wrap away every possible thing that might harm or kill someone.

We are really very fragile creatures, and there are countless ways that we can die. If you want to ensure that no one dies from anything other than old age, then no one will really live.

Death is a fact of life. Some survive, and some don't.

[firebane]

Originally posted by killramos


btw Alcohol is addictive as well and Alcoholism is a disease.

Let me know how many of you are going to defend the action of drinking and driving like you do the rest of this bullshit that you feel like calling me out about.

I disagree. Nothing is truly addictive because if that was the case we would be ALL addicted to everything that people say is addictive.. gambling, drinking, smoking etc.

There is shit in some of our brains that becomes addicted to how something makes us feel. For some that is drinking for others that is jumping out of a plane at 30,000 feet. But you don't see everyone doing this.

Regarding what these kids done I'm not going to sit here and read through however many pages this thread is but I will say this... We have all done stupid shit in our lives and some of us miraculously survived while others not so much.

I will say though part of me surviving what I did when I was younger was simply because I had the balls to realize something was going to be far to dangerous to do and I valued my life enough to not do it.

Peer pressure and social media has changed our lives for the worst and a lot of people do stupid shit like this to gain that 5 minutes of fame. Look at all the idiots who do the cinnamon challenge or the idiotic one lately the condom challenge.

Dunno I really don't feel any sympathy for these guys because as people have said whether it was the gate that killed them or not this was not going to turn out as good as anyone would have hoped.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by rage2

The starting area at the top isn't fenced off at all. I've walked right up to it and though damn it would be fun to rip down there.

Our discover skeleton group was supposed to go the next day - but rescheduled obviously. You are now publicly invited to come have some runs! It really is an amazing thrill (on a proper sled with helmet and training). And you don't start from the top - women's luge start is enough for 90km/hr

Top tip for any other young teenagers reading - Do not take your bike to the top of the ski jump and ride down the jump.

[Masked Bandit]

With regards to the lawsuit angle, I can guarantee that A) one will be filed and B) it will be successful. From what I can gather it didn't take a master B & E artist to gain access to the giant icy slide which means in the eyes of the court, C.O.P. didn't do nearly enough to secure the area. As such they will be held liable.

Even though these kids were trespassing, the property owner (C.O.P.) still has a duty of care (legally) to ensure the grounds are safe. It's viewed by the courts that something fun like a giant icy slide is going to lure kids onto the property so there must be higher than normal security. This is the same reason why you're supposed to fence off swimming pools in private yards.

There is a lot of case law on this and frankly I'm stunned that C.O.P. didn't have this covered off already. I'm guessing shit's going to change around there.

As for the kids and the families, it's a tragedy. I'm sure a lot of us could have easily met the same fate as teenagers considering the dumb shit we pulled. These boys simply weren't as lucky. R.I.P.

[rx7boi]

Originally posted by firebane

Nothing is truly addictive because if that was the case we would be ALL addicted to everything that people say is addictive.. gambling, drinking, smoking etc.


Lol.

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by CBC News
Calgary bobsled track operator likely not liable for crash that killed teens, lawyer says
Twin boys who died had worked as 'hill ambassadors' for Winsport last winter
By Geordon Omand, The Canadian Press Posted: Feb 08, 2016 7:33 AM MT Last Updated: Feb 08, 2016 7:33 AM MT
A Calgary lawyer says it's unlikely the operator of Olympic luge-bobsled track in Calgary where two teens were killed in an after-hours run could be held legally responsible for the accident.

Peter Collins said the fact that twins Jordan and Evan Caldwell, 17, were former employees at Canada Olympic Park makes it especially improbable that site operator WinSport would be held liable for the incident.

"An owner of property who invites people on has a general obligation to make the property safe," Collins said on Sunday. "But that general obligation and liability doesn't extend in the same way to trespassers."

The Caldwell brothers were killed and six other teenage boys injured — one critically — after their sled crashed into a gate separating the luge and bobsled tracks early Saturday.

The twin brothers had worked as "Hill Ambassadors" at the facility last winter.

It's likely they would have been familiar with security protocols and known how to evade measures used to keep people off the track, Collins said.

He described the incident as tragic but said the presence of fencing and security patrols means WinSport likely took the appropriate security steps.

Occupiers' liability law in Alberta provides little protection for trespassers but does require owners to secure their property if it poses a danger to a child.

"It's one thing for an eight-year-old child to see a water slide connect to a swimming pool. If you've got some teenagers, especially older teenagers, who have very specifically worked at the facility, it would be hard to say that they didn't appreciate the risk," Collins said.

WinSport's argument that the boys were trespassers is "not necessarily a slam-dunk defence," said liability lawyer Scott Cozens, from Calgary.

It's difficult to say for certain that WinSport wouldn't be found responsible without knowing all the facts, he said.

"You can be negligent if somebody drowns in your swimming pool even if you didn't let them in, even though you had a fence around it," he said.

Lawyer Cozens noted that even if the company knew staff sneaked into the facility and did nothing to stop it, "that doesn't necessarily mean it's an invitation for all and sundry to break into the premises and use it."

WinSport President and CEO Roger Sloane responded to questioning from reporters on Saturday about how easy it is to access the sliding track, saying "robust security measures" are employed to keep people out. An investigation will ultimately reveal how the teenagers were able to gain entry, he added.

When asked about accounts from alleged former staff of a tradition of being reckless after hours and going down chutes, Heck said he had no knowledge of such instances.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
With regards to the lawsuit angle, I can guarantee that A) one will be filed and B) it will be successful. From what I can gather it didn't take a master B & E artist to gain access to the giant icy slide which means in the eyes of the court, C.O.P. didn't do nearly enough to secure the area. As such they will be held liable.

Even though these kids were trespassing, the property owner (C.O.P.) still has a duty of care (legally) to ensure the grounds are safe. It's viewed by the courts that something fun like a giant icy slide is going to lure kids onto the property so there must be higher than normal security. This is the same reason why you're supposed to fence off swimming pools in private yards.

There is a lot of case law on this and frankly I'm stunned that C.O.P. didn't have this covered off already. I'm guessing shit's going to change around there.

As for the kids and the families, it's a tragedy. I'm sure a lot of us could have easily met the same fate as teenagers considering the dumb shit we pulled. These boys simply weren't as lucky. R.I.P.
Maybe the outcome of any successful lawsuit is what needs to change, no ridiculous monetary amounts for the dead and injured - I refuse to call them victims because they weren't that.

Instead, just an order that Winsport upgrade and/or change it's security policies/processes/equipment in accordance with the findings of an independent review process and the outcome of all of this could set a new standard that other public facilities should follow.

I just think some precidence needs to be set with respect to victim restitution because the definition of what a victim is seriously has to be considered with respect to this incident.

[googe]

Originally posted by Hakkola


I haven't read the whole thread but it actually wasn't a gate which I've heard people saying, but a chain across the track at head height.

Oh man. THAT would have been an ugly scene. Whoever survived is going to have major PTSD unless they had a concussion so bad that they don't remember.

[Swank]

I heard the COD was decapitation, what a horrendous scene for family, friends, and emergency crews.

[rage2]

Yea, I heard the grim details from people that worked on the victims. So fucked.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
With regards to the lawsuit angle, I can guarantee that A) one will be filed and B) it will be successful. From what I can gather it didn't take a master B & E artist to gain access to the giant icy slide which means in the eyes of the court, C.O.P. didn't do nearly enough to secure the area. As such they will be held liable.

Even though these kids were trespassing, the property owner (C.O.P.) still has a duty of care (legally) to ensure the grounds are safe. It's viewed by the courts that something fun like a giant icy slide is going to lure kids onto the property so there must be higher than normal security. This is the same reason why you're supposed to fence off swimming pools in private yards.

There is a lot of case law on this and frankly I'm stunned that C.O.P. didn't have this covered off already. I'm guessing shit's going to change around there.

As for the kids and the families, it's a tragedy. I'm sure a lot of us could have easily met the same fate as teenagers considering the dumb shit we pulled. These boys simply weren't as lucky. R.I.P.

The problem is that there never seems to be limit with respect to how far a property owner has to go to ensure that people can't get into their facility after hours. Our community's outdoor pool has an eight foot fence surrounding it, video surveillance and yet people still trespass. They climb the fence, they manage to somehow get on top of the building and drop into the yard area from there and who knows what other ways and if someone drowns after hours or is injured, then there'll probably be a lawsuit.

So at what point are the in-place security measures enough? Our community's outdoor rink is completely unsecured, so if some 17 year old decides to climb the chain link fence atop the boards and then falls 9 or 10 feet face first onto the ice or pavement and breaks their neck, should the community association be held liable?

Should there not be some accountability on behalf of the parties that were doing something that is considered outside of the norm? Or is there even a norm any more, has the line moved with respect to what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviour?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2
Yea, I heard the grim details from people that worked on the victims. So fucked.

The fact that it takes 1 full day to ID the remains should be telling.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by killramos
It's weird to me that you still don't understand the difference between defending/celebrating stupidity and feeling bad for those who suffer extreme consequences of it. HiTempGuy I get. Dude's straight up retarded. But I -know- you're capable of calming your shit and comprehending the true nature of posts like mine and JRSC00LUDE's.

Originally posted by killramos
Alcoholism is a disease. Be careful of the implications this statement has.

[killramos]

Originally posted by Mibz
It's weird to me that you still don't understand the difference between defending/celebrating stupidity and feeling bad for those who suffer extreme consequences of it. HiTempGuy I get. Dude's straight up retarded. But I -know- you're capable of calming your shit and comprehending the true nature of posts like mine and JRSC00LUDE's.
Be careful of the implications this statement has.

I don't deny the tragedy of the experiences these events leave on those left behind.

What I have a problem with is the making of excuses for people who make poor life choices in order to exempt them from personal responsibility and the normalization of these kinds of decisions as OK, or kids will be kids, or boys will be boys.

I have a problem with the blind selfishness of people who do these sorts of things without the consideration of the consequences for others.

Whether people on here would/have done this or not themselves, i personally know it is not something I would do, I do not think there is much debate on that what these kids did was an extraordinarily bad decision and they just so happened to pay an extraordinary cost for their actions. That much is obvious.

I do not have sympathy for the dead kids no.

And I am angry on behalf of Winsport, The parents, their friends, their classmates, the whole city who is grieving for them. Those kids 30 seconds of fun is causing a world of pain. That is the real consequence of their action.

So that is the point of view that I am coming from when i make the statements about these incidents that I do.

And my statement about alcoholism is just an example of how I see people making it sound like when you are an addict hooked on an inherently addictive substance it isn't your fault. So how can we blame alcoholics for driving drunk?

I quit that other thread due to the abusiveness of many of the posters and the bandwagon jumping of people with nothing intelligent to say on the topic.

I have no intention of repeating the same in this thread, though i did want to present a response to your calling me out.

[Seth1968]

"You can be negligent if somebody drowns in your swimming pool even if you didn't let them in, even though you had a fence around it," he said.

I once considered putting in a backyard pool. Then I found out it had to be secured like Fort Knox, and I'd probably still be liable if some dumb ass jumped in and drowned.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Mibz
HiTempGuy I get. Dude's straight up retarded.

Naw, I just don't feel bad for people who purposefully harm themselves. Anyone who does is more accurately (like yourself) described as retarded :rofl: